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Posted: 9/16/2007 12:15:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2007 12:15:54 PM EST by Handydave]
I'm walking my 26 pound 12 year old dog this morning when 2 of my neighbors dogs
get out of the house ( a 5 year old lab and a 3 year old mut about the same size) and
bolt straight toward us. We have passed each other before on leashed walks and they
go nuts but never seemed attack prone( no teeth showing, bowed back, etc.) and just
wanted to sniff. So I put myself inbetween my dog and the neighbors and the lab tries
to nip at my dog the mut gets her full mouth on the back of my dogs next. I kicked it
as hard as I could in its' neck and it let go and a few more kicks to each before the
owners ran out and got their dogs under control. My dog was scared as shit but no
blood was drawn and she is a little sore. My neighborhood is an upscale place and I
cannot conceal my xd40 subcompact (I'm 5'7 150 lbs athletic build) and I don't carry
while walking the dog because of all the flack I will catch and the gossip will ensue.
Recommend me a smaller gun that I can conceal (I'm thinking of a sig 232) for my
dog walks. I have already told the owners that I called animal control and reported the
incident and will be well within my rights to kill the dog if they get loose again. I wan't
to be civil but if my wife was walking the dog she would be dead.
Link Posted: 9/16/2007 12:19:12 PM EST
If you're worried what your neighbors will think if you're carrying a gun, what will they think if you shoot someone's dog? You'll find out what flak and gossip is.

In answer to your question, you don't need a different gun. You need a better holster.
Link Posted: 9/16/2007 12:21:56 PM EST
Max may have a good point about the holster, but the SIG you mention is a real natural pointer and suitable for just the kind of split-second reaction that might be in order. This sounds like a situation where an aimed shot may not be possible.

Link Posted: 9/16/2007 12:27:52 PM EST
I think you can protect yourself and your dog with a can of good pepper spray. Give em a good blast in the eyes and snout.

I'm not against shooting attacking dogs on any principle other than there can be a whole lot of negatives for you--legally and socially.

K
Link Posted: 9/16/2007 12:28:04 PM EST
You think a .380 will stop a dog attack? rofl...

I have a small dog too, and I almost shot an unrestrained German Shepherd once who was intent on eating my 15 pound Scottie. The scooter-trash owner thought his dog attacking mine was funny until he realized I had a .45.
Link Posted: 9/16/2007 12:53:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Radiant556:
The scooter-trash owner thought his dog attacking mine was funny until he realized I had a .45.


Well?
Did you cap fido or what?


BTW, what .45 do you carry? If it's a 1911, what holster?
Link Posted: 9/16/2007 2:57:57 PM EST
Consider a J frame in 38+p or 357. They fit in the pocket nicely and do not print too much. An airweight weighs nothing on a walk. They carry 5 rounds which is enough for up to 2-3 dogs (otherwise consider a baby glock/Kahr).

But revolvers have one HUGE advantage: You can push the barrel into the dog and pull the trigger without the fear of jamming (failure to return to battery) that can happen with a semi-auto. With a semi, you need to keep the barrel an inch or two back when you fire or the first round can be the last due to jamming.

Seriously, a j-frame is awesome for conceal, weight, and enough power to drop most dogs. If you do not think the power ratio is enough, then up to a Kahr PM40 or a baby Glock. In my neighborhood, anything bigger on a walk is uncomfortable and too potentially noticed.

The fireball effect with the J-Frames is impressive too!
Link Posted: 9/16/2007 3:02:48 PM EST
One example of a j-Frame front/back pocket holster:

Pocket Holster with J-Frame

I carried one for some time before upping to a Kahr PM40 (Baby Glock is just so fat I cannot conceal it well in a front pocket), and I miss the J-Frame. The simplicity of the revolver is amazing.
Link Posted: 9/16/2007 3:04:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By RSF45:

Originally Posted By Radiant556:
The scooter-trash owner thought his dog attacking mine was funny until he realized I had a .45.


Well?
Did you cap fido or what?


BTW, what .45 do you carry? If it's a 1911, what holster?


No, I didn't. I picked my dog up with my left hand and tucked him under my arm while drawing with my right, and the dog's owner ran up and grabbed his dog just as he was about to cross the line.

I carry a 5" lightweight Springfield in a Galco NSAII IWB.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 4:19:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2007 4:21:17 AM EST by pulpsmack]
OC + ASP sounds like the best tools for dogs that are a big risk to your dog but aren't manstoppers per se, especially in light of your concern over what the neighbors think.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 4:36:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Radiant556:

Originally Posted By RSF45:

Originally Posted By Radiant556:
The scooter-trash owner thought his dog attacking mine was funny until he realized I had a .45.


Well?
Did you cap fido or what?


BTW, what .45 do you carry? If it's a 1911, what holster?


No, I didn't. I picked my dog up with my left hand and tucked him under my arm while drawing with my right, and the dog's owner ran up and grabbed his dog just as he was about to cross the line.

I carry a 5" lightweight Springfield in a Galco NSAII IWB.


Aside from carry or not - never pick up your dog if another dog(s) are acting agresive. It is an almost guarnteed invite to an attack. I've seen dogs rip smaller dogs out of their owners arms.

First response before reaching for OC, batton, or gun - turn in the direction of the dog, stomp your foot and yell NO! very loud. Do it several times, every time the dog(s) show agression toward your dog. The dog(s) will STOP and look at you. They're not expecting you to be a threat as they're focused on your dog. Keep walking away, slowly with your dog on a tight leash. Never take your eyes off the other dogs. If they try to advance again, do the same thing.

ALL Dogs understand NO! And what usually follows if they don't listen.

If the dogs show agression towards you - shoot or OC. Battons are a little too close in combat for big dogs.

,02

Nevis
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 5:45:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By NevisRuprecht:

<snip>
Nevis



Good advice all the way around. I also agree with the baton comment, and reiterate my advice about the baton is advice given specific to the facts of this scenario (which don't involve large "manstoppers").
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 5:45:42 AM EST
[sigh]

I really like good dogs, but I just can't understand the mentality of people who let their dogs run around unsupervised in the front yard/street/neighbor's yard/etc.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 6:03:52 AM EST
A good dose of OC or a whack in the head with an ASP will take the fun out of the dogs.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 6:31:27 AM EST
Get looser clothing? I don't see why you can't conceal your XD. I carry the same thing, but in the 9mm. I am also 5'7, 145, and have a runners build. I can't conceal well with tight clothes, but looser ones work fine. What kind of holster do you have?
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 6:40:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 8:17:09 AM EST
OC is the way to go here. Carrying concealed is a whole other issue.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 12:19:42 PM EST
I actually had pepper spray with me. I thought that when the dogs were running down they just wanted go do their sniff thing but instead chose to team up on my dog and did a full mouth bite on the back of her neck. I didn't have time to use it then and instead had to punt the dog off and I also didn't want to get it into my dogs eyes. Anyways, i think with animals once they bite pepper spray isn't gonna work to make them let go. Am I wrong?


Also, my holster is a galco high ride that came with the gun that I bought used.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 1:41:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Max_Power:


In answer to your question, you don't need a different gun. You need a better holster.


...and some nads.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 1:47:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2007 1:49:19 PM EST by NevisRuprecht]
A local dog attack today:


"FORT WASHINGTON, Md. -- A man was hospitalized after being attacked Monday by two dogs in Fort Washington.

Officials said the man was walking his dogs -- a husky mix and a shih tzu -- when two bull mastiffs (Cane Corso NOT Bull Mastiffs - Nevis) attacked them at about 7:30 a.m. in the 12900 block of Asbury Drive.

The attacking dogs bit the man in the legs and groin area. The victim, a minister, said he was attacked for 20 minutes, News4's Jane Watrel reported. Police said the man was taken to the hospital with non-life-threatening injuries.

One of the attacking dogs and one of the victim's dogs were killed in the incident, News4's Megan McGrath reported. A police spokeswoman said that many people witnessed the scene, including a federal officer. She said the officer fired the shots that killed the attacking dog.

The other attacking dog was scared away by the gunshot, and the federal officer then shot one of the victim's dogs, the victim said.

Officials said the other dog involved in the attack was found and taken into custody by animal control."


I was attacked by a white German Shepard long ago when I was 7yo. The only thing that saved me was a passing car that let me get behind an open door. It wasn't the first car that came upon the attack, actually it was the third. The other two drove by and didn't even bother to slow down. Must not have noticed the blood soaked 7yo in the middle of the road. I had 37 bites on my face, neck, back, arms, and legs. Took 150 stitches to close the wounds.

What caused it? I was riding my bike to a friends house, had to go by the house with the dog. It was a full grown dog but the owner had only had it about a week. As I passed the house the dog jumped the fence. I did not taunt the dog, I was on the other side of the road. I stopped the bike and put it between me and the dog. Didn't do much good as he went for whatever he could get to - hands, arms etc.

The owner...was not apologetic. He was only upset that his dog had to be destroyed.

Some hard learned advice: Never show fear. If you can help it, don't feel any fear. If possible take control by exerting YOUR authority over the dog. NO! STOP! Stomp your feet and yell NO! and STOP! again. If at anytime the dog gets too close for comfort, OC or shoot. If it is attacking it isn't going to feel a kick or hit (depending on the dog and how intent it is on killing you or your dog).

.02 + .02 makes .04 more than enough for one thread.

Nevis
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 1:49:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Max_Power:


In answer to your question, you don't need a different gun. You need a better holster.


...and some nads.


Dont know where you can buy nads, but buy a holster that works. No reason you should not be able to hide that XD--NONE.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 2:18:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2007 2:19:50 PM EST by Handydave]
Dupe

Link Posted: 9/17/2007 2:19:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Max_Power:


In answer to your question, you don't need a different gun. You need a better holster.


...and some nads.



I went through testicular cancer 5+ years ago and in the process had 1 testicle removed. Maybe that is my problem, I only have half the balls I used to.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 2:25:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Handydave:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Max_Power:


In answer to your question, you don't need a different gun. You need a better holster.


...and some nads.



I went through testicular cancer 5+ years ago and in the process had 1 testicle removed. Maybe that is my problem, I only have half the balls I used to.


They didn't cut off your trigger fingers? Cool. You're good to go.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 2:27:26 PM EST
Dave,

How were the neighbors after the attack?
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 2:29:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Handydave:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Max_Power:


In answer to your question, you don't need a different gun. You need a better holster.


...and some nads.



I went through testicular cancer 5+ years ago and in the process had 1 testicle removed. Maybe that is my problem, I only have half the balls I used to.


Ignore triburst1. He's still bitter that his mother busted him jerking off. It wouldn't be such a big deal, but he's 40 and it was Thanksgiving.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 2:31:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2007 2:34:52 PM EST by BIKECOP29]
Carry your XD in a Comp-Tac CTAC.
This works good on dogs too. Better on snakes.
Pepper spray is another viable option. But being outdoors, there is wind conditions to factor in. Expect that either you and/or your dog to get a wiff of OC if deployed.

ETA: Page 2 is mine!
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 3:22:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Radiant556:
You think a .380 will stop a dog attack? rofl...


Yes it will!

In fact I think a 22lr (walther p-22) will do the job when loaded with stingers and good shot placement.




feral pitbull after charging me. First shot at 15 yards, last shot and 3 feet. Would I recommend a 22 vs pitbull? Hell No! Now I carry a 357 , and I keep the ak47 nearby whenever I am out in the woods

Link Posted: 9/17/2007 3:30:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By GAhunter95:

Originally Posted By Radiant556:
You think a .380 will stop a dog attack? rofl...


Yes it will!

In fact I think a 22lr (walther p-22) will do the job when loaded with stingers and good shot placement.


i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc183/mschw04/dog2smiley.jpg

feral pitbull after charging me. First shot at 15 yards, last shot and 3 feet. Would I recommend a 22 vs pitbull? Hell No! Now I carry a 357 , and I keep the ak47 nearby whenever I am out in the woods



Where exactly did the rounds strike? BTW, good shooting.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 3:35:39 PM EST
Nice shooting!

BUT...when you live in an *upscale* neighborhood and your neighbor's prized Lab that he's spent thousands on training as a retriever bites your dog that was taking a crap in his yard and you shoot his deserving ass, you're probably going to find out he's president of the homeowners association and a litigious ass hole attorney! It might be prudent to try some other options first.

However, if his dog attacks you.....blow the mutt away!!!

JMHO.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 3:45:24 PM EST
look closely - one hole by her front left shoulder. Broke that shoulder and took out that lung. That was the first shot - I aimed and she was coming. Caught her in an "upstroke" so bullet entered at a good angle and did some damage. Last shot caught her at the base of the neck and really hurt her - got the other lung based on where bullet exited. Had a great window for head shots, but thought a 22 might really piss her off if they bounce off of her skull. Lined up first shot, then bam bam (maybe another bam) and it was over. You might be surprised how fast a dog with a broken shoulder can cover 15 yards! Only 2 entrance wounds found. So my first and last hit the mark - either one would have done her in - but how long she could have chewed on me until she died is the big question (and the answer is... less time than she could have chewed on me if I was unarmed). 357 would have put her on her back immediatley. Ak - with 30 rounds - the buzzards would have had an easy meal
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 3:48:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Yard_Dog:
Nice shooting!

BUT...when you live in an *upscale* neighborhood and your neighbor's prized Lab that he's spent thousands on training as a retriever bites your dog that was taking a crap in his yard and you shoot his deserving ass, you're probably going to find out he's president of the homeowners association and a litigious ass hole attorney! It might be prudent to try some other options first.

However, if his dog attacks you.....blow the mutt away!!!

JMHO.


I agree. I was out in the woods - a long way from any houses. I carry in my upscale neighborhood and would be very hesitant to shoot without a very serious threat.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread - sorry. OPs' situation is way different than mine - I just wanted to comment on an caliber remark, not take over.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 3:54:13 PM EST
CHEAP FIX = Better holster + pepper spray
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 3:56:18 PM EST
Well, I am dealing with a similar problem. I am trying to avoid the 'deadly force' level of dealing with bad dogs, but....

I have several different dogs in my neighborhood that keep charging me aggressively as I cycle.

I have tried pepper spray, rocks, loud voices, stopping my bike and shouting "NO!'

The only thing that has worked so far, without using a pistol, has been 'snap caps' (you know those little twisted pieces of paper around tiny rocks that pop when they hit the ground?)

All the other methods are becoming less effective since the dogs are beginnign to realize that I am not actually hurting them.

AS much as I am at the end of my tolerance, I still have not started packing a pistol to kill these dogs.

However, a 'new' dog has now joined the fray. Looks like a young pit, and he might be the first that takes a suppressed 22LR.

People love to tell you how their precious 'Diablo' and 'Satan' (seriously, these are two of the dog's real names) are not gonna hurt you...

Sorry for the rant.

TRG
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 4:04:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
Dave,

How were the neighbors after the attack?


Initially during the attack he said don't kick my dog and I told him fuck you your fucking dog bit mine while kicking the shit out of it. he called it and it retreated. the wife ran out crying and worried about my dog. i checked for blood (my dog was on her back) and the wife just kept apologizing it was her fault that she was coming outside and the wind blew the door open and their dogs have always gone nuts over my dog.
I walked home and abouot 2 hours later was going to get lunch I stopped by to make sure the dogs had their shots as my dog had 2 puncture marks. They said all were up to date and apologized again and again(both this time). I asked id the dogs were and they said bruised but no permanent damage and if they were in the same situation would have done the same thing. we shot the breeze for about 10 minutes (I really hadn't talked to them other than a friendly wave after living here 4 years) and I went on my way. I am not out to make enemies and I love my dog as my child and I just wanted them to know I would do what i had to proitect her and at least they understood.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 4:08:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Yard_Dog:
Nice shooting!

BUT...when you live in an *upscale* neighborhood and your neighbor's prized Lab that he's spent thousands on training as a retriever bites your dog that was taking a crap in his yard and you shoot his deserving ass, you're probably going to find out he's president of the homeowners association and a litigious ass hole attorney! It might be prudent to try some other options first.

However, if his dog attacks you.....blow the mutt away!!!

JMHO.


This is what you should be looking at " The 2 dogs attacked YOU and your dog" not just your dog.

If they will attack a person on the street then they are a menace and need to be put down.

What would happen if a child was walking a dog and the same thing happened?

If you felt threated and could not flee then you need to fight. plain and simple
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 4:24:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Handydave:

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
Dave,

How were the neighbors after the attack?


Initially during the attack he said don't kick my dog and I told him fuck you your fucking dog bit mine while kicking the shit out of it. he called it and it retreated. the wife ran out crying and worried about my dog. i checked for blood (my dog was on her back) and the wife just kept apologizing it was her fault that she was coming outside and the wind blew the door open and their dogs have always gone nuts over my dog.
I walked home and abouot 2 hours later was going to get lunch I stopped by to make sure the dogs had their shots as my dog had 2 puncture marks. They said all were up to date and apologized again and again(both this time). I asked id the dogs were and they said bruised but no permanent damage and if they were in the same situation would have done the same thing. we shot the breeze for about 10 minutes (I really hadn't talked to them other than a friendly wave after living here 4 years) and I went on my way. I am not out to make enemies and I love my dog as my child and I just wanted them to know I would do what i had to proitect her and at least they understood.


Well at least they weren't a-holes about it. You took the high road.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 4:48:19 PM EST

I cannot conceal my xd40 subcompact (I'm 5'7 150 lbs athletic build)


I'm a 5'6" ~130lb female, and I've CCed that exact model of firearm.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 5:18:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

Originally Posted By Handydave:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Max_Power:


In answer to your question, you don't need a different gun. You need a better holster.


...and some nads.



I went through testicular cancer 5+ years ago and in the process had 1 testicle removed. Maybe that is my problem, I only have half the balls I used to.


Ignore triburst1. He's still bitter that his mother busted him jerking off. It wouldn't be such a big deal, but he's 40 and it was Thanksgiving.


Yeah, but your mom said the load was worth it.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 5:19:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2007 5:20:56 PM EST by triburst1]
.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 5:24:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

Originally Posted By Handydave:

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Max_Power:
In answer to your question, you don't need a different gun. You need a better holster.

...and some nads.

I went through testicular cancer 5+ years ago and in the process had 1 testicle removed. Maybe that is my problem, I only have half the balls I used to.

Ignore triburst1. He's still bitter that his mother busted him jerking off. It wouldn't be such a big deal, but he's 40 and it was Thanksgiving.

Yeah, but your mom said the load was worth it.


Wow you really showed me... I'm surprised you didn't call me stupid too.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 5:42:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Laurel:

I'm a 5'6" ~130lb female, and I've CCed that exact model of firearm.


what holster did you use?
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 5:57:57 PM EST
It was actually kind of a jury-rigged get-up... I used my regular OC holster (Blade-Tech Kydex) but with a belly band kind of belt. Threw on a sweatshirt. I've also CCed the XD40 sub-compact in my jacket pocket or a purse.

Obviously you can't pull it off in a cycling jersey and spanky pants, but if you wear loose clothing, you can CC damn near anything - especially when it's just for a walk around the neighborhood.

For the record, I'd sure as shit be carrying, and probably open carrying if it were me. (Legal here, not sure about the laws where you are.) My dog's life (I have a little guy too) and my own personal safety are a little more important to me than what the neighbors think. That's just my $0.02.
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 6:58:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
OC is the way to go here. Carrying concealed is a whole other issue.


+1
Link Posted: 9/17/2007 7:07:50 PM EST
Jframe and a knife.

Just stab and slash the dogs next time.
Link Posted: 9/18/2007 2:17:36 AM EST
Ok, having read these posts I've reconsidered the SIG .380. Forget that and grab something more along these lines:

Link Posted: 9/18/2007 4:00:19 AM EST
I have seen the effect that pepper spray has on dogs and I'd recommend it as an alternative in neighborhoods. YMMV
Link Posted: 9/18/2007 4:31:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By RAIDERBOB:
I have seen the effect that pepper spray has on dogs and I'd recommend it as an alternative in neighborhoods. YMMV


In you opinion would the attacking dog that was clamped onto mine have retreated

if I sprayed it in the face or does it only work before the attacl?
Link Posted: 9/18/2007 10:06:08 AM EST
Pepper spray/OC may work really well for some dogs (as humans) bun not well for others. As a lasst resort, you should always carry your gun if you are comfortable with that and competant.

Repeat: Carry your F'n Gun!!!!
Link Posted: 9/18/2007 10:26:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
OC is the way to go here. Carrying concealed is a whole other issue.


Due a dog's extremly sensitive nose, OC is actually MORE effective on dogs than on people. I've had aggressive dogs run away even when I sprayed it on the ground in front of them. Just be careful not to tag your own dog.

And CCW when you walk you dog. Is CCW'ing with your dog andy different than CCW'ing anywhere else?
Link Posted: 9/18/2007 2:29:59 PM EST
A s&w 642 is perfect to carry when your trying to decide what to carry. pocket holster 10 bucks.

Petsmart sells pepper spray designed for dogs (green canister).

A surefire at night can by you some time too.

Stand your ground and most of these dogs will back down, don't let any animal approach your dog unless it is under control by their owner.

All the best man.
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