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OK! A Note from Cowboy on ammo performance and selection. I'm gonna blatently copy and paste parts of this from the ammo oracle and various smart-people-posts from the ammo forum. I'll give credit where due, but if you said something and I didn't credit you, please take no offense. At the moment of this initial draft, the fragmentation charts are hard to come by. I'll update with more info asap. 5.56 Ammo (briefs, followed by some velocity and frag info) 55 grain M193 ammo: This should be your go to ammo if you're on any kind of budget at all. It can be had cheap and its plentiful right now. I'm stacking it deep. Performance wise, its going to create a nice big wound cavity in somebody, out to ~135 yards with a 20" barrel. Federal XM193 is the cream of the crop, but surplus ammo is availble in this flavor and most of it is NATO spec, or close to it. This ammo will run well in ALL barrel twists. It is battlefield accurate at ~3 MOA (Minute of Angle). Most will do better than that. 62 grain M855 ammo: This would be stacked deeper in my closet, if the availability was better. This is current USGI ammo. It has a green tip for easy ID. The big deal is the steel penetrator in the core. This lets it punch through a helmet out to 800 yards (at least out of the M249). Reports of fragmentation troubles have been reported, but it is still a viable round. The fragmentation range is shorter, the max is going to be closer to 100 yards on a good day, in a 20" barrel. The plus side is, the ACOG's Bullet Drop Compensator reticles are made for this round, and high end scopes will have elevation turrets availble for this round. It needs at least a 1:9 twist to stabilize. This round is also battlefield accurate at ~3MOA. Most will do better than that. Federal XM855 is the flagship round, with very few other loads being similar. OTM rounds: Open Tip Match rounds are bringing out the best in the 5.56 and the AR-15 platform. 75 and 77 grain are the cream of the crop right now. The 2 common loads will be addressed here. Hornady 75gr TAP (5.56 pressure): This is MY go to ammo. Every weapon, every mag. It leaves a vary big wound cavity, and really shines in shorter barrel weapons. Short barrels, like the 10.5" Mk18 currently used by various go fast types, leave alot to be desired in the velocity department. With the ball ammo mentioned above, you get fragmentation ranges of 10 yards or less. With the TAP round, you get fragmentation out to at least 50 yards. Moving up to a 20" barrel will put your frag range out beyond 200 yards. Remember, fragmentation is what makes this round a killer, so this is a good thing. On top of all that, this round will shoot sub MOA all day long with a good shooter and a good platform. Hornady makes 75gr TAP in 5.56 pressure and .223 pressure. The lower .223 pressure does affect the frag range, but not the accuracy. Black Hills also makes a similar loading. 77 grain Mk 262 Mod 01: This is .mil issue ammo for the SPR, DRM and other accurized battlefield weapons. It is very similar to the 75gr round mentioned above, with similar velocity and fragmentation ranges. This is my second favorite round, and all of my scoped rifles are zero'd for this round. ALOT of battlefield info, insight and experiance are around for this one (if you know who to ask ) It will be sub-MOA in all shooting conditions. This one also helps the short barrel'd guns excell at their jobs. Similar rounds are made to .223 pressure levels by Black Hills and Federal. This ammo was designed by .mil shooters, for .mil shooters. If Big Army would standardize on this ammo, it would be the biggest advancement for the platform since the M16A2. Basic frag info: (Ranges in yards, and approximate) - From ar15.com member Molon. Weapons 20" 16" 14.5" 10.5" Ammo: M193 135 105 90 ~25 M855 125 90 85 ~10 75gr/77gr 205 165 130 ~50 |
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i'm interested in seein what the hell all the placeholders are for........
Comms: with a couple well placed repeaters and good, high-output mobile rigs with good antennas, statewide comms could be fairly easily facilitated on 2m amateur band. IMHO, though, the IDEAL setup would be to use ONE centrally located repeater (probly biased toward the hills -- say, Conway area -- with everybody operating on 6m. that band is rather sparsely populated so we won't hafta fight for airtime. and since it's a lower freq band, it'll carry a bit further. also, it's not uncommon to see 6m rigs with 100w output (ref. my IC-706MkII-G). all ya'll that are interested should take Cowboy up on his challenge and get your tickets. both of the bands i mentioned are wide open to lowly Tech-class licenses. |
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Adding more info as we go |
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i have a honda 2000i but i don't know the load it would have to take to run the well at my gmas house(1st bol). Nor do i know the depth of her well, but ill be fixing that shortly when i go to fix her roof
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Water is #1 on my list, of necessary survival provisions. I have experienced heat prostration and dehydration, during my younger years, when working outside during the hot summer.
We just got our new water filter system in and set up last night. I spotted this one in the survival equipment forum, I think. Anyway, it is a BERKEY. I have used several different kitchen fawcet attach types before. They were all useless for my water. I am really impressed with this unit. The water tastes great. I have been sensitive to water taste since I was a kid. Best home filtered water I have ever had. I usually instal a GE RO system wherever I live. I recently found out that I have been causing myself some medical problems by drinking only distilled or RO water. As I understand it, it can raise the acidity level in your body, with some pretty sever consequences for some people (me). It is similar to the feeling you get when you have lifted that last weight or run that last 100 yards. The more I read about it, the less I understood. The BERKEY is not cheap, but the filters are supposedly some of the best in the world. This one has holes for 4 filters, but comes with only 2, and 2 plugs to to plug the extra holes. The idea is. that you can add filters and double the output speed. We are filling the bottom of our chest freezer with nearly full 1 gal water jugs. Then a layer of cardboard or something suitable for stacking the frozen foods. On top of the food, will be another form of ice in containers of approiate size. The idea behind this is to provide an extra measure of protection for the frozen food in a long term power outage. Running my generator is fine for awhile, but not indefinitely. Hopefully, we can keep it cold enough till it is used up or given away or whatever. I don't plan on using freezing as my primary preservation storage, so I am not concerned with keeping the freezer full of frozen foods. This method will double as water storage also. Nothing like ice water during hot days, without electricity. ETA: My well is 360' deep and is full of minerals. Some people around here drink it. I hate it. |
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Well I have been pretty quiet lately, but I have been doing a lot of reading on different subjects, mostly alternative energy, and am thinking that with small amounts of work that power can be kept on in some form in most emergencies. I am very interested in what other knowledge we have between us in that area.
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i used to hunt out of a cabin in northern CA. it had a stream right next to it. they put pipe up river. started out 5 inch i think then slowly brought it down to 1 1/2 then into a 55 gallon drum. in the drum there was a alternator that would turn. then the water would go out of the drum pretty fast. with the water turning the alternator it charged batterys on the deck. with the batterys it ran lights and tv. it worked really good. easy to set up i would think. and with all the water in AR it might just work.
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Ok, I should have some free time this week to do some more write ups, if nothing else I'll be sitting on my ass most of next weekend and will get some done then. But I know there is a lot of knowledge here and we're doing this to help one another. So seriously, get to posting before I eat all your children.
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As for filters I have tried it all. The best I have used is from Culligan.
The housing was a little over $100 and the filters run about $16 and last about two months for us. We have spent $3500 on automatic backflushing sand filters and that did little since it is clay that is our problem hting Here's my contact: Tyler Swearingen Manager Culligan PCI 1317 North Hills Blvd Ste 407 North Little Rock, AR 72114 (501) 771-9990 [email protected] |
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I wish it would be that easy for us. 4 whole hours per filter.
We're building a heavy duty salt/sand/gravel filter at the advice (and with the help of) an engineer from central arkansas water. |
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We know they're out there, standing around making fun of your preps. Relatives and "friends" that aren't worth a grain of salt. We all have them. You know those that quit their job because they had to get up to early or they come borrow your chainsaw and you have to go get it to find the bar burned up and no appoligy is even offered.
Decide NOW how to deal with these people. You have a few options. A: Don't let them know you are preparing. B: Try to bring them into the fold and get them to prep. C: When they sho up after TSHTF run them off with a shotgun. D: Take them in and let them mooch putting a strain on what you have worked so hard for. I personally confine my information to people I care strongly about. Of course I get the jokes about being paranoid and the promises of "well I know where I am coming if there is a war/flood/earthquake/ect". I always follow that up with "I wouldn't do that, that is a hell of a good way to get yourself shot at by mistake" What are you going to do, If you don't think about it now, you may end up taking option D: out of guilt or living with the guild of running off someone you may actually care about to their death. Me? I plant one seed at a time, bringing it up with any conversation that is remotely related to any aspect of "survival". Most of us know more "survivalists" that we know, they are just as secretive and afraid of the scrutiny as we are. If they get a hint you are like-minded, they will drop a hint your way. |
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Valid points. The most often overlooked preperation for survival is the first one you need. Not water, not food, not shelter, it's Mindset.
What lengths are you willing to go through to ensure the survival of you, your loved ones, and your team? Are you prepared to use your weapons to defend your stuff? Do you think racking a shotgun will really scare people off? (if you do, get the hell out, or drop that B.S. line of thinking right now.) Delta, SF, and Seals will fight through wounds that will take most people out of the fight. Not because they're physically stronger, but because they are mentally stronger than most. They are highly dedicated, extremely motivated men with one goal in mind. WIN. We have the same goal. Take a moment to think about your mortality. Religion aside, when your heart stops beating, that is IT. Whether it be by bullet, illness, starvation, dehydration, or whatever, you'll be dead, it's the end of life, get that through your head. Think long and hard about it. Then decide whether or not you posess the resolve to do whatever it takes to ensure that you survive. Then educate yourself. Learn how to get water in the desert with only a knife, a few cups, and some clear plastic. Learn what can be done with a little hobby wire and a hatchet in terms of snares. Can you build a fire without manmade firestarters? You gotta have some knowledge people. |
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While not all encompassing starting with a FM21-76 is a good start. Learning use of ropes and knots (something I am lacking in) is always a good idea. Making snares is a good way to get food without expending ammo. Filtering water with only basic materials is never a waste of time.
All these things though mean nothing if you are not willing to see it through. Meaning if you are willing to let someone take what is yours without offering resistance (not something I think people on this board are willing to do) then you become nothing more than prey to the wolves if the SHTF. I agree with dusty, mindset is more important than any knowledge you can acquire. Lastly, think about getting books, as helpful as the net is, if you lose power, the net goes down, or communications get disrupted you cant get the information you need. Prepare you mind, prepare you body, learn the skills. |
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like ur post number ^. we are always looking for books to read. we have foxfire its a good set of books about old ways. also canning/preserve books. sure u can grow food but what are u going to do with it all when its ready to eat and u can only use a small part of it. to me canning is a awsome thing for shtf. u can use it over a camp fire and put away a lot of food. i am always readiing survival type books to learn more. after u read or watch u really need to try and see if u can do it or not.
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Meat Preservation
150 years ago If meat was not eaten immediately, it had to be preserved. The abundance of game varied and fresh meat was not always available. Meat to be stored was preserved in several ways: drying, smoking or salting. Drying For added flavor, jerky was made by drying meat over smoky coals. Meat sun-dried in long strips was called jerky. The strips, 1/4 - to l/2 -inch (.6 to 1.3 centimeters) thick by about 1 inch (2.5 centimeters) wide and up to several feet (decimeters) long, were hung from a wooden rack in a sunny place. After several days, they were leather dry and ready for storage. Sometimes drying meat was sprinkled with pepper to discourage insects. Berries and roots were also sun-dried. In addition to preserving food, drying reduced the amount of water in the food and made it easier to pack and carry. A high-energy food, called pemmican, was made from jerky, fat and dried berries. It was made by melting fat and stirring into it shredded jerky and dried berries such as chokecherries, currants or blueberries. When the fat cooled and hardened, it was cut into bars and wrapped in rawhide. Ounce for ounce, pemmican is still one of the most high-energy food sources available. Smoking Smoking consisted of drying meat in the heat of a smoky fire. Green hardwood such as hickory, placed on a bed of coals, provided the smoke. Fish to be smoked were split and hung on wooden racks above the fire. Meat was treated as for jerky. Smoking not only retarded spoilage, it also added flavor. The modern backyard smoker comes from this primitive technique; however, with modern-day smoking, the intent is not to dry the meat. The process, therefore, is carried out in an enclosure that reduces moisture loss. For details on how to make and use a smoker, see Project 4. Salting Sometimes meat was packed in salt or a brine solution to preserve it. Large expeditions carried barrels of salted pork. EGGS Chickens will lay year round, but did you know you can make them last for several months with no refrigeration with a few different tricks? The trick is to keep air out and keep them cool. Melt butter and mix in salt, coat the FRESH (wiped not washed never refrigerated) eggs in this solution so it seals all the pores. Put a layer of cornmeal in a bucket, followed by a layer of coated eggs, followed by a layer of meal, repeat. Store them somewhere cool and dry. If you will flip your bucket once a week, the yoke will stay suspended and they will last even longer. |
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If everything goes well, me and the family will end up in Southern Ark. We got a ranch down near the Oklahoma border. Right now I'm working on communications using a 2Meter set up. That way we can hopefully communicate with locals in Arkansas as well as Oklahoma and Texas. I already have some basic stuff like: food, colemen propane grill, ammo, and firearms. I pick up stuff every time I find a deal. Our land also has a couple of small freashly stocked lakes as well.
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I'm near Harrison, and the family has 50 acres outside of town. We also have 200 acres near Atkins. I'll be bugging in if possible, then fall back to the land, then finally, meet with extended family down south if necessary.
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I think you have a good idea. I am fairly new to getting ready. I also have a Berkey water filter. The water is very good thru them and each filter lasts for 3000 gallons of water. Hadn't been checking in much since Gunner01 left Arkansas. But I will check this thread pretty regularly now. Would like to get to know some of the other members in the state.
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Quoted: Bump for added info to the OP And I've added an intro to 5.56 ammo in one of the earlier posts. It will get better over the next few days, and reach into other calibers. |
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a good video for u guys learning or thinking about storing food in bulk. there is a couple videos its worth the time if u have not done it yet. i was not wait to long to start this guys
stuck http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW7_cTn6YpE |
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My panic buying started last night......I bought a NIB Beta mag with the clear back and all accessories - found a steal for $200 !!!!
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Quoted:
My panic buying started last night......I bought a NIB Beta mag with the clear back and all accessories - found a steal for $200 !!!! Don't trust your life to it. beta mags are bad juju. |
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Ok guys i live in the conway area and i would like to see about getting together with the group for some mutual support. let me know what i need to do
Thanks |
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Quoted:
Ok guys i live in the conway area and i would like to see about getting together with the group for some mutual support. let me know what i need to do Thanks IM sent |
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I would like to be part of the group as well. I live in Jacksonville.
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Dusty contacted me about the Dec 6th hope to make it look forward to meeting you guys. I have plenty of weapons/ammo and training as well as some practical experience. However i need lots of advice and training in several areas. Especially communications and the more technical aspects. I have just recently really starting to get prepared so im a little behind the 8 ball and will need some advice from some of you guys. I would really appreciate it.
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as for comms, me and m4geek just got our ham radio licenses for backup. with my little hand held i have talked to memphis and harrison
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if u have any ?'s on food and putting it away just ask on here and we will try and help u out. food is one thing most people are behind on. u can never have enough.
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bump
i just ordered a few of these for myself, family and friends to be looking at. I'll be adding some other old school food prep items to the kitchen, and we're gonna be firing up the garden machine before much longer. I'll try to update yall before and after so the group mind can keep me from doing something stupid |
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i have gotten stuff from the LDS people before. great people to deal with. i would really like to get up to one of there canning places but the closes one to me is in kansas city. if u guys have any extra room in the backyard put in a garden. we have one right now thats 25x25 we got a ton of food out of it. this year we are going to plant more of what worked for us and skip what did not. we are also thinking of making it bigger. if u have seeds and some room ur set. check out grage sales and get urself a presure canner and water bath canner. to me there one of the best survival tools u can have. u can always heat them up over a fire if there is no power.
stuck |
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I'm in as well, was into this idea when I expanded the VuDuLounge into the Hacienda del VuDu...I'll be investing in operational goodies upon my return...as I'll be semi-retired...not to be confused with semi-concious...
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Quoted:
I'm in as well, was into this idea when I expanded the VuDuLounge into the Hacienda del VuDu...I'll be investing in operational goodies upon my return...as I'll be semi-retired...not to be confused with semi-concious... This is Arfcom, here we "get both" |
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I have a list of stuff to get, 4 wheeler, zodiac, quadruple my beer production, generator, solar power, large ammo buy, and have thinking about comms...in my spare tme here while BS'ing with the compadres we've adopted the custom of never using the words 'compound' and 'Arkansas' in the same sentence...Tactical Deer Camp...maybe...I already have all my own personal gear...and wouldn't want to be running around in all this tan stuff...
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http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=618445&sr=0 That thread has taught me alot on water storage and treatment....and I thought I knew alot already! |
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Quoted:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=618445&sr=0
That thread has taught me alot on water storage and treatment....and I thought I knew alot already! I plan on just drinking my own piss. |
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I got nice bug out location all set up west of Rogers a little bit, springs with drinkable water, pond with fish, decent creek with fishing, few deer, lots of cattle around, good building. I will need some help with security, I'm the only shooter in the fam. Also could use some back up food preps and a generator. If anyone is interested in joining my survival group and can bring help let me know.
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