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Posted: 6/21/2016 2:49:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2016 2:50:34 PM EDT by ske714]
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/20/uk-says-troops-now-allowed-to-reveal-classified-intel-under-interrogation/

The United Kingdom will now allow troops held by extremist organizations like Islamic State to reveal classified information under interrogation. The new policy says U.K. troops will be expected to slowly reveal information and keep extremely sensitive information secret for as long as possible.

Like their American counterparts, U.K. troops were previously only directed to reveal their name, rank, and serial number when captured by enemy forces. The brutal executions and torture of prisoners by extremist groups like ISIS and al-Qaida, led the U.K. government to conclude its current expectations were unrealistic.

The reality is that if you are captured by a terrorist group you will be tortured, one British military force told The Telegraph. The source elaborated, We are fighting people who dont care about the Geneva conventions. Torture will often be their first weapon of choice during an interrogation.

ISIS in particular is known to repeatedly torture and eventually execute many of its Western prisoners. The terrorist group publicly beheaded British aid worker Alan Henning in October, 2014. The beheading of a British citizen prompted British drone strikes against terrorists in Iraq and Syria.

U.K. troops reportedly are taught a traffic light system with information coded as green, yellow, and red. Green information is the first information troops can reveal to their captors. Red information should be held secret as long as possible, while yellow information can be revealed only after all green information has been revealed.

The U.K. government defended the guidance saying, Personnel are required to give their number, rank, full names and date of birth, and do not have to give any further information. The new rules come amid British special forces deployments in Libya and Iraq.

The British Forces have reportedly been in Libya for over a year, advising local forces amid the fight to retake key cities from ISIS. ISIS reportedly has over 7,000 fighters in Libya, making it the second largest force the terrorists have outside of Iraq and Syria. British Special Forces recently played a key role in helping Libyan forces retake the city of Sirte June 11.


ETA: It won't make any difference.

Link Posted: 6/21/2016 2:55:45 PM EDT
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 2:57:14 PM EDT
So we're told that expecting the good guys to keep sensitive info secret under torture is "unrealistic", but we're also told that if we "torture" people all the info we get will be crap?
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 2:58:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.
View Quote


That

Plus I thought it was standard procedure to have several bullshit stories to release over time

Link Posted: 6/21/2016 2:59:06 PM EDT
I came ready to flame them, but I actually get what they're saying. The complete refusal of cooperation works when other nations decide that torture isn't even worth it. With modern enemies, they're going to torture you to death anyways. By giving them a little at a time, you can prolong your survival and make rescue more likely. Not sure they should have announced it so publicly like that when only a few SF guys are over there, but whatever.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:00:01 PM EDT
Wait, what?

Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:00:41 PM EDT
How many of you old Infantry guys having to remember the "I am an American Fighting Man!"



Officers and NCO's had to memorize it.


was a part about never surrendering or giving up info.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:00:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.
View Quote
While I agree, they seem to be using it to keep the people "valuable" longer. Presumably to allow friendly forces to find and recover them before it shows up on Liveleak.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:01:47 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pesty:


That

Plus I thought it was standard procedure to have several bullshit stories to release over time

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Originally Posted By Pesty:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.


That

Plus I thought it was standard procedure to have several bullshit stories to release over time


How do you know that's not still the case...

Misinformation campaign in effect: hadji reads in the paper that british soldiers will spill the beans, Tommy spills fake beans, hadji thinks it's legit because he read it in the paper...

Of course, Tommy's still going to die horribly, so I don't know what the upside here is supposed to be...
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:01:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RANGER_556:
How many of you old Infantry guys having to remember the "I am an American Fighting Man!"



Officers and NCO's had to memorize it.


was a part about never surrendering or giving up info.
View Quote

I
I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.



II
I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.



III
If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.



IV
If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.



V
When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.



VI
I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:10:08 PM EDT
That's the more recent "PC" version. It used to say "American Fighting Man".....not just "American".
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:14:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RANGER_556:
That's the more recent "PC" version. It used to say "American Fighting Man".....not just "American".
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I didn't know that. It turns out Reagan changed it in 1988.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:28:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
While I agree, they seem to be using it to keep the people "valuable" longer. Presumably to allow friendly forces to find and recover them before it shows up on Liveleak.
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Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.
While I agree, they seem to be using it to keep the people "valuable" longer. Presumably to allow friendly forces to find and recover them before it shows up on Liveleak.


If they think your valuable you will get bundled up and moved out of the area very quickly, then handed off to someone higher up the chain who will repeat the process.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:32:30 PM EDT
Everyone knows torture doesn't work.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:37:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spade:
So we're told that expecting the good guys to keep sensitive info secret under torture is "unrealistic", but we're also told that if we "torture" people all the info we get will be crap?
View Quote
Western Civilization is committing suicide.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:42:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.
View Quote


This.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:51:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:


If they think your valuable you will get bundled up and moved out of the area very quickly, then handed off to someone higher up the chain who will repeat the process.
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.
While I agree, they seem to be using it to keep the people "valuable" longer. Presumably to allow friendly forces to find and recover them before it shows up on Liveleak.


If they think your valuable you will get bundled up and moved out of the area very quickly, then handed off to someone higher up the chain who will repeat the process.
You have to have faith that the DoD will do everything in its power to get you out alive.

That and don't get captured by ISIS. You're not a prisoner of war with them and there's a very good chance it's not going to end well for you.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:53:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spade:
So we're told that expecting the good guys to keep sensitive info secret under torture is "unrealistic", but we're also told that if we "torture" people all the info we get will be crap?
View Quote


Interesting how the effectiveness of a technique magically changes, isn't it?
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:53:52 PM EDT
Well this has the potential to get alot of people killed
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:55:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.
View Quote
This

Always save your last grenade
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:57:11 PM EDT
I think the Kipling approach is preferable to any of that.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:58:52 PM EDT
Step 1: Don't get captured by ISIS*
Step 2: If captured, fuck em, you getting loved tenderly regardless.


*Insert islamic terrorist clown shoes organization as situation dictates.

Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:58:53 PM EDT
Well, ain't that a morale boost.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:59:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2016 5:07:53 PM EDT by lostnswv]
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Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
You have to have faith that the DoD will do everything in its power to get you out alive.

That and don't get captured by ISIS. You're not a prisoner of war with them and there's a very good chance it's not going to end well for you.
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Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.
While I agree, they seem to be using it to keep the people "valuable" longer. Presumably to allow friendly forces to find and recover them before it shows up on Liveleak.


If they think your valuable you will get bundled up and moved out of the area very quickly, then handed off to someone higher up the chain who will repeat the process.
You have to have faith that the DoD will do everything in its power to get you out alive.

That and don't get captured by ISIS. You're not a prisoner of war with them and there's a very good chance it's not going to end well for you.


I am saying that getting caught would suck and end painfully. Rescue unlikely
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 4:00:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2016 4:01:01 PM EDT by Aikibiker]
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.
View Quote


We used to have a saying in Iraq. "The last grenade is for you."
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 4:07:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:


I am staying that getting caught would suck and end painfully. Rescue unlikely
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Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By lostnswv:
Sooo, ISIS...they are going to kill you no matter what soooo. First rule, do not get taken alive.
While I agree, they seem to be using it to keep the people "valuable" longer. Presumably to allow friendly forces to find and recover them before it shows up on Liveleak.


If they think your valuable you will get bundled up and moved out of the area very quickly, then handed off to someone higher up the chain who will repeat the process.
You have to have faith that the DoD will do everything in its power to get you out alive.

That and don't get captured by ISIS. You're not a prisoner of war with them and there's a very good chance it's not going to end well for you.


I am staying that getting caught would suck and end painfully. Rescue unlikely
I don't disagree.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 4:11:59 PM EDT
I'm sure I'd sing like a canary if someone started torturing me.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 4:15:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By runfrumu:
I'm sure I'd sing like a canary if someone started torturing me.
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They'd still torture you for shits and giggles.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 4:42:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2016 4:43:06 PM EDT by GLOCKshooter]
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Originally Posted By FivespeedF150:
I think the Kipling approach is preferable to any of that.
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When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
and the women come out to cut up what remains,
jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
and go to your gawd like a soldier.

-Rudyard Kipling

Link Posted: 6/21/2016 4:49:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FivespeedF150:
I think the Kipling approach is preferable to any of that.
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I was wondering if anyone was going to say it.


Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 5:45:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JVD:
Well, ain't that a morale boost.
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If captured, they'll be tortured into submission anyway. This way, they don't have to feel bad about it.
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