Posted: 11/8/2011 4:02:40 PM EDT
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I'm looking for a good set of two ways to use this hunting season. We already have the Motorola 18 mile pieces of junk and they suck when it comes to hunting hilly terrain such as we have here in WV.
I'm looking at getting a set of the Standard Horizon HX370S radio's to help with this problem. I understand I can only use these in the 2 Watt mode without a license but I need something that will provide me a better signal. What I want to know is can I use these straight out-of-the-box or do I need to perform some additional programming that I have been reading about? Right now I'm not interested in getting a license but I may reconsider later. These will only be used for communicating with my brother if one of us gets a deer or gets injured. We normally talk to each other at noon on the other radios. Year before last I killed a deer and I was never able to raise him 400 yd's away. What do you guys recommend? It must be lightweight (small). I don't want to waste the money if 2 watts won't help. MOD's feel free to move this to another location if it doesn't belong here, but make it one with a lot of traffic. Thanks! |
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I'm not sure I follow you on the 2 watt thing. You can't use the marine band on land. But you can use MURS with no license, and all the power the radio will do. Just program the MURS channels and you're good to go.
Frequencies are here: MURS edit: and after reading the link I posted, I see MURS is limited to 2 watts. 
I'm sure someone here has the software for programming, and a source for a cheap cable. |
| antenna, antenna, antenna, and in case i didnt say it antenna. rule of thumb is 1 mile per watt, so in theory MURS running 2 watts would get you 2 miles in open terrain. trees, buildings and hills will effect that range. buy some cheap radios that can be user programmed such as the HX or any business/pro radio off ebay along with better antennas and the programming software and cable and your be GTG). as harry said, no marine freq's on land and no amateur gear on MURS. |
The Motorola radios you were using... I assume they were FRS/GMRS radios... What channels were you using? Because if you were using the GMRS frequencies (typically channels 1-7 and 15-22), then you were already transmitting at 5watts. If you were using 8-14, then you were using FRS at 1/2 watt. If you were using the GMRS frequencies, you were also breaking the law, as you need a GMRS license for those frequencies. 
But as a previous poster said, the antenna is the biggest problem you have, not necessarily the wattage. I have a 17' Diamond X510HD on my roof, and I can hit a friend on simplex at 0.3watts at a distance of almost 20 miles as the crow flies. I can also make it into a repeater that is 34 miles away on 5 watts reliably, and on 0.3 watts when conditions permit, all on 2m (VHF, 144MHz) But, carrying a 17' antenna to go hunting isn't practical.  However, making something like a rollable J-pole is, especially if you're tree-stand hunting. My rollable J made out of twin-lead is about 9oz, and before I got my 17' antenna, it was my primary antenna, and I could still do simplex to my friend at 20 miles, but it required 2 watts to do it.
The problem with FRS radios, is that, by FCC rules, you cannot modify the antenna. However, MURS does not have that limitation, and you can use external antennas on the radios. So, using 2watts and a rollable-J pole will probably get you into good range. And also, you don't necessarily need both radios to be using the rollable J-pole at the same time. If one of you wants to make the contact, have the guy calling erect the rollable J and make a call, and then you *may* be able to answer back with the rubber duck, and if not, you simply setup the rollable J-pole and call back. Whether you go HAM, MURS, or licensed GMRS, I'd swap the stock antenna for something like this: Diamond SRH77CA Rollable J-Pole My Google-Fu is lazy tonight; there is a nice graphic showing how to make the rollable J-pole based on the specific frequency you desire. You'll have to find that one, but the rollable J link I provided should give you a good idea what is required to make it. H. |
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The Motorola radios you were using... I assume they were FRS/GMRS radios... What channels were you using? Because if you were using the GMRS frequencies (typically channels 1-7 and 15-22), then you were already transmitting at 5watts. If you were using 8-14, then you were using FRS at 1/2 watt. If you were using the GMRS frequencies, you were also breaking the law, as you need a GMRS license for those frequencies.
But as a previous poster said, the antenna is the biggest problem you have, not necessarily the wattage. I have a 17' Diamond X510HD on my roof, and I can hit a friend on simplex at 0.3watts at a distance of almost 20 miles as the crow flies. I can also make it into a repeater that is 34 miles away on 5 watts reliably, and on 0.3 watts when conditions permit, all on 2m (VHF, 144MHz) But, carrying a 17' antenna to go hunting isn't practical. However, making something like a rollable J-pole is, especially if you're tree-stand hunting. My rollable J made out of twin-lead is about 9oz, and before I got my 17' antenna, it was my primary antenna, and I could still do simplex to my friend at 20 miles, but it required 2 watts to do it.
The problem with FRS radios, is that, by FCC rules, you cannot modify the antenna. However, MURS does not have that limitation, and you can use external antennas on the radios. So, using 2watts and a rollable-J pole will probably get you into good range. And also, you don't necessarily need both radios to be using the rollable J-pole at the same time. If one of you wants to make the contact, have the guy calling erect the rollable J and make a call, and then you *may* be able to answer back with the rubber duck, and if not, you simply setup the rollable J-pole and call back. Whether you go HAM, MURS, or licensed GMRS, I'd swap the stock antenna for something like this: Diamond SRH77CA Rollable J-Pole My Google-Fu is lazy tonight; there is a nice graphic showing how to make the rollable J-pole based on the specific frequency you desire. You'll have to find that one, but the rollable J link I provided should give you a good idea what is required to make it. H. 1-7 is perfectly legal to use at 1/2 watt |
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Get a couple of the HX370s and program them for the MURS frequencies at the legal 2 watts. You won't have any trouble talking much further than 400 yards in a rural setting.
DO NOT use marine frequencies for other than their legal use. Marine radios are getting a lot of illegal use nowadays for hunting and other purposes, but unlike many other kinds of illegal radio operation, illegal use of marine radios is extremely easy to detect and track... enforcement is happening, and the penalties are very steep ($10,000 per violation). The maximum you will find in a handheld is 5 watts, and the difference between 2 and 5 is not much. Connecting the radio to a vehicle mounted antenna would give you a substantial improvement in performance. If you got a GMRS license, you could run 5 watt handhelds and up to 50 watt mobile (vehicle) radios, even put up a repeater. Price on those options is likely more than what you are willing to pay. |
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Thank Guys for the replies!
What we have is the Motorola Talkabouts 9500T, .5/1.5W max. What I've pretty much settled on is these are crap for the terrain we are hunting. Good communication is where we are slacking in our preps. Long winter coming on so I have my homework cutout for me. |
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Good communication is where we are slacking in our preps. The best compromise between flexibility, utility, and cost is ham radio. Just like with self defense you can't just buy equipment and get plug and play results. But there's not much substitute for it either so it's worth pursuing. Glance through the tacked threads here, it will help you get your feet wet. You don't have to become a radio guru to have effective comms and in the event you really need it, it can be a huge advantage. |
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That is true, but a lot of those cheesy FRS/GMRS radios don't have power options to support setting 1/2 watt on those frequencies. The cheesy FRS/GMRS radios don't do more than 1/2 watt on any frequency, and rarely even that. Several years ago I saw a report where someone had dissected a few of the bubble pack radios and put them on a service monitor... I think the max transmit power was about 1/4 watt, some as little as 0.1W. Add in poor antennas and poor receiver sensitivity and you have poor comms. |
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Here are two threads loaded with info about the HX-370s.
You'll have to really hunt and be patient to find them for $90 right now. Lowest I've seen recently is $120ish. The software you'll need is called CE68. Somebody could probably hook you up with a copy. The programming cable is the same as for the Yeasu VX-7, FT-270 and most of their submersible models. Source for Marine VHF Radio reviews? UPDATE: Purchase Made 8-20-07 Attn Yaesu HT owners Standard Horizon HX370S $89.99! |
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rule of thumb is 1 mile per watt. this is bit too general to be of much value. ar-jedi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_2 The Voyager 2 spacecraft is an unmanned interplanetary space probe launched on August 20, 1977.
http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/weekly-reports/index.htm Distance from the Earth (Mi) 8,850,000,000 Round Trip Light Time (hh:mm:ss) 26:19:02 The spacecraft can transmit to Earth on two frequencies. During the long cruises between the planets, the lower frequency, known as S-band, will be used to send data to Earth at a relatively low rate. This is adequate for interplanetary science information, which can be received on the 26-metre antennae, releasing the larger antennae of the Deep Space Network for other uses. For the encounters with planets when a very large amount of data has to be transmitted, the higher frequency X-band is used. The X-band transmitter power outputs are 21 or 12 watts, whereas those of the S-band are 28, 20 or 10 watts. Both transmitters have a standby unit on board in case the primary fails. 
ps: it's about 305 million miles per watt. |
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rule of thumb is 1 mile per watt. this is bit too general to be of much value. ar-jedi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_2 The Voyager 2 spacecraft is an unmanned interplanetary space probe launched on August 20, 1977.
http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/weekly-reports/index.htm Distance from the Earth (Mi) 8,850,000,000 Round Trip Light Time (hh:mm:ss) 26:19:02 The spacecraft can transmit to Earth on two frequencies. During the long cruises between the planets, the lower frequency, known as S-band, will be used to send data to Earth at a relatively low rate. This is adequate for interplanetary science information, which can be received on the 26-metre antennae, releasing the larger antennae of the Deep Space Network for other uses. For the encounters with planets when a very large amount of data has to be transmitted, the higher frequency X-band is used. The X-band transmitter power outputs are 21 or 12 watts, whereas those of the S-band are 28, 20 or 10 watts. Both transmitters have a standby unit on board in case the primary fails. http://realworldnumbers.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/nasa-voyager-2-schematic.gif ps: it's about 305 million miles per watt. I didn't see it at the local Radio shack, where can I order one? Think I could rig a chimney mount??? Friggin' NASA geeks get all the cool toys. 
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rule of thumb is 1 mile per watt. this is bit too general to be of much value. ar-jedi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_2 The Voyager 2 spacecraft is an unmanned interplanetary space probe launched on August 20, 1977.
http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/weekly-reports/index.htm Distance from the Earth (Mi) 8,850,000,000 Round Trip Light Time (hh:mm:ss) 26:19:02 The spacecraft can transmit to Earth on two frequencies. During the long cruises between the planets, the lower frequency, known as S-band, will be used to send data to Earth at a relatively low rate. This is adequate for interplanetary science information, which can be received on the 26-metre antennae, releasing the larger antennae of the Deep Space Network for other uses. For the encounters with planets when a very large amount of data has to be transmitted, the higher frequency X-band is used. The X-band transmitter power outputs are 21 or 12 watts, whereas those of the S-band are 28, 20 or 10 watts. Both transmitters have a standby unit on board in case the primary fails. http://realworldnumbers.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/nasa-voyager-2-schematic.gif ps: it's about 305 million miles per watt. I didn't see it at the local Radio shack, where can I order one? Think I could rig a chimney mount??? Friggin' NASA geeks get all the cool toys.
Definitely not a roll-up j-pole on that one!
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We already have the Motorola 18 mile pieces of junk and they suck when it comes to hunting hilly terrain such as we have here in WV.
VHF / UHF simplex can be problematic in that kind of terrain. Vegetation will absorb some of your signal as well. You might have better luck if you arrange to call each other at fixed intervals from nearby hilltops. More antenna and more power can't hurt, but doesn't guarantee you can make a contact under all circumstances. |