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Posted: 3/28/2009 7:00:07 AM EDT
Spokane residents rebel over dirty dishes
Sierra Vista Herald/Bisbee Review ^ | NICHOLAS K. GERANIOS

SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) — The quest for squeaky-clean dishes has turned some law-abiding people in Spokane into dishwater-detergent smugglers.

They are bringing Cascade or Electrasol in from out of state because the eco-friendly varieties required under Washington state law don't work as well.

Spokane County became the launch pad last July for the nation's strictest ban on dishwasher detergent made with phosphates, a measure aimed at reducing water pollution. The ban will be expanded statewide in July 2010, the same time similar laws take effect in several other states.

But it's not easy to get sparkling dishes whenyou go green.

Many people were shocked to find that products like Seventh Generation, Ecover and Trader Joe's left their dishes encrusted with food, smeared with grease and too gross to use without rewashing them by hand. The culprit was hard water, which is mineral-rich and resistant to soap.

As a result, there has been a quiet rush of Spokane-area shoppers heading east on Interstate 90 into Idaho in search of old-school suds.

Real estate agent Patti Marcotte of Spokane stocks up on detergent at a Costco in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, and doesn't care who knows it.

"Yes, I am a smuggler," she said. "I'm taking my chances because dirty dishes I cannot live with."

(In truth, the ban applies to the sale of phosphate detergent — not its use or possession — so Marcotte is not in any legal trouble.)

Marcotte said she tried every green brand in her dishwasher and found none would remove grease and pieces of food. Everybody she knows buys dishwasher detergent in Idaho, she said.

Supporters of the ban acknowledge it is not very popular.

"I'm not hearing a lot of positive feedback," conceded Shannon Brattebo of the Washington Lake Protection Association, a prime mover of the ban. "I think people are driving to Idaho."

Steve Marcy, manager of the Costco in Coeur d'Alene, about 10 miles east of the Washington state line, estimated that sales of dishwasher detergent in his store have increased 10 percent. He knows where the customers are coming from.

"I'll joke with them and ask if they are from Spokane," Marcy said. "They say, 'Oh yeah.'"

Shoppers can still buy phosphate detergents in Washington state by venturing outside Spokane County, but Idaho is more convenient to many Spokane residents.

Phosphates — the main cleaning agent in many detergents and household cleaners — break down grease and remove stains. However, the chemicals are difficult to remove in wastewater treatment plants and often wind up in rivers and lakes, where they promote the growth of algae. And algae gobble up oxygen in the water that fish need to survive.

While traditional detergents are up to 9 percent phosphate, those sold in Spokane County can contain no more than 0.5 percent.

The Washington Lake Protection Association has launched a campaign to encourage people to give the environmentally friendly brands a fair chance. The group suggests consumers experiment with different brands or install water softeners to help the green detergents work better.

"Clean lakes and clean dishes do not have to be mutually exclusive," said association president-elect Jacob McCann.

Phosphates have been banned in laundry detergent nationally since 1993. Washington was the first state where the Legislature passed a similar ban against dishwasher detergents, in 2006. The ban is being phased in, starting with Spokane County.

"It's nice to be on the cutting edge," Spokane resident Ken Beck, an opponent of the ban, said sarcastically.

Among other states that have banned or are banning phosphates in dishwasher detergent are Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Michigan, Vermont, Minnesota, Illinois, Massachusetts and New York. A bill on Capitol Hill would impose a nationwide ban.

The Soap and Detergent Association, which represents manufacturers, initially fought the bans. But as the movement gained strength across the country, the association asked legislatures to delay bans until July 2010 to allow for a uniform rollout of products.

The industry has been working to develop better low-phosphate detergents, said Dennis Griesing, vice president of the manufacturers group.

"This is an irrevocable, nationwide commitment on the industry's part," he said.

For his part, Beck has taken to washing his dishes on his machine's pots-and-pans cycle, which takes longer and uses five gallons more water. Beck wonders if that isn't as tough on the environment as phosphates.

"How much is this really costing us?" Beck said. "Aren't we transferring the environmental consequences to something else?"
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:06:45 AM EDT
Patti Marcotte, dangerous detergent smuggler, better watch her cornhole and buy her dog a vest.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:19:08 AM EDT
Hmm, strange. I never knew we had hard water, it's some of the best tasting water I've found anywhere in the country and I've never had a problem getting my dishes clean, but then I do dishes by hand so this doesn't bother me.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:22:09 AM EDT
I smell a Smokey and the Bandit sequel.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:22:57 AM EDT
Has Washington managed to out-retard California on something?
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:22:57 AM EDT
My Mom used to be a detergent smuggler when I was a kid.

Our county banned one type of laundry detergent (Iif I remember correctly, it included "phosphates") but we lived close to the county border. So, she used to go shopping for detergent in the neighboring county and smuggle it in.

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:23:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By skeeterh:
Hmm, strange. I never knew we had hard water, it's some of the best tasting water I've found anywhere in the country and I've never had a problem getting my dishes clean, but then I do dishes by hand so this doesn't bother me.


There is both around Spokane.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:40:28 AM EDT
LMFAO
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:45:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By poink:
Has Washington managed to out-retard California on something?


Yes and no...

Most of the trouble we have in this state comes from Californians who, through their liberal voting and ideologies, have fucked up their state to the point of being unlivable and have moved here.

Yet, they didn't make the connection between their Liberal world view, voting and the cesspool they were living in and brought their diseased mindset to my home.

I'm going to crucify every one of them I can get my hands on when SHTF. ***** Street that I currently live on will be renamed simply "The Road". Traveling through it will be visual and auditory gauntlet pain and suffering.

That said, I still wash dishes by hand. It takes mere minutes, they get cleaner and it help me center my chi.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:50:38 AM EDT
clearly the real problem here is the mineral deposits and hard water. of course, the logical next step is mandatory water softeners in all homes. viva la green.

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:54:14 AM EDT
do these people realize how many MILLIONS of TONS of phosphates are put on farm fields and lawns every year...
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:55:17 AM EDT
I thought we fixed the phosphate problem in the seventies.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:01:58 AM EDT
Time to stock up before obozo pushes for a nation wide ban.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:13:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By poink:
Has Washington managed to out-retard California on something?


Yes and no...

Most of the trouble we have in this state comes from Californians who, through their liberal voting and ideologies, have fucked up their state to the point of being unlivable and have moved here.

Yet, they didn't make the connection between their Liberal world view, voting and the cesspool they were living in and brought their diseased mindset to my home.

I'm going to crucify every one of them I can get my hands on when SHTF. ***** Street that I currently live on will be renamed simply "The Road". Traveling through it will be visual and auditory gauntlet pain and suffering.

That said, I still wash dishes by hand. It takes mere minutes, they get cleaner and it help me center my chi.


Funny how Washington comes up with some fucked up shit and the blame is instantly put on "those damned Californians".
Remember, they have come from California, but you voted for them.
Before you say "I never voted for them", thats what the members on here from California say and it falls on deaf ears.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:23:51 AM EDT
Washington is the new Mexico.

90% of all full-auto dishwasher detergent is coming from Idaho. This MUST be stopped. Wheres the DATFE (Detergent, Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives) when we need them? We must put troops on the border to stop this flood of detergent across the border!!!
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:26:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
I smell a Smokey and the Bandit sequel.


Yes but Colorado is right behind us.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:37:21 AM EDT
I have been picking up 2-3 bottles of pre-ban dishwashing soap in anticipation of problems acquiring it later.

I bought a Stack On metal cabinet and every time I go to Wal Mart another few bottles is added to the stash.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:42:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Funny how Washington comes up with some fucked up shit and the blame is instantly put on "those damned Californians".
Remember, they have come from California, but you voted for them.
Before you say "I never voted for them", thats what the members on here from California say and it falls on deaf ears.

First, my statement was clearly directed at the Liberal scum of California, so don't be so sensitive.

Second, it's a cold hard fact that a large percentage (if not most) of the people in my nearest metro area are displaced Californians. They all moved here in the late 80s and early 90s, selling their $500,000 (then) middle class, 1400 square foot home and moving to WA where the real estate was cheap and plentiful. More power to them for that, except they brought their Socialistic and Communist viewpoints with them.

Third, unlike the conservative Californians, I do take the blame for the current condition of my state. I may not have been the one pulling the lever for Super Libs like Queen Christine, but neither am I looting, raping, pillaging, tarring, feathering or burning. I've no doubt that the Founders would be disgusted with me for my inaction.

Every man has a breaking point. There will come a day, perhaps in my lifetime and perhaps not, where having a wife and children will no longer outweigh the risks associated with guerilla politics.

One will have to look said children in the face someday.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:51:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:


Most of the trouble we have in this state comes from Californians who, through their liberal voting and ideologies, have fucked up their state to the point of being unlivable and have moved here.



Funny, we have the same problem here in Texas.

It's like a sickness of the mind.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:54:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Funny how Washington comes up with some fucked up shit and the blame is instantly put on "those damned Californians".
Remember, they have come from California, but you voted for them.
Before you say "I never voted for them", thats what the members on here from California say and it falls on deaf ears.

First, my statement was clearly directed at the Liberal scum of California, so don't be so sensitive.

Second, it's a cold hard fact that a large percentage (if not most) of the people in my nearest metro area are displaced Californians. They all moved here in the late 80s and early 90s, selling their $500,000 (then) middle class, 1400 square foot home and moving to WA where the real estate was cheap and plentiful. More power to them for that, except they brought their Socialistic and Communist viewpoints with them.

Third, unlike the conservative Californians, I do take the blame for the current condition of my state
. I may not have been the one pulling the lever for Super Libs like Queen Christine, but neither am I looting, raping, pillaging, tarring, feathering or burning. I've no doubt that the Founders would be disgusted with me for my inaction.

Every man has a breaking point. There will come a day, perhaps in my lifetime and perhaps not, where having a wife and children will no longer outweigh the risks associated with guerilla politics.

One will have to look said children in the face someday.


As much as the part in red stings, I have to agree. I am guilty of not doing all that I could.
The rest of the post is a well thought out response that goes beyond the usual "F U. oh yeah, well FU." that is common on here. Its refreshing to actually have a dialog.
Perhaps you and I aren't so different after all.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:55:03 AM EDT
Can I put some loaded with phosphate detergent up for sale on the EE for anyone in Spokane?
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:56:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:


Most of the trouble we have in this state comes from Californians who, through their liberal voting and ideologies, have fucked up their state to the point of being unlivable and have moved here.



Funny, we have the same problem here in Texas.

It's like a sickness of the mind.















Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:58:58 AM EDT
Serve food on dirty dishes when local politician shows up to eat in the restaurant
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:01:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StagArmslower:
Serve food on dirty dishes when local politician shows up to eat in the restaurant


I like it!
A silent form of protest.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:08:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
As much as the part in red stings, I have to agree. I am guilty of not doing all that I could.
The rest of the post is a well thought out response that goes beyond the usual "F U. oh yeah, well FU." that is common on here. Its refreshing to actually have a dialog.
Perhaps you and I aren't so different after all.


When I lower my shield of sarcasm and wit, many people are surprised (and usually frightened) when what I say starts making sense.

May our enemies die from ass cancer. Cheers, breu.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:08:44 AM EDT
I heard cheaper than dirt has Pre-ban Dawn for $155 a bottle.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:09:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:


Most of the trouble we have in this state comes from Californians who, through their liberal voting and ideologies, have fucked up their state to the point of being unlivable and have moved here.



Funny, we have the same problem here in Texas.

It's like a sickness of the mind.


We have the problem here but they hail from NY, NJ and Conn.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:11:49 AM EDT
If you really want to fuck with them, buy TSP from the hardware store and put that in your dishwasher and washing machine.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:14:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Funny how Washington comes up with some fucked up shit and the blame is instantly put on "those damned Californians".
Remember, they have come from California, but you voted for them.
Before you say "I never voted for them", thats what the members on here from California say and it falls on deaf ears.

First, my statement was clearly directed at the Liberal scum of California, so don't be so sensitive.

Second, it's a cold hard fact that a large percentage (if not most) of the people in my nearest metro area are displaced Californians. They all moved here in the late 80s and early 90s, selling their $500,000 (then) middle class, 1400 square foot home and moving to WA where the real estate was cheap and plentiful. More power to them for that, except they brought their Socialistic and Communist viewpoints with them.

Third, unlike the conservative Californians, I do take the blame for the current condition of my state. I may not have been the one pulling the lever for Super Libs like Queen Christine, but neither am I looting, raping, pillaging, tarring, feathering or burning. I've no doubt that the Founders would be disgusted with me for my inaction.

Every man has a breaking point. There will come a day, perhaps in my lifetime and perhaps not, where having a wife and children will no longer outweigh the risks associated with guerilla politics.

One will have to look said children in the face someday.


Plus fucking one!!! Your right, but we dont vote for them. Semi free Washington does not have a chance when the population in 2 counties is greater than the rest of the state. Look at our state, King county decides what the rest of us will get.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:19:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By poink:
Has Washington managed to out-retard California on something?


Yes and no...

Most of the trouble we have in this state comes from Californians who, through their liberal voting and ideologies, have fucked up their state to the point of being unlivable and have moved here.

Yet, they didn't make the connection between their Liberal world view, voting and the cesspool they were living in and brought their diseased mindset to my home.

I'm going to crucify every one of them I can get my hands on when SHTF. ***** Street that I currently live on will be renamed simply "The Road". Traveling through it will be visual and auditory gauntlet pain and suffering.

That said, I still wash dishes by hand. It takes mere minutes, they get cleaner and it help me center my chi.


QFT I grew up in Washington on the East side. The Californian immigrants and the liberals from the west side are slowly eroding the state away with their utter hypocrisy.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:29:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mstennes:
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Funny how Washington comes up with some fucked up shit and the blame is instantly put on "those damned Californians".
Remember, they have come from California, but you voted for them.
Before you say "I never voted for them", thats what the members on here from California say and it falls on deaf ears.

First, my statement was clearly directed at the Liberal scum of California, so don't be so sensitive.

Second, it's a cold hard fact that a large percentage (if not most) of the people in my nearest metro area are displaced Californians. They all moved here in the late 80s and early 90s, selling their $500,000 (then) middle class, 1400 square foot home and moving to WA where the real estate was cheap and plentiful. More power to them for that, except they brought their Socialistic and Communist viewpoints with them.

Third, unlike the conservative Californians, I do take the blame for the current condition of my state. I may not have been the one pulling the lever for Super Libs like Queen Christine, but neither am I looting, raping, pillaging, tarring, feathering or burning. I've no doubt that the Founders would be disgusted with me for my inaction.

Every man has a breaking point. There will come a day, perhaps in my lifetime and perhaps not, where having a wife and children will no longer outweigh the risks associated with guerilla politics.

One will have to look said children in the face someday.


Plus fucking one!!! Your right, but we dont vote for them. Semi free Washington does not have a chance when the population in 2 counties is greater than the rest of the state. Look at our state, King county decides what the rest of us will get.


I sympathize as the bay area and LA dominate the libtard voting here.
The county I live in has about 30-35% registered Republicans.
Go North and its almost solid red.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:34:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
I sympathize as the bay area and LA dominate the libtard voting here.
The county I live in has about 30-35% registered Republicans.
Go North and its almost solid red.


They really need to split your state in two.

Northern and Southern California are like East and West Germany.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:38:09 AM EDT
Well I hope they ban soda to as that contains phosphates (phosphoric acid)

Worst comes to worst you can wash dishes with soda
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:42:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
I sympathize as the bay area and LA dominate the libtard voting here.
The county I live in has about 30-35% registered Republicans.
Go North and its almost solid red.


They really need to split your state in two.

Northern and Southern California are like East and West Germany.


Evil,
Another big plus one! We have said that forever. Hell even State Rep Bob Morton? from Orient,WA says that and trys, to bad he does not get any where. Hell King County would just vote us down.
M
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:44:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Funny how Washington comes up with some fucked up shit and the blame is instantly put on "those damned Californians".
Remember, they have come from California, but you voted for them.
Before you say "I never voted for them", thats what the members on here from California say and it falls on deaf ears.

First, my statement was clearly directed at the Liberal scum of California, so don't be so sensitive.

Second, it's a cold hard fact that a large percentage (if not most) of the people in my nearest metro area are displaced Californians. They all moved here in the late 80s and early 90s, selling their $500,000 (then) middle class, 1400 square foot home and moving to WA where the real estate was cheap and plentiful. More power to them for that, except they brought their Socialistic and Communist viewpoints with them.

Third, unlike the conservative Californians, I do take the blame for the current condition of my state. I may not have been the one pulling the lever for Super Libs like Queen Christine, but neither am I looting, raping, pillaging, tarring, feathering or burning. I've no doubt that the Founders would be disgusted with me for my inaction.

Every man has a breaking point. There will come a day, perhaps in my lifetime and perhaps not, where having a wife and children will no longer outweigh the risks associated with guerilla politics.

One will have to look said children in the face someday.


Wow. Good post Evil. Very good post.



Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:45:00 AM EDT
I hope some of those tree hugging fuckers get a dose of their own consequence.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:51:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By poink:
Has Washington managed to out-retard California on something?


The assholes in Olympia are trying
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:55:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By poink:
Has Washington managed to out-retard California on something?


We are trying our darndest! We look on to California as a role model.

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:55:57 AM EDT
I'm from Spokane and they can pry my pre-ban phosphate detergent from my cold dead hands.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:56:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
I sympathize as the bay area and LA dominate the libtard voting here.
The county I live in has about 30-35% registered Republicans.
Go North and its almost solid red.


They really need to split your state in two.

Northern and Southern California are like East and West Germany.


There was talk at one time about chopping it into 3 states.
North, Central, South.

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 9:58:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:

That said, I still wash dishes by hand. It takes mere minutes, they get cleaner and it help me center my chi.


+1 I've never understood dishwashers for home use.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:00:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MattelFromHell:
I'm from Spokane and they can pry my pre-ban phosphate detergent from my cold dead hands.


You will not touch my phosphate detergent! Molon Labe!

If you boys need anything, I'll do my best to help.
Intel,supplies, whatever. Just let me know.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:03:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By theliberating1:

Originally Posted By Evil_ATF:

That said, I still wash dishes by hand. It takes mere minutes, they get cleaner and it help me center my chi.


+1 I've never understood dishwashers for home use.


I discovered that it also cleans under your fingernails without having to scrub.
Two birds with one stone.

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:07:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ApacheScout:
Originally Posted By MattelFromHell:
I'm from Spokane and they can pry my pre-ban phosphate detergent from my cold dead hands.


You will not touch my phosphate detergent! Molon Labe!

If you boys need anything, I'll do my best to help.
Intel,supplies, whatever. Just let me know.


Thanks for the support ApacheScout!! The new detergents really do suck, they leave a gross greasy film and food chunks on everything.

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:11:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By poink:
Has Washington managed to out-retard California on something?




I was thinking the same thing.







Roy
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:15:56 AM EDT
I will admit that I've tried the eco-weenie dish detergents. They simply don't work as well...it takes 2-3 times the product. That means it ultimately costs me more money, more trips to the store(more fuel consumed by my evil SUV), more bottles disposed of(potentially in landfills), etc., etc.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:16:38 AM EDT
I'm in Spokane and my wife would never do anything like that
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:20:50 AM EDT
Spokane here,

Not only does the enviro-soap shit not work to actually clean dishes, but everyone in this county that has been using it, I suggest that you pull the filter parts out of the bottom of your machine and take a look.

You will find that the residue from the enviro-soap does not wash away and starts to clog up those filter parts and just gunks up your machine in general.


I was getting poor cleaning in my machine after using it for a couple months and found the residue sticking to my machine and became an instant "smuggler" myself.


Evil is right about the California "influence" that has infected this state and it is pathetic.

Cascade ( a phosphate soap) has been around for decades and it hurts no one.

When SHTF finally and there is no more "law" , the tree huggers will be my sporting targets !!!
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:36:42 AM EDT
Shit, this is coming to VA in 2010. I'd better stock up this year. Get plenty of pre-ban detergent. I'm sure the Green stuff will suck.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:41:25 AM EDT
I lived in Washington state for 20 years before I moved to Arizona in the mid 90's. This kind of shit isn't new, it started with the so called "Year of the Woman" where Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell got elected to the Senate (apparently for life) and it's gotten worse and worse with each passing year and the icing on the cake was the theft of the governors mansion by Christine Gregoire. Washingtonians must like their restrictive masters and nanny state laws, they keep re-electing them.

I don't have any answers, we're having the same battle in Arizona, my own legislative district kicked out a good conservative Republican in J.D. Hayworth and elected a liberal democrat carpetbagger named Harry Mitchell, who has since gone back on every promise he made. All I can say is I hope 2010 is a good year for us.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 11:27:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2009 11:27:42 AM EDT by Windustsearch]
CA would better be divided east and west. All of the libtards are on the coastal side, except for Palm Springs.
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