AR Precision Testing (Page 3 of 8)
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: I’ll see if any of my shooting buddies or forum members have one that I can use. I’ve just built 2 custom 6creeds and “may” have to purchase another 224VALKYRIE barrel, so it may be awhile before I would be willing to purchase another barrel for testing. I’ve still got several barrels left to go, but the weather hasn’t cooperated lately. Expensive endeavor to be sure. Would expect this to be a lengthy process to complete due to access to barrels /barrel purchase and build time. Great thread by the way!! 
I wonder if perhaps Criterion would offer up a loaner? 
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@SuperJlarge
Lol... “ammo whisperer”. As for the ammo... you are the one doing the work !! I am just sitting back and enjoying the progress. Thank You for all your effort ! |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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As for the LaRue barrel... IMHO, if it was brand new.. it will need a little more break-in time... if the leade is a little rough, at all.. I have seen barrels slowly shoot better.
Another thing to consider, If you are inclined, is to lap the upper receiver face flat. I have seen a noticeable difference in consistently better groups when I have done that. Lapping the upper face flat has never let me down. It didn't help all the ammo, but the improvements were certainly obvious. This link shows the improvement in a PSA PA65 upper with factory ammo. The barrel shot 5 different factory ammo's sub moa ( 5rd groups ) and then many more after the lapping and glue in. ( Please excuse the mess of a post, since it was a ongoing work in progress... and I tried to change the OP to a before and after pic post. Including all results ) https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/PSA-PA10-GenII-lower-w-PA-65-review-START-at-the-beginning-again-UPDATED-with-Tn-G-results-/301-285762/ |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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Originally Posted By JoeMal:
Which lapping tool did you use? @bfoosh06 This... best 30 bucks I have ever spent... and FWIW , the cheapo "Wheeler" brand is a poor fit ( as in I am not sure you are helping ) Be SURE to lube the PTG shank prior to use.. it fits tight. Full disclosure... my Large Frame AR's have heavy buffers, Tubbs Flatwire's and a Adj. GB.. so YMMV But the TnG has worked great for me. Buy some lapping compound from Brownells... and let the tool do the work.. ( don't muscle it ) http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/ar-tools/10318-ar-15-upper-receiver-lapping-tool.html The 3rd video shows what you are doing... ( watch them all.. great vids. ) I also do Loctite the barrel in, however.. I have never taken a barrel back out ... sooooo ) And as always.. YMMV. https://criterionbarrels.com/media/accurizing-the-ar-15-video-series/ Doing the TnG ( true and Glue ) did my profile pic and this as well to a PSA built FN CHF CL .308 upper as well...100yds, 10rds benched scoped etc.. Horn. AG 155gr HP 308 ( I don't always shoot this well.. Lol ) 
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
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I’ll evaluate lapping it. I believe I’ve used this upper before with good results. Part of why I want to put a new RA match in it to see what results I get.
I may do the barrel swap tonight, if I get recovered from the long day at the range. It was only bolt guns, but it was a fun time. My better half impressed the hell out of me. She went either 8 or 9 out of 10 on an IPSC plate at 1216yds. That is really stretching a 223, but was supper impressive in 8-11mph winds. Certainly blew my mind. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
I’ll evaluate lapping it. I believe I’ve used this upper before with good results. Part of why I want to put a new RA match in it to see what results I get. I may do the barrel swap tonight, if I get recovered from the long day at the range. It was only bolt guns, but it was a fun time. My better half impressed the hell out of me. She went either 8 or 9 out of 10 on an IPSC plate at 1216yds. That is really stretching a 223, but was supper impressive in 8-11mph winds. Certainly blew my mind. You got a keeper there @SuperJlarge Well done! |
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Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
The Hornady 75gr Steel Match gives great bang for your buck, IMHO. And impressive results from the Magtech, most 5.56 "Match" loaded ammo is just over 1 MOA . 
Luckily, the 5.56 Frontier 75gr does pretty well for a few cents more per round. ETA: I called Hornady and talked to a technician who confirmed it was discontinued. It's still in stock at a bunch of places online. |
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Originally Posted By JoeMal: OP are you looking for results from us as well or is this strictly for your findings? I’m certainly interested in seeing what others are getting for their results. The more data the better! That said, it would be important to ensure that the testing was done in the same fashion, I.e, distance, rest, number of shots per group. I just don’t want this thread to turn into another example of questionable information or cherry picked groups. |
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Originally Posted By wiseanhyzer:
I just realized that the Steel Match has been discontinued by Hornady. I had been waiting for it to come in stock at some of my preferred websites. Rifle I just put together for 2 gun matches likes it the best out of everything I tried.
Luckily, the 5.56 Frontier 75gr does pretty well for a few cents more per round. ETA: I called Hornady and talked to a technician who confirmed it was discontinued. It's still in stock at a bunch of places online. |
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Ballistic Advantage 18” 6.5 grendel from a few months back during load development. Hornady brass, 27.9-28.2gr IMR 8208xbr, Fed 205M primers and 123 Eld-M’s. One thing that I noticed was my suppressor began to loosen up during the course of fire which impacted the groups, which is also why I didn’t post these initially. I’ll retest this in the coming weeks as well as the 123 SMK’s to see if the results improve.
Note: From my experience, the SMK’s need about 1gr less of powder before hitting pressure signs as well as accuracy nodes. These loads are safe in my particular barrel. Use good reloading practices to safely work up a load for your barrel. 
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Ambitious goals, but here’s what I’m planning on for the weekend:
Ballistic Advantage 6.5 grendel Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Creedmoor (if time permits) X-caliber 6.5 grendel RA match 18” (new) Krieger 20” Daniel Defense 16” I’ve got close to 100rds of 6.5 grendel loaded up for the weekend and I’m planning on loading up some 223 to test alongside the factory ammo. I also picked up a Magnetospeed to start gathering some velocity data to include with the results. |
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Anxiously awaiting results. Looks like the weather might be missing you.
This is pretty much the only thread I come back to ARFcom for anymore. Especially since I'm no longer a team member and don't have access to babe of the day. 
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Ambitious goals, but here’s what I’m planning on for the weekend: Ballistic Advantage 6.5 grendel Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Creedmoor (if time permits) X-caliber 6.5 grendel RA match 18” (new) Krieger 20” Daniel Defense 16” I’ve got close to 100rds of 6.5 grendel loaded up for the weekend and I’m planning on loading up some 223 to test alongside the factory ammo. I also picked up a Magnetospeed to start gathering some velocity data to include with the results. Gotta do things, for me , ... tend to turn into a PITA , for me if things don't work out. ( Damned adult responsibilities things... Lol ) Thanks again for all your time and efforts ! |
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
TOGC,IADC
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man.
TOGC,IADC
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Originally Posted By Lennyo3034:
Anxiously awaiting results. Looks like the weather might be missing you. This is pretty much the only thread I come back to ARFcom for anymore. Especially since I'm no longer a team member and don't have access to babe of the day. Originally Posted By bfoosh06: We all appreciate your efforts... take as much time as needed, and try not to turn it in to a "gotta do" thing. Gotta do things, for me , ... tend to turn into a PITA , for me if things don't work out. ( Damned adult responsibilities things... Lol ) Thanks again for all your time and efforts ! In context of the thread, my girlfriend just got me some video editing software, so I hope to incorporate some videos of testing, matches and Mid/Long range shooting in the future. They’ll likely be boring, but I’ll see if I can make them entertaining to some degree. I’m also going to work on making the targets less cluttered (no foulers/sighters on the same target, single rifle per target, etc) and organize the results (page 1) to help with the ease of viewing. Hopefully this continues to be of value. I certainly enjoy performing the testing. If anyone has some pet loads for Sierra 55gr gamekings, please let me know. Going to try and test some light bullets, and those are all that I have currently. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: I’ll see if I can get my girlfriend to wear some yoga pants the next time we go out. Turn this thread into a two’fer. Yea, that’s the way it typically goes. Finding the time between being a dad and working to pay the bills sometimes leaves little room for hobbies. After a bad trip to Mexico in December, I took a step back from reloading and spent a lot more time in the evenings with my daughter and girlfriend/future step daughter. It’s amazing how automatic fire and 40mm grenades can help to re-align your perspective on what “needs to be done”. Its good to have a hobby though. A means to get away and distract yourself from certain memories. In context of the thread, my girlfriend just got me some video editing software, so I hope to incorporate some videos of testing, matches and Mid/Long range shooting in the future. They’ll likely be boring, but I’ll see if I can make them entertaining to some degree. I’m also going to work on making the targets less cluttered (no foulers/sighters on the same target, single rifle per target, etc) and organize the results (page 1) to help with the ease of viewing. Hopefully this continues to be of value. I certainly enjoy performing the testing. If anyone has some pet loads for Sierra 55gr gamekings, please let me know. Going to try and test some light bullets, and those are all that I have currently. The thread on the Hornady 55 gr. 55 Grain Hornady Here is also the thread with wide range of load info. Precision Load Recipe |
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A decent mic and script can add a lot of value to a video. Be sure to adjust volume levels. Hopefully the codecs play nice.
JLS, how'd you know I was looking at this thread right now? 
50-55gr class bullet: 25gr +/-0.5gr H4895, Varget, Benchmark, and IMR4064 should at least stitch. Expect mean radius of 0.3-0.5 MOA. |
Distinguished Rifleman #2223
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
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Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
A decent mic and script can add a lot of value to a video. Be sure to adjust volume levels. Hopefully the codecs play nice. JLS, how'd you know I was looking at this thread right now?
50-55gr class bullet: 25gr +/-0.5gr H4895, Varget, Benchmark, and IMR4064 should at least stitch. Expect mean radius of 0.3-0.5 MOA. Haha that was quite ironic. I figured you'd find this thread sooner or later. 
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Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
A decent mic and script can add a lot of value to a video. Be sure to adjust volume levels. Hopefully the codecs play nice. JLS, how'd you know I was looking at this thread right now?
50-55gr class bullet: 25gr +/-0.5gr H4895, Varget, Benchmark, and IMR4064 should at least stitch. Expect mean radius of 0.3-0.5 MOA. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Hopefully this continues to be of value. I certainly enjoy performing the testing. If anyone has some pet loads for Sierra 55gr gamekings, please let me know. Going to try and test some light bullets, and those are all that I have currently. Now, if you add yoga pants to the mix, I might have to nominate it for the BEST thread on arfcom. 
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"Have a smile for breakfast, you'll be shitting joy by lunch.” - Joe Abercrombie
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The Rainier Arms Match 18'' New you are testing... Is this the match or the ultra match version. I have been looking for an SPR Barrel and decided to give their Ultramatch a go after reading some really good things
Just wondering on the barrel you are testing MATCH or Ultramatch Over $100 difference in price. I am leaning towards the ultramatch because of 10% discount and was originally in that price range for a WOA i was looking at. Just saw the "match" version for $205 curious. I am guessing this has to be a Green Mountain blank considering the price point, but who knows |
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You ever have intentions of doing a lot, but then, nothing really gets done? Yeah, that’s kind of how this weekend went. The new Rainier Arms match barrel build is complete. These are the same components used for the 224Valkyrie build, sans the barrel and bolt. To my untrained eye, it looks like this barrel is showing some promise. Side note: I’ve noticed that some of my group consistency goes away when using a scope in a QD Mount (ADM Recon), so I may be going to traditional rings to see if the 16” match build will group better. It started out strong with the Magtech, but then the groups really opened up. Took a break, started back with ADI 69’s and the group started strong for 3 shots, but then started acting erratic. I’ve seen this with this mount before, so I think that’s the culprit. To date, this mount has only been used on the 16” Rainier Match barreled upper. I removed the scope to let someone borrow it for their rifle and may not have it adjusted where it needs to be for consistency. 
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
You ever have intentions of doing a lot, but then, nothing really gets done? Yeah, that’s kind of how this weekend went. The new Rainier Arms match barrel build is complete. These are the same components used for the 224Valkyrie build, sans the barrel and bolt. To my untrained eye, it looks like this barrel is showing some promise. Side note: I’ve noticed that some of my group consistency goes away when using a scope in a QD Mount (ADM Recon), so I may be going to traditional rings to see if the 16” match build will group better. It started out strong with the Magtech, but then the groups really opened up. Took a break, started back with ADI 69’s and the group started strong for 3 shots, but then started acting erratic. I’ve seen this with this mount before, so I think that’s the culprit. To date, this mount has only been used on the 16” Rainier Match barreled upper. I removed the scope to let someone borrow it for their rifle and may not have it adjusted where it needs to be for consistency. https://i.imgur.com/LEMiOxX.jpg https://i.imgur.com/XyUZj3d.jpg https://i.imgur.com/pUSzKW2.jpg Just to be safe I pulled it and put my 6-24 PST in a non-QD mount on the rifle. |
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Originally Posted By the_professional:
SuperJlarge, thanks for taking the time to out this all together! Is the 22" Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Creedmoor barrel the same used by Aero Precision? |
Gun control is like trying to eliminate drunk driving by making it illegal for sober people to own cars
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Originally Posted By JoeMal:
Yes. Aero owns Ballistic Advantage. Aero also owns the "VG6" line of muzzle devices Originally Posted By JoeMal:
Originally Posted By the_professional:
SuperJlarge, thanks for taking the time to out this all together! Is the 22" Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Creedmoor barrel the same used by Aero Precision? |
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Originally Posted By the_professional:
SuperJlarge, thanks for taking the time to out this all together! Is the 22" Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Creedmoor barrel the same used by Aero Precision? Let me know how those loads work out for you. I have limited experience with BA barrels, but the 6.5 creedmoors tend to shoot very well from my experience. |
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Originally Posted By SuperJlarge: Yup. Let me know how those loads work out for you. I have limited experience with BA barrels, but the 6.5 creedmoors tend to shoot very well from my experience. |
Gun control is like trying to eliminate drunk driving by making it illegal for sober people to own cars
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Originally Posted By JoeMal:
In the 6.5C testing you've been doing, are you using an HP bolt? I rolled the dice and didn't spend more for a JP HP bolt and am questioning if I should do it |
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I've got JP HP 308 bcg's in my other large frame ARs (6.5 CM and 308) and just recently finished my 2nd 6.5 CM AR. For this one, I used a nitride Brownells bcg and it is reportedly a small diameter firing pin (didn't check mine). It worked great when I test fired the rifle over the weekend. Best part is the bcg is on sale at Brownells currently. 078-102-004WB https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/bolt-parts/bolt-carrier-parts/bolt-carriers/308ar-bolt-carrier-group-nitride-mp-prod105380.aspx |
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After about 6 weekends of rain, it looks like I’ll get to head out some this weekend.
Also, I ordered a new 224VALKYRIE to test, but it will likely be a few weeks before it gets tested. Can’t wait to see what the White Oak can do. In the coming months, I also plan on chambering a bolt gun and an AR-15 barrel in 224Valkyrie for testing. |
| Not a great update; weather was perfect today, but I received notice that I had to prepare a presentation for tomorrow. So, with this delay, I plan on testing next weekend since the forecast looks good. With some luck, the 224VALKYRIE barrel will arrive and I can get 4-5 rifles tested. |
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Made it out, but didn’t get as much range time as I’d hoped. The 1.5 hr drive to the range turned into 5.5hrs due to wrecks and general ATL traffic.
18” Rainier Match 
Very impressed with the RA match. Aside from the one group that was fired after I switched rear bags, it did great with every 77gr load tested. For the 149$ (Iirc) that these were on sale for, they will likely be hard to beat IMO. I’ll be loading up some handloads to test this barrel over 25rds. 20” Krieger, 3500+rds 
This was the surprise of the day. Lenny provided me with some handloads to try, as well as the recipe so that I could load some as well, but the precision just wasn’t there. I’m guessing that the added round count has moved the throat a bit which will require adjusting the load slightly. From my previous testing, the TMK is a bit more sensitive to seating depth compared to the SMK version. Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Grendel 
Still having some issues with the suppressor coming loose during a string of fire, but there is some potential there with this barrel. I say that, but it likely will require handloads. This barrel did not shoot factory 123eld-m’s well when new. I’ll try to test them again on the next trip. I’ll also have some cured blue loctite on a few threads to help ensure that the suppressor doesn’t back off. I’m also going to try some different magazines to see if there is a pressure difference to the bolt carrier that is causing a POI shift on the last round as well as placing 6rds in the mag and only firing 5. All in all, not a great outting, likely due to the crazy drive time and the added stress/tension, but there’s always next weekend... |
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Yeah, I'm thinking that barrel is pretty toast. There was a reason I pulled it before match season, was hoping it had a little bit more left in it.
Is your WOA Valkyrie barrel a +2 gas? I just ordered a 22" Valkyrie barrel from Rainier's sale. Maybe a good time to do a comparison. |
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Originally Posted By Lennyo3034:
Yeah, I'm thinking that barrel is pretty toast. There was a reason I pulled it before match season, was hoping it had a little bit more left in it. Is your WOA Valkyrie barrel a +2 gas? I just ordered a 22" Valkyrie barrel from Rainier's sale. Maybe a good time to do a comparison. Definitely post up your results and I’ll be sure to share some load data. I’m still debating about grabbing one of them. I think a 24” slinging the 80’s would be stellar out to 1000+. |
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Originally Posted By Lennyo3034:
Agree on the 80s. The 80 ELDm has performed fantastically out of a .223 bolt gun at 2830. I've heard people getting 2900+ from them and that beats out the 88/90 at 2700 at most if not all ranges. Should have some load development done by early May so I can take the pair down to Arena Training and test them out at 1200+ and compare the effects of a 1:6.5 twist to a 1:7.5 twist on the BC of the projectiles. |
Ready for tomorrow...
80 eld, 95smk  95smk, 80eld, 75eld & 77smk comparison pic  I also grabbed some 52smk’s to pair with the 52 eld’s I grabbed a few weeks back. Not exactly what one person requested (53gr Vmax) to be tested in the DD barrel, but I think it could be used in his discipline. The short range precision is supposed to be great with these. |
Tested the Aluminum camo 16” DD, WOA 224VALKYRIE and a few groups with the 18” Rainier Match barrel. Definitely some work is needed on the reloading bench for the 224VALKYRIE and 16” DD for the 52smk’s, but there’s potential there.
Initial rounds down the barrel. 
The last rd seemed to go astray with the 224VALKYRIE. I’ll adjust the magazine feed lips to see if they are pushing the carrier in a weird way when the magazine is empty prior to the next trip. While not the bughole groups I’d love to have seen, there looks to be some potential in this barrel. *No velocity data for the top row. I knew they were going to be too slow for my usage. 
Additional load workup for the 224VALKYRIE, but man, that 18” RA match is a performer. I only shot it because I’ve been having trouble getting the ADM QD mount to maintain proper tension. Pulled it from the 16” RA match barreled upper that has been having issues with groups, and it required some force to get it mounted on the 18” upper. More than what I’d been using on the 16” gun, which was still a considerable amount. Despite what their marketing may say, you need to get them VERY tight. I think I’ll load up 30rds to try before long with the 18” RA match. I may need to video it....just in case it’s that consistent over 25rds. 
The 52smk’s were loaded using some previously sized brass of different sorted case years, mainly to get a general idea of where I needed to be with the charge weight. I expect these to be much better during the next outing. Still pretty happy with its initial performance. This rifle usually wears an EoTech and stays in the safe. |