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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:06:33 PM EDT
[#1]
9mm's are girlie boolits
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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:18:13 PM EDT
[#2]
I think it is beyond obvious that .40 cal Glocks are more problematic in terms of KB'ing than other Glocks chambered for different rounds. Otherwise, you'd be seeing a million threads from people talking about their Glock 17 or 19 blowing up in their face. Yet you don't see that. You see virtually zero complaints about 9mm Glocks. It is almost always the .40. To me, that indicates this goes beyond simple myth.
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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:29:26 PM EDT
[#3]
I shot hundreds of rounds through my issued Glock 22. Ammo was either JBT practice ammo (jacketed tip) or JBT street ammo (hollow points).
I have a Glock 27 which I've only shot practice ammo through it.The trigger feel seems heavier than the Glock 22. I've never used unjacketed tipped bullets or reloads through the gun. The only problems I've had are stove-piping spent rounds once in awhile. |
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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:32:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Isn't the problem that the case isn't fully supported by the chamber in the .40, which is why the problems are w/ the .40 and not other calibers?
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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:39:11 PM EDT
[#5]
I didn't really care until my friends blew up in his hand. That coupled with my friend who bought a 17, on my advice, and then had it fail repeatedly at the range. After that I have no faith in the brand.
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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:40:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you want to know more come to the Handguns subforum where the GD comedians and bullshitters don't go. Mine blew up in 1992. I've still got the letter from that miserable fuckstick, Paul J. Jannuzzo. welcome to the club.  3 digit SN 
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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:40:50 PM EDT
[#7]
All auto loaders are unsupported to some point in the chamber. Take the barrel out of a 1911 and drop a round in it. They have to be to feed the round up out of the mag. The 1st gen Glock .40 were really unsupported, part of fitting the 40 S&W into a weapon made for 9mm. I think this is where most of the KBs come from. I wonder how many of theses were 2nd or 3rd gen guns?
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Posted: 9/6/2010 6:51:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Years ago when Glock first offered the model 22 I bought one. I shot it a few times then traded it off for something else. I own a few other Glocks in 9mm and .45 and never had any problems with any of them. However, I have read all the kaboom horror stories and seen the pics of the carnage. Question is, are they warranted and based on fact or has the internet enabled the few stories to be blown out of proportion. ARFCOM IS the internet. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 3:35:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: YupQuoted: Quoted: Yup good 124 and 147gr 9mm hollow points are roughly as effective as the better 180gr .40 loadsI'll probably get flamed for this, but the .40 cartridge itself is a poor choice IMHO. It doesn't really do anything that a 9mm won't do pretty much as well. It was the answer to the question the FBI asked in the late 80's, which was how to get mid-level 10mm power in a 9mm-sized weapon. S&W and Glock both rushed models to market as soon as the 40 cartridge was introduced. All the .40 is is a 10mm chopped down, similar to the difference between 38 and 357 or 44 special and 44 magnum. The original Smith guns have long vanished from the market and the Glocks have seen several upgrades to improve their performance with .40, due to its being wildly popular in LE circles for whatever reasons. I have owned a G23 and shot factory ammo through it with no issues. I would not hesitate to buy a Glock if I wanted a .40, but to me, it's a caliber that does nothing my 9mm won't do more cheaply and reliably. I should add though that this was NOT the case in the late 80's. At that time 9mm loads were seriously lacking in stopping power. It would be unfair the 9mm vs .40 discussion not to state that up front. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 3:36:58 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 9/7/2010 3:37:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Honestly a .40 cal Glock model with a Lone Wolf barrel would be a fine self defense platform. I just would rather not have to spend an additional $125 on top of night sights to get a gun "go worthy"
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Posted: 9/7/2010 3:38:34 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 9/7/2010 3:52:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Most LE agencies that issue .40 isuue Glocks, thousands of them to include the FBI. If there were real issues they would not be doing so.
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Posted: 9/7/2010 4:04:55 AM EDT
[#14]
No reloads, no lead???
Sounds like an inferior product..... |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 4:34:06 AM EDT
[#15]
As of 2007 Glock sold 5 Million pistols. Most of these being 9x19 and .40.
65% (7,500+ PD's) of U.S. law enforcement use the Glock. The majority are .40. The FBI just ordered 2,963 more Glock 23's. The Glock is the most popular and heavily used .40 pistol on the planet. Numerous foreign LE agencies use .40 Glock's. Canada and Australia most notably. U.S. Special Forces use the Glock in .40. These are just something to note. Jul 16, 2010 9:27 am PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE NOTICE CAREFULLY AS IT CONSTITUTES THE ONLY NOTICE THAT WILL BE ISSUED. This is a combined synopsis/solicitation for commercial items prepared in accordance with the format in Subpart 12.6, as supplemented with additional information in this request. This announcement constitutes the only solicitation. This procurement is being conducted under Federal Acquisition Regulation Parts 12 and 13. The Federal Bureau of Investigation is issuing this acquisition as a Request for Quote (RFQ) under solicitation number RFQ 0200727. The NAICS Code for this requirement is 332994-Small Arms Manufacturing: The size standard for this requirement is 1000 employees. This requirement is a 100% small business set-aside. This requirement is for brand name only. The resultant contract will be a firm-fixed price contract. The requirement is for the following: Quantity Description 2,963 each Glock Model 23 pistol, with smooth trigger, extended slide stop, medium magazine catch, tritium sights, 6 magazines Shipping Condition: Shipping must be free on board (FOB) destination CONUS. Quotes shall include all shipping costs to Quantico, VA. Equipment Condition: New Equipment ONLY; No remanufactured or "gray market" items. All items must be covered by the manufacturer's warranty. Offer Period: Bid must be good for 30 calendar days after close of this posting. Delivery must be made within 70 days or less after receipt of order (ARO). Responses shall be submitted via electronic submission to Amy Lacy at [email protected]. The due date for responses to this RFQ is on or before July 23, 2010, 10:00 am (Eastern Time). Responses must be marked as follows: "RFQ 0200727." All correspondence regarding this requirement must be submitted to Amy Lacy via email only. Quotes shall include a point of contact, contractor DUN's number and TIN number. This RFQ incorporates the provisions and clauses that are in effect through Federal Acquisition Regulation Circular 2005-44. The provision at FAR Clause 52.212-1, Instructions to Offerors (Nov 2007) and addendum are incorporated into this solicitation. Addendum to 52.212-1, Modify: (b) Submission of offer(s) is to read as follows: "Submit offers electronically to [email protected]. Provision 52.212-2, Evaluation - Commercial Items is incorporated by reference. This requirement will be awarded to the low price technically acceptable (LPTA) offeror. Brand Name Justification: Glock weapons are the standard issued service pistol for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Provision 52.212-3 Offeror Representations and Certifications-Commercial Items is incorporated. Contractors may submit their online Representations and Certifications Application (ORCA) at the following government portal: http://orca.bpn.gov. Clauses 52.212-4 Contract Terms and Conditions-Commercial Items, and 52.212-5 Contract Terms and Conditions Required to Implement Statues or Executive Orders, Commercial Items, apply to this solicitation. The following additional clauses under FAR 52.212-5 are applicable: 5) 52.219-6, Notice of Total Small Business Set-Aside; 16) 52.222-3, Convict Labor; 17) 52.222-19, Child Labor; 18) 52.222-21, Prohibition of Segregated Facilities; 19) 52.222-26, Equal Opportunity; 20) 52.222-35, Equal Opportunity for Special Disabled Veterans; 21) 52.222-36, Affirmative Action for Workers with Disabilities; 22) 52.222-37, Employment Reports on Special Disabled Veterans; 23) 52.222-39, 29) 52.225-13, Restrictions on Certain Foreign Purchases; 34) Payment by Electronic Funds Transfer - Central Contractor Registration. The awardee shall be registered in the Central Contractor Registration Database. All quotes will be considered. Added: <input type="hidden" value="2010-07-20 09:05:49" name="dnf_class_values[procurement_notice][description][1][added_on]" />Jul 20, 2010 9:05 am ***************************************************************** Modification #1 See Questions/Answers below: (Q) In reference to the medium magazine catch, is this the magazine catch that the Bureau developed with Glock? (A) It is mid-way in length between a standard magazine catch and an extended magazine catch. (Q) Is there a specific format in which you would like to see this proposal? (A) The quote should contain the company name/address and POC information, DUNS #, Tax ID Number, description and/or stock numbers and pricing. If you wish to submit an SF 1449 that is accepted as well. (Q) In reference to your current solicitation for 2,963 Glock model 23 handguns, do you have the specific item number for the exact Glock handgun that you woule like to purchase? (A) The item number will be Pistol, Model: G23-.40 caliber. <label for="dnf_class_values_procurement_notice__office_address_">Contracting Office Address</label>: FBI Engineering Research Facility, FBI Academy Quantico, Virginia 22135 <label for="dnf_class_values_procurement_notice__place_of_performance_">Place of Performance</label>: FBI Academy Quantico, Virginia 22135 United States |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 4:35:05 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: No reloads, no lead??? Sounds like an inferior product..... Only in GD would Polygonal rifling be considered "inferior." |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 4:59:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
No reloads, no lead??? Sounds like an inferior product..... They say this because most people are too stupid to make their own ammunition, thus resulting in blowing up their handgun. And then these idiots go on the internet and BITCH about how inferior the gun is. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:04:57 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
No reloads, no lead??? Sounds like an inferior product..... They say this because most people are too stupid to make their own ammunition, thus resulting in blowing up their handgun. And then these idiots go on the internet and BITCH about how inferior the gun is. i have seen 2 40's kb over the years. none of them were using reloads. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:12:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
It's mostly internet and arfcom BS perpetrated my 1911 fans. ...and you're in a position to know this....how, exactly? The 40 Glock 22 is one of the most widely issued handguns in service with law enforcement agencies. Yes it is. It's also exhibited lots of problems over it's life. I'm sure an expert like you is fully aware of the issues the DOE had with .40 caliber Glocks when they first adopted the guns several years ago....or the problems that the Indiana State Police encountered with their .40 caliber Glocks a few years ago. I'm sure you're fully informed about the problems a department in the midwest has had with their .40 caliber Glocks and the legal action Glock pursued against them to keep it hush-hush....or the threats of lawsuits Glock Inc. is throwing around right now in some places. Everybody in life has a lane. You should stay in yours. The bottom line is this: .40 caliber Glocks, at least up until generation 4, have been more problematic overall than the 9mm Glocks. I've seen lots of problems with .40 caliber guns personally and I've heard reliable accounts of far more than that from lots of knowledgeable people. Some specimens work fine, others exhibit serious problems. There's no way for an end user to know which he's got until he buys/is issued one and starts to use it. The 9mm guns, at least up until generation 4, are a better gamble overall. EDIT ––- and as for kabooms, yes, .40 caliber Glocks have tended to kaboom more than some others, even with factory ammo. If you shoot a G22 through an absurd number of rounds and you don't do things like replace the recoil spring it eventually gets to the point where some guns can fire OOB. I know an instructor who has personally witnessed seven kabooms, all he believed to be the result of not properly maintaining the gun. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:15:00 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I think it is beyond obvious that .40 cal Glocks are more problematic in terms of KB'ing than other Glocks chambered for different rounds. Otherwise, you'd be seeing a million threads from people talking about their Glock 17 or 19 blowing up in their face. Yet you don't see that. You see virtually zero complaints about 9mm Glocks. It is almost always the .40. To me, that indicates this goes beyond simple myth. Agreed. While there may be tons of .40 Glocks in use today, there are also tons of 9mm Glocks in use as well - yet it seems that most instances of catastrophic failures are in the .40 models. Differences in base rate are NOT the explanation for the higher numbers of .40 model failures While I do like the 1911, I don't have a problem with polymer-framed guns (love my FNP45 for example), and I don't have a problem with Glock and I'd be perfectly happy to own one of their 9mm models. But if I wanted a pistol in .40 cal, I'd look at other manufacturers before Glock. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:17:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
U.S. Special Forces use the Glock in .40. At least one unit does...and they also had reliability issues with the pistols, at least for a while, especially with mounted lights. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:21:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Saw a G22 blow up at the Range when using Winchester white box. Guy required stiches.
All the info I have seen, is that it's limited to the .40 versions. I have had no issues with my G19. YMMV. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:27:42 AM EDT
[#23]
The instances are pretty few in proportion to the number of guns out there. I do think the Glock design doesn’t hold up as well to a KB as some other designs IF by some small chance you had a KB.
I run 9mm and .45 ACP Glocks and have had no issues, nor do I ever expect to have any issues. The .40 SW round has never done much for me so I don’t own any of them. Glock is a proven design and there is no handgun I would trust my life to more so than a Glock, at any price point. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:28:14 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Saw a G22 blow up at the Range when using Winchester white box. Guy required stiches. All the info I have seen, is that it's limited to the .40 versions. I have had no issues with my G19. YMMV. There was a rash of problems with the Glock 21 .45 a few years ago. I believe it stemmed from some Kb's in LA. I haven't seen or heard anything since. Simple answer: early .40s apparently had some issues supposedly with an "unsupported" chamber. I had two and never had a problem. I believe Glock worked that out because it seems the only ones that Kb now are with reloads or some other ammo-related issue. Simple solution- get a new one and follow the instruction manual and you shouldn't have any problems. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:28:22 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yup good 124 and 147gr 9mm hollow points are roughly as effective as the better 180gr .40 loads
I'll probably get flamed for this, but the .40 cartridge itself is a poor choice IMHO. It doesn't really do anything that a 9mm won't do pretty much as well. It was the answer to the question the FBI asked in the late 80's, which was how to get mid-level 10mm power in a 9mm-sized weapon. S&W and Glock both rushed models to market as soon as the 40 cartridge was introduced. All the .40 is is a 10mm chopped down, similar to the difference between 38 and 357 or 44 special and 44 magnum. The original Smith guns have long vanished from the market and the Glocks have seen several upgrades to improve their performance with .40, due to its being wildly popular in LE circles for whatever reasons. I have owned a G23 and shot factory ammo through it with no issues. I would not hesitate to buy a Glock if I wanted a .40, but to me, it's a caliber that does nothing my 9mm won't do more cheaply and reliably. Mostly true, except through auto glass. The best .40 loads are much more reliable at penetrating to 12" in gelatin after going through windshields than the best 9mm loads. If your agency shoots a lot of people in cars, that may be important. I'm not a cop and am confident enough in my 9mm girlie bullets. To the OP - most people never have trouble with their .40 S&W Glocks, but a lot more people have problems with them than have problems with 9mm Glocks. I wouldn't own one again (feeding problems). |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:32:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
There was a rash of problems with the Glock 21 .45 a few years ago. I believe it stemmed from some Kb's in LA. I haven't seen or heard anything since. There were some KBs, and there were also some issues with G21's that were failing to reset. (Dead trigger) I believe those issues have been sorted out now. LAPD issues 9mm Glocks currently. I don't know if they authorize .45 caliber Glocks anymore since the trigger bar thing. |
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Posted: 9/7/2010 5:44:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: There was a rash of problems with the Glock 21 .45 a few years ago. I believe it stemmed from some Kb's in LA. I haven't seen or heard anything since. There were some KBs, and there were also some issues with G21's that were failing to reset. (Dead trigger) I believe those issues have been sorted out now. LAPD issues 9mm Glocks currently. I don't know if they authorize .45 caliber Glocks anymore since the trigger bar thing. I talked to their Rangemaster and FI shortly after it happened. I'll see if I can find the email but I think you are correct about the dead trigger. IIRC they immediately stopped the G21 as an alternative. I don't know if it was ever reinstated. |
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