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Posted: 8/25/2005 4:39:13 PM EDT
im looking to see if any fellow arfcomers in VA are lawyers or could help me with some legal help.

i can fax paperwork and can pay the fee also. i figure i would start here first instead of looking for someone i dont know anything about.

or if anyone around the NoVa could recommend a good lawyer.

im looking for some help with contracts, namely new car contracts.

here's why

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:05:00 PM EDT
Not a lawyer, but doesn't Cliffy work for Toyota.. maybe he can provide some insight
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:06:59 PM EDT
im basically looking for someone that can look over the contract and tell me if its a done deal and they are trying to screw me or if they can do something legally.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:27:25 PM EDT
Chesterfield Dodge tried that same shit with me. And they said because I did not call them back right away the pay off amount went up so I had to give them another 1500 bucks. I told them to try and come take that truck back. I paid, I signed and its done. Never heard from them again.

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:28:39 PM EDT
This is a very common play by car dealers. A Ford dealer in Richmond tried the same crap with a friend of mine. I can't tell you for sure without seeing your paperwork, but normally vehicle purchase contracts have merger clauses and 4 corners clauses (which means that contract is final an complete, as is), and assuming the financing and rate is part of the contract - they can't make you do a damn thing as far as changing it. That is not the case if there is language in there making it contingent on financing being approved or bought by a third party lender, but that was not present in the Ford one that I looked at for my friend.

What they're doing is trying to get a higher rate or more cash and play a shell game with you to make more money, and try to blame it on some third party ("the bank") and pretend that they are innocent. They had an opportunity to check your credit and income before they offered you the deal - if they're having trouble selling the loan off to a finance company, then that is THEIR problem. Not yours.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:39:50 PM EDT
i told them that they aren't getting one penny from me and if they want the truck back they are more than welcome. just give me my car back and i'll go to another nissan dealership and get a better deal. he didnt like that
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:57:59 PM EDT
playboy...

I have a few lawyer friends that might be able to help...

IM me tomorrow
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:48:30 AM EDT
I am going to reply here because this is a safer place than GD. Yes, I work in a car dealership in VA, I work in finance, I know the type of dealership that Passport is and I think I might even know your finance guy. Is his last name Dadpay?

Here's the situation. You signed a "MacArthur Statement." Its also known as a "conditioned contract statement" or a "courtesy delivery" form. Essentially, it says the contract still must be approved by the lender. If the lender does not approve it, you have the option of retruning the car or arranging other finance terms. It allows the dealer to let you get in the car before the loan is approved and allows you the ability to make a decision immediately. Ethical dealers will not let a car off the lot if they don't have a pretty good idea that they can get the loan approved.

What likely happened in your case has to do with negative equity. Did you owe more on your old car than it was worth? If so, that may have pushed the total transaction price above what the bank will normally accept. If your FICO score is close to 700, the dealer probably figured they could get the loan approved anyway and let you take it.

Now, the 10 day thing is a pile of crap. When a deal is turned down by the bank, we often "rehash" it with them. We'll go back and tell the bank why we think they should let one go. More often than not, we can get these done. Sometimes we don't, but it usually only takes a couple of days. We want to get it straight as quickly as possible because the longer you have it, the more miles you put on it and that makes it harder to sell later.

Now for the good news. If you do decide to keep the truck and you put the additional $700 down, its not like you're loosing $700. The loan will be recalculated with a new and lower principal balance. You're payments will be lower as well. The $700 does not go towards dealer profit in any way.

The bad news is, you don't have a lot legal options. Ethical or not (and its not in this case), they have the legal right to do what they did. You will spend a lot more than $700 on legal fees, only to be told you have to return the truck and they will give you your car back.

I wish I had better news for you on this. I hope this helps.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:37:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cliffy109:

Here's the situation. You signed a "MacArthur Statement." Its also known as a "conditioned contract statement" or a "courtesy delivery" form.



How do you know he signed a conditional contract? You haven't even seen it.

I can tell you that the contract that my friend signed for his Ford was NOT contingent or conditional in anyway, and was fully integrated. They also told him that they had already sold off his trade-in, so reversing the deal was not an option according to them.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:52:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dbrowne1:


How do you know he signed a conditional contract? You haven't even seen it.

I can tell you that the contract that my friend signed for his Ford was NOT contingent or conditional in anyway, and was fully integrated. They also told him that they had already sold off his trade-in, so reversing the deal was not an option according to them.



Well, I don't know, but I'm taking Afplayboy's word for it. In his other threaad, he said "I was reading over the contract and it basically says that if the financing is denied then i can cancel the sale at anytime and return the truck and i will get my car back, if the car is sold then i will get something the same value." That's a MacArthur statement, meaning "I shall return" with the car if financing is denied.

Every dealership I am aware of has some form of this signed during the delivery process. In fact, we even get this form signed if the loan is already approved. Why? Well, if a customer lied on his credit application, the loan would be turned down at a later date. Without a MacArthur, we as a dealership would be required to carry the loan ourselves. Any dealership that doesn't get one of these signed is essentially becoming the personal gaurantor of every loan they arrange.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:07:30 AM EDT
the finance guy i talked to, Hamid, told me that i had to pay an extra $750 down or they would have to raise my interest rate. the only talk about redoing the contract was if i didnt pay the $750. he said if i just paid the $750 then it would go through...thats what i got caught up on.

so...

thank you cliffy for your help and everyone else.

i was stressing out way too much over this and ended up calling the GM at passport nissan this morning and talking with him. after he talked to Hamid he called me back and said that there was $750 missing somewhere and they needed it from me. but somehow they found it and now everything is taken care of. he said i wont be hearing from them anymore and everything is fine.

i can live with that...its just the stress and honestly it pissed me off when they asked me for more money after 10 days.

but its done now, i hope, thanks guys

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:51:54 AM EDT
Glad it worked out, but that's a lot more fishy than needing $700 to get the deal approved. More than likely, its an innocent error on Hamid's part, but that sure looks bad.
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