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Posted: 7/22/2010 3:55:02 AM EST
I was talking politics with some of the guys at the fire house last night, and one of the m starts talking about how the .gov is preparing themselves to be able to seize everyone's gold when the dollar takes a shit. It got me to thinking, since I finally have money in the bank for the first time since I bought a house 4 years ago. What good is that money gonna do me when a loaf of bread goes up to $500?? Anyway, we were all trying to figure out whether it's better to have money in the bank, or buy something with some intrinsic value instead. What say you?
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:57:34 AM EST
there's really only one thing that has an absolutely static supply......land
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 3:57:53 AM EST



Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:00:08 AM EST
Ford 8N
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:00:59 AM EST
Ammo
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:01:23 AM EST
How about the basics? Food & water. Luxury items like alcohol, tobacco and lipstick are all great for barter or trading when times are tough.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:04:38 AM EST
ammo , maybe silver ...
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:05:35 AM EST
I'm curious. Since our currency is no longer based on gold, what justification would the government have to seize it?
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:05:59 AM EST
if bread is going to cost $500, why not stockpile the stuff needed to make...BREAD. seriously, if things get that bad, all thoughts of value and currency may well be out the window. have a place to stay, supplies to survive and the means to protect it all.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:06:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
there's really only one thing that has an absolutely static supply......land
Until they tax it away from you.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:07:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 4:15:21 AM EST by ultramagbrion]
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
there's really only one thing that has an absolutely static supply......land


Agreed .

They aint making any more of it

( just bought 11.5 acres myself )


Originally Posted By STX:
Until they tax it away from you.

True.....but it's still yours until they forcefully take it ( eminent domain ) .........then it's on

As long as you have a chunk someplace rural , that'll never be threatened by urban-expansion or a new highway , by the time the shit gets bad enough where the gov is taking land by force , it's on .
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:07:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Mazeman:
I'm curious. Since our currency is no longer based on gold, what justification would the government have to seize it?


don't confuse them
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:49:33 AM EST
Hookers and blow.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 4:49:41 AM EST
What's the most inflation-proof thing to invest in?


Having no debt would be a good start
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 6:00:44 AM EST
Well if bread is $500 a loaf, then the most valuable thing will be a good weapon and lots of ammo, because the cities will burn and there will be no law enforcement.

many people think that with inflation wages will go up. Wages will not go up in an economy where business is going out of business.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 6:07:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 6:12:02 AM EST by NoVaGator]
Originally Posted By Agent_Funky:
What's the most inflation-proof thing to invest in?


Having no debt would be a good start


actually, if you anticipate hyper-inflation, it's GREAT to rack up a huge amount of debt at today's dollars and pay it back it back with inflated dollars.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 6:09:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By scottc1071:
Ford 8N


You can have mine. Whoever designed Ford 8N must be dug up and hanged for stupidity.

Link Posted: 7/22/2010 6:10:25 AM EST
Machine guns have held up pretty well, though this is not an option in NJ. Also, you'd have to sell them to cash in on the investment.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:19:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By jungp:
Originally Posted By scottc1071:
Ford 8N


You can have mine. Whoever designed Ford 8N must be dug up and hanged for stupidity.



I don't have one, a friend of mine rebuilds them and swears by them. But thinking about it he's pretty much a bafoon, but old tractors in general, don't die and hold their value.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:23:39 AM EST
my $89 ak parts kits
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:23:52 AM EST
Learn how to make bread.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:26:09 AM EST
Food, Maslow always wins


Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:30:06 AM EST
When bread costs $500 a loaf, I'll probably not buy any. The ingredients to make bread would probably add up to at least $100 or more... per bread... Yeah! How long would you think that'll last for?
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:31:07 AM EST
Land, you can still buy land in the US for cheap. Heck, I know of properties that are worth their cost just due to the timber on them.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:32:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By nickdcj7:
I was talking politics with some of the guys at the fire house last night, and one of the m starts talking about how the .gov is preparing themselves to be able to seize everyone's gold when the dollar takes a shit. It got me to thinking, since I finally have money in the bank for the first time since I bought a house 4 years ago. What good is that money gonna do me when a loaf of bread goes up to $500?? Anyway, we were all trying to figure out whether it's better to have money in the bank, or buy something with some intrinsic value instead. What say you?


Precious metals of course.....lead and brass....
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:35:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 7:36:41 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By nickdcj7:
I was talking politics with some of the guys at the fire house last night, and one of the m starts talking about how the .gov is preparing themselves to be able to seize everyone's gold when the dollar takes a shit. It got me to thinking, since I finally have money in the bank for the first time since I bought a house 4 years ago. What good is that money gonna do me when a loaf of bread goes up to $500?? Anyway, we were all trying to figure out whether it's better to have money in the bank, or buy something with some intrinsic value instead. What say you?

There's no such thing as 'intrinsic value'. And since every indication is that any further economic troubles - like everything 08-foreward - will be DEFLATIONARY, not INFLATIONARY... Planning for inflation is like buying earthquake insurance to protect against tornadoes...

I'm sure you'll have some inflation-groupies come along and try to tie 'the national debt' to inflation, but that's nuts...

And the 'gold confiscation' scare is just a blind reading of history with no understanding of WHY the gold confiscation happened - specifically, that it happened to save the dollar-gold peg.

Since that peg is gone, there is NO reason for the government to confiscate gold.


Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:46:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By nickdcj7:
I was talking politics with some of the guys at the fire house last night, and one of the m starts talking about how the .gov is preparing themselves to be able to seize everyone's gold when the dollar takes a shit. It got me to thinking, since I finally have money in the bank for the first time since I bought a house 4 years ago. What good is that money gonna do me when a loaf of bread goes up to $500?? Anyway, we were all trying to figure out whether it's better to have money in the bank, or buy something with some intrinsic value instead. What say you?

There's no such thing as 'intrinsic value'. And since every indication is that any further economic troubles - like everything 08-foreward - will be DEFLATIONARY, not INFLATIONARY... Planning for inflation is like buying earthquake insurance to protect against tornadoes...

I'm sure you'll have some inflation-groupies come along and try to tie 'the national debt' to inflation, but that's nuts...

And the 'gold confiscation' scare is just a blind reading of history with no understanding of WHY the gold confiscation happened - specifically, that it happened to save the dollar-gold peg.

Since that peg is gone, there is NO reason for the government to confiscate gold.



Another ingenious post by Dave_A

No such thing as intrinsic value (or lack thereof)??


As for inflation, Laffer disagrees with you, as do many people who are better educated than yourself.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:48:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By BIG_PAPA:
if bread is going to cost $500, why not stockpile the stuff needed to make...BREAD. seriously, if things get that bad, all thoughts of value and currency may well be out the window. have a place to stay, supplies to survive and the means to protect it all.


If you are saying "have what you need to tough it out" before worrying about preservation of additional value then I agree.

Anyone who says "obviously food is the best way to preserve value because..." hasn't consider the basic math involved.

A 1000 square foot storage space filled to 6 feet deep will barely hold $30,000 worth of wheat at today's spot and futures prices.

Sure it would make a lot of "$500" loaves of bread -if you stored the fuel (never mind water, sugar, yeast) to cook all 300,000 of them...

On the other hand you could walk around with $30,000 in gold split between your front pockets and nobody but you would notice.

By all means have what you think you'll need in whatever SHTF scenario concerns you, but don't pretend that food is going to represent value that you are going to be willing or able to "cash in", move, or defend for that matter.
.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:50:27 AM EST
The best thing to do is take a deep breath, count to ten, and fear not, a loaf of bread will not hit 500 dollars in your lifetime. Not even close.

Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:53:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By nickdcj7:
I was talking politics with some of the guys at the fire house last night, and one of the m starts talking about how the .gov is preparing themselves to be able to seize everyone's gold when the dollar takes a shit. It got me to thinking, since I finally have money in the bank for the first time since I bought a house 4 years ago. What good is that money gonna do me when a loaf of bread goes up to $500?? Anyway, we were all trying to figure out whether it's better to have money in the bank, or buy something with some intrinsic value instead. What say you?

There's no such thing as 'intrinsic value'. And since every indication is that any further economic troubles - like everything 08-foreward - will be DEFLATIONARY, not INFLATIONARY... Planning for inflation is like buying earthquake insurance to protect against tornadoes...

I'm sure you'll have some inflation-groupies come along and try to tie 'the national debt' to inflation, but that's nuts...

And the 'gold confiscation' scare is just a blind reading of history with no understanding of WHY the gold confiscation happened - specifically, that it happened to save the dollar-gold peg.

Since that peg is gone, there is NO reason for the government to confiscate gold.



Another ingenious post by Dave_A

No such thing as intrinsic value (or lack thereof)??
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/193/472679832_15da249bbf.jpg

No such thing as intrinsic value at all.

Oil. Gold. Tulips. All of them have experienced a bubble-valuation at one time (one of them is NOW), and both oil and gold will experience such a bubble again...

The value of ANYTHING is 100% relative - a direct product of supply and demand.

If the demand dries up, the value drops. When a product experiences an unsustainable spike in demand (like gold just before/during a recession, or like anything that sees a sudden influx of uninformed speculative investors - housing, .com stocks) a bubble valuation is GUARANTEED.


As for inflation, Laffer disagrees with you, as do many people who are better educated than yourself.

The Federal Reserve agrees with me. That's all I need.


Link Posted: 7/22/2010 7:54:54 AM EST
Real Estate.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:00:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Mateba:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By nickdcj7:
I was talking politics with some of the guys at the fire house last night, and one of the m starts talking about how the .gov is preparing themselves to be able to seize everyone's gold when the dollar takes a shit. It got me to thinking, since I finally have money in the bank for the first time since I bought a house 4 years ago. What good is that money gonna do me when a loaf of bread goes up to $500?? Anyway, we were all trying to figure out whether it's better to have money in the bank, or buy something with some intrinsic value instead. What say you?

There's no such thing as 'intrinsic value'. And since every indication is that any further economic troubles - like everything 08-foreward - will be DEFLATIONARY, not INFLATIONARY... Planning for inflation is like buying earthquake insurance to protect against tornadoes...

I'm sure you'll have some inflation-groupies come along and try to tie 'the national debt' to inflation, but that's nuts...

And the 'gold confiscation' scare is just a blind reading of history with no understanding of WHY the gold confiscation happened - specifically, that it happened to save the dollar-gold peg.

Since that peg is gone, there is NO reason for the government to confiscate gold.



Another ingenious post by Dave_A

No such thing as intrinsic value (or lack thereof)??
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/193/472679832_15da249bbf.jpg

No such thing as intrinsic value at all.

Oil. Gold. Tulips. All of them have experienced a bubble-valuation at one time (one of them is NOW), and both oil and gold will experience such a bubble again...

The value of ANYTHING is 100% relative - a direct product of supply and demand.

If the demand dries up, the value drops. When a product experiences an unsustainable spike in demand (like gold just before/during a recession, or like anything that sees a sudden influx of uninformed speculative investors - housing, .com stocks) a bubble valuation is GUARANTEED.


As for inflation, Laffer disagrees with you, as do many people who are better educated than yourself.

The Federal Reserve agrees with me. That's all I need.




I hear gold has intrinsic value as a weapon because it's poisonous.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:05:07 AM EST
I think most here missed the point of this as a hypothetical situation that I didn't have a really good answer for. I said the best investment I could think of in this situation would be guns and ammo. But I was just thinking that real estate would be good as well.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:05:50 AM EST
I'm heavily invested in copper, brass, and lead.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:07:46 AM EST
Food!

Keep a years supply on hand at all times.
You can donate it to charity (and write it off) every year, and buy new stock to keep it fresh? Sounds like a plan to me!
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:10:46 AM EST
Guns and ammo but I agree that deflation is the risk.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:11:11 AM EST
Booze.
No matter how tough times get, people will still drink.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:12:05 AM EST
Primers. If the SHTF, the government will just seize the companies that make primers. You can have all the guns, brass, lead, and powder you want, but it don't do shyt, if it don't go bang.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:16:54 AM EST
Fiberglass.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:18:02 AM EST
Well, I guess rubber rafts and love dolls wouldn't fit this bill...
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:20:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
there's really only one thing that has an absolutely static supply......land


Not accurate. The demand for land changes and has cycles just like anything.



Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:21:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Agent_Funky:
What's the most inflation-proof thing to invest in?


Having no debt would be a good start

Quite the opposite. Think of it this way. Say you have a loan on your house for 5%. If inflation hits hard (20%) then the difference is 15%. So your liability in relative costs are going down by the delta between your loan rate and the inflation rate.

A poor example, but all i can think of right now, would be this:

You take out a loan in the country of Zambobwee for 100,000 in local currency in 2005 with a 10% interest rate for 30 years. You could have paid that entire loan off with one 100,000 bill less than 5 years later because of the effects of inflation.

As long as you can make the payments a loan is a reasonable inflation shelter because the lending party is taking the inflation hit, not you.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:24:29 AM EST
Die cast NASCAR cars
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:24:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By ScopeScar:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
there's really only one thing that has an absolutely static supply......land


Not accurate. The demand for land changes and has cycles just like anything.





the demand for EVERYTHING changes over time, but with exceedingly few exceptions, the supply of land is static.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 8:30:14 AM EST
Water, food, ammo, sliver, booze. Collect them all, in that order.

By the way, the inflation/deflation debate is framed poorly. You can simultaneously have the price of certain "assets" (like say a strip mall or a credit default swap) plunge, while the price of certain commodities or manufactured goods go sky high.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:03:14 AM EST
To hedge against inflation I would have to say gold and silver (as a medium of liquid exchange). Buy face to face in small quantities over time. Of course the "value" changes over time and if you're comparing it to the dollar then you could loose some. However, if the economy does take a dump or the .gov devalues or replaces our currency then gold and silver will STILL have value. And unlike land gold and silver are portable.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:04:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
there's really only one thing that has an absolutely static supply......land


nailed it
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:05:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
there's really only one thing that has an absolutely static supply......land


Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:06:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gunplay:
Water, food, ammo, sliver, booze. Collect them all, in that order.

By the way, the inflation/deflation debate is framed poorly. You can simultaneously have the price of certain "assets" (like say a strip mall or a credit default swap) plunge, while the price of certain commodities or manufactured goods go sky high.


Good post.

Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:07:23 AM EST
Ammo, dude. Buy ammo.
Link Posted: 7/22/2010 9:08:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
there's really only one thing that has an absolutely static supply......land


nailed it

True. But that shit costs you money every year until you sell it. Most of the time anyway.

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