[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Starship troopers. The real one. (Page 2 of 4)
|
Morality Man has no moral instinct. He is not born with moral sense. You were not born with it, I was not born with it. We acquire moral sense, through training, experience, and hard sweat of the mind. What is moral sense? It is an elaboration of the instinct to survive. The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations. The truth is mathematically demonstrable, everywhere verifiable; it is the single eternal imperative controlling everything we do. The instinct to survive can be cultivated into motivations more subtle and much more complex then the blind, brute urge of the individual to stay alive. The basis of all morality is duty, a concept with the same relation to group that self-interest has to individual. R. Heinlein Africa disproves this. But don't take my word for it, watch The Cannibal Warlords of Liberia. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
although the big themes from the book are gone in the movie a surprising amount of stuff in the movie was in the book, including some dialogue word for word but then there is other stuff that they sort of took but then twisted around, like Zim's career a faithful movie would be more of a drama than an action movie Dizzy had a penis  In some of Heinlein's later works that wouldn't be seen as a problem. Keep reading. You'll grok it eventually. Maybe. |
|
Quoted:
The parallels in Troopers ( the book) really make me worry about where we are at today. And that is on both sides of the metaphors. ON THE BOUNCE SOLDIER! That's the power of SciFi. Jules Verne gave us aerial warfare, tanks, travel to the moon and nuclear submarines when the world was still using coal and steam. |
|
It's a favorite of mine - the book, that is.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The book is definitely NOTHING like the movie. I've heard that the director/writer/whatever of the movie started reading the book and said it was "too depressing" so he stopped and just made the movie how it was. I personally think that the movie and book were both terrible..could not get into the book at all and did not enjoy it. Not an infantryman. As an Infantryman, I approve this message. Note to self, find Mobile Infantry Morale patch. While based on the movie there's a few out there: 
|
|
Quoted: Quoted: The book is definitely NOTHING like the movie. I've heard that the director/writer/whatever of the movie started reading the book and said it was "too depressing" so he stopped and just made the movie how it was. I personally think that the movie and book were both terrible..could not get into the book at all and did not enjoy it. Not an infantryman. 'Ol Bobby Heinlein was Navy. And he got tons of hate mail over starship troopers. Because of how the military were in his book, and the themes of patriotism and honor. Meanwhile, after Stranger In A Strange Land came out, hippies would show up at his house, then get pissy because he wasn't a hippie and wouldn't let them stay there. The hippies didn't grok very fully.  |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
that lead me to The Moon is a Harsh Mistress which is fucking fantastic looking at your avatar I'd have never guessed you liked The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
I think the only problem I have with the book is that they changed its name from 'The Brass Cannon'. That was such a perfect title. |
|
Quoted:
Holy hell, I know books are always better than the movie, but HOLY HELL! They bear so little resemblance to one another other than a few names, they really are two totally different stories. The movie is about killing bugs, the book is about anything but! If you haven't read it, you're depriving yourself of a wonderful experience. DO IT! how many nude scenes did the book have? 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Holy hell, I know books are always better than the movie, but HOLY HELL! They bear so little resemblance to one another other than a few names, they really are two totally different stories. The movie is about killing bugs, the book is about anything but! If you haven't read it, you're depriving yourself of a wonderful experience. DO IT! how many nude scenes did the book have? In the book, I think Juan Rico got to kiss his girl.....once. Remember, the book was written to be one of the Heinlein Juveniles. He originally sent it to Scribner's, and it was rejected as not being suitable for children. Heinlein took it to G.P. Putnam, they wanted a juvenile, they published it without ever figuring out that it was somewhat more mature, and Heinlein won the Hugo Award for the best S.F novel of the year. |
|
I wasn't impressed by Starship Troopers. It was too long winded on the pedantic political ideology. Rico was a a vehicle to deliver ideology, and Heinlein forgot to include character development... or a story.
The Forever War: better than Starship Troopers, same genre Farnhams Freehold: better than Starship Troopers, same author Enders Game: pure awesome (Speaker for the Dead is completely different, but still very good) I need to read the Moon is a Harsh Mistress, but Earth Unaware by Card is next on the scifi plate. |
|
While it's based on a US/Soviet alliance (the CoDominum), you cannot beat Jerry Pournelle's "The Prince" series for politics, infantry tactics, and just plain badassary. I've read most of Heinlein, Armor, Old Man's War, etc. I've read a lot of SciFi over the years. This is almost impossible to beat. |
|
Quoted:
You are just now reading it? Its been out since 1959. I left the movie theater half way through that abomination. Oh, they've got no time for glory in the Infantry. Oh, they've got no use for praises loudly sung, But in every soldier's heart in all the Infantry Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young. .... I had to listen to a Commander sing that to us while we stood in formation |
|
Quoted:
The best Starship Troopers Movie Yet  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRhg1_BWHwM&feature=share&list=PL89A6102384166E9BYou know, I was thinking HALO was a better adaptation than the movie before I started the vid. |
|
Quoted: As far as preferring Card over Heinlein... Meh. They are both good, but they do things in different ways. Both are excellent at what they do. By far my favorite scifi short of any type is Heinlein's The Long Watch. The Forever War(Joe Haldeman) is another good scifi war book. Thanks, just read it. Good short. |
|
Quoted:
Aliens is a better Starship Troopers movie than the Starship Troopers movie. And Strange Days is a better Johnny Mnemonic movie than the Johnny Mnemonic movie. All of the Aliens movies were terrible. Starship Troopers was entertaining in both book and movie form. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
............ Enders Game is another good one. I much prefer Card to Heinlen . The whole 'Ender' series is incredible SciFi reading . Big +1 there. Loved the follow up on Bean. Speaker for the Dead was a bit slow and took me forever to get through, but was still good - and the ending of the whole series was pretty impressive. Definitely top class sci-fi from beginning to end. As far as preferring Card over Heinlein... Meh. They are both good, but they do things in different ways. Both are excellent at what they do. By far my favorite scifi short of any type is Heinlein's The Long Watch. The Forever War(Joe Haldeman) is another good scifi war book. I eventually got tired of OSC. Always w/ the adolescent boys... Ardoud dialogue. The Ender's series was pretty good, read it as an adolescent. Read the first one again as adult I think. But some of his other, more fantasy stuff... The whole series about the oversoul and returnin to earth after six million years was alright, just a little slow moving perhaps. Definitely some good pholosophy. I'll have to read some heinlen and this Moon mistress book. But still, the best book ever I guess is gates of fire, followed by the Illiad or maybe the bible |
|
Quoted:
Morality Man has no moral instinct. He is not born with moral sense. You were not born with it, I was not born with it. We acquire moral sense, through training, experience, and hard sweat of the mind. What is moral sense? It is an elaboration of the instinct to survive. The instinct to survive is human nature itself, and every aspect of our personalities derives from it. Anything that conflicts with the survival instinct acts sooner or later to eliminate the individual and thereby fails to show up in future generations. The truth is mathematically demonstrable, everywhere verifiable; it is the single eternal imperative controlling everything we do. The instinct to survive can be cultivated into motivations more subtle and much more complex then the blind, brute urge of the individual to stay alive. The basis of all morality is duty, a concept with the same relation to group that self-interest has to individual. R. Heinlein Africa disproves this. But don't take my word for it, watch The Cannibal Warlords of Liberia. Yep, sociopaths are easily 1 in 25 of the (male) population. They have no moral sense, only reptilian calculations & the prudence to imitate social virtues when people are looking. There is no reason to believe that these deformed are going out of existence any time soon, especially since they often subsidize their reproduction by getting paid by .gov w/ eitehr wellfare, gov jobs or as politicians. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You are just now reading it? Its been out since 1959. I left the movie theater half way through that abomination. Oh, they've got no time for glory in the Infantry. Oh, they've got no use for praises loudly sung, But in every soldier's heart in all the Infantry Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young. .... I had to listen to a Commander sing that to us while we stood in formation I'd have made the whole Company sing it if I was CO. Song sheets out to Plt Sgts and mandatory practice. Whenever someone would bitch about a "hokey traditions" I would remind them that these are OUR infantry traditions. If we don't keep them alive, who will? Pvt. Roger Young in particular is worthy of remembrance. Not just for his bravery in combat but because voluntarily gave up his stripes and his SL billet when he felt he was too deaf and nearsighted to stay in a leadership role. |
|
Quoted:
ST was a fun B movie. Never read the book so I wasnt all butt hurt about how unlike the book it was. ALL OTHER BOOKS ARE DILDOS COMPARED TO GATES OF FIRE by STEVEN PRESSFIELD. YOU WELCOME FAGS Do you dream often about swarthy muscular men in curiass, greaves and a miniskirt? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
although the big themes from the book are gone in the movie a surprising amount of stuff in the movie was in the book, including some dialogue word for word but then there is other stuff that they sort of took but then twisted around, like Zim's career a faithful movie would be more of a drama than an action movie Dizzy had a penis
|
|
Quoted: The book is definitely NOTHING like the movie. I've heard that the director/writer/whatever of the movie started reading the book and said it was "too depressing" so he stopped and just made the movie how it was. I personally think that the movie and book were both terrible..could not get into the book at all and did not enjoy it. The book is the real deal. The movie(s) is it's distant cousin from the West Coast. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
although the big themes from the book are gone in the movie a surprising amount of stuff in the movie was in the book, including some dialogue word for word but then there is other stuff that they sort of took but then twisted around, like Zim's career a faithful movie would be more of a drama than an action movie Dizzy had a penis Dizzy in the movie: 
In the book the ONLY mixing of the sexes was in officer country, on a few ships, and dizzy was a dude.. |