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Posted: 7/5/2010 7:24:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2010 7:34:32 AM EDT by winddummy82]
should dash cams be mandatory to preserve our constitutional rights or would they place too much  burden on law enforcement agencies?
related thread
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:26:24 AM EDT
I'm all for them. They've saved my ass several times when some whiney pukes claims I did something I didnt do.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:29:06 AM EDT
More dashcams, and less video being lost/not released please.



Where's that A&E footage from Detroit?
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:31:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:32:06 AM EDT
Dashcam legality should be treated exactly as an average citizen filming a cop during work.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:34:30 AM EDT


Many states would consider that felony wire tapping.
That's the problem with dashcams, they're ok for the popo to use (unless they need to be lost) but not us serfs.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:37:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GumbyTM:
Dashcam legality should be treated exactly as an average citizen filming a cop during work.


Yes.

That said, it has been very useful for the police, overall.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:50:18 AM EDT
I like the idea. Theoretically, it protects both parties.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 7:51:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SouthEndXGF:
I like the idea. Theoretically, it protects both parties.


i highly concur!
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 10:25:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By txcop893:
I'm all for them. They've saved my ass several times when some whiney pukes claims I did something I didnt do.


exactly! works better for everyone involved!

none of this he said she said bullshit! its all on tape!
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 10:29:58 AM EDT
Dash cams protect the truth, and only the truth should be admitted in a court of law. Therefor dash cams help bring truth to the courts.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 10:32:15 AM EDT
I think they are a good idea...

The save tax dollars by eliminating bullshit claims quickly

Provides evidence in DUIs, or if a cop is shot during a stop etc.

Helps eliminate some of the bad cops. ( I have no problem with cops, but every organization has some bad eggs)
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 10:34:32 AM EDT
I like accountability....
I dislike video taping...

This is the first time in a long time I went with pie .
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 10:49:13 AM EDT
expensive as hell for the popo versions- 5=8k each.
PITA too....
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 10:55:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 10:56:56 AM EDT
More information is a good thing.  Sunshine is the best disinfectant and dash cams and big brother will go a long way toward preventing police abuse of power.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 10:58:28 AM EDT
I love the dash cam concept. I think they should be made more widely available. If I were in LE and could supply my own I'd put an HD one in to have even more data on my side. I have many friends in LE who'd probably be unemployed or in another field if it weren't for those little buggers and the mic's in their uniforms. It has blown many a liar out of the water in the courtroom and it has gotten bad apples off the street on both sides of the law in many instances.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 10:59:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 10:59:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:03:33 AM EDT
They should be mandatory.  An officer turning it off during a stop should be punished somehow... reprimand in their file at least.  It should also be made clear that not only can citizens take pictures and video of the police but that doing so is encouraged.  Any officer found intimidating anyone to not take pictures or video of them should be fired.





Now you can of course limit how close people can get to crime scenes...  but you can't tell them to stop filming from the place they can legally be.  Filming someone in a public place is not a violation of privacy and does not violate wiretapping laws.  Naturally bathrooms, changing rooms, and the like are not considered public places.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:03:50 AM EDT



Originally Posted By txcop893:


I'm all for them. They've saved my ass several times when some whiney pukes claims I did something I didnt do.


Exactly.

 



Plus they make for some damn fine TV.







Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:04:08 AM EDT
Why not put them in every new car sold?Can have vehicle basics (speed,braking,etc) in a pop up as well.

Would make accidents a lot easier to figure out,and you wouldn't be able to argue you weren't speeding/weaving/whatever,because the footage would be there.Just run a continual loop.

Would cover everybodys 6.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:13:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:15:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Master_of_Orion:
They should be mandatory.  An officer turning it off during a stop should be punished somehow... reprimand in their file at least.  It should also be made clear that not only can citizens take pictures and video of the police but that doing so is encouraged.  Any officer found intimidating anyone to not take pictures or video of them should be fired.


Now you can of course limit how close people can get to crime scenes...  but you can't tell them to stop filming from the place they can legally be.  Filming someone in a public place is not a violation of privacy and does not violate wiretapping laws.  Naturally bathrooms, changing rooms, and the like are not considered public places.


Systems cost between 5 to 10k.


This is how I do it. Beginning of shift I test the system by activating it, start the recording, state my name, date, time and beat. After a traffic stop, I do not turn it off till I go 10-8, dispatch responds, either I pull off or the stopped vehicle leaves then I hit the stop button.

If the video or my personal audio tape runs out before the stop is completed I notify dispatch to log it.



Do you notify you are audio taping on a stop?
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:15:41 AM EDT



Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:


Without them, where would we get the great taser videos??  Hmmmmmmmmm??


bingo, TBK1. Many a fun evening have I spent on youtube watching instant karma taser vids.







 
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:18:14 AM EDT
Keeps LEO's straight.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:22:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2010 11:22:52 AM EDT by Bama-Shooter]
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:23:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:25:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:27:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2010 11:28:44 AM EDT by winddummy82]
Originally Posted By SSFeldjager:
Keeps LEO's straight.


your right!!! nobody ever falsely accuses leo of brutality!

it works both ways clown
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:30:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:33:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:38:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 11:42:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By SSFeldjager:
Keeps LEO's straight.


Reveals the truth about lying scumbags too.  What do you suppose the ratio of crooked cops to lying scumbags on the street is?  


I know when the person is informed when they come into complain that the situation was video/audio recorded, they usually get up and leave.


I bet it's hard to get up and leave in a dignified manner, no?  

And here they thought it was "win the lawsuit lottery day" for them.  


We had one before I started the new job who came in to complain was informed about the video/audio, was told their story did not match the recordings, the person then went ahead with the complaint, signed the forms, arrested and convicted for filing a false report.



We have this same thing happen at least twice a year. I'd say alt least once a week I get either a walk-in or a meet complainant call to report some type of officer conduct issue, and when I tell the complainant that I'm enroute to my office to watch the video of the contact...........they ALWAYS say......"Nevermind".
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 12:10:21 PM EDT



Originally Posted By winddummy82:



Originally Posted By SSFeldjager:

Keeps LEO's straight.




your right!!! nobody ever falsely accuses leo of brutality!




it works both ways clown


I fully agree.  It keeps cops honest knowing they are being recorded and protects them from false accusations.



 
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 12:13:56 PM EDT
It protects both parties.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 12:17:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Master_of_Orion:
They should be mandatory.  An officer turning it off during a stop should be punished somehow... reprimand in their file at least.  It should also be made clear that not only can citizens take pictures and video of the police but that doing so is encouraged.  Any officer found intimidating anyone to not take pictures or video of them should be fired.


Now you can of course limit how close people can get to crime scenes...  but you can't tell them to stop filming from the place they can legally be.  Filming someone in a public place is not a violation of privacy and does not violate wiretapping laws.  Naturally bathrooms, changing rooms, and the like are not considered public places.


Systems cost between 5 to 10k.


This is how I do it. Beginning of shift I test the system by activating it, start the recording, state my name, date, time and beat. After a traffic stop, I do not turn it off till I go 10-8, dispatch responds, either I pull off or the stopped vehicle leaves then I hit the stop button.

If the video or my personal audio tape runs out before the stop is completed I notify dispatch to log it.



10k is cheap insurance.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 12:27:20 PM EDT
I remember reading somewhere that "excessive use of force" complaints went down something like 85% in whatever city had started using the video cams.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 12:32:13 PM EDT
I like mine when the piece of shit works.  Damn thing will turn on by itself half the time.  

You don't want to hear me singing to the radio or yelling to myself when someone takes too long to pull over on a traffic stop.
It usually sounds like this "Ah what the F$%& is this guy doing?  Don't you see the F@#$ing flashing lights, asshole?"  I really have to stop talking out loud in the cruiser.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 12:41:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mcnizzle:
I like mine when the piece of shit works.  Damn thing will turn on by itself half the time.  

You don't want to hear me singing to the radio or yelling to myself when someone takes too long to pull over on a traffic stop.
It usually sounds like this "Ah what the F$%& is this guy doing?  Don't you see the F@#$ing flashing lights, asshole?"  I really have to stop talking out loud in the cruiser.




You sound like me.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 1:05:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By usp45c:
I remember reading somewhere that "excessive use of force" complaints went down something like 85% in whatever city had started using the video cams.

And false accusations go down something on the order of 95% once the first few get prosecuted.  I WISH we had the damn things, My wife bought me a little digital videp recorder that looks like (and is) a pen.  Sits in my shirt pocket, and a push of the button on the top gives me 10 minutes of Video and audio protection.

Link Posted: 7/5/2010 1:22:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mcnizzle:
I like mine when the piece of shit works.  Damn thing will turn on by itself half the time.  

You don't want to hear me singing to the radio or yelling to myself when someone takes too long to pull over on a traffic stop.
It usually sounds like this "Ah what the F$%& is this guy doing?  Don't you see the F@#$ing flashing lights, asshole?"  I really have to stop talking out loud in the cruiser.




The talking outloud is not a problem. However if you start to answer yourself, I think vacation time or retirement are in order.







Roy
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 1:38:10 PM EDT
Dash cam saved me $165 and 2 pts when I was arguing with officer about what he saw.  (claimed I ran a red light)  When the judge asked to see the tape the officer said it wasn't very clear and wasn't sure he could find it. When he did show it to the judge, the judge threw the case out because the video showed nothing. couldn't even see my vehicle in the video when the light changed. That video was digital and crystal clear. No mistakes, no he said she said. Just the facts. I like it. I am in public anyway so it doesn't matter.

After sitting in the courtroom for 1/2 hour before my case (curious to see how things operated) I honestly don't know how you guys deal with some of these retards
Thanks to the good ones. (the fucker that gave me the bullshit ticket....I hope you rot in hell)
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 1:44:28 PM EDT
Positives:protect citizen's rights, corroborate officer testimoney, augent officer training, aid in identifing criminals

Negatives:might make officer second guess level of force applied.


I think the positives win
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 2:01:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
Positives:protect citizen's rights, corroborate officer testimoney, augent officer training, aid in identifing criminals

Negatives:might make officer second guess level of force applied.


I think the positives win


Please explain this.  

If I understand you correctly you think it may make an officer hesitate to use the amount of force necessary to effect the arrest?

Based upon my experience of approx 12 years of using a dash cam (18 as an LEO) I have never once even started to hesitate on the amount of force to apply or not apply based upon the fact I was on video/audio.  

In fact It re-assures me that I will not be questioned on why I used force.

The only negative I can think of is the cost.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 2:02:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rdsr:
Originally Posted By mcnizzle:
I like mine when the piece of shit works.  Damn thing will turn on by itself half the time.  

You don't want to hear me singing to the radio or yelling to myself when someone takes too long to pull over on a traffic stop.
It usually sounds like this "Ah what the F$%& is this guy doing?  Don't you see the F@#$ing flashing lights, asshole?"  I really have to stop talking out loud in the cruiser.


The talking outloud is not a problem. However if you start to answer yourself, I think vacation time or retirement are in order.

Roy
Answering yourself isn't that bad.  What's bad is stopping and saying to yourself, "What did you just say?"
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 2:02:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2010 2:56:45 PM EDT by Banjaxed]
.........................
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 2:31:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SSFeldjager:
Keeps LEO's straight.


sometimes I get a car with a camera and sometimes I don't. I act the same either way.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 2:33:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By SSFeldjager:
Keeps LEO's straight.


Reveals the truth about lying scumbags too.  What do you suppose the ratio of crooked cops to lying scumbags on the street is?  


I know when the person is informed when they come into complain that the situation was video/audio recorded, they usually get up and leave.


I bet it's hard to get up and leave in a dignified manner, no?  

And here they thought it was "win the lawsuit lottery day" for them.  


It actually seems like people believe the shit they shovel.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 2:35:37 PM EDT
Dash cam required.  If dash cam "malfunctions" or "the tape is lost" all traffic cites on the "lost" tape are void.  Might have to expand this depending on how bad the "lost/malf" problem becomes.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 2:36:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Master_of_Orion:

Originally Posted By winddummy82:
Originally Posted By SSFeldjager:
Keeps LEO's straight.


your right!!! nobody ever falsely accuses leo of brutality!

it works both ways clown

I fully agree.  It keeps cops honest knowing they are being recorded and protects them from false accusations.
 


95% of what I do does not happen in front of the car anyway.  If I was going to abuse my power, the side of the road for all to see isn't the best place.
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