User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 12:33:30 PM EDT
It seems the Key West Agreement did it in more than anything else. It looks like an Attack Helo if Silvan designed it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 12:51:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Sweet! Learn something new every day.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 12:52:06 PM EDT
[#2]
My favorite of the ones that never were. Gunner cockpit was a tad too over the top tho.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 12:54:33 PM EDT
[#3]
I think naming helicopters after Indian tribes is racist.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 12:55:54 PM EDT
[#4]
OV-10 with rotors?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 12:56:30 PM EDT
[#5]
That thing would have been the Angel of Death!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 12:59:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My favorite of the ones that never were. +1 - Bad ass! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:00:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Impressive amount of firepower. I wonder how it's range/payload compare with the Apache?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:01:06 PM EDT
[#8]
If I recall correctly, they canceled it in part because some of the new Soviet AA and SAM systems coming online would of made sausage out of it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:03:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Think of this thing, now several upgrades later, in the GWOT. That thing could move FAST! You ring and it would bring.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:04:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Simultaneous target engagement makes me moist.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:06:33 PM EDT
[#11]
There is one on static display at Campbell. It is fucking massive.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:06:51 PM EDT
[#12]
I got to tour the Army hangers out at Edwards when it was there. The turret was sci-fi like back then.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:07:17 PM EDT
[#13]
The 56 was badass. The S-67 is still my favorite gunship that never was.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:07:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think naming helicopters after Indian tribes is racist. I'd be embarrassed to even be shot by it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:28:37 PM EDT
[#15]
The AH-56 Cheyenne was 54 ft 8 in in length. In comparison the AH-64 Apache is 58.17 ft (17.73 m) (with both rotors turning). So I don't see the Chyenne as being over sized.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:35:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Wish I could scan and imbed, I have a full sleeve of slides of this this taken during testing in Yuma and the rotor testing in Rye canyon at the rotor test facility in southern CA.
My father was the test director of this bird. 9 built 8 remained after testing. The one lost was bad....did not end well for anyone with a rotor mast failure. Could hover in a 30 degree nose down attitude and reverse the pusher to allow backing with nose down on target orientation. One test was popping up over a hill, putting weapons and aiming computer on target and then backing back over hill for cover. Popping up and engaging targets plotted. Very effective for it's time. Computer simulation against a fully armed destroyer had the destroyer sunk. The army evaluation pilots used in Yuma were affectionately refereed to as APES (Army evaluation pilots) and I had the honor to meet one of their sons when I took my son to the Williams AFB closing. He was a Apache driver.....small world. One of my fathers team, later went to McDonald Douglas and work on the Apache program. I have some fond memories of Yuma and great pictures of the testing and in flight pics from the King Air chase plane used during in flight tests. The only bad memory was the look on Dad's face when he came home late (2AM) the day the one bird went down. White sheet recovery and crash investigation....Damn! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:38:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The AH-56 Cheyenne was 54 ft 8 in in length. In comparison the AH-64 Apache is 58.17 ft (17.73 m) (with both rotors turning). So I don't see the Chyenne as being over sized. For a single engine helicopter it is pretty big. Keep in mind I fly a tiny one. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:39:22 PM EDT
[#18]
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:41:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wish I could scan and imbed, I have a full sleeve of slides of this this taken during testing in Yuma and the rotor testing in Rye canyon at the rotor test facility in southern CA. My father was the test director of this bird. 9 built 8 remained after testing. The one lost was bad....did not end well for anyone with a rotor mast failure. Could hover in a 30 degree nose down attitude and reverse the pusher to allow backing with nose down on target orientation. One test was popping up over a hill, putting weapons and aiming computer on target and then backing back over hill for cover. Popping up and engaging targets plotted. Very effective for it's time. Computer simulation against a fully armed destroyer had the destroyer sunk. The army evaluation pilots used in Yuma were affectionately refereed to as APES (Army evaluation pilots) and I had the honor to meet one of their sons when I took my son to the Williams AFB closing. He was a Apache driver.....small world. One of my fathers team, later went to McDonald Douglas and work on the Apache program. I have some fond memories of Yuma and great pictures of the testing and in flight pics from the King Air chase plane used during in flight tests. The only bad memory was the look on Dad's face when he came home late (2AM) the day the one bird went down. White sheet recovery and crash investigation....Damn! THAT IS AWESOME
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:41:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My favorite of the ones that never were. Gunner cockpit was a tad too over the top tho. I agree. If it's going to have a turret, the turret should have a 105mm gun, if not more. IMO, this failure is why they didn't adopt it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:45:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree. If it's going to have a turret, the turret should have a 105mm gun, if not more. IMO, this failure is why they didn't adopt it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My favorite of the ones that never were. Gunner cockpit was a tad too over the top tho. I agree. If it's going to have a turret, the turret should have a 105mm gun, if not more. IMO, this failure is why they didn't adopt it. Wiki, FWIW, says this thing gave the AF the shits ala Key West. It kinda was getting into A-10 Territory. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 1:50:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Ya, I think so too. The official line on the "crash", as always, is not quite "accurate"......."which part?" LOL
Several items that were in their infancy on this bird. Rigid rotor system (rotor wing guys will get this) and the requirement from the Army for possible ejection ability. They looked into blowing the mast/plate or rotors to clear, but eventually came up with a downward ejection. The bottom of the seats had a large hardened ram point that would pierce a special panel. This had an altitude safety as you could imagine. No live testing was ever done.....LOL. It was during this time I also had the pleasure to meet Ben Rich and some of the other gurus of the time. Hey dad, I miss ya a lot!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 2:49:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Imagine the cost difference between it and a Cobra...
Had a model of it when I was a kid. Got pictures of the one at Ft. Rucker museum. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 2:50:32 PM EDT
[#24]
They landed a Cheyenne next to the PX at Ft. Rucker just shortly before I graduated from Flight School. I was excited to see it, especially since I already knew I was headed off to Cobra School at Hunter AAF. At that time, the Army was well on the way to bringing the Cheyenne into the inventory and I couldn't wait to get my hands on one.
 It was a sad day when they announced the program had been cancelled. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 2:53:50 PM EDT
[#25]
My professor told me the air force scrapped it because it "Was able to shoot down and defeat most of their fighters" and that they saw it as a threat. Which is why they scrapped it.
Sounded like a bunch of BS to me. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 2:55:53 PM EDT
[#26]
A-10 was procured specifically to kill the AH-56.
If not for the AH-56 there never would have been an A-10. How is that for a badass airplane. It destroyed aircraft before it ever took flight. impressive. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 2:56:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My professor told me the air force scrapped it because it "Was able to shoot down and defeat most of their fighters" and that they saw it as a threat. Which is why they scrapped it. Sounded like a bunch of BS to me. Wasn't the AF's decision. It was the SECDEFs. The only thing the AF hates more than providing CAS to the Army is the Army providing CAS to the Army. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:01:52 PM EDT
[#28]
I wonder what the AF will have to say when the V-280 and SB-1 have their fly-off.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:02:54 PM EDT
[#29]
What is the purpose of the smaller rotor on top of the main one? Does that help with the tail rotor's job of counter rotation or is it something totally different?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:04:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wasn't the AF's decision. It was the SECDEFs. The only thing the AF hates more than providing CAS to the Army is the Army providing CAS to the Army. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My professor told me the air force scrapped it because it "Was able to shoot down and defeat most of their fighters" and that they saw it as a threat. Which is why they scrapped it. Sounded like a bunch of BS to me. Wasn't the AF's decision. It was the SECDEFs. The only thing the AF hates more than providing CAS to the Army is the Army providing CAS to the Army. They don't care who provides it for them, as long as they keep getting the money |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:05:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the purpose of the smaller rotor on top of the main one? Does that help with the tail rotor's job of counter rotation or is it something totally different? Just for fun, man... just for fun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:05:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Silly question - Do the weapon stubs (or whatever they're called) provide for any lift or are they designed to be aerodynamically neutral? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:06:08 PM EDT
[#33]
The comanche would have been a bit better.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:13:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The comanche would have been a bit better. There were only a few decades between the two, and I don't think they really had the same mission anyway. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:15:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don't care who provides it for them, as long as they keep getting the money Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My professor told me the air force scrapped it because it "Was able to shoot down and defeat most of their fighters" and that they saw it as a threat. Which is why they scrapped it. Sounded like a bunch of BS to me. Wasn't the AF's decision. It was the SECDEFs. The only thing the AF hates more than providing CAS to the Army is the Army providing CAS to the Army. They don't care who provides it for them, as long as they keep getting the money I'll get around to bitching about the army later. Gray Eagle opens up some possibilities. we'll see. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:15:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Silly question - Do the weapon stubs (or whatever they're called) provide for any lift or are they designed to be aerodynamically neutral? one of the arguments against it was that they did provide lift and therefore violated the laws of physics. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:17:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csGWV541yjw
It seems the Key West Agreement did it in more than anything else. It looks like an Attack Helo if Silvan designed it. That looks a lot like a gyro-copter 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:18:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Silly question - Do the weapon stubs (or whatever they're called) provide for any lift or are they designed to be aerodynamically neutral? I dont know on this helicopter specifically, but some do produce lift to offload the rotor somewhat. As for the little bits on top of the rotor, I believe they are a balancing piece to the early rigid rotor deisgn. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:18:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll get around to bitching about the army later. Gray Eagle opens up some possibilities. we'll see. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My professor told me the air force scrapped it because it "Was able to shoot down and defeat most of their fighters" and that they saw it as a threat. Which is why they scrapped it. Sounded like a bunch of BS to me. Wasn't the AF's decision. It was the SECDEFs. The only thing the AF hates more than providing CAS to the Army is the Army providing CAS to the Army. They don't care who provides it for them, as long as they keep getting the money I'll get around to bitching about the army later. Gray Eagle opens up some possibilities. we'll see. The Gray Eagle is a good platform, you watch your mouth.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:21:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The comanche would have been a bit better. That's like saying a knife is a better rock-buster than a hammer. Commanche=Black Panther Cheyenne=Hulk |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:21:51 PM EDT
[#41]
"First shot from the 30mm cannon, consistently hit inside a 10" circle at 2 miles"....NICE.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:24:14 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csGWV541yjw
It seems the Key West Agreement did it in more than anything else. It looks like an Attack Helo if Silvan designed it. I remember reading about it. One of the prime reasons it was killed off wasn't Key West, it was it's performance envelope and attack profile put it square in the MANPAD sweet spot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:28:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Tag.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:31:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember reading about it. One of the prime reasons it was killed off wasn't Key West, it was it's performance envelope and attack profile put it square in the MANPAD sweet spot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csGWV541yjwIt seems the Key West Agreement did it in more than anything else. It looks like an Attack Helo if Silvan designed it. I remember reading about it. One of the prime reasons it was killed off wasn't Key West, it was it's performance envelope and attack profile put it square in the MANPAD sweet spot. Aren't Apaches using a similar attack profile in places like Afghanistan today? It is my understanding that the hovering-behind-shit attack profile the Apache was designed for has been abandoned. Can anyone enlighten me? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:31:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember reading about it. One of the prime reasons it was killed off wasn't Key West, it was it's performance envelope and attack profile put it square in the MANPAD sweet spot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csGWV541yjw
It seems the Key West Agreement did it in more than anything else. It looks like an Attack Helo if Silvan designed it. I remember reading about it. One of the prime reasons it was killed off wasn't Key West, it was it's performance envelope and attack profile put it square in the MANPAD sweet spot. AF argued, correctly, the A-X (which became the A-10) would be more survivable. Which was correct. Ironically we still bought the AH-64. we kill things, then reagan resurrected zombie weapon systems. B-1 program dated from 1963. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 3:32:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aren't Apaches using a similar attack profile in places like Afghanistan today? It is my understanding that the hovering-behind-shit attack profile the Apache was designed for has been abandoned. Can anyone enlighten me? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csGWV541yjw
It seems the Key West Agreement did it in more than anything else. It looks like an Attack Helo if Silvan designed it. I remember reading about it. One of the prime reasons it was killed off wasn't Key West, it was it's performance envelope and attack profile put it square in the MANPAD sweet spot. Aren't Apaches using a similar attack profile in places like Afghanistan today? It is my understanding that the hovering-behind-shit attack profile the Apache was designed for has been abandoned. Can anyone enlighten me? these were designed to fight central europe, not 3rd world insurgents. check out syria videos. Helos are getting their ass handed to them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 4:00:06 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
these were designed to fight central europe, not 3rd world insurgents. check out syria videos. Helos are getting their ass handed to them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csGWV541yjw
It seems the Key West Agreement did it in more than anything else. It looks like an Attack Helo if Silvan designed it. I remember reading about it. One of the prime reasons it was killed off wasn't Key West, it was it's performance envelope and attack profile put it square in the MANPAD sweet spot. Aren't Apaches using a similar attack profile in places like Afghanistan today? It is my understanding that the hovering-behind-shit attack profile the Apache was designed for has been abandoned. Can anyone enlighten me? these were designed to fight central europe, not 3rd world insurgents. check out syria videos. Helos are getting their ass handed to them. But are they getting their ass handed to them due to non-existent training, a lack of combined-arms practice, and shitty quality of the equipment being used...or because it's just that dangerous of a speed/altitude space to occupy on the modern battlefield? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 4:01:27 PM EDT
[#48]
I doubt the Syrian owned Russian helicopters have any active or passive countermeasures.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 4:01:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
these were designed to fight central europe, not 3rd world insurgents. check out syria videos. Helos are getting their ass handed to them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csGWV541yjw
It seems the Key West Agreement did it in more than anything else. It looks like an Attack Helo if Silvan designed it. I remember reading about it. One of the prime reasons it was killed off wasn't Key West, it was it's performance envelope and attack profile put it square in the MANPAD sweet spot. Aren't Apaches using a similar attack profile in places like Afghanistan today? It is my understanding that the hovering-behind-shit attack profile the Apache was designed for has been abandoned. Can anyone enlighten me? these were designed to fight central europe, not 3rd world insurgents. check out syria videos. Helos are getting their ass handed to them. The hovering behind shit only works during peace time while you practicing with unarmed helicopters. Try hovering a loaded gunship full of fuel and armaments at 10,000 ft. like in Afghanistan. When we came back from Vietnam and they introduced the hovering behind trees & hills to make long range guided rocket kills against armor concept, we said say what? I laughed when I heard that the Apaches quickly abandoned their hovering fire in favor of diving running fire much like we employed in Vietnam. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/26/2013 4:07:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder what the AF will have to say when the V-280 and SB-1 have their fly-off. What's the J in JMR stand for? |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
