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Posted: 9/10/2018 9:55:05 PM EDT
So I’ve been bitten by the accuracy/precision bug, but don’t currently own a centerfire bolt gun. I do have a 20” AR in .223 that I can shoot consistently at right under 1 MOA. I’m looking to step up to a bolt gun in 6.5 Creedmoor and hopefully knock that down to .5-.75 MOA. Is the RPR up to the task or should I just skip that step and start budgeting for a more serious build? This would be used pretty much for target shooting only. I have have regular access to 600 yards and hope to stretch out to at least a 1000 at some point in the future.
I realize building (or buying used) a “custom” gun will be a significantly larger investment. I’m unsure whether that investment will be wasted at my current skill/experience level or, alternately, if I’m going to be disappointed with the performance of the RPR and wishing I had gone the “buy once, cry once”route. Basically, I guess I’m asking if I can reasonably expect consistent .5-.75 MOA accuracy out of an RPR using handloads without throwing a ton of money at it. Advise on direction and even other chamberings welcome...I really don’t want to be shopping again in another year or two. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 10:11:31 PM EDT
[#1]
The RPR gets good reviews.
Lots of great factory options out there nowadays (remington excluded). Bergara, Tika, Howa will all do what you want. Run the bolt and try the trigger on a few. See what you like. I bought a custom action and then turned around and bought a complete MPA rifle. Didn't want to wait on getting a barrel and having it installed. I've been shooting a 6.5cm for a while, have the reloading gear for it, so it was an easy decision for me. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 10:18:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Both of my RPR's are easily in the under 1 moa range. The 6.5 Creedmoor seems to be a bit more accurate than my .223 Rem.
 
There's a couple of my load development targets for the 6.5 Creedmoor. 
There's some 70 and 73 gr Berger loads that it didn't like to well. 
There's my 75 gr Hornady Amax load. It's still the same with the 75 gr ELDM. |
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Posted: 9/10/2018 10:22:51 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rob78:
The RPR gets good reviews. Lots of great factory options out there nowadays (remington excluded). Bergara, Tika, Howa will all do what you want. Run the bolt and try the trigger on a few. See what you like. I bought a custom action and then turned around and bought a complete MPA rifle. Didn't want to wait on getting a barrel and having it installed. I've been shooting a 6.5cm for a while, have the reloading gear for it, so it was an easy decision for me. 
If you have the money to build like you want and have tried a couple of different actions and stock's I'd say go for it. But I would wait on a build until I fondled a couple of different stock and chasis designs. |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 6:30:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Custom guns are much nicer than off the shelf offerings, even though there are a lot of good off the shelf options that shoot really well these days. The biggest problem with putting together a custom is knowing exactly what you want. In the precision rifle world you can't just go to a gun store and handle everything and see what you like. Luckily most things can be changed out easily, but stocks/chassis, triggers, optics, barrel contour etc all come down to personal preference.
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Posted: 9/11/2018 7:53:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Thank you for the input. You guys bring up the very valid point of me not really knowing what I might want, being unfamiliar with a lot of the options available. Might be better get my legs under me before budgeting any serious money.
I have been eyeballing a Howa barreled action at Brownell's, maybe I'll go that direction. |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 8:55:12 AM EDT
[#6]
I would probably recommend the RPR. I have not shot one but it seems like a great platform with seemingly easy barrel upgrades.
Keep in mind, at long range, the importance of tiny groups lessens as the distance increases. Obviously if you are an expert that isn't 100% true but generally for a novice at over 500 yds you wouldn't see much benifit going from .9moa groups to .6moa groups. At 1000 the difference .9 and .6 is 1.5" in each direction. The vertical difference at 1000 on a good velocity ES of 25fps is about 6". Wind is good for about 7" left or right per 1mph. Point is small groups are good but don't get obsessed with them, there are other important factors as you go father out. For 2.5" plates at 500, yes you will need .5moa, for 20" plates at 1k .5moa isn't nearly as important. |
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Posted: 9/11/2018 5:57:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Thanks again for the input. Now leaning toward the RPR or maybe that Howa barreled action. I'll save the fancy high end stuff for down the road a bit when I have some clue of what I'm buying. I was kinda enamored with the idea of owning a high end bolt gun, but I'm not there yet.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Keep in mind, at long range, the importance of tiny groups lessens as the distance increases. Obviously if you are an expert that isn't 100% true but generally for a novice at over 500 yds you wouldn't see much benifit going from .9moa groups to .6moa groups. At 1000 the difference .9 and .6 is 1.5" in each direction. The vertical difference at 1000 on a good velocity ES of 25fps is about 6". Wind is good for about 7" left or right per 1mph. Point is small groups are good but don't get obsessed with them, there are other important factors as you go father out. For 2.5" plates at 500, yes you will need .5moa, for 20" plates at 1k .5moa isn't nearly as important. *For those that will comment that ammo good at 100 isn't necessarily good at longer ranges, I hand load and own a Labradar. I aim for 10 shot SD's in the single digits, so if my loads shoot at 100, they should shoot at 600 and beyond. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2018 8:53:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Those Masterpiece Arms bolt guns are real nice. Two guys at my range have them. If you have the money, take a serious look at them.
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Posted: 9/11/2018 10:05:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RKaz1:
Those Masterpiece Arms bolt guns are real nice. Two guys at my range have them. If you have the money, take a serious look at them. I've been overly impressed with it. More so than I thought I'd be. The barrel was the unknown quantity. It's turned out to be exceptional. I know they're Spencer barrels, but I didn't know how they'd be after being bought by MPA. It appears they've maintained the same standards. I dropped a PMII on it and started shooting knots with factory 140eldm. If I had a complaint, it might be the throat. They're chambered for the factory 140 eldm. That means I'm ~2.837 COAL to the lands with a 140eldm projectile and ~2.833 COAL with a 142SMK. Not a lot of seating depth to play with...at least not on a fresh barrel. I'll be right around 2.903 with a Berger 140 hybrid. If OP wants to drop the money, I can point him to a retailer that'll sell him one for $2,600. Heck of a deal for what you get. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2018 11:57:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Another idea is to buy a used custom. Snipershide has quite a few good rifles for pretty decent prices.
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KY, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2018 12:07:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Curt1521:
Another idea is to buy a used custom. Snipershide has quite a few good rifles for pretty decent prices. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 5:33:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Lots of good choices between the price of an RPR and custom. Take a look at the Tikka TacA1. If your just starting out, it will be a long time before you can out shoot this rifle.
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Posted: 9/12/2018 7:19:17 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rob78:
If OP wants to drop the money, I can point him to a retailer that'll sell him one for $2,600. Heck of a deal for what you get. I can pick up a Howa barreled action for $463 shipped from Brownells, I’m thinking that would be a good way to get collect some experience without spending a ton of money. Mounting it in a stock is within my skill set and I can deal with the internal mag until I decide to upgrade the bottom metal or move on to another gun. Down the road a bit when I know my ass from a hole in the ground I can start shopping for more serious equipment. Or just buy the RPR, LOL. Analysis paralysis. |
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Posted: 9/12/2018 10:21:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx:
I appreciate the offer, but I’ve come to the realization I’m too ignorant at this point to be dropping that kind of coin on a rifle. Before I spend that much I should know exactly what I want, and I currently have no idea when it come to bolt guns. I can pick up a Howa barreled action for $463 shipped from Brownells, I’m thinking that would be a good way to get collect some experience without spending a ton of money. Mounting it in a stock is within my skill set and I can deal with the internal mag until I decide to upgrade the bottom metal or move on to another gun. Down the road a bit when I know my ass from a hole in the ground I can start shopping for more serious equipment. Or just buy the RPR, LOL. Analysis paralysis. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx:
Originally Posted By rob78:
If OP wants to drop the money, I can point him to a retailer that'll sell him one for $2,600. Heck of a deal for what you get. I can pick up a Howa barreled action for $463 shipped from Brownells, I’m thinking that would be a good way to get collect some experience without spending a ton of money. Mounting it in a stock is within my skill set and I can deal with the internal mag until I decide to upgrade the bottom metal or move on to another gun. Down the road a bit when I know my ass from a hole in the ground I can start shopping for more serious equipment. Or just buy the RPR, LOL. Analysis paralysis. I've heard/read the positive stories with the RPR. I've seen and shot the Howa in 6.5cm. The Howa will allow you to change stocks or chassis. The RPR won't. There are prefit barrels for the RPR. The Howa would have to go to a gunsmith. The Howa can be had for about half the cost of an RPR, but the ruger comes in a chassis. Good luck. I really don't think you can go wrong with either of them. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/13/2018 3:11:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Tikka t3x ctr in 6.5 or a Tikka tac A1 in 6.5, or get both
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Posted: 9/13/2018 10:47:14 AM EDT
[#16]
I ordered the Howa last night. I figure I'll drop it in a KRG Bravo chassis, add a 20 MOA rail (do I want 30?) and I've got a bargain gun to learn on for under 1k to my door. I'll end up saving $200-$300 over the RPR and it'll give me a little bit of a project, which I like.
Question on the KRG chassis, am I going to need bottom new metal for that? The action I ordered has a hinged floor plate, that's not going to work with the Bravo, is it? If not, there goes my savings over the RPR, but I'll still have a project so I'll call it a wash. Thanks again for the input and guidance. |
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Posted: 9/13/2018 10:57:52 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx:
I ordered the Howa last night. I figure I'll drop it in a KRG Bravo chassis, add a 20 MOA rail (do I want 30?) and I've got a bargain gun to learn on for under 1k to my door. I'll end up saving $200-$300 over the RPR and it'll give me a little bit of a project, which I like. Question on the KRG chassis, am I going to need bottom new metal for that? The action I ordered has a hinged floor plate, that's not going to work with the Bravo, is it? If not, there goes my savings over the RPR, but I'll still have a project so I'll call it a wash. Thanks again for the input and guidance. |
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Posted: 9/13/2018 11:01:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Nice, thank you for the quick response.
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Posted: 9/16/2018 1:05:49 PM EDT
[#19]
The Brownells Howa deals look awesome, however when I begin to figure in a replacement trigger, a scope base, a chassis plus a stock with adjustable LOP and cheek height, I could buy an RPR for similar money.
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Posted: 9/16/2018 4:28:21 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm leaving the trigger alone for now, but with a new trigger, you're math ain't wrong.
As is I'll be almost exactly at a grand (tax, shipping, FFL) for the barreled action, KRG Bravo chassis and a 20 MOA Nightforce rail. Oh, and the magazines. Fuck me but AICS mags are spendy. I failed to check that before I ordered the other stuff, so that's another point in favor of the RPR, but I was unaware of it until after I made my choice. I have a spare set of Seekins rings here and I'll borrow the 6-24 1st gen PST off my long range AR until some decent glass is in the budget. I should be out breaking it in next weekend for around $1,150 total out of pocket. One other thing that tipped the scales a bit toward the Howa over the RPR is purely subjective, but I think the RPR is ugly as hell. I'm a function over form guy and it wouldn't have bugged me much if at all, but most other things being equal I'll take the better looking (to me) gun. In this case, that's the Howa in the KRG Bravo chassis. |
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Posted: 9/22/2018 9:29:00 AM EDT
[#21]
Ready to shoot.
 Attached FilePicked up 100 rounds of factory 140 grain ELD-Match, going to turn that into brass tomorrow. I also lucked into a couple pounds of H4350, so I can get to working up a load as soon as I get home with the empty brass. |
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Posted: 9/22/2018 10:20:24 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx:
Ready to shoot. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/461668/howa-679326.JPG Picked up 100 rounds of factory 140 grain ELD-Match, going to turn that into brass tomorrow. I also lucked into a couple pounds of H4350, so I can get to working up a load as soon as I get home with the empty brass. You can load long with the howa if you want to chase speed. That said, my brother had good luck with 140eldm over 41.6 h4350 in hornady brass and br-2 primers at just over saami length. |
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Posted: 9/22/2018 12:33:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Redbirdxx]
[#23]
Yeah, forgot to mention I have 200 140 grain ELD's sitting here as well. Plenty of BR-2's too, I use them in .308. From my reading it seems everyone ends up between 41 and 43 grains with the ELD's and H4350. I'm going to start at 39 just to be safe, but I'm betting I'll end up right where everyone else seems to.
Loading long is definitely something I'm going to at least experiment with. One of the reasons I dropped the extra money on the AICS mags is it gets me a few extra hundredths. Once I have some empty brass I'll modify a case to check length to the lands and go from there. |
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Posted: 9/22/2018 12:38:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: slappomatt]
[#24]
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Posted: 9/22/2018 3:46:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx:
Ready to shoot. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/461668/howa-679326.JPG Picked up 100 rounds of factory 140 grain ELD-Match, going to turn that into brass tomorrow. I also lucked into a couple pounds of H4350, so I can get to working up a load as soon as I get home with the empty brass. |
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Posted: 9/22/2018 4:12:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Won't know until tomorrow.
Plan is to take it to the 100 yard line to get it zeroed and get some chrono data. There's something scheduled on the 600 yard range at my club tomorrow but if it goes well at the 100 and whoever is using the 600 lets me sneak in, I might try to stretch it out a bit. |
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Posted: 9/23/2018 6:50:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Redbirdxx]
[#27]
Well, that was disappointing. Went out this morning, got to the range bright and early...without my rear bag. Or the tripod for my chrono. Or the sun shade for the scope, which it turns out I needed. I would have just dealt with any of those things singly, but all three? Fuck. So I make the 1.5 hour round trip home and arrive back at the range still bright, not so early. At least I didn't need the sun shade anymore.
Set up the chrono and start sending shots down range not all that concerned with precision or accuracy. Scope was within 2-3 inches after bore sighting it at home, a few clicks and I'm on. I do a rudimentary break in, shoot two, clean, shoot five, clean, shoot ten, clean, shoot 20, clean...accuracy is there but precision is not. It's a new barrel and it's going from clean to dirty and back again, I figure it'll settle down. Both my "precision" AR's shot pretty damn well right out of the gate, but I know that's not always the case. Not all that concerned yet. After 50 rounds of break in I get sick of cleaning and 2" groups and decide I'm going to clean the shit out of it one last time and send that last 50 rounds I have without fucking with it and hope it'll settle down. Nope. It got worse. It'd put three right on top of each other then drop one 2" low and right, then the next one is off to the left. Some groups just looked like a blind guy shooting a Mini 14, then it'd tighten up, then go to shit again. No rhyme or reason. Shot a total of 20 five shot groups and two of them were sub-MOA, and that was pure chance. Probably averaged somewhere around 2 to 2.5, I didn't even bother going to get the targets. Something has to be loose. Scope seems solid but next step it to break the whole thing down, clean the barrel until patches come out spotless and start over. That's a copy and paste from something I posted on another forum after getting home from the range. I've since gone over the gun and found nothing amiss other than this, input welcome there or here. |
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Posted: 9/24/2018 3:09:19 PM EDT
[#28]
You might try not cleaning it for 100 rounds or so and see if it tightens up.
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Posted: 9/24/2018 5:47:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Redbirdxx]
[#29]
That's the plan. Go over the whole gun, get the barrel squeaky clean, lose the brake, go shoot it and hope it settles down. Hopefully I'll have better news next weekend.
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Posted: 10/5/2018 9:33:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Got out again today. Improved but still crappy results with Factory Hornady ELD 140's and 147's. Glimmer of hope with FGMM Berger 130's.
 Attached FileThe high one in the top group is on me, not the ammo or gun. Not what I was hoping for from this gun but at least things are improving. Seems it doesn't like Horandy ELD's, which is unfortunate as I already have an OCW test loaded and ready to shoot and another 175 of them waiting for the results. Looks like I'll be shopping for different bullets tonight unless anyone here has input on a different direction. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 7:29:37 AM EDT
[#31]
I personally wouldn't give up on the 140eldms just yet. May just need some tweaking. Load it a little longer and check the jump distance.
I've seen the 142smk shoot well out of it loaded to 2.825 COAL over 42.9gr of RL16. The 140 Berger match hybrid also performed well, but I'll have to get the load data for you. I do know it was loaded long, like 2.9 or close to it. The 130 bergers look promising. It may be that the barrel likes that hybrid ogive. |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 10:29:36 AM EDT
[#32]
I have that OCW test loaded up and was planning on shooting it regardless...might find some accuracy in different charge weights and I don't feel like pulling them. I have the ELDs here, so I guess a little more experimenting would make sense before giving up on them.
Would you suggest playing with seating depth first? If so, where to even start on charge weight? |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 7:50:19 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx:
I have that OCW test loaded up and was planning on shooting it regardless...might find some accuracy in different charge weights and I don't feel like pulling them. I have the ELDs here, so I guess a little more experimenting would make sense before giving up on them. Would you suggest playing with seating depth first? If so, where to even start on charge weight? Hell, my brother was here yesterday while I did some case prep and I forgot to get the info for you. I'll try and get it today. Do you have a means to check your throat length? The hornady gauge maybe? |
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Posted: 10/7/2018 10:35:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Thanks for the input.
The rounds I already loaded are at 2.80. I don't currently have a way to check the throat with any precision, but in messing about with a case I modified myself I'm finding that something between 2.88 and 2.90 will put me on the lands with the ELDM's. I'm limited to 2.87 by the mag, so I'm thinking I'll start there with your recommended charge of 41.6 and work my way back in .01 increments. If I find something promising playing with the length, I'll redo the OCW test and attempt to tune via charge weight. If I don't, I'll shoot the OCW test as is and hope something comes together. I think at that point I'll either have a load or it will be time to start looking at the Bergers. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/7/2018 11:08:14 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx:
Thanks for the input. The rounds I already loaded are at 2.80. I don't currently have a way to check the throat with any precision, but in messing about with a case I modified myself I'm finding that something between 2.88 and 2.90 will put me on the lands with the ELDM's. I'm limited to 2.87 by the mag, so I'm thinking I'll start there with your recommended charge of 41.6 and work my way back in .01 increments. If I find something promising playing with the length, I'll redo the OCW test and attempt to tune via charge weight. If I don't, I'll shoot the OCW test as is and hope something comes together. I think at that point I'll either have a load or it will be time to start looking at the Bergers. Here is my load development target: 
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Posted: 10/13/2018 5:01:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Much better day today.
 Attached FileNo idea what the deal is with the flyers on the lower middle and right groups, they felt good when I let them go. Maybe some lingering weirdness from this barrel? I also screwed up and put one of the 42.5 rounds into the 42.1 group, but POI was very similar so I'm not going to sweat it too much. Other than that, much improved. I'm really not sure what changed, these were the OCW test I loaded at 2.80 before I ran into issue with factory loads. Maybe it just took forever (180 rounds) to settle down. I actually did play with seating depth first-  Attached FileThe 2.87 was the first group I shot today and is what I had been seeing consistently out of this gun previously. I'll admit my heart dropped a bit after that first group, seemed like it was going to be more of the same crap. But things improved from there and I decided to shoot the OCW test. I left the range a reasonably happy man with a plan going forward. Going to load to 2.84 and fine tune between 42.5 and 43.0. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 9:33:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx:
Much better day today. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/461668/eldm_h4350_ocw_jpg-703924.JPG No idea what the deal is with the flyers on the lower middle and right groups, they felt good when I let them go. Maybe some lingering weirdness from this barrel? I also screwed up and put one of the 42.5 rounds into the 42.1 group, but POI was very similar so I'm not going to sweat it too much. Other than that, much improved. I'm really not sure what changed, these were the OCW test I loaded at 2.80 before I ran into issue with factory loads. Maybe it just took forever (180 rounds) to settle down. I actually did play with seating depth first- https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/461668/140_eldm_depth_jpg-703927.JPG The 2.87 was the first group I shot today and is what I had been seeing consistently out of this gun previously. I'll admit my heart dropped a bit after that first group, seemed like it was going to be more of the same crap. But things improved from there and I decided to shoot the OCW test. I left the range a reasonably happy man with a plan going forward. Going to load to 2.84 and fine tune between 42.5 and 43.0. Glad you got it figured out. And yes, the barrel has to settle down. We just swapped trigger, rail, scope, chassis to a 26" barreled action for my brother. Break in produced nothing special. We're gonna give it another 80 rounds and then start load development. |
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Posted: 10/15/2018 10:17:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rob78: That 42.5 load's got to be over 2800. Looks like the upper node for your barrel.  Attached FileNot flirting with 2800 until 43.4 grains. Saw some very light ejector marks at 43.4, going to stay in the 42.5-43.0 range. Anyway, yeah, glad it came around. My experience is limited and has been entirely with autoloaders before now, never had one take so long to settle down. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 10/16/2018 10:42:32 AM EDT
[#39]
Look at the Bergara HMR or BMP for 950-1250 price range. I have had tremendous accuracy results with both of these.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 10/16/2018 3:46:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Compromise. Build a Ruger Precision Rifle!
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Posted: 10/16/2018 5:03:49 PM EDT
[#41]
I appreciate the input, guys, but I bought the Howa over a month ago and and now (hopefully) mostly done with load development.
Though I must say that is a sexy RPR. 
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TN, USA
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Posted: 10/16/2018 5:17:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx:
I appreciate the input, guys, but I bought the Howa over a month ago and and now (hopefully) mostly done with load development. Though I must say that is a sexy RPR. There are three answers to OP's question (in order of cost), and assuming you want a "standard" caliber, and are ambivalent to Chassis/stocks: 1) Ruger RPR - Fantastic Entry Gun. Low on Features, Accuracy very good. 2) Tikka T3 TAC-A1. Better Features, better rifle, better accuracy. Get a Timney 2-stage Trigger, and you're in heaven. 3) Sako TRG. I haven't experienced a rifle that has better accuracy or has a better trigger. Plus, it's light compared to the other guns. Downsides: Magazines are expensive, barrel is longer than it needs to be, and is threaded in euro-threads, and sometimes, you need to boost up the cheek piece. Blows the snot out of an AI, and for 1/2 the cost. It's not switch barrel, though. Unless you need something like a switch barrel, or just hate the feel of the TRG Chassis, for long range precision or Tactical, I don't think there's anything better than a TRG. |
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Posted: 10/16/2018 5:38:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRAD: I didn't encounter this thread until too late, but what I tell people is this (after having been all the way up the ladder to an AI AX, including an MRAD and Tikkas along the way): There are three answers to OP's question (in order of cost), and assuming you want a "standard" caliber, and are ambivalent to Chassis/stocks: 1) Ruger RPR - Fantastic Entry Gun. Low on Features, Accuracy very good. 2) Tikka T3 TAC-A1. Better Features, better rifle, better accuracy. Get a Timney 2-stage Trigger, and you're in heaven. 3) Sako TRG. I haven't experienced a rifle that has better accuracy or has a better trigger. Plus, it's light compared to the other guns. Downsides: Magazines are expensive, barrel is longer than it needs to be, and is threaded in euro-threads, and sometimes, you need to boost up the cheek piece. Blows the snot out of an AI, and for 1/2 the cost. It's not switch barrel, though. Unless you need something like a switch barrel, or just hate the feel of the TRG Chassis, for long range precision or Tactical, I don't think there's anything better than a TRG. Per example..this is my R-700 , built by Brian at Bartlein barrels, I am into this rifle 2500 for the initial build minus the optic, mount and bipod.. It is a LA 700 that has been squared, with a 28" Bartlein barrel spun on, chambered in 300rum, with a Trigger tech trigger and dropped into a MPA BA chassis....Even adding the bipod, Gen 2 razor scope, MPA mount, and 3(3.850") CIP mags still puts this gun under 6 grand worse case.. Heck MPA will sell you their entry level PRS rifle in several calibers for less then 2K and it meets all the rules..their decked out free for all custom rifles start at less then 3K in any caliber and carry a 3/8moa guarantee.....Don't get me wrong all the rifles you listed are nice rifles, but for 4500 plus dollars for a production rifle I think a person could build as good if not better and have it built 100% the way they want it from the get go... My build...  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/16/2018 10:20:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRAD:
I didn't encounter this thread until too late, but what I tell people is this (after having been all the way up the ladder to an AI AX, including an MRAD and Tikkas along the way): There are three answers to OP's question (in order of cost), and assuming you want a "standard" caliber, and are ambivalent to Chassis/stocks: 1) Ruger RPR - Fantastic Entry Gun. Low on Features, Accuracy very good. 2) Tikka T3 TAC-A1. Better Features, better rifle, better accuracy. Get a Timney 2-stage Trigger, and you're in heaven. 3) Sako TRG. I haven't experienced a rifle that has better accuracy or has a better trigger. Plus, it's light compared to the other guns. Downsides: Magazines are expensive, barrel is longer than it needs to be, and is threaded in euro-threads, and sometimes, you need to boost up the cheek piece. Blows the snot out of an AI, and for 1/2 the cost. It's not switch barrel, though. Unless you need something like a switch barrel, or just hate the feel of the TRG Chassis, for long range precision or Tactical, I don't think there's anything better than a TRG. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRAD:
Originally Posted By Redbirdxx:
I appreciate the input, guys, but I bought the Howa over a month ago and and now (hopefully) mostly done with load development. Though I must say that is a sexy RPR. There are three answers to OP's question (in order of cost), and assuming you want a "standard" caliber, and are ambivalent to Chassis/stocks: 1) Ruger RPR - Fantastic Entry Gun. Low on Features, Accuracy very good. 2) Tikka T3 TAC-A1. Better Features, better rifle, better accuracy. Get a Timney 2-stage Trigger, and you're in heaven. 3) Sako TRG. I haven't experienced a rifle that has better accuracy or has a better trigger. Plus, it's light compared to the other guns. Downsides: Magazines are expensive, barrel is longer than it needs to be, and is threaded in euro-threads, and sometimes, you need to boost up the cheek piece. Blows the snot out of an AI, and for 1/2 the cost. It's not switch barrel, though. Unless you need something like a switch barrel, or just hate the feel of the TRG Chassis, for long range precision or Tactical, I don't think there's anything better than a TRG. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 10/17/2018 12:04:54 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider:
Problem with the Sako is for that kind of money you can custom build as nice or nicer rifle.... Per example..this is my R-700 , built by Brian at Bartlein barrels, I am into this rifle 2500 for the initial build minus the optic, mount and bipod.. It is a LA 700 that has been squared, with a 28" Bartlein barrel spun on, chambered in 300rum, with a Trigger tech trigger and dropped into a MPA BA chassis....Even adding the bipod, Gen 2 razor scope, MPA mount, and 3(3.850") CIP mags still puts this gun under 6 grand worse case.. Heck MPA will sell you their entry level PRS rifle in several calibers for less then 2K and it meets all the rules..their decked out free for all custom rifles start at less then 3K in any caliber and carry a 3/8moa guarantee.....Don't get me wrong all the rifles you listed are nice rifles, but for 4500 plus dollars for a production rifle I think a person could build as good if not better and have it built 100% the way they want it from the get go... My build... https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/404934/fullsizeoutput_538_jpeg-707460.JPG A Sako TRG22 (Short Action - .308, 6.5CM and .260 are all offered) can be had for well under $3,000 Brand New, and if you try hard enough, you can even find a Sako TRG42 for about $3,000-$3,200. If someone is paying $4,500 for a TRG, they're doing something wrong. FWIW, I paid $3,700 (plus shipping) for my MRAD - brand new. It was a great deal. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 10/17/2018 12:10:46 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jlficken: The TRG-22 would be more comparable to the AI AT so it's really only about a $1000 difference between both guns with similar specs. 
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Posted: 10/17/2018 12:26:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Firestarter123]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRAD:
I take your point w/re to aluminum chassis/style. But, both the TRG and the AX are marketed as "military platforms" where the AT is primarily marketed as "for civilians and Law Enforcement." It could be just marketing, though. https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/2/8/4/0/4/9/webimg/1008597899_o.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MRAD:
Originally Posted By jlficken: The TRG-22 would be more comparable to the AI AT so it's really only about a $1000 difference between both guns with similar specs. https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/2/8/4/0/4/9/webimg/1008597899_o.jpg The AT is the former AW (Arctic Warfare) with a quick change barrel and a few other minor updates. The AW was the undisputed military sniper rifle for the last 20 years prior to the AX308 series release. The AW has been used by numerous militaries all over the world. The AE (Accuracy Enforcement) series was marketed towards LE and civilians. It had a round receiver that wasn't bonded to the chassis, used a different 2-position safety (until the MKIII adopted the AW safety), and used different magazines (the MKI used a special mag while the MKII/MKIII used AICS mags) compared to the AW series. The AW was originally was a $6-$7K dollar rifle. When the AT came out they lowered the price to $4Kish and dropped the AE line entirely. They also started marketing the AX308 series as the new flagship series and it took over the short action $6-$7K rifle spot with the AXMC taking over the magnum rifle spot at $8K. The AX308 came about because of the changing needs of the military which included adding IR lasers and Clip-on NV optics and it offered toolless adjustments. It was also wanted in the US market because rails are cool  The AX308 and the AT use the exact same action (and magazines) with the chassis being the only real difference. The AX308 also has a higher grade cut rifled barrel installed on it in the US versus the AT's standard Lothar Walthar button rifled barrel.
The TRG M10 would be the comparable rifle to the AX308 feature wise, however, the M10 costs quite a bit more IIRC. |
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Posted: 10/21/2018 3:59:02 PM EDT
[#48]
You guys are making me drool a bit with all the fancy hardware. I'd like to own something like that at some point, but I'm going to go though a barrel or two with the Howa to get myself sorted, then I'll look to something more serious.
And just for some closure for anyone following my little saga here, load development is done and now it's time to just go shoot the thing. 10 shots, 140 grain ELD-M, 42.7 H4350, CCI BR-2, 2.82 COAL-  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 6:27:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Redbirdxx:
You guys are making me drool a bit with all the fancy hardware. I'd like to own something like that at some point, but I'm going to go though a barrel or two with the Howa to get myself sorted, then I'll look to something more serious. And just for some closure for anyone following my little saga here, load development is done and now it's time to just go shoot the thing. 10 shots, 140 grain ELD-M, 42.7 H4350, CCI BR-2, 2.82 COAL- https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/461668/140_eldm_h4350_10_shots_jpg-712580.JPG |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 5:22:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sparkyD:
And the fruits of your labor have come to bear. Looks good now you just need to stretch it’s legs. |
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