User Panel
User Panel
View Full Site
User Panel
|
Posted: 12/12/2005 1:11:34 AM EDT
[#1]
I dont know what damage it will do, I would guess the case cousions the breechface when slamming into the chamber, but............ why don't you turn the gun upsidedown and "stratle" the slide over the ejection port with your other hand to catch the bullet, then "ride" the slide back into battery?
Icon |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/12/2005 1:57:30 AM EDT
[#2]
With a 1911 it damages the fit between the hammer and the sear
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/12/2005 11:21:31 AM EDT
[#3]
I've always thought is was a no-no for 1911s but didn't really matter on better designed guns.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/12/2005 11:23:01 AM EDT
[#4]
 Better designed guns? Or guns with triggers that are so shitty to start with you'll never notice the damage? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/12/2005 1:16:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Years ago there was a post in the Tactics & Training forum of a guy who was taking a class on the west coast. He was in the habit of doing this with his SIG. The chances of it happening were one in a million, but the primer on the live round he was ejecting hit the ejector in just the right place and the round went off. He had some minor cuts and a bruised hand - certainly not the end of the world - but a good reason to just eject the round into the air with the ejection port pointed away from any part of the body. Regarding the habit of catching the live round in the air trick - it un-nerves a lot of range/safety officers. At the safety briefing of some matches they'll warn you not to do it. I do it all the time, but if I'm at a big match or shooting in front of an RO/SO I don't know, I'll usually just let the round fall to the ground. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/12/2005 2:35:13 PM EDT
[#6]
To drop the slide on an empty chamber is a bad thing to do, especially on a 1911. What happens is that there is no resistance of from the slide picking up a round and chambering it which causes a "jarring" of the pistol. This can cause a situation called "sear bounce" where the sear can jump out of the full cock notch, the hammer falls, and the sear hits and is stopped by the half cock / safety ledge/notch. This will ruin the mating surface of the sear therfore ruining the trigger job and making the pistol unreliable.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/12/2005 2:44:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Correct and if you slide slam your gun often it can loosen the slide to frame fit in much the same way spinning an open cylinder on a revolver and slamming it into battery will, if done often enough will screw it up. Also, once on a Bushmaster Bullpup a customer in the store I worked at let the bolt slam on an empty chamber and the mag release assembly cracked and the fell out. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/12/2005 4:00:07 PM EDT
[#8]
People tend to sound cocky when all they are is misinformed. The 1911 design, young one, is the foundation for 99% of pistol designs today. Been around for almost 100 years and is still going strong. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/12/2005 6:10:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Any sort of spring-assisted extractor, which most non-1911 designs are, has no problem with letting a slide go home empty. The spring will absorb the kinetic energy that the empty chamber cannot.
The problem with the 1911 type extractor is that it's so hard, it's brittle. When an empty slide slams home, the extractor will hum like a tuning fork. Nothing there to absorb the kinetic energy, thus it'll oscillate (sp?) like a baby tuning fork. The $64 question is: when is slaming it one more time too many???? One hundred? One thousand? I couldn't tell you, nor could most other folks, IMO. As a result, the slides on 1911s simply aren't dropped empty. Every other gun will most likely include an external extractor, i.e. no worries. My .o2 |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 1:37:45 AM EDT
[#10]
also happened to a friend of mine |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 5:58:06 AM EDT
[#11]
I know, I know. I was just taking a jab because I know how cocky 1911 lovers are.  The Model T Ford is also the foundation all automobiles after it are based on. Does that make it drive better than a Corvette Z06? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 6:23:06 AM EDT
[#12]
A few times here and there probably won't hurt anything.
Making a habit of dropping the slide eventually would have to cause some peening on whatever parts stops it's forward travel. Same goes for flipping the cylinder of a revolver closed.  Like slamming windows or doors shut, why do it if you don't have to? The reverse of that scenario, IMO, would be a weakened recoil spring, you get peening and battering of components during rearward movement of the slide. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 8:18:57 AM EDT
[#13]
This is one reason I prefer to order new guns vice buying one in the glass case. I have seen far too many shoppers let the slide slam home while looking at a gun. I was looking for a SA MC Operator a while back and the local shop that had one in stock was showing it to a customer who more than once locked the slide to the rear then pushed the slide stop down, letting it pound home. I made up my mind there and then I would not be buying *that* particular gun. Realistically, the guy probably didn't hurt the gun, but I am not interested putting a piece of life support equipment through unnecessary abuse.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 11:05:07 AM EDT
[#14]
Im still really trying to figure out the need to do that with ANY handgun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 1:10:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Ned Christiansen tested an extractor to 14,000 cycles without issue. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 1:21:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Yeah, you'd think if it was really an issue, 1911s would have a warning roll marked into the slide that says NO SLAM HOME EMPTY
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 1:24:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Then you've never had a 1911 with a precision fitted hammer and sear and then abused it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 1:27:08 PM EDT
[#18]
I haven't. The only 1911 I own and have ever owned is the SA GI .45. And I don't slam it on an empty chamber. Or any of my guns for that matter.
But I heard that's the real reason you don't slam it on an empty chamber. It'll mess up a 1911's custom tuning. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 4:00:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Well, shit, tell them to stop doing that!!!!! 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 4:10:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Clearly he & Mr. Murphy aren't as close friends as Murphy & I are then????? Seriously, just because someone got 500,000 miles out of a fill-in-the-blank vehicle doesn't mean *I* will get it, or everyone will, or even close to it, IMO. I have been told by folks who understand the engineering behind it put it in layman's terms, which I probably poorly executed here. As with everything else guns, we pays our money, we takes our chances. And that's what makes gun debate fun, no?But I'm still believing the slide harming the extractor theory until someone convinces me otherwise. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 4:23:00 PM EDT
[#21]
I wont do it to my metal framed gun like CZ75, Beretta, or 1911A1 etc..., but I have no problem doing it to my Glock 17. I think Glocks can handle it better than other guns based on the way the barrel locks up.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 4:57:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Honestly, I think with today's guns and metallurgical advances, slamming the slide on an empty chamber probably doesn't hurt a thing. Aside from a 1911 of course.
Just like a long time ago dry firing was a no-no because it would commonly break the firing pin. Thus the reason for snap caps or dropping the firing pin on spent cartridges. Nowadays everybody dry fires because firing pins are no longer made out of pot metal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 9:04:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Didn't have to, he's a fast learner. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 9:16:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Hmm good thing I read this thread, I've done this a few times with my new 1911--the only time I do it is if I'm done shooting at targets, let the slide release and holster it.
So, if I were to want to do that I should give retention on the slide so it doesn't slam? Or carry it back with slide back until I load up more mags? I think I've done this about hmmm 15-20 times :( I wasn't aware it was bad to do! *Cringe* EDIT: Does this affect external extractors as well like on my SW1911PD? Or is it simply the internal ones? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2005 11:23:25 PM EDT
[#25]
not the extractor you have to worry about, the issue with the extractor (standard) is if you drop a round in the chamber then drop the slide. The 1911 extractor is designed for the round to come up from underneath not from the front (as is the case with the AR).
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 4:34:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Shhhhhhh. You are not supposed to think for yourself. Just get in line and drink your Kool Aid. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 5:20:51 AM EDT
[#27]
If the US Military, SWAT and FBI was still using the Model T i would have to seriously take a look at why because maybe just maybe the are doing it for a reason.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 6:24:57 AM EDT
[#28]
It's not a good habit to get into.
Still, a few times here and there won't hurt anything except maybe on guns with match triggers like a Gold Cup. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 7:52:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Are they? Only some select special forces members opt for 1911s and LA SWAT. FBI uses .40 cal Glocks. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 11:41:29 AM EDT
[#30]
All of Delta uses 1911s. USMC DET-1 uses 1911s. The USMC MEU(SOC) uses 1911s. Just because LAPD decided to mega-publicize their Kimbers means they're the only ones that use it. And I don't think FBI SWAT and HRT would take too kindly to their Springfield Armory Professionals being called Grocks But hey, when the best of the best is still driving around in Model Ts.......
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 11:44:21 AM EDT
[#31]
Are you saying there is a 'better designed gun' than a 1911?  Popcorn in microwave. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 11:49:23 AM EDT
[#32]
My brother in law is a FBI agent in the Newark office and he's issued a .40 Glock. So when somebody says the FBI is using 1911s, that sounded wrong to me. If you also notice the original poster said "US Military" That's the whole kit and kaboodle to me and they use 9mm. And I said some select special forces use 1911s. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 1:35:52 PM EDT
[#33]
HRT, Firearms instructors and some other Fibbies use 1911s. They have some custom guns, a bunch of Springfields and some Les Baers. A lot of other fed LE types have 1911s too. Also, per Scott Reitz, the three units in LAPD that average the highest number of shootings per officer all issue .45 caliber 1911s. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 1:47:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Why doesn't the rest of the gun community get on the ball then if the experts are so in the know?
I think it's just personal preference. The .45 makes people more psychologically confident IMO and that can make all the difference in the world because it takes a cool collected confidence person to hit someone with a pistol. Also many people grew up with the 1911 so it's in their blood. Doesn't mean it's the best pistol platform. Just my opinions. Don't shoot me. Most fights are won and lost in the mind. The guy who hesitates or second guesses is going to lose. The guy who KNOWS he's going to win, wins. If a .45 gives you that psychological edge over a 9mm, then it's going to be more deadly in your hands. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 2:02:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Finally something truely intelligent in this thread! 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 2:49:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Because a 1911 isn't a pistol design than you can be proficient with the instant you get it. Look at it like this. For the sake of argument, we'll use WS6 Trans Ams to represent Glocks and an FIA WRC rally car to represent 1911s. We'll let "average guys" represent Glock shooters and their level of training and trained WRC drivers to represent someone (such as an LAPD SWAT officer) who is trained on the 1911. An average guy off the street can jump in the Trans Am and be relativly fast in it. It'll brake and handle well and be pretty easy to work on. Put the same guy in a WRC car and he's gonna get real dead real fast. Plus he won't be able to work on it. Throw the WRC driver in there and he's gonna do things with the car that most people don't even think are possible. Glocks are fine for someone who is only interested in guns as far as "I'm a cop and have to qualify whenever the rules say so" while 1911s are more geared towards people with the time, money and motivation to get the training they need to shoot their gun better than anyone else can shoot theirs. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 2:57:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Sorry, I won't let that happen again.
Interesting analogy. But as an owner of '99 Z28 6-speed, you can do some amazing things in a 4-gen LS1 f-body too and get yourself just as dead too. It takes practice and a lot of seat time to wring out anything near the performance envelope of the car. And I prefer Sigs to Glocks.  |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 12/14/2005 3:02:47 PM EDT
[#38]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 7:05:37 AM EDT
[#39]
Its the Dork at the gunstore gun test. They slam the action shut and then say "Man thats smooth" . If you could not do that how would the Dorks act like they new any thing about firearms. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 7:53:53 AM EDT
[#40]
Yes, line Special Agents are issued G22s. They can opt for a G23, 27, 26, 19, 17 or 21 as personal weapons. Agents who were issued Sigs (220s and 226s) before the G22 became standard have been grandfathered and can keep them. FBI HRT and the regional SWAT teams (one at each field office) use Springfield Armory 1911s (very nice ones I might add). And, yes in the military we issue a 9mm currently (except SOF as you noted), but the RFP has already gone out to purchase a new sidearm for all of DoD... in 45ACP.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 8:19:57 AM EDT
[#41]
Don't slam the slide on an empty chamber. THE END 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 8:25:26 AM EDT
[#42]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 12:50:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Took me a little thinking to realize what to do to avoid this during range sessions.
8 Rounds to a magazine for a 1911 right? Shoot 7. Leave the one in the chamber, reload mag, shoot 8, reload mag, shoot 8. Eh... eh? Is that thinking or is that thinking? That way the slide would never lock back period and there would be no reason to even USE the slide release. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 1:39:06 PM EDT
[#44]
admin inspection
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 2:30:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Ahh thanks for clarifying. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 2:41:43 PM EDT
[#46]
So I've been abusing my Kimber TLE/RL for the last year by letting the slide go forward with no round in it. Great, I never heard of that before
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 3:36:41 PM EDT
[#47]
+1 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2005 8:14:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Maybe you should READ your manual page 22 Number 4 |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/16/2005 4:04:25 AM EDT
[#49]
I am looking for a new pistol for when I get my CCW and this has been one the things kicking around my geeky little brain. I know someone who carries a Glock 26 in 9mm and it's a nice shooting little gun, but for some reason the 9mm just doesn't make me happy or confident that it will do what I want it to if things get ugly. Having a .40 S&W or a .45 ACP will just make me feel more confident. And I think you're right - that's half the battle. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/16/2005 4:06:57 AM EDT
[#50]
In response to Morbid_Icon: That's why. (Highlighted) I have always let the chambered round hit the ground and left it where it lay. The reason is, I have heard of people who chamber a single round multiple times (never specified how many times) and eventually they fire it, and they get a kB. They get a kB because the bullet was set back further and further into the case each time they chambered it and, the explosive pressure increases to an intolerable level. ETA: Maybe BigBore (was it him?) would be willing to extend the testing of his G21 to include releasing the slide on an empty chamber....many, many times. If he doesn't see this thread and a member who knows if it was him, could IM him this thread and the reason why, maybe he would consider it. Not to knock on the die-hard 1911 fans but, it would be one more plus for GLOCK if it didn't damage it. |
||
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
