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AR Precision Testing (Page 4 of 7)
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Link Posted: 4/2/2019 8:41:38 AM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Ready for tomorrow...

https://i.imgur.com/YzzoUsf.jpg

80 eld, 95smk
https://i.imgur.com/PBEwUbF.jpg

95smk, 80eld, 75eld & 77smk comparison pic
https://i.imgur.com/9CP418s.jpg

I also grabbed some 52smk’s to pair with the 52 eld’s I grabbed a few weeks back. Not exactly what one person requested (53gr Vmax) to be tested in the DD barrel, but I think it could be used in his discipline. The short range precision is supposed to be great with these.
View Quote
@SuperJlarge I may have missed it in the thread. Are you sorting your bullets by weight to get the most consistent shooters? Add that variable to your test bed.
Link Posted: 4/2/2019 8:53:39 AM EDT
[#2]
@JLS81

I don’t sort by weight. In my experience, there’s no need, and certainly not for 100yd groups to shoot sub half moa. Maybe if I was shooting sub .1moa groups it would be a worthwhile endeavor, but even then I’m not sure.
Link Posted: 4/2/2019 10:12:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 4/4/2019 10:57:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Had to swap rails between the two 224’s to account for the height of the SA gas block, but I’m digging the look.

Interesting observation; when measuring the distance to the lands, there was less than .004” difference.

Initial testing of the RA will be without a muzzle device, then I’ll test with the SAS TOMB brake to allow use of the SAS Reaper MX suppressor. Initial testing with the WOA barrel showed improvements when using a suppressor, but that could also be due to the bore getting fouled.



22” WOA rifle length gas w/ the 17.25” JP MKiii RC rail, and the 24” Rainier Arms Ultramatch +2 gas w/ the Seekins 15” MCSR v.2







Rainier wins on the better engraving...
Link Posted: 4/29/2019 8:42:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Post bronchitis bump. Breaking my rule, but I’ll put more rounds downrange with these before long.

Briefly went out to see how the Rainier Ultramatch would do before I hit 90 days from time of purchase. I forgot my Allen key for the SA gas block, but I was able to manually cycle and test two loads to get an idea of how the RA will perform. Both were very similar. Limited number of shots, but I’m optimistic and don’t think I’ll be sending this barrel back! I’ll be loading some of these to test at extended range in the coming month.


Also tested out the WOA 224VALKYRIE with a few loads before taking it out to steel at 500yds with factory Hornady 88’s. While they shoot decent, I think the factory 88’s would do much better if loaded 15-20 thou longer. The boxes that I have range from ~2.239-2.241. I may try to extend the COAL on a few to test this theory out.
Link Posted: 5/9/2019 6:42:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Such a great thread.
Link Posted: 5/19/2019 7:06:14 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USMC_JA:
Such a great thread.
View Quote
Thanks man. I haven’t had a chance to shoot much for the thread lately. I was sick for over 3 weeks with bronchitis and I’ve been trying to play catch-up at work. I’m hoping that after I close on my house at the end of the month I’ll be able to join a range that isn’t 1.5hrs away so that I can venture out to shoot more often.
Link Posted: 5/19/2019 7:19:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Brief testing of the 224’s from yesterday. The range trip was primarily to test a few loads with my 6 creedmoor and 105 bergers for a match next weekend, so there wasn’t much time for the gas guns. I only shot 1 group with the WOA before handing it off to my girlfriend and the RO’s so that they could try it out. The RO’s got a few groups with the AE 75gr ammo that were around .8-1.0 moa. No pictures, but they were surprisingly good groups. My group was ridiculously good, but I would not expect that from 10$ a box ammo consistently.



Next was testing a few loads with the 24” Rainier Ultramatch. I made some adjustments to the gas system since the last outing and it ran perfect. All groups were under moa and it started to group better once I pushed it harder. Normally I don’t include load data, but since it’s a newer cartridge, I decided to include it on my target picture.

NOTE: These loads work in my rifle. As always, work up loads in your rifle following safe reloading practices.

Link Posted: 5/21/2019 4:34:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA] [#9]
You continue to demonstrate excellent shooting.

Again, thanks in no small part to you (my wallet curses you), I got distracted from my JP and built up a 556 SPR:

CLE turned and installed Bartlein 17.9 SPR 1:7.7, CLE Chamber on a Vltor Upper
Mk16 rail
Noveske Gen III lower  
HSNM G trigger (I DIG this trigger for a precision AR.  It is flat out awesome sauce.)
A5 RE

First range trip was rushed with barrel break-in and setting up the gas but she shows some promise.  Easy 3/4 MOA 5-shot groups with factory ammo.  Less than 30 rounds in the log book.


Link Posted: 5/22/2019 8:42:50 AM EDT
[#10]
@USMC_JA

Thanks for the kind words and congrats on the sharp build!

Check out Global Ordnance if you’re looking for some ammo to try. They are a site sponsor/vendor and currently have a special going with ADI 69gr 223 ammo. Probably not ideal for longer range, but it’s good stuff for 100-300yd shooting.
Link Posted: 5/22/2019 3:58:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA] [#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
@USMC_JA

Thanks for the kind words and congrats on the sharp build!

Check out Global Ordnance if you’re looking for some ammo to try. They are a site sponsor/vendor and currently have a special going with ADI 69gr 223 ammo. Probably not ideal for longer range, but it’s good stuff for 100-300yd shooting.
View Quote
Thanks for the tip.  I've been eyeing their BOGO sale.   Shipping costs have made me hesitate.   Brownells keeps running 10%/free shipping coupons that I'm a sucker for.

ETA:  I bought some anyway.
Link Posted: 5/22/2019 4:02:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC_JA] [#12]
Double post
Link Posted: 5/24/2019 2:25:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Maybe I missed it, but have you tested the X-Caliber barrel yet?
Link Posted: 5/24/2019 4:27:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alpha0815:
Maybe I missed it, but have you tested the X-Caliber barrel yet?
View Quote
Not formally, but it will be up soon. I’m also going to try and borrow a friends 6.5 creed X-caliber.
Link Posted: 5/27/2019 1:57:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:

Not formally, but it will be up soon. I’m also going to try and borrow a friends 6.5 creed X-caliber.
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Looking forward to the Grendel review. Trying to decide between the X-Caliber and Criterion
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 6:58:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Don't want to start my own thread, so hope this follow up post to the one above is ok, SuperJ.

The Bartlein barrel on my SPR clearly started to settle in between rounds 50 and 70.   The last two groups of the day (rounds 80-90) were with the same ammo as the previous post (Black Hills 75 gr).  Groups are headed towards .5 MOA.  I need to learn to be a better shooter...I see one hole groups and I inevitably fuck one up.

BTW....First box of the 69gr Aussie stuff was uninspiring.  .75-1MOA.  But I've got another box to try.





Link Posted: 6/1/2019 7:16:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Awesome shooting! Bartlein barrels are stellar! I run them exclusively on my bolt match rifles.

Is the flier the first or last round fired? There may be some factors other than the trigger puller at play since it’s present in both groups.

Can you measure the BTO on the BH 75gr load?
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 10:25:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Awesome shooting! Bartlein barrels are stellar! I run them exclusively on my bolt match rifles.

Is the flier the first or last round fired? There may be some factors other than the trigger puller at play since it’s present in both groups.

Can you measure the BTO on the BH 75gr load?
View Quote
Thanks, Bud.

The "flier" was round 4 in each of the above two groups.  I saw a 3-shot clover leaf, got excited, and yanked the shot.  After I saw that I screwed up the group, round 5 was much easier.  No anxiety.  They were both me...zero doubt about it.  I knew I yanked them the second I let the round go.  I packed up my stuff after those rounds.  So, next trip out, we will see if I can do better.

This rifle/barrel is already feeling more accurate than the JP I've posted before.  And the suppressor doesn't both it one bit.  So, that makes me happy.

I did my best to measure the BTO of the BH 75 grain load.  I THINK I did it correctly.  If not, I'm happy to try again. (It is hard to tell from the picture, but I am attempting to measure to the ogive and not simply to the end of the case.)

Link Posted: 6/2/2019 9:01:39 PM EDT
[#19]
69gr smk
18” Odin Works DMR
100 yards bipod prone

CFE223


RL15
Link Posted: 6/4/2019 11:03:04 PM EDT
[#20]
@USMC_JA

Thanks for the info. I’d still recommend getting a comparator kit for gaining accuracy.

Hornady Comparator Kit
Link Posted: 6/4/2019 11:14:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Glad some of you are getting to shoot. I’m still trying to get my new “office” in order following a move.

Still waiting on some SS pegboards, shelving and hauling the remaining items in, but it’s a start. Hopefully I’ll be ready to load and shoot by next weekend.
Link Posted: 6/5/2019 10:33:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
@USMC_JA

Thanks for the info. I’d still recommend getting a comparator kit for gaining accuracy.

Hornady Comparator Kit
View Quote
In other words, "that measurement you took doesn't tell me shit, but thanks for trying."  

Cool piece of gear.  Appreciate the tip.  I'll pick one up.
Link Posted: 6/5/2019 11:07:34 AM EDT
[#23]
One step closer...

Link Posted: 6/5/2019 11:10:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USMC_JA:

In other words, "that measurement you took doesn't tell me shit, but thanks for trying."  

Cool piece of gear.  Appreciate the tip.  I'll pick one up.
View Quote
Lol.

It’ll help you in the long run. The meplats on most BTHP or polymer tips aren’t uniform, so you’ll see far more variance with them within a lot of bullets than you will typically see with the ogives.
Link Posted: 6/23/2019 7:03:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
The DD is a 16" carbine?

From it, I'd like to see the performance of-

Factory ammo:
Hornady 75gr Match

Handloads:
75/77gr BTHP over 24 - 24.5gr Varget.
50/53gr VMAX over 25 - 25.5gr Varget.

The 53g VMAX is slick; might need to jump another 0.020" at 2.23-2.24" OAL if the ogive allows.
View Quote
I’ve been extremely busy at work and decided to add moving into the equation, but I grabbed some 53 Vmax’s today. I hope to test them and the 52smk’s in the next few weeks. I have 40ish rounds of 75/77’s loaded up for the DD barrel too.

I also grabbed some of the new FGMM 90gr rounds to try out in the 2 Valkyrie barrels.
Link Posted: 6/30/2019 9:24:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#26]
A tale of two twists.....new FGMM 90’s

Rushed the top group from the WOA. 10rd strings in 2 minutes to mitigate mirage.

The edges on the “fliers” from the 1:7.5 twist tell the second part of the story.



Link Posted: 8/21/2019 9:21:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#27]
Between a crazy work schedule, building a few bolt guns and getting the kids ready for the school year, range time has been limited. The few times I have been out have been to get rifles zeroed or to attend a local match.

I ran the WOA 224Valkyrie in a local precision match over the weekend with the FGMM, and while it didn’t win the match, it did get the highest score on the 515yd stage engaging a 2” vertical ruler, 6” square, diamond and then the coyote with 3 shots on each. The first shot on the ruler missed by approximately an inch to the left. I made the wind correction by holding right edge and drilled it for the next two shots and cleaned the remaining targets.

The FGMM has decent velocity and relatively low std. deviation for factory ammo. Combine that with the precision that it yields, and the 224Valkyrie is doing what I had envisioned. A soft recoiling semi-auto precision rifle that can perform well with off the shelf ammo. Hopefully it does well with the Berger 80.5 fullbore factory ammo as well, I just haven’t found any available for purchase yet.




Edit: the home chambered 6creed didn’t belong here. I’ll post it’s try at a 5x5 later this month.
Link Posted: 8/21/2019 11:25:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
One step closer...

https://i.imgur.com/86VI7zA.jpg
View Quote
Definitely coveting your reloading space. As my kids have gotten older “my” space has all but disappeared.
Link Posted: 8/21/2019 11:28:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Between a crazy work schedule, building a few bolt guns and getting the kids ready for the school year, range time has been limited. The few times I have been out have been to get rifles zeroed or to attend a local match.

I ran the WOA 224Valkyrie in a local precision match over the weekend with the FGMM, and while it didn’t win the match, it did get the highest score on the 515yd stage engaging a 2” vertical ruler, 6” square, diamond and then the coyote with 3 shots on each. The first shot on the ruler missed by approximately an inch to the left. I made the wind correction by holding right edge and drilled it for the next two shots and cleaned the remaining targets.

The FGMM has decent velocity and relatively low std. deviation for factory ammo. Combine that with the precision that it yields, and the 224Valkyrie is doing what I had envisioned. A soft recoiling semi-auto precision rifle that can perform well with off the shelf ammo. Hopefully it does well with the Berger 80.5 fullbore factory ammo as well, I just haven’t found any available for purchase yet.

https://i.imgur.com/Xuj4VW1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/V7k6V9W.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qhUXXLD.jpg
View Quote
This is enough to tempt my to try the 224. Good shooting...
Link Posted: 8/22/2019 1:06:50 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpeyRod:
This is enough to tempt my to try the 224. Good shooting...
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpeyRod:
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Between a crazy work schedule, building a few bolt guns and getting the kids ready for the school year, range time has been limited. The few times I have been out have been to get rifles zeroed or to attend a local match.

I ran the WOA 224Valkyrie in a local precision match over the weekend with the FGMM, and while it didn’t win the match, it did get the highest score on the 515yd stage engaging a 2” vertical ruler, 6” square, diamond and then the coyote with 3 shots on each. The first shot on the ruler missed by approximately an inch to the left. I made the wind correction by holding right edge and drilled it for the next two shots and cleaned the remaining targets.

The FGMM has decent velocity and relatively low std. deviation for factory ammo. Combine that with the precision that it yields, and the 224Valkyrie is doing what I had envisioned. A soft recoiling semi-auto precision rifle that can perform well with off the shelf ammo. Hopefully it does well with the Berger 80.5 fullbore factory ammo as well, I just haven’t found any available for purchase yet.

https://i.imgur.com/Xuj4VW1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/V7k6V9W.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qhUXXLD.jpg
This is enough to tempt my to try the 224. Good shooting...
Yeah I'm kinda tempted now.
Link Posted: 9/21/2019 9:59:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 50ttop] [#31]
I’ve got a couple .308 uppers I’m going to loan to the cause next weekend. One has a 20” Fulton Armory M110 barrel and the other has a 16” Bergara barrel that I picked up to try for $100.
Link Posted: 9/23/2019 10:51:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 50ttop:
I’ve got a couple .308 uppers I’m going to loan to the cause next weekend. One has a 20” Fulton Armory M110 barrel and the other has a 16” Bergara barrel that I picked up to try for $100.
View Quote
Thanks bud! I’ve got a bunch of 6.5grendel loads worked up that you’re welcome to try in your Howa mini, as well as brass and projectiles.

It may be awhile before I get to run them, as I have a medical procedure that may leave me home bound for 4-6weeks.

Getting old sucks!
Link Posted: 9/23/2019 11:26:57 PM EDT
[#33]
No rush, I’ve got several other projects on the table at this time anyway
Link Posted: 9/24/2019 2:51:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:

Thanks bud! I’ve got a bunch of 6.5grendel loads worked up that you’re welcome to try in your Howa mini, as well as brass and projectiles.

It may be awhile before I get to run them, as I have a medical procedure that may leave me home bound for 4-6weeks.

Getting old sucks!
View Quote
You have my prayers for a speedy recovery.
Link Posted: 9/30/2019 12:41:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TXBO:

You have my prayers for a speedy recovery.
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Thank you sir. I greatly appreciate that.
Link Posted: 9/30/2019 12:47:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Special thanks to @50ttop. He’s supplied me with two quality uppers to try as well as some ammo to assist with testing. Hopefully I’ll get to try them out soon, as well as a few others. I didn’t even fire my AR’s at the GAHTF moa shoot this past weekend, but the host of the event did get moa or better with the WOA barreled 224Valkyrie and FGMM.

I’ve been slack, but this thread should pick up soon now that the risk of a heat stroke will be going down in the next month or so.
Link Posted: 9/30/2019 8:52:41 PM EDT
[#37]
If you need any more .308 Ammo I’ll see what I can swing
Link Posted: 10/1/2019 9:04:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Well I guess since you have a large frame, if you want a .260 to test me me know.  I owe, I owe...
Link Posted: 10/2/2019 9:59:33 PM EDT
[#39]
I didn’t shoot my gassers, but I let @gahunter95 try out the 224Valkyrie. He managed .80moa without ever shooting it or taking warm up shots.
Based on the groups after the first strings, I think the can loosened up during a cooling cycle, but it was still good shooting.

22” WOA, FGMM 90gr

Link Posted: 10/6/2019 9:59:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
I didn’t shoot my gassers, but I let @gahunter95 try out the 224Valkyrie. He managed .80moa without ever shooting it or taking warm up shots.
Based on the groups after the first strings, I think the can loosened up during a cooling cycle, but it was still good shooting.

22” WOA, FGMM 90gr

https://i.imgur.com/VVL2cOX.jpg
View Quote
Thanks for the loaner rifle, ammo and coaching.

I shot that target in about 5 mins.  That rifle is capable of much more!  I need to practice more.
Link Posted: 10/6/2019 10:47:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Well I guess since you have a large frame, if you want a .260 to test me me know.  I owe, I owe...
View Quote
I may take you up on that. We’d need to meet up or I’ll need to get a LaRue lower to get the proper fitment. Damn those large frames!!
Link Posted: 10/9/2019 10:53:32 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:

I may take you up on that. We’d need to meet up or I’ll need to get a LaRue lower to get the proper fitment. Damn those large frames!!
View Quote
That works. I’ve got spare barrels too so either way.
Link Posted: 10/15/2019 11:18:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#43]
Boredom has set in. I decided to take some measurements of the factory ammo that I’ve been testing, which potentially could be beneficial for reloaders. Listed values are the average BTO from 5 random samples. I don’t measure overall length for my purposes due to significant variation with meplats, but I can get that data if it’s helpful.

223
Hornady 75gr HPBT
1.8345” BTO

Hornady Black 75gr HPBT
1.8545” BTO

Lot#2
1.8430 BTO

Both lots range between 2.251-2.255 COAL

Black Hills Remanufactured (blue box) 75gr HPBT
1.8490” BTO

Hornady Steel Match 75gr HPBT
1.8705” BTO

FGMM 77gr SMK
1.8710” BTO

Magtech 77gr SMK
1.8570” BTO

ADI 69gr SMK
1.8505” BTO

224 Valkyrie

Hornady Black 75gr HPBT
1.6750” BTO

Federal AE 75gr TMJ
1.7210” BTO

Hornady Match 88gr ELD-M
1.6805” BTO

FGMM 90gr SMK
1.7345” BTO

Edit: Began loading some 75’s to test and noticed my Hornady Black copies were at 2.271 COAL based on trying to copy the BTO measurements from the box that I previously measured. I grabbed a second box and noticed a significant difference in the BTO measurement, but the overall COAL was very similar. While I measure all of my loads based on BTO, it’s important when working with a new bullet or lot to ensure they will fit in a magazine if that’s their intended purpose.
Link Posted: 10/22/2019 9:33:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Looking forward to testing the .308 uppers that 50ttop provided. One is a Fulton Armory (M110?) and the other is a Bergara. Both barrels feature a 1:10 twist. This is my first time using either of these rails, but at first glance, they are very solid.





He also graciously supplied me with some FGMM for testing the .308 barrels as well as some BH blue box 223 ammo.

Link Posted: 10/22/2019 9:57:37 PM EDT
[#45]
In addition to the .308’s, I plan on taking the 6.5 creed and 224 Valkyrie out for some complete testing. Since the RA barrel is a 1:7.5 twist (224Valkyrie), handloads are pretty much required for my intended use. Since I was loading for it, I decided to load some 223 and 6.5 creed rounds to have at the ready for testing.

Rounds are loaded, just need to find the time to test.

224Valkyrie
80 eld-m’s and 95smk’s (White Oak Barrel)


6.5 creedmoor
140 eld
130 Berger OTM AR hybrid
H4350
Hornady Brass
Fed210


223/5.56
77smk
73 eld
69smk
77 tmk (sparse)


75gr hpbt



These will be using 1x fired LC-09. This brass was purchased pre-prepped/sized. One of the downsides to this is that they will vary in the base to shoulder. From my experience, this can cause significant issues with overall precision, especially if mixed among a five shot group. Based on this, the cases were sorted based on 2 thou variance. I expect the shorter cases will not yield the greatest precision, but it will be interesting to test. I typically size my cases for a base to shoulder measurement of 1.452”.
Link Posted: 10/23/2019 2:45:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Nice!

Get to work Large.
Link Posted: 10/27/2019 11:17:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#47]
Trying to....

Received some of the new Berger 85.5gr hybrids for testing in the 224Valkyries. If I can find a node above 2850fps, these should equal the 80 eld’s (@2980fps) in wind deflection at extended range. Above 2900fps it begins to edge out the 80gr eld’s for wind deflection and longer supersonic range. Based on weight difference and bearing surface, I think 2875-2915fps should be attainable...but, will the precision be there? That’s the big question.

I also grabbed some JB bore paste at the recommendation of @bfoosh06 to try and improve on the results of the BCA barrel that I tested previously. Hopefully I can get it to shoot sub moa consistently.



80gr eld vs 85.5 Hybrid
Link Posted: 11/3/2019 6:39:47 PM EDT
[#48]
So, it looks like I’ll be trying out a LaRue ultimate upper kit in the future. Is there a particular one that anyone would like evaluated? I’m currently leaning towards 6.5 grendel and 6.5 creedmoor, but I’m open to suggestions.
Link Posted: 11/4/2019 9:16:17 AM EDT
[#49]
Grendel is the more interesting one to me.

Mainly because already have a 6.5 CM.
Link Posted: 11/4/2019 4:56:53 PM EDT
[#50]
I'd second Grendel.  Mine wants to play but it is suffering from bad glass right now, I've had a lot of groups that are really good but haven't shot it specifically for groups much.
Page / 7
AR Precision Testing (Page 4 of 7)
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