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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/27/2005 7:13:21 PM EDT
Did a pistol match today. Sucked worse than last time. I've been having a lot of trouble hitting the target with my pistol. I can line the sights up exactly on target, sqeeze the trigger really slow, and it'll miss. Then I'll do the same sight picture on another target and hit it dead center. I've been practicing my trigger pull with squibs and dry firing. I just can't seem to get the gun to shoot consistently. This week I'm going to go sandbag it and see exactly where the sight picture places the round.

However, I have a new variable in determining whether it's the pistol or it's me. Today, nearly 15% of the rounds I fired keyholed through the target, at ranges as near as 5 yards. They went through the target completely sideways. I've been using the Winchester White box stuff from Wallmart. My friends were using it as well and had no problem. I'm getting fed up with this little pistol. I really like glocks for their ruggedness and simplicity, but I may sell it and go with a Walther P99 or something.

If anyone out there has had similar difficulties shooting consistently with their G23 and, particularily, have experienced keyholeing with factory ammo, I'd sure like to know.

Oh yeah, I bought the pistol Sept 11, 2001. I had ordered the pistol a few days earlier and it arrived that saturday. I know, odd coincidence. I was at the gun shop filling out paperwork just after it had happened watching the aftermath on the shop's TV.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 7:44:54 PM EDT
I ran a box of that (100) through my G23 last time out with no problems. Any crown damage?
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 7:45:16 PM EDT
call glock. Good customer service.
Link Posted: 8/27/2005 8:30:25 PM EDT
That sounds very odd. The only time I have ever heard of a known quality gun keyholing was due to ammo. How many rounds have you put through this gun? Were they all from the same lot? Perhaps there is something bad with that lot of ammo. Were you sharing the box with your friends or did they have their own box?

What, if anything has been done to the gun by way of modifications? Has anything out of the ordinary ever happened to it? Was it dropped? Or did you shoot a friends high powered reloads through it? Have you ever detail stripped the gun? Perhaps you put it togethor without a pin or something backwards.

And lastly, I just have to ask. Are you using the proper caliber ammo. Sorry, but I have to ask.

The first thing I would do is completely strip the gun and put it back togethor making sure all the parts are there. Then I would properly and thoroughly clean it. Then I would try different ammo. Try another box of Winchester, along with some Blazer and Blazer brass, and some Remington. If it continues to give you a problem, call Glock and they will take care of you. Even if the gun is past warranty I would not hesitate to call them.

Just to let you know, I have ten Glocks and have never had a problem like you describe. I have heard of it with underpowered reloads, but not with factory ammo.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 5:33:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 9:42:06 AM EDT
I've never seen WWB .40 keyhole, but I have seen a number of serious problems with that ammo. A friend of mine got several boxes of .45 that were so far out of spec as to be dangerous. The bullets were seated so deep that the case mouth was higher than the oglive of the bullet.

I have also seen a two .357 sig pistols keyhole. One was a Glock shooting WWB and the other was a Springer XD shooting Bear ammo. Both were at IDPA matches and when pasting targets, there was no question as to what was happening.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 9:42:46 AM EDT
1st I would try some different ammo then I would give Glock a call. They are a good company to deal with.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 9:57:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 10:03:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2005 10:03:40 AM EDT by cliffy109]

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Sept. 11, 2001 was not a Sat. It was a Tues.



Yup... and equally off the the topic, what a scene in the gun store that day. I walked into Galyans (large sporting good store with a good gun section). The store looked abandoned until I went up to the gun department. They were sold out of pistol ammo and nealy out of pistols, in spite of the 3 day waiting period. I was there to buy a shotgun for goose hunting that I had reserved a week earlier and could barely make it to the counter.

Back on topic, if you bought this gun on 9/11/01, you should keep it. Decades from now, you'll be glad you did. Imagine if you had a 1911 that your grandfather had purchased on December 7, 1941.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 10:12:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nwmanitou:
Oh yeah, I bought the pistol Sept 11, 2001. I had ordered the pistol a few days earlier and it arrived that saturday. I know, odd coincidence. I was at the gun shop filling out paperwork just after it had happened watching the aftermath on the shop's TV.


Has nothing to do with your problem; however September 11, 2001 was a Tuesday.

Have you shot lead rounds through it?
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 11:45:17 AM EDT
Because it got in saturday doesn't mean he didn't get to pick it up until tuesday.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 11:56:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2005 12:03:25 PM EDT by nwmanitou]
Oops, You guys are right. Sept 11 was a tuesday... I just checked my reciept for the gun ( I keep it in the case) I bought it on Sept 5. They didn't have it in stock so they had to order it. Said it would be in Saturday. Saturday rolled around and he told me that they had sent the wrong gun. Tuesday, my fiancee called me early in the morning and told me to turn on the TV. I watched the attack unfold. Then the gunshop called to tell me that my pistol was in. I borrowed a roomates car and drove down to pick it up.

Anyways...

I have never shot lead bullets from this gun. I have never shot reloads from this gun. I have only shot factory ammo through it. I think I shot a box of cci, once. Generally I shoot WWB and HSM when plinking and I carry Speer Gold Dot JHP in 165 gr. I'd say I have less than 3k rounds through it.

I have detail stripped it recently to do that .25 trigger job on it. That consisted of polishing a few parts. I did not dissasemble the striker. I also have a 3# connector and extended mag release. It has metroprolite night sights on it. I replaced the guidrod and spring with another factory rod and spring a couple months ago. Besides that and the grip stickers I have on it, it's stock.

I can't see any damage to the crown. I do not see any pitting or any other damage in the barrel or rifling. But then again, I'm not a gunsmith. Also, it could use a cleaning from this last match, there may be some damage concealed by the fouling.

I always thoroughly clean my pistol after each time I go shooting but we are in the middle of a move and my cleaning supplies are boxed up.


We were using IDPA cardboard targets. My friend was shooting the same ammo from the same store, but in a Walther P99. He had absolutely no problem with it. I think we had 8 people in our sqad shooting .45, .40, and 9mm. I was the only one not cutting neat little holes in the targets.The holes were definetly keyholed. I'm in the middle of Utah, it wasn't humid. The bullets were going in sideways. The SO (Safety Officer) joked that we could count the shots as two hits. I went through about 250 rounds, from 3 different boxes of the same ammo bought months apart. It was consistently keyholeing at least 1 per 10 rnds, and sometimes as many as 6 or 7 key holes in a 20rnd string.

After one of the other shooters pointed out that I was keyholeing I double checked the box and ammo what I was using. I even had the SO, who also happens to be my gunsmith, check out the ammunition. It was .40. I've never mistaken 9mm or any other caliber for .40SW (thankfully).

I am going to call Glock on monday and see what they have to say.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 12:07:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ikor:
Wonder if this might have something to do with the problem?

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=13&t=18220

In any case I would first try some high quality WW, Federal, etc. JHP stuff and see what the results were. If things did not improve, I would definitely call Glock and let them tell me what they want to do...my guess is they will want the gun back, but they might be able to get by with just the barrel for a close check to see what the problem is.

Have you fired any lead bullet loads from this gun since you have had it?



Ok, I read that thread and it seems they are describing what has been happening to me. I looked at the WWB ammo I had and I do believe it was Brass jacketed. When I go to the range I buy their stuff, I believe it's either blazer or HSM stuff. There have been times where I cut the red center out of the target with it. I buy the WWB stuff because the matches are usually 150 rnd minimums.

Holy crap, if I've been scoring so low at the matches because of that WWB stuff I'm gonna be pissed. That leads to another question. Does the glock hexagonal rifling have a harder time with the Brass jacketed bullets than traditional barrels? As mentioned above, my friend was using the same stuff in his walther p99 and was hiting bullseyes.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 12:43:17 PM EDT
Looks like you're there already, but be sure to try different types of ammo. There have been problems with white box.

BTW, is this the WinClean, regular white box, or the value pack?
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 3:12:10 PM EDT
just the 100rnd value packs.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 3:20:58 PM EDT
Split barrel.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 6:26:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Split barrel.



huh?
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:28:19 AM EDT
I think he's implying that the barrel is split somewhere, increasing the diameter. Therefore, it won't stabilize the bullet. IMO, check with other ammo brands, CCI would be a good alternative since that's what Glock Inc uses, and see if it still does it. If it does return it to Glock for work. They'll probably replace the barrel under warranty.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 5:32:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nwmanitou:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Split barrel.



huh?



I've seen one glock and a ruger do the key holing thing. Both had split barrels.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:50:27 AM EDT
Talked to glock this morning. I'm going to go to the range tonight to sand bag it and shoot a few boxes of different ammo. If the problem persists, Glock said to send it in.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:16:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 1:17:38 PM EDT by Mrrogers1]

Originally Posted By nwmanitou:
Talked to glock this morning. I'm going to go to the range tonight to sand bag it and shoot a few boxes of different ammo. If the problem persists, Glock said to send it in.



I would refrain from the WWB. I had been warned away before about that ammo but one of the guys over on the NFA board just illustrated yet another, costly reason to stay far away from it.

OUCH!
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:34:45 PM EDT
I took off work early and went to the range today. I spent 45$ on ammo. I had the range master shoot my pistol. The I shot it. Then I got the first slide bite I've ever had. I was thinking too much about seating the gun on the sandbag and lining up the sights to realize my left thumb was behind the slide. Luckily, I still have it, though it's bloodied up real good. I think my G23 knew I was contemplating cheating on it. Then I rented an XD40 despite my lacerated and bleeding thumb. I put up multiple targets and compared groups. I've come to a startling conclusion.....


I suck. Or at least my grip and trigger pull sucks.


Yeah, I have a terrible trigger pull. I've developed some really bad habits with my grip and trigger pull. It seems that the competitions have just drawn it out into the open and, unfortunately, reinforced some of those bad habits. The keyholeing must have been just that ammo.

With a little conscious effort and concentration on my grip I was able to get some good tight groups, even with the remainder of the WWB I had. I actually got better groups with my G23 than with the XD40.

So now the great retraining begins. I'm gonna have to spend a lot of time and money on ammo to retrain myself to shoot properly.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 6:38:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nwmanitou:
I took off work early and went to the range today. I spent 45$ on ammo. I had the range master shoot my pistol. The I shot it. Then I got the first slide bite I've ever had. I was thinking too much about seating the gun on the sandbag and lining up the sights to realize my left thumb was behind the slide. Luckily, I still have it, though it's bloodied up real good. I think my G23 knew I was contemplating cheating on it. Then I rented an XD40 despite my lacerated and bleeding thumb. I put up multiple targets and compared groups. I've come to a startling conclusion.....


I suck. Or at least my grip and trigger pull sucks.


Yeah, I have a terrible trigger pull. I've developed some really bad habits with my grip and trigger pull. It seems that the competitions have just drawn it out into the open and, unfortunately, reinforced some of those bad habits. The keyholeing must have been just that ammo.

With a little conscious effort and concentration on my grip I was able to get some good tight groups, even with the remainder of the WWB I had. I actually got better groups with my G23 than with the XD40.

So now the great retraining begins. I'm gonna have to spend a lot of time and money on ammo to retrain myself to shoot properly.



So did it stop keyholing with the other ammo?

I found this to be very helpful:
www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

Being a lefty, I found my shots going low and to the left. Turns out I was squezing my Glock too hard.
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