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Posted: 9/9/2004 6:28:13 PM EST
notice anything missing in the picture?



that's right, no 1911. I plan on getting a nice 1911 pretty soon. I'm not an expert on 1911's so I need a little help picking one out. I don't plan on shooting matches or anything so adjustable sights really aren't necessary, although night sights would be nice. I don't neccessarily wan't anything "too cheap" either. But on the other hand I don't want anything to expensive. Can yall give me some help/recommendations please?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:40:07 PM EST
Kimber, fullsize, series I, internal extractor.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:41:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:47:06 PM EST
How much are you willing to pay?

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:47:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=88&t=203426



That's a nice gun, but the thing is I have to sell my truck before I buy anything first.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:51:30 PM EST
Kimber is most likely the best for the money. Series one will give you a better trigger pull. As for the external extractor, I have one with and one without. I would perfer an internal, but have no problems with the external. Kimber is the only 1911 with an external extractor that I would consider.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 6:55:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:05:22 PM EST by Sharpshot]

Originally Posted By MisterFloppy:
How much are you willing to pay?



under 1k at least

thanks for everyone's recommendations so far.

now I have another Q, whats the difference between the internal and external extractor? I know what the extractor is I just don't know the difference.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:05:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 7:08:55 PM EST by CaptainAhab]
The internal extrractor is the original design of the 1911, and is a piece of tensioned spring steel mounted internally to the slide. The tension provides teh spring force necessary to grip the cartridge as well as teh flexibility to slide over the case rim if necessary.

The external extractor is the "new" design produced by kimber and is similar to the extractors found on your glock or usp. they typcially have a coil spring to provide tension.

hope that helps.

There is a bit of controversy about the new design because it seems to have some reliability problems, I personally know some people that have had failures to extract because of dirt in the external extractor, but YMMV.

Wilson, Les Baer both use internal extractors.

Also, the series II kimbers have a firing pin block safty similar, but different, to the series 80 colts.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:07:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By CaptainAhab:
The internal extrractor is the original design of the 1911, and is a piece of tensioned spring steel mounted internally to the slide. The tension provides teh spring force necessary to grip the cartridge as well as teh flexibility to slide over the case rim if necessary.

The external extractor is the "new" design produced by kimber and is similar to the extractors found on your glock or usp. they typcially have a coil spring to provide tension.

hope that helps.



thanks, it helped.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 10:07:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 10:28:04 PM EST by MisterFloppy]

Originally Posted By Sharpshot:

Originally Posted By MisterFloppy:
How much are you willing to pay?



under 1k at least

thanks for everyone's recommendations so far.

now I have another Q, whats the difference between the internal and external extractor? I know what the extractor is I just don't know the difference.



Kimber Custom TLE II

Or a Smith & Wesson, I heard they are pretty good.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 10:25:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 3:53:23 AM EST by Va_Dinger]
My suggestions for a 1911 under $1000:

(1.) Springfield "Loaded"
Beavertail grip safety, Novak low mount night sights, ambi-thumb safety
(2.) Kimber 25th Anniversay Custom
Series one(No passive safety) and Internal extractor

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 10:59:24 PM EST
STI Trojan. They are without a doubt the best for the money. They have match grade everything and adjustable sights. I think there is a used one in the equipment exchange for under 800. website is www.stiguns.com
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:04:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:06:56 PM EST
I can't make up my mind on which .45 to get, a hi-cap para-ord or a HK
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:07:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By SGB:
Colt or Kimber, Hard to go wrong with either.




SGB knows and in that order too.

I would check out the XSE Govt Model by Colt. Great 1911 with everything you need right from the factory.

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:42:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 6:53:19 AM EST by CaptainAhab]
I have a colt, and they are nice guns, but I can't remeber how they run price wise vs. a kimber.

One advantage to the kimber is that the front and rear sights are usually dovetailed into the slide, which makes changing sights a bit easier when compared to the post mounted sight that is typical of the colts. I choose not to have carry guns without night sights, novaks preferred.

I like both of Va_Dinger's suggestions, although I have never owned a springfield, I know several people who think highly of them including the person who modifies 1911s for delta, and I can't remeber his name right now. But you would probably be happy with either of those two choices.

twonami - If I were getting a non-single stack .45 it would be the HK, but that's just my opinion.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:06:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:44:18 AM EST
thanks guys for everyone's replies and recommendations. decisions, decisions... I'm going to start doing some further research too.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 12:17:44 PM EST
Its like choosing one woman from a room full of beautiful women. You'd like to have them all
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 12:21:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By RustyTX:
Its like choosing one woman from a room full of beautiful women. You'd like to have them all



true that!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:00:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 4:01:09 PM EST by MaverickMkii]
Get the Kimber Series I or Series II with INTERNAL extractor. Or the NRM Colt 1991A1. (I couldn't find this one though. I went with USED Kimber with INTERNAL rather than new with external)

(heh...I was a Glockholic a few months ago and now I'm telling people which 1911 to buy... )

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:32:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By MaverickMkii:
(heh...I was a Glockholic a few months ago and now I'm telling people which 1911 to buy... )




I think I'm going to go with the Kimber when I get one, it's also more affordable. It's ok to be both, right?
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 1:05:25 AM EST
Stock as can be, then add a good trigger, recoil spring , high viss sights, mags and take those extra pennnies you saved and pitch them at the wall. Colt or SA, something about Kimbers I just donn't like.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:14:56 PM EST
If it's not a problem, would yall post pics of your Kimber Series I 1911's maybe with a brief description? I think this is what I'm going to go with but there seems to be so many different variants. I really like the looks of the stainless.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 4:19:58 AM EST
Kimber (Series 1) 25th Anniversary Custom. Internal extractor and no series two passive safety.

This is an older picture that does not show the addition of Novak sights and new grips. My new pictures suck. I will try to take some better pictures of the pistol today.

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 8:56:42 AM EST
Colt Gold Cup
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:27:00 AM EST
I wouldn't freak out one way or the other about the Kimber extractors. I've got a Stainless II with the external, and the sky most certainly hasn't fallen. Great pistol, perfectly reliable, and a good value for the $$. Never a jam.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 12:20:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 12:20:55 PM EST by Sharpshot]

Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
I wouldn't freak out one way or the other about the Kimber extractors. I've got a Stainless II with the external, and the sky most certainly hasn't fallen. Great pistol, perfectly reliable, and a good value for the $$. Never a jam.



Does Kimber's Stainless II mean Series II (external extractor)? I assume there is a Stainless I?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:16:00 PM EST
Yes and yes. I believe the earlier was just called the Stainless.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:23:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 7:24:07 PM EST by CaptainAhab]

Originally Posted By Sharpshot:

Does Kimber's Stainless II mean Series II (external extractor)? I assume there is a Stainless I?



I am not sure which models they still make as a series I and which you can only get as a series II.

Your experience with the ext. extractor may be fine, but from the "bash kimber" threads I have read, almost all the complaints have come from the series II guns with the ext. extractor. I have also seen others have problems with them, usually FTE. Your milage, of course, may vary.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:59:09 AM EST
My main 1911 started as a Kimber Custom 5" . I sent it to Novaks to have 3-dot tritium low-mount sights installed. I also had Novak do a reliability job, trigger job w/short videcki trigger, remove the guiderod in place of a gi plug and cap (so that it's press-checkable and alot easier to strip and reassemble) and 30lpi checkering by Pete Single. I have carbon fiber stocks on it, and carry it in an Alessi GWH (the best IWB anywhere).

All this, including the original price of the pistol, set me back over 2k. But, it's the best handgun I've ever shot or owned, hands down. If I can figure out how to host pictures, I can takee some pics of it.


-Jim
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 1:18:17 AM EST
I have several 1911s and like them all, In your shoes I would probably look at the Kimber TLE II...I have one that I have replaced the guide rod and mainspring housing on, put on a set of wood stocks and am happy as a clam with. 500 rounds of ball and JHP and zero problems...although I do use Wilson mags exclusively. I like the night sights and the checkering on the TLE for a using gun. I almost bought an Anniversary Model the other day because I still prefer the older design without the extra safety and external extractor, but I decided I did not want to sink the extra money into mods on what is essentially a standard Series I Kimber with pretty stocks. Adding the checkering and sights alone will set you back at least a couple hundred bucks if you have a good 'smith do it. On the TLE it has been done for you already at a lower cost.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 2:16:05 AM EST
Get a Para Ordnance P14 .45 it's a 1911 w/14 +1 rds.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 2:24:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=88&t=203426

Link Posted: 9/15/2004 3:38:49 AM EST
With your budget, I'd look into the TLEII if you like night sights and checkered front straps, and the standard Custom II if you don't. If you intend to ever carry it, stick to fixed sights as opposed to adjustable.

Personally I dislike the Series II Kimbers, although the one I had functioned just fine with FMJ ammo. It is my feeling that the Series II safety is additional and unnecesary parts that can (and eventually will) break, and that the external extractor is a place for dirt & grime to get caught and render the pistol inoperable. Will either of these things ever cost me my life? Probably not, but then again what are my chances of ever actually using my pistol to defend myself anyway? If given the option I'll always go with something I consider to be simpler and more reliable than one that's more complicated and therefore more prone to breakage.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 7:12:44 AM EST
thanks guys, that's a load of useful info.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 8:53:41 AM EST
No question in my mind that the Springfield loaded is the best deal available. No Kimber series two BS. Novak night sights, ambi thumb safety, and a beavertail grip safety. All are nice upgrades that come stock on a pistol that is actually cheaper than the Kimber TLE. Not to mention it has an Internal extractor.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 10:33:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
No question in my mind that the Springfield loaded is the best deal available. No Kimber series two BS. Novak night sights, ambi thumb safety, and a beavertail grip safety. All are nice upgrades that come stock on a pistol that is actually cheaper than the Kimber TLE. Not to mention it has an Internal extractor.



I have tried and tried to like Springfield over the years. I just can't get over all the sharp edges and the gritty feeling of the internals. When I was 1911 shopping last year I had heard that Springfield had corrected these problems, so I rushed out to the stores to check them out. Imagine my dismay when I discovered that they were as bad as ever.

I'd take a Dan Wesson over a Springfield all day long.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 1:08:27 PM EST
I have a kimber cusotm II Gold match. Even though it's a "II" it has an interna extractor. 10K + rounds later it's never failed me. I've also got a Colt NRM 1991A1, that has fed and extracted everything I've given it, and the trigger is pretty darn good at 4 1/4 pounds. Good enough, that I could no longer justify the price of the kimber based on the trigger alone. That said, I had a Kings grip safety and Ed Brown arched MSH put on for 66 bucks. With the Kings, I could keep the stock spur hammer but it still protected my hand from the spur. Unfortunately, the front sight shot loose after about 1100 rounds. It's currently having a new sight put on. I can't afford to have the dovetail cut right now and a set of novaks put on, but the guy who's doing the new sight has a tool that he says will tack it on quite nicely. While it's there, he's polishing the internals on the trigger to smooth it up. The total on this will be about 60 bucks. Soooo 525 for the gun, 66 for the MSH, Beavertail, 60 for the trigger/new sight and I'm still 300 under the cost of the kimber. And it's got a little custom work to let me know it's mine. I've got a set of custom grips coming at a cost of about 80 bucks.

I've nothing against the Springfield, or the Smith and Wesson. I've heard good things about both. I've also heard good things about the Sig GSR. I really don't think you'll get a lemon with any of them. STI trojan's are very nice, and can be had for under a grand. Although, if I remember right they have a nylon trigger. Which doesn't really do it for me.

I say figure out whichever one toots yer tonkers and buy it.
Link Posted: 9/16/2004 2:06:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2004 2:09:05 PM EST by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
No question in my mind that the Springfield loaded is the best deal available. No Kimber series two BS. Novak night sights, ambi thumb safety, and a beavertail grip safety. All are nice upgrades that come stock on a pistol that is actually cheaper than the Kimber TLE. Not to mention it has an Internal extractor.



I have tried and tried to like Springfield over the years. I just can't get over all the sharp edges and the gritty feeling of the internals. When I was 1911 shopping last year I had heard that Springfield had corrected these problems, so I rushed out to the stores to check them out. Imagine my dismay when I discovered that they were as bad as ever.

I'd take a Dan Wesson over a Springfield all day long.



Lets just say I do not agree with you. I've also never seen a Springfield that felt "Gritty".
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 7:37:03 AM EST
decisions, decisions...

BTW what Springfield model is "loaded"?
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 10:12:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sharpshot:
decisions, decisions...

BTW what Springfield model is "loaded"?



www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-fs.shtml
Link Posted: 9/17/2004 2:42:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By Sharpshot:
decisions, decisions...

BTW what Springfield model is "loaded"?



www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-fs.shtml



Excellent. thanks Dinger.
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