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Posted: 3/4/2005 9:04:49 PM EDT
I have been thinking of purchasing a 9mm pistol for SHTF (shit hit the fan)purposes and can not decide between a Berretta 92FS or a Glock 17.

I only want a 9mm and already own long guns for SHTF, I just want pistol for back up.

Beretta pro's for me:

US GI issue pistol, that means, loads of spare parts and mags in case of a shortage in a SHTF scenario. (US military contract was 500000 pistols)

Glock 17 pros for me:

-More reliable gun

-Easier to shoot, strip, and work on.

-Wide use of the glock 17 in law enforcement for availabiity of parts and mags, but probably less then the beretta, but I could be wrong.

Basically what I need to know is,

1.) How widespread is the GLock 17 in the US in terms of numbers.

2.) Are there holsters that will fit the GLock 17 for use on web gear like the 92FS.

3.) Would the glocks superiority in reliability
be enough to overcome the wider availability of parts and mags of the beretta in case of a SHTF scerario? If the berretta is in fact more widespead.
Link Posted: 3/4/2005 9:27:29 PM EDT
Get the Glock, mags might cost $6 more but it is worth it. Despit the bullshit "My Glock blew up" threads you might read here Glock is an excellent weapon. Whether they like Glock or not most here bag hard on the Berretta 92. Plus try shooting a berretta covered in dirt and mud. Fact is a Glock has less problems than most guns, and most of the "Glock blew up" threads can be explained by reloads, handloads, ultra-hotloads, shooting lead, not cleaning, and general stupidity like bumpfiring under water. Also someone will say get a Springfeild XD-9, dont. Some here on the board have a misplaced loyalty to the U.S. Gov's biggest welfare contract. Regardless do your research their is a broad range of info on almost any common gun here.
Link Posted: 3/5/2005 1:29:42 AM EDT
First, given all new factory parts including mags, I would not necessarily give the edge in reliability to the Glock, mud and sand or not. The Beretta had to pass some pretty serious testing before it was adopted, and has served extremely well in spite of what some may tell you. I have no idea how many thousands of Glocks, Sigs, Berettas and S&W 9mm pistols I have seen fire literally millions of rounds over the last twenty or so years on Police ranges, but I can say that all things being equal, I have seen a slight edge in reliability for both the Beretta 92s and the Sig 226/228 over the Glocks. That may make some Glock fanatics foam at the mouth, but it is what I have seen with my own eyes. Certainly I have seen NO indication the Glocks were any more reliable, as they can have their own peculiar issues as well.

The polymer frame of the Glock and some others does lend itself well to some spectacular stunts like dropping them out of helicopters and such, for what that may be worth, and you will never hear me say the Glock is a "bad" gun since I carry one regularly and own 6 with #7 soon to be added. I do say that there is no "magic" in it, nor in any other firearm out there.

You will be very well served with either of the two pistols you have listed. Given the criteria, I would most likely pick the Beretta, but the Glock does fit my hands a bit better, and a G17 is what rides in my BOB along with several mags.
Link Posted: 3/5/2005 4:47:51 AM EDT
Get the 17 and a few 33 round mags. That seems like a good SHTF gun.
Link Posted: 3/5/2005 11:00:15 AM EDT
Glock all the way.
Link Posted: 3/5/2005 11:00:56 AM EDT
Glock
Link Posted: 3/5/2005 3:59:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2005 4:38:43 PM EDT by shotgun]
Glock. I think Glock has more of the civilian and LE business so parts are going to be easier to come by. Hell in a really bad SHTF situation, you're more likely to come across an entire Glock and not just spare parts.


And by the way, this is ARFCOM...we know what SHTF means. Sometimes I think this site invented the term.
Link Posted: 3/5/2005 4:45:15 PM EDT
If your worried about SHTF, why are you selecting a 9mm, hell go with a 40 or .45. Glock can accomodate both choices, and hicaps are available.
Link Posted: 3/5/2005 6:33:15 PM EDT
Both guns are accurate, reliable, and well made. The important question is: which one do YOU shoot better. These two guns will feel vastly different in your hand. Most likely one you will like, one you will not. Which is which will depend on you.
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 9:42:52 AM EDT
First pistol? Get a Glock 19 and never look back. One of the lightest, best general purpose handgun with high round capacity.
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 11:11:11 AM EDT
get the glock
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 11:35:25 AM EDT
glock
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 7:15:41 PM EDT
Owning both, I say Glock. The beretta is very nice in the styling department, but give me a break if you are comparing the two in the reliability department.
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 7:18:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2005 7:19:53 PM EDT by Confederate]
I own both, have put thousands of rounds through both, have never had a problem with either. (I own two of each, which one is my favorite?...Good question.)
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 7:29:47 PM EDT
XD-40 4"
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 7:30:01 PM EDT
glock
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 7:57:48 PM EDT
Get the glock!!!!!!! ITheadbang.gif !!!!!!!! I have several differant handguns and in several calibers. The glock is one tuff hombre, Your choice on the 9mm I like ,and shoot 40, and have the ammo for SHTF, remember if your down the pistola your F***ed any who.



"Always cheat, always win, the only fair fight is the one you lose."
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 8:32:19 PM EDT
I have had both. The Glock I still have, the beretta got traded for a taurus pt99, wich is the same [essentially] as the beretta with the exception of having a frame mounted safety, just like a 1911. I would also vote for the glock. Go to a range that rents guns and shoot them both, if you don't have buddies that will let you shoot theirs.

Ignore the military contract, it does not help you except with magazines. There are gobs of m-16's out there, too, but that dosen't help us either. OTOH there are TONS of police trade in glocks on the market, way more than berettas. With common sense they are indestructable, and theres a tremendous amount of aftermarket support for the Glock. Just look at brownells or most any shooting competition, Glock accessories are second only to 1911 parts.

Now that the ban is gone, the XD is a vaid option, and many like it's feel and function over a glock. I expect it would be a great choice also, and I would have no qualms going to war with one if needs must, but then the aftermarket support just isn't there yet, heck FINDING extra magazines can be like pullng teeth.

So let me say it again, Buy the Glock
Link Posted: 3/7/2005 8:47:41 PM EDT
I've owned a Beretta, I say get the Glock!



Personal: I don't even LIKE Glocks and I say get the Glock.
Link Posted: 3/7/2005 8:52:03 PM EDT
Glock. Glock, and Glock again.
I don't like Glocks either, but I definatley prefer them to a Beretta.
I'd also say go .40 or .45.
Link Posted: 3/7/2005 10:09:20 PM EDT
Dittos
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 1:19:37 AM EDT
I have the Beretta 96F Centurion for the range and when SHTF, and I also carry Glock 27 for daily CCP. Both .40

Pics of my Guns
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:35:00 AM EDT
GLOCK! When it absolutely, positively has to work everytime. Dirty, clean, cold, hot, wet, it just doesn't matter.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 4:56:46 PM EDT
GLOCK !!!
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 4:57:40 PM EDT
XD
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 4:48:46 PM EDT
I like and own both Berettas and Glocks.


For SHTF
I'd go Glock just because there's inherently less shit to go wrong with it.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:33:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Researcher:
Get the 17 and a few 33 round mags. That seems like a good SHTF gun.



That's what I did today!


This is my very first Glock. G17 Olive Drab w/ two 17rd mags and three 33rd G18 mags.
I have a Colt...I have an HKUSP...I had a Sig....I always bagged on Glocks....
EVERYONE I know that shoots a Glock... all never had problems with them and when they let me shoot them I never had a problem. The only thing I didn't like was the way the shells ejected almost straight up on one I shot. It was irritating to have brass come back and hit me. I think it was just that particular gun because others I shot were fine.
I have known three people with Berretta 92FS pistols and all three had feed problems and said they were picky with mags and ammo. That's just my experience with this....

I would pick the Glock.


-John
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 3:22:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 3:24:24 AM EDT by Voldermortist]
Beretta or Sig 226. Glock can kiss my ASS! SEriously though, glock is a good gun, but I dont trust it with my life. I've had too many FTFs and FTE's in a single day to put any trust in it. My sig 226 outshot my glock 17.

glocks arent picky with mags because there's only two companies that make em. Glock and some other aftermarket company.


berettas are picky with mags because most mags available are just pure shit. The only one's trustworthy are mecgar and Beretta.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 3:10:27 PM EDT
I have the "infamous" G22 "kaboom" model. Well guess.... still no kaboom! It could be the first gun i go for in my safe(and I have a kimber .45 and sig 229 so what does that tell ya) I would go with the glock.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:02:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 4:05:07 PM EDT by DasRonin]
Glock

9mm first pick... .40 second pick. Would not consider .45 (though I love the caliber)


WHY... This may not be true every place but where I live I find it to be the case.

I can't easily find Beretta holsters or magazines. I am looking seriously into a contractor job in Iraq. I was told an M-4 and a Beretta would be provided. I have looked high and low for Beretta magazines and really can't find a supply that I have confidence that are mags I would count my life on (without spending some horendous price per mag). I really want some quality 20 rounders... but I also want a winning lotto ticket, and the chance of either is slim!!!

I can find Glock 9mm mags as easily as finding a QT or a 7-11... they are every place... both hi cap & 10 rounders. ... Check this out... call or go to all the gun shops in your area... ask for Beretta mags and ask for glock mags. I could be wrong due to regional differences, but I bet the Beretta will be near junk surplus or high price new in the wrapper, and of limited number. Ask about glock... and the answer could well be "What caliber, 10 rd or hi caps, new or used police/govt, and how many do you want?" JUST in case I have the ability to have a Glock and not a Beretta if I get the job (contract instructor for Iraqi police academy... I have seen Glocks used by Iraqi police recruits in my research) I have five new 33 round Glock 9mm mags for my lady to sent to me.

Glocks are less prone to rust than Berettas... one less thing to worry about! Holsters and accessories easy to find... and the gun is used by a ton of LE agencies.

9 mm because pound for pound you can carry more ammo for the 9mm. Since it is a defensive weapon, and not an offensive weapon like a rifle, it is a carry for close up or such use. Having a 1000 rounds of .45 to carry or 1000 rounds of 9mm, to lug around with everything else, the weight will be a factor, you and your vehicle can only carry so much... and that weight limit will be met sooner than you think. 9mm is plentiful, it should be easy to resupply... and cheap. If the SHTF turns in to a major OF! ...and you have to barter for ammo, supply and demand... .45 may be hard to locate and may have a premium value.

If you are able to scrounge ammo from military personnel... 9mm would be the pick. If you have LE connections you may more easily scrounge .40 caliber.

My thoughts... YMMV
Link Posted: 3/16/2005 6:11:24 AM EDT
glock
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 4:30:52 PM EDT
Glock. You only have one trigger pull as opposed to the beretta plus most people can hold on to it with one hand. Unless you can palm a basketball the beretta will take two hands to fire accurately, maybe. My 92f wouldn't hit in the same place twice reguardless of who shot it. Beretta's too big , too heavy and too unreliable to risk IMHO. Although I do like the cougar series. Same crappy trigger pull but at least I can reach the trigger. It may be an option.
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 6:08:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoughnutHole:
Glock. You only have one trigger pull as opposed to the beretta plus most people can hold on to it with one hand. Unless you can palm a basketball the beretta will take two hands to fire accurately, maybe. My 92f wouldn't hit in the same place twice reguardless of who shot it. Beretta's too big , too heavy and too unreliable to risk IMHO. Although I do like the cougar series. Same crappy trigger pull but at least I can reach the trigger. It may be an option.



Ernest Langdon must have not shot yours! Nor me! I was the MOST ACCURATE shooter here I used a Beretta 92G Elite. 4th fastest but MOST ACCURATE.
Link Posted: 3/18/2005 12:48:59 AM EDT
I have both and I love both. My beretta is more acurate but if I was hiking around in the mud and hiking in the desert (which I do.) and abunch of drunk cowboys come at me and my wife because they want to rape her I would take the glock it is acurate enough and I know it would go bang. If I was at my front door and some scumbag was dragging my kid towards a van and I had to shoot or never see my kid again and of course not hit my kid I would rather have my 92. I would say in both cases it hit the fan. Just a couple of Abraham Lincons from me.
Link Posted: 3/18/2005 4:18:45 PM EDT


Ernest Langdon must have not shot yours! Nor me! I was the MOST ACCURATE shooter here I used a Beretta 92G Elite. 4th fastest but MOST ACCURATE.

I'm very happy for you. I didn't say it was a bad weapon, just not up to the same pucker factor as the glock. The accuracy problem was the result of the pistol being too big to hold and the transition from double to single action trigger pull . I'm sure with a few thousand rounds these problems won't matter but the glock has a dao trigger, no safety to worry about, more ammo, less weight and bulk and out of the box reliable. The Beretta can be too with pratice time and ajustments.
I have owened both and kept the one that worked for me. YMMV.
Link Posted: 3/18/2005 6:19:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoughnutHole:


Ernest Langdon must have not shot yours! Nor me! I was the MOST ACCURATE shooter here I used a Beretta 92G Elite. 4th fastest but MOST ACCURATE.

I'm very happy for you. I didn't say it was a bad weapon, just not up to the same pucker factor as the glock. The accuracy problem was the result of the pistol being too big to hold and the transition from double to single action trigger pull . I'm sure with a few thousand rounds these problems won't matter but the glock has a dao trigger, no safety to worry about, more ammo, less weight and bulk and out of the box reliable. The Beretta can be too with pratice time and ajustments.
I have owened both and kept the one that worked for me. YMMV.



You need to try a 92G Vertec, it uses a 'short tirgger' and the grips about he same size as a G19 and the On G models the slide mounted thingy is ONLY a decocker, it springs back up just like a SIG (so no manual safety). Berettas and SIGs are 'out of the box' reliable too. I've put more than 20K through various Glocks, about 25K or so through Berettas and about 14K through SIGs and don't notice reliablility differences amoung the three. Take care of any of them and they'll take care of you. Don't believe the hype.
Link Posted: 3/19/2005 11:18:05 PM EDT
Allow me to list a situation for you:

You have a Glock, magazine inserted, round chambered.
You have a Beretta 92FS, magazine inserted, round chamber.

A man is in front of you. He is holding a gun. You immediatly point one of your two guns at the badguys head and pull the trigger.

The Glock clicks.
The Beretta clicks.

You have a bad primer and the round doesn't fire. You jerk the trigger again on one of the two guns.

The Glock-nothing
The Beretta-The man's head now has a hole in it.

The Glock will not be able to fire again without its slide being locked back to "cock" the weapon. This is a very bad situation to be in, as it requires you to rack the slide and cycle a new round. What if that round was the last round in your magazine? Your SOL and die.

The Beretta WILL be able to fire because you can pull the trigger, which controls the hammer. A second hit on the primer will make it go bang. You WONT have to cycle a new round or shove in a new mag. You will survive the situation and continue to live in the SHTF world.

The US Army has tested this weapon to the extreme, just as the US Army has perfected the M4/M16 they have done the same with the M9. The M9 will function with Beretta Factory Magazines, which I wouldn't trust buying third party magazines to begin with. Good luck, hope you survive.
Link Posted: 3/20/2005 7:31:06 PM EDT
hmm, I'll let you guys know when I finally have a primer problem in G17. I didn't have any yet. Any one ever had one?
Link Posted: 3/20/2005 7:32:39 PM EDT
and how about if you happen to drop your gun?

Beretta will blow your foot off.
Glock will not fire.

just my $0.02
Link Posted: 3/21/2005 2:03:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2005 2:04:03 PM EDT by Rose]

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
...Glock can kiss my ASS! SEriously though, glock is a good gun, but I dont trust it with my life. I've had too many FTFs and FTE's in a single day to put any trust in it...



Wow. Why do you think its a good gun if you've had too many FTF and FTE? Was something wrong with that gun?
Link Posted: 3/22/2005 9:14:47 PM EDT
Go with the glock
Link Posted: 3/22/2005 10:05:32 PM EDT
I have both.

The Beretta 92fs is a much nicer gun to stoot, for me. Balance, accuracy and obvously the trigger. The Glock 17 seems like it might last forever, but it also feels kinda cheap and low-end to me.
Link Posted: 3/23/2005 6:22:45 AM EDT
Just traded my 92FS for a Glock 27. I love the Glock!
Link Posted: 3/23/2005 9:14:52 PM EDT
Glock man Glock!
Link Posted: 3/23/2005 9:34:02 PM EDT
Since when does a beretta go off when you drop it? I'm no expert, but i'd say it's a safe bet that when the govt weapon trials were held, that kind of thing was probably checked?

I think I'd check out a used sig from Cdnn before I'd get a glock. Unless money is no object, then I'd stick with my USP.

I had a Glock, couldn't stand it. YMMV.

But if you have to choose between the two, go shoot them both first, and flip a coin if you can't decide. Both are good guns.


Link Posted: 3/24/2005 10:50:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2005 10:54:27 AM EDT by DocGun]
Best SHTF pistol: 9mm Sig P226, 15 + 1 rounds loaded with Winchester Ranger RA9T
Link Posted: 3/25/2005 5:39:08 PM EDT
I will be the odd ball and say go with a HK!


Also, when has there been a case of someone blowing there foot off with a berretta?


And, yes I have had hard primers before. Actually I had two in the same box of speer lawman
Link Posted: 3/26/2005 1:11:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2005 1:12:06 PM EDT by BerlinVet]
I recently sold my Beretta Limited Edition M9 and picked up a Glock 17. Both are superbly finished, reliable and accurate. The Beretta's action was smooth as glass while the Glock is more "business like" (if that makes any sense).

I've put approx. 550 rounds through the Glock in the last two days with no problems whatsoever. My 11 year old son did have multiple stovepipes due to his shooting stance so I switched him to an isosceles stance that enabled him to lock his wrists - end of problem. The Beretta is more forgiving when the shooter "limp-wrists" the gun due to the more rigid aluminum frame (as my son found out).

Treat yourself to a Glock 17 and a Beretta Elite II...
Link Posted: 3/29/2005 10:20:07 PM EDT
Glock.
Link Posted: 4/4/2005 9:03:02 PM EDT
*Carefully inserts head* 1911..*Retreats*
Yeh the glocks a good gun, but the 1911 has been tested over and over. Then again it isnt a 9mm unless you get one of Para Ordance's 1911 that fires 9mm.
I personally carry a 1911, a Century Arms clone that ive customized with a whole lot of Wilson parts, its a great firearm.
For SHTF problems, got some 15rnd mags for it, and then ive got my other stuff.
But if i had to stick to glock or beretta, id say glock. Austrian's know their stuff, italians know pasta.
Why I say glock? Im not a fan of plastic, but those guns follow the best principle out there "Keep it simple stupid".
So yeh, glock if it MUST be 9mm. But if you want to use .45ACP instead, get a 1911.

PS:One idea you might want to consider, is a glock and then getting those Mec-Tec carbine conversions, just to add even more use to the thing.
http://www.parts.cc/glock/Parts_Acc/Mech_Tech_Carbine.htm
Link Posted: 4/4/2005 10:19:34 PM EDT
Glock!
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