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Posted: 10/28/2006 6:39:40 PM EST
Well, I suppose I deserve this much after breaking out the lock picking DVD and allowing them to tinker with my lock picking set tonight…
Now, what can I do t fortify my home locks to make it harder to break in? it literally took us 10 seconds to rake the lock and have it open after we got the hang of it!
Not that I’m worried that my friends will break in, but I am more so worried about people who I do not know being able to gain access to my home so easily.
The locks in question are schlage deadbolts and handle locks.
Anyone have a brand that is more difficult to pick? Or is this just a fact of life?
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:40:30 PM EST
did you DRAW DOWNTM?
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:44:56 PM EST
Get ANSI Grade 3 locksets. If you have the usual contractor Grade 1 shit on there, it's quite easy for even a novice to pick.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:46:32 PM EST
Depends on how much money you have to throw at the issue. Ther are locks that are pretty much pick proof, but special key-ways and side bittings cost lots. They are designed for the comercial market. I am a locksmith at work, we use both Medeco bi-axial, and Schlage Primus key systems. If you know someone in the business they could probably get you a few locks for your house and keys. Of course with locks that good, you would need to upgrade your doors as well, and windows, etc.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:47:02 PM EST
Go to youtube and look up Lock Bumping. No lock, no matter how expensive is safe. Chains and bolts are better that the most expensive lock. A beginner Lock Bumper can get in as fast as you can with your key.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:47:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2006 6:48:21 PM EST by drrocket]
My inlaws are all locksmiths. I've seen them pick locks so fast. It was slightly slower than having a key!

I asked my BIL what lock he couldn't pick. He recommended Medeco. Something about the pins coming in a two angles making it a 1 or 2 hour picking job. If a homeowner lost their key and security card, my BIL would recommend just drilling out the locks.

So now all my locks are keyed to a single key and they are all Medeco.

Remember though, most houses today are wood frame with stucco or wood board. A chainsaw in less than a minute can cut a doorway into your house.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:47:40 PM EST
Fact of life. With the commercial Schlage locks at work, we've had someone enter the building like they weren't even there several dozen times. When I finally put deadbolts in my house last October I bought commercial quality locks from a family friend that was a locksmith for high security facilities around DC for almost 40 years. Even with the expensive $125 each ANSI grade deadbolts he recommended I can still get in with a bump key in less than 30 seconds. Locks are a joke, and I still can't believe a company hasn't introduced locks that actually work well. That seems to be a huge untapped market.z
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:49:03 PM EST
OK, so you showed your friends a lock-picking instructional DVD, then lent them your lock-picking tools, and are somehow surprised that they were able to pick your locks?

Wow.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:49:58 PM EST
Would the newer digital combination locks be a better idea?
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:51:07 PM EST
if the locks can't be picked a cinder block thru a window also works
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 6:52:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By drrocket:
My inlaws are all locksmiths. I've seen them pick locks so fast. It was slightly slower than having a key!

I asked my BIL what lock he couldn't pick. He recommended Medeco. Something about the pins coming in a two angles making it a 1 or 2 hour picking job. If a homeowner lost their key and security card, my BIL would recommend just drilling out the locks.

So now all my locks are keyed to a single key and they are all Medeco.

Remember though, most houses today are wood frame with stucco or wood board. A chainsaw in less than a minute can cut a doorway into your house.



Our system has six angles and a pattented key-way (Blank).
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:05:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By drrocket:
My inlaws are all locksmiths. I've seen them pick locks so fast. It was slightly slower than having a key!

I asked my BIL what lock he couldn't pick. He recommended Medeco. Something about the pins coming in a two angles making it a 1 or 2 hour picking job. If a homeowner lost their key and security card, my BIL would recommend just drilling out the locks.

So now all my locks are keyed to a single key and they are all Medeco.

Remember though, most houses today are wood frame with stucco or wood board. A chainsaw in less than a minute can cut a doorway into your house.



locks are only as good as the door/jamb theyre securing.
and with enough time, any lock can be bypassed.

mebbe its just me, but when i was learning to pick, my earliest sucesses were against medecos. last time i had to pick a medeco it probably took under 45 seconds. mebbe im lucky/good, or mebbe older medecos arent as secure as the stuff out today, but i wouldnt rely on em anymore than your typical schlague..
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:13:20 PM EST
Brand name alone cannot determine the security of the lock. All manufacturers have a series of different tiers from plain old house lock/construction core to high security comercial/government locks. Of course no lock can make up for a weak physical structure. The idea is to make picking so close to impossible that a perp would either give up or try alternate means of gaining access.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:20:49 PM EST
the only concern i have is over a silent entry...
it would be nice to have them at my door for atleast a few minutes so neighbors can notice.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:23:30 PM EST
Bumping locks, most of them can be picked in seconds:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=511375
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:27:54 PM EST
Wow. My paranoia doesn't need this thread!!

I dutifully went through my house and replaced all the locks with new knobs and deadbolts. Nice(r) high(er) end Schlages, Used nice long hardend screws that go in to the house frame, etc etc. Though my doors are fairly secure.

So this doesn't help me feel safe now! Plus, a couple friends of mine are into lock-picking, and one is pretty good with the picks. the other picked up one of those little gun-type ones. They both mentioned how they can get into cars and their house with the picks.

Sigh...oh well. Nothing can be that secure I guess. It's like I've been told by lots of people:

'Locks just keep the honest people out.'
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:29:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2006 7:29:49 PM EST by Tannim]

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Go to youtube and look up Lock Bumping. No lock, no matter how expensive is safe. Chains and bolts are better that the most expensive lock. A beginner Lock Bumper can get in as fast as you can with your key.


DING DING DING DING

Locks are only good for honest people now.

They make a door knob combinatin lock. That's about as good as it gets
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:34:03 PM EST
Anybody know of a "swipe-card + fingerprint" lock?

Yes, I know you can defeat biometrics (I watch mythbusters too). It just strikes me as unlikely that "street thug level" people would bother faking a keycard and nabbing your prints.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:34:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2006 7:39:41 PM EST by Wingman26]
Back when I was a Deputy I investigated quite a few burglaries, I never saw a lock that had been picked, not once!

Here are the basics:
The most common entry is by kicking a door, it's quick and easy, no special skills required.
The vast majority of burglars are complete amateurs, usually very young, under 25.
Loud alarms scare the hell out of them, many times they have gotten in and when the alarm went off, they ran off. If they go in a main entry door there is usually a delay before it goes off, I've seen them drop the items they have stolen right where they were standing when the alarm went off.

It is very rare to see a burglary done by anyone who could be considered a professional, in several years of experience I never saw one, and if they are real professionals, they are hitting the big expensive houses. If a professional picks your house, he will get in if he really wants to, your best defense is to make it as difficult as possible, he might decide it's too much trouble.

Funny story, there was this young guy, maybe 19-20 got picked up for burglary, like most of these guys he couldn't afford a lawyer, they spent their money on dope, so he got a court appointed lawyer, got bail set, talked some relatives into putting up the bail money, while out on bail he burglarized his court appointed lawyer's house! They don't get much dumber than that, for some reason none of the local lawyers wanted to represent him, the court really had to pull in some favors to get anyone to represent him! He was a real dimbulb!
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:41:58 PM EST
As opposed to breaking the glass out of your French Doors, unlocking the lock and walking right in?

Unless your building is concrete block, no windows, steel framed security doors, they are going to get in.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:42:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wingman26:
Back when I was a Deputy I investigated quite a few burglaries, I never saw a lock that had been picked, not once!

Here are the basics:
The most common entry is by kicking a door, it's quick and easy, no special skills required.
The vast majority of burglars are complete amateurs, usually very young, under 25.
Loud alarms scare the hell out of them, many times they have gotten in and when the alarm went off, they ran off. If they go in a main entry door there is usually a delay before it goes off, I've seen them drop the items they have stolen right where they were standing when the alarm went off.

It is very rare to see a burglary done by anyone who could be considered a professional, in several years of experience I never saw one, and if they are real professionals, they are hitting the big expensive houses. If a professional picks your house, he will get in if he really wants to, your best defense is to make it as difficult as possible, he might decide it's too much trouble.

Funny story, there was this young guy, maybe 19-20 got picked up for burglary, like most of these guys he couldn't afford a lawyer, they spent their money on dope, so he got a court appointed lawyer, got bail set, talked some relatives into putting up the bail money, while out on bail he burglarized his court appointed lawyer's house! They don't get much dumber than that, for some reason none of the local lawyers wanted to represent him, the court really had to pull in some favors to get anyone to represent him! He was a real dimbulb!


The best thing to prevent burglaries would be to shoot as many burglars as possible, thus thinning the herd of possible criminals actually willing to break into houses.

Unless you have a steel framed house, with EVERY entry reinforced, dual-pane lexan and steel windows.... you are shit out of luck. Keep your important stuff in the gunsafe.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:59:23 PM EST
That's right, locks keep honest people honest.

A rock through the window is easier, faster, cheaper, (etc.) than sitting there trying to pick a lock that you may or may not be able to open right away. The more time you spend by sitting outside the building fumbling with the lock, the higher the chance is of someone seeing you. Walk over to the door, pry it open quickly. Toss a rock through a window, walk out the door. Go through an open window, or an unlocked door.


There are numerous ways of entering a building that are preferred over picking locks. Yet lock picks still remain listed as illegal "burglary tools" for civilian possession. (State laws vary)

Go here:
www.lockpicking101.com
Ask the same general question there, that you did here.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:05:43 PM EST
is buying bumping keys and a "tomahawk" legal?
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:08:23 PM EST
It's probably easier to break down most doors than to pick the lock. I accidentaly took out my unlocked front door by running into it lightly (I tried to open it as I was running, and the latch became stuck).
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:08:51 PM EST
This is why I have big dogs and guns.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:11:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
This is why I have big dogs and guns.
.

+1
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:12:38 PM EST
Well according to this thread anyone can get into any grade lock in seconds.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:17:06 PM EST
I back my locks up with an alarm and a pair of APBT's......The dogs *probably* won't eat you, but most folks can't figure out the difference between barking because they're happy to see you pit bulls and barking because you're dinner pit bulls....
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:24:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
This is why I have big dogs and guns.


Yep, several hundred pounds of slavering, drooling fang snapping dogs seem to deter burglers quite well for some strange reason. And if they don't? Well, I'd bet that there will be plenty of blood for DNA to be pulled from.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:28:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
This is why I have big dogs and guns.


Yep, several hundred pounds of slavering, drooling fang snapping dogs seem to deter burglers quite well for some strange reason. And if they don't? Well, I'd bet that there will be plenty of blood for DNA to be pulled from.


This is true, better than an alarm system. Once they hear the barking/growling I would imagine they would rethink the whole deal.
I amy be wrong but it scares everyone except the pizza guy. My dogs love him.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:35:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
This is why I have big dogs and guns.


Yep, several hundred pounds of slavering, drooling fang snapping dogs seem to deter burglers quite well for some strange reason. And if they don't? Well, I'd bet that there will be plenty of blood for DNA to be pulled from.


This is true, better than an alarm system. Once they hear the barking/growling I would imagine they would rethink the whole deal.
I amy be wrong but it scares everyone except the pizza guy. My dogs love him.


Dogs are smart like that, "the guy with the food in the box is here, the guy with the food in the box is here" bark they do
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:42:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
is buying bumping keys and a "tomahawk" legal?


Buying lock picking/oriented items isn't illegal. Being in possession of them is unless you are "licensed" to have them. (Locksmith)

And no, they won't come knock down your door because you bought something. It's only when they catch you with them that you get in trouble.

As for the bump keys... I don't think you will get in trouble with them. AFAIK, they are not listed as illegal. If a LEO sees it and asks you what it is, as long as you don't tell him "lock picking" you won't have anything to worry about.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:48:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By BLY:
-snip

If a LEO sees it and asks you what it is, as long as you don't tell him "lock picking" you won't have anything to worry about.


What this? This is my house key.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:50:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:28:49 PM EST
Where can I buy a good-very good Medeco deadbolt online? Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:58:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
This is why I have big dogs and guns.


Yep, several hundred pounds of slavering, drooling fang snapping dogs seem to deter burglers quite well for some strange reason. And if they don't? Well, I'd bet that there will be plenty of blood for DNA to be pulled from.


Ask my friend with a german shephard that he kept inside his house how good a guard dog it turned out to be. Hint, the kids came back twice because they didn't steal all of his guns the first time and there wasn't a drop of blood anywhere in the house.

On the show "It Takes Thief" the guy routinely breaks into houses that have large dogs. If your dog is a "pet" and not a trained "guard dog" there will be no fang snapping and blood. Does your "pet" routinely tear into every guest you have in the house? I doubt it. So what does the guy from "It Takes a Thief" do? He acts like a guest. When he gets into the house he calls for the dog, talks to the dog, says it's a good dog, throws it some food, and then locks it in a room or outside the house. No more "fang snapping growling dog" to deal with.

Also on the show his most common ways of getting in are unlocked doors, unlocked windows, smashing a small pane of glass on an entry door and unlocking it, smashing a garage door window and pulling the emergency open handle and walking in through the garage since most people don't lock that door, kicking in a door, and if all else false throwing something laying near the house through a smaller window. He's never once "picked a lock". The best show was when he broke into a small town police station, while the dispatcher was there, and robbed the gun storage and evidence room. He got too greedy there and got caught but if he had left 20 seconds earlier he would have gotten away. No locking picking getting into the police station either.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 9:16:44 PM EST
LOL
Locks only keep honest people out.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 9:17:57 PM EST
My house has electronic locks.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 9:30:14 PM EST
I've been to lots of houses to put new locks on and to change locks, because someones house got broke into..........out of the thousands of houses i've been to, i've never been to one that got broke into by way of the criminal picking the lock. Spend as much as you want on deadbolts, knobs, chains, whatever.......it's a false sense of security. Keep your schlage locks, reinforce the door frame and use extra long screws instead of the 1/2 inch - 1 inch screws that come with your locks. Also put locking knobs on your bedroom, home office, closet, etc. Get an alarm system so they won't be able to spend as much time in your house. And keep everything of importance and value in a safe that is installed right.

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