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Posted: 7/15/2008 5:45:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 12:07:31 PM EST by Paulie771]
I just had to put a claim in on my firearms policy with USAA. Let just say that a certain EBR no longer has the left side of the upper and my hand is damned sore. I'm not going into details, as I haven't even spoken to the ammo manufacturer yet, but they weren't hand loads, and I had just shot 19 of this particular round.

So the question is, anyone dealt with these guys on this subject before?

And the pics I'm sure lots of you want to see. The last one is of my small cut I received. I'm very lucky this is all that happened to me, other than a really sore hand and some bruising.

We think now that the RAS rails and the ACOG mount were about the only thing that kept the top of the upper from coming off in my face as well. Notice in the pics how the piece that came off starting running down where the mounts are. Also see where the extractor has some of the rim embedded in it.













This is the chamber. The casing, minus the rim and pocket. I have those in a bag to turn into the manufacturer.


The only damage I received. My medic wife (that's her leg, assholes) thought it would be a great chance to torture her gun loving husband with alcohol, perocide, and probing instruments.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:01:18 AM EST
No, but you have my undivided attention. USAA has always been fantastic with my auto insurance and loans
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:02:48 AM EST
what kind of ammo
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:06:51 AM EST
I'm not going to ask what kind of ammo, cause I'm sure you don't want to put that out yet and start that pissing war with the maker.

But, I will ask:

Any malfunctions in the previous rounds, especially the round prior to the kaboom?

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:08:53 AM EST
blown primer on the round before it, not a squib on either 2. I've shot 3-5k through this rifle, most of it from this manu, just not this load.

You are exactly right on why I'm not talking on rifle or ammo manufacturers.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:11:18 AM EST
Subtagtion for responses re: USAA.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:12:07 AM EST
There was a guy on here a while ago that had a KABOOM on an SBR AR15 and he named the ammo and the rifle asap. They worked with him and gave him a check covering everything, even the $200 stamp.

From what I recall, they wanted him to ship it to them AS IS without messing with it. So I wouldnt be messing with it.

FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, it was lake city, but I'm NOT SURE so dont quote me on that

I would post the details *shrugs*
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:15:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 6:18:29 AM EST by Mxpatriot51]

Originally Posted By Paulie771:
blown primer on the round before it, not a squib on either 2. I've shot 3-5k through this rifle, most of it from this manu, just not this load.

You are exactly right on why I'm not talking on rifle or ammo manufacturers.


Do you mean:

1. Primer was pierced, but remained in the primer pocket.

or

2. Primer was blown out of the primer pocket (in pieces)

#1 or #2 could mean over pressure (powder over charge or the bullet was crimped in way too tight), but #2 could also mean the flash hole was never drilled. I've seen that happen before.

Do you still have the previous 18 empty cases? (I assume the 19th was blown to pieces if the rifle was also).



Is this one of the larger ammo companies or a smaller, more independent/local one?


Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:16:50 AM EST
well, I've thought of that. however, I'm pretty good friends with the owners of the range I was shooting at, and they inturn have a good relationship with the owner of the company. They requested I hold off on reporting names and loads for the time being.

I fully want to let everyone know what happened, believe me. However, I will give them a chance to make it right before I start putting names out there. I understand that some people would do it different, but I'm fulfilling a request at this time.

If they don't make it right, believe you me, this will be all over every board I frequent.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:20:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paulie771:
well, I've thought of that. however, I'm pretty good friends with the owners of the range I was shooting at, and they inturn have a good relationship with the owner of the company. They requested I hold off on reporting names and loads for the time being.

I fully want to let everyone know what happened, believe me. However, I will give them a chance to make it right before I start putting names out there. I understand that some people would do it different, but I'm fulfilling a request at this time.

If they don't make it right, believe you me, this will be all over every board I frequent.


So I take it this is some local loader? Like the kind that sells small batches at the gunshow?

i.e. not like lake city, wolf, some big name like that.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:20:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mxpatriot51:

Originally Posted By Paulie771:
blown primer on the round before it, not a squib on either 2. I've shot 3-5k through this rifle, most of it from this manu, just not this load.

You are exactly right on why I'm not talking on rifle or ammo manufacturers.


Do you mean:

1. Primer was pierced, but remained in the primer pocket.

or

2. Primer was blown out of the primer pocket.

#1 or #2 could mean over pressure (powder over charge or the bullet was crimped in way too tight), but #2 could also mean the flash hole was never drilled. I've seen that happen before.

Do you still have the previous 18 empty cases? (I assume the 19th was blown to pieces if the rifle was also).



The primer was blown out of the pocket. Definate over pressure. We have that case, and the kaboom case, because it blew the entire rim and primer pocket off, and lodged the casing itself in the chamber, unlocked the lugs, and blew the left side of the upper off completely. It also split the carrier group in half, and lodged some pieces of it in the back of the trigger housing.

The really bad thing is that I have a VFG on the rifle, I normally hold there. However after the FTE on the blown primer, I cleared it, and held by the mag well. It was the first time in years I've held that way. I will never, EVER do that again!
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:20:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By almega:

Originally Posted By Paulie771:
well, I've thought of that. however, I'm pretty good friends with the owners of the range I was shooting at, and they inturn have a good relationship with the owner of the company. They requested I hold off on reporting names and loads for the time being.

I fully want to let everyone know what happened, believe me. However, I will give them a chance to make it right before I start putting names out there. I understand that some people would do it different, but I'm fulfilling a request at this time.

If they don't make it right, believe you me, this will be all over every board I frequent.


So I take it this is some local loader? Like the kind that sells small batches at the gunshow?

i.e. not like lake city, wolf, some big name like that.


It's a large company. Not Federal or Winchester, but not GA Arms or whatever either.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:23:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paulie771:

Originally Posted By almega:

Originally Posted By Paulie771:
well, I've thought of that. however, I'm pretty good friends with the owners of the range I was shooting at, and they inturn have a good relationship with the owner of the company. They requested I hold off on reporting names and loads for the time being.

I fully want to let everyone know what happened, believe me. However, I will give them a chance to make it right before I start putting names out there. I understand that some people would do it different, but I'm fulfilling a request at this time.

If they don't make it right, believe you me, this will be all over every board I frequent.


So I take it this is some local loader? Like the kind that sells small batches at the gunshow?

i.e. not like lake city, wolf, some big name like that.


It's a large company. Not Federal or Winchester, but not GA Arms or whatever either.


Ah ok, I was about to bash you for using some small podunk gun show loaders handloads

BTW, forgot to say that I'm glad you're ok. I would imagine you could have died if that hit your wrist!
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:23:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paulie771:

Originally Posted By Mxpatriot51:

Originally Posted By Paulie771:
blown primer on the round before it, not a squib on either 2. I've shot 3-5k through this rifle, most of it from this manu, just not this load.

You are exactly right on why I'm not talking on rifle or ammo manufacturers.


Do you mean:

1. Primer was pierced, but remained in the primer pocket.

or

2. Primer was blown out of the primer pocket.

#1 or #2 could mean over pressure (powder over charge or the bullet was crimped in way too tight), but #2 could also mean the flash hole was never drilled. I've seen that happen before.

Do you still have the previous 18 empty cases? (I assume the 19th was blown to pieces if the rifle was also).



The primer was blown out of the pocket. Definate over pressure. We have that case, and the kaboom case, because it blew the entire rim and primer pocket off, and lodged the casing itself in the chamber, unlocked the lugs, and blew the left side of the upper off completely. It also split the carrier group in half, and lodged some pieces of it in the back of the trigger housing.

The really bad thing is that I have a VFG on the rifle, I normally hold there. However after the FTE on the blown primer, I cleared it, and held by the mag well. It was the first time in years I've held that way. I will never, EVER do that again!


What about the previous round?



Have you checked the barrel for the last round fired too?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:24:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 6:27:17 AM EST by JDC_VA_USMC]
Is this a specific policy you have with USAA regarding firearms, or they covered under your existing homeowners policy? I have a USAA homeowners policy that covers my firearms up to a certain limit, and I'm wondering if there is a specific firearms policy or rider I should have...

Thanks.

ETA: Nevermind, found it on the USAA website. Looks like I need a specific policy to add extra coverage beyond that provided with the homeowners.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:30:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By JDC_VA_USMC:
Is this a specific policy you have with USAA regarding firearms, or they covered under your existing homeowners policy? I have a USAA homeowners policy that covers my firearms up to a certain limit, and I'm wondering if there is a specific firearms policy or rider I should have...

Thanks.


Typically homeowners policies will cover 1500-2500. 1500 was the norm in Ohio when I was shopping for homeowners insurance. I got lucky and got 2500, but I dont use it.

Actually, my homeowners insurance wouldnt cover damage like this, only theft / damage in the house. Even if it did, you dont want to make a claim on your homeowners insurance for an AR, it will cost you more in the long run.

I got a seperate policy for my firearms (now that I'm into Title II) and they cover the guns anywhere. Its pretty cheap and covers a boatload, only downside is that I have to list my serial #'s. Since I buy guns fairly often, I use the coverage from my homeowners policy to protect them till next year when I specifically list them on my seperate policy.

My agent (who carries) even said "say you are in a boat and you lean over and drop your glock in the lake, you will be reimbursed". I thought it was pretty damn funny and I said "tragic boating accident huh?". He sat there like , he totally didnt get it.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:36:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By JDC_VA_USMC:
Is this a specific policy you have with USAA regarding firearms, or they covered under your existing homeowners policy? I have a USAA homeowners policy that covers my firearms up to a certain limit, and I'm wondering if there is a specific firearms policy or rider I should have...

Thanks.

ETA: Nevermind, found it on the USAA website. Looks like I need a specific policy to add extra coverage beyond that provided with the homeowners.


No, this is not a home owners claim, this is a valuable personal property claim on $10,500 worth of coverage for all my firearms, since my F-class rig alone is worth about double what homeowners covers. I pay $176 a year for this coverage, with no deductible and covers this sort of stuff, supposedly. We'll see.

I am supposed to be called by the property adjuster today or tomorrow, possibly Thursday. I'll post what they do. I'm worried USAA will try to take the rifle before I can get the ammo people to look at it.

I'll keep everyone appraised.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:37:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mxpatriot51:

Originally Posted By Paulie771:

Originally Posted By Mxpatriot51:

Originally Posted By Paulie771:
blown primer on the round before it, not a squib on either 2. I've shot 3-5k through this rifle, most of it from this manu, just not this load.

You are exactly right on why I'm not talking on rifle or ammo manufacturers.


Do you mean:

1. Primer was pierced, but remained in the primer pocket.

or

2. Primer was blown out of the primer pocket.

#1 or #2 could mean over pressure (powder over charge or the bullet was crimped in way too tight), but #2 could also mean the flash hole was never drilled. I've seen that happen before.

Do you still have the previous 18 empty cases? (I assume the 19th was blown to pieces if the rifle was also).



The primer was blown out of the pocket. Definate over pressure. We have that case, and the kaboom case, because it blew the entire rim and primer pocket off, and lodged the casing itself in the chamber, unlocked the lugs, and blew the left side of the upper off completely. It also split the carrier group in half, and lodged some pieces of it in the back of the trigger housing.

The really bad thing is that I have a VFG on the rifle, I normally hold there. However after the FTE on the blown primer, I cleared it, and held by the mag well. It was the first time in years I've held that way. I will never, EVER do that again!


What about the previous round?



Have you checked the barrel for the last round fired too?


I didn't check the round, but I'm 99% sure I saw the bullet hole appear, and on counting the rounds in target, we came up with 14-18, depending out how many were in the main group. It didnt' feel like a light round, and fully recoiled.

I had a batch of bad Radway Green surplus that would blow primers every 10-20 rounds. Never had a squib out if, and the previous round on this time felt the exact same way, hence not checking. I guess I'll have to add that to my malfunctions check....
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 6:56:47 AM EST
So what exactly are you going to do? Are you going to try to get USAA to cover it, or try to get the ammo company to cover it?

Seems like the ammo company should cover it.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 8:56:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By almega:
So what exactly are you going to do? Are you going to try to get USAA to cover it, or try to get the ammo company to cover it?

Seems like the ammo company should cover it.


I'm going to see how the USAA policy works to find out if I'm going to keep it. I might take the claim, depends on what the ammo manu. says/offers.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 8:56:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2008 8:56:29 AM EST by Paulie771]
double tap
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 9:02:16 AM EST
i have usaa valuable property coverage on a few things in my home and am very interested in the outcome.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 9:04:53 AM EST
Wow, that was one helluva kaboom.

Maybe that round was loaded with pistol powder? I don't think you get enough rifle powder in a .223 case to do that much damage.

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 9:05:15 AM EST
I shitcanned my USAA after extremely poor customer service in dealing with an auto claim.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 9:09:19 AM EST
Great merciful crap!

Glad you still have your thumb intact.

Would like to know how this turns out.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 9:21:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By almega:

Originally Posted By JDC_VA_USMC:
Is this a specific policy you have with USAA regarding firearms, or they covered under your existing homeowners policy? I have a USAA homeowners policy that covers my firearms up to a certain limit, and I'm wondering if there is a specific firearms policy or rider I should have...

Thanks.


Typically homeowners policies will cover 1500-2500. 1500 was the norm in Ohio when I was shopping for homeowners insurance. I got lucky and got 2500, but I dont use it.

Actually, my homeowners insurance wouldnt cover damage like this, only theft / damage in the house. Even if it did, you dont want to make a claim on your homeowners insurance for an AR, it will cost you more in the long run.

I got a seperate policy for my firearms (now that I'm into Title II) and they cover the guns anywhere. Its pretty cheap and covers a boatload, only downside is that I have to list my serial #'s. Since I buy guns fairly often, I use the coverage from my homeowners policy to protect them till next year when I specifically list them on my seperate policy.

My agent (who carries) even said "say you are in a boat and you lean over and drop your glock in the lake, you will be reimbursed". I thought it was pretty damn funny and I said "tragic boating accident huh?". He sat there like , he totally didnt get it.


Sounds like a great policy!

Might I ask who you got it through. I'm going to have to get a policy pretty soon here.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 9:26:24 AM EST
Tag...

Obviously, even a forged receiver will fail at some point...
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 9:29:04 AM EST
I filed a claim for stolen hand guns (stolen when I was at a funeral and probably by someone who knew I was gone almost guaranteed military officer)

They prefer to replace like with like, not cash.

Which pissed me off because my 1911 model 70 was replaced with a 1991.

If they can't replace, they will give you cash. IE, they offered a G17 for a G19, but I wanted the G19, so they gave me the cash.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 9:30:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2008 9:54:38 AM EST by 87GN]

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
I filed a claim for stolen hand guns (stolen when I was at a funeral and probably by someone who knew I was gone almost guaranteed military officer)

They prefer to replace like with like, not cash.

Which pissed me off because my 1911 model 70 was replaced with a 1991.

If they can't replace, they will give you cash. IE, they offered a G17 for a G19, but I wanted the G19, so they gave me the cash.


do they have a big room full of guns that they just pick and choose from to give you?

in what universe does a series 70 = 1991?
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:07:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
I filed a claim for stolen hand guns (stolen when I was at a funeral and probably by someone who knew I was gone almost guaranteed military officer)

They prefer to replace like with like, not cash.

Which pissed me off because my 1911 model 70 was replaced with a 1991.

If they can't replace, they will give you cash. IE, they offered a G17 for a G19, but I wanted the G19, so they gave me the cash.


do they have a big room full of guns that they just pick and choose from to give you?

in what universe does a series 70 = 1991?

they buy common guns in bulk with good pricing so its cheaper to replace than give MSRP cash.

Tell me, I argued for hours and they wouldn't budge.

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:11:51 AM EST
Let me get this straight, you let your wife probe you? ghey.

Kharn
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:16:24 AM EST
Out of battery?
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:21:29 AM EST
Dang, Glad to see you made it out with just the scratch, could have been worse.

Keep us posted!
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:23:25 AM EST
Aluminium makes such a wonderful material for building firearm receivers. /sarcasm

Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:26:26 AM EST



that's a weird KB. i've never seen an AR KB where the LEFT side was blown off the upper, but the RIGHT side was basically intact. when AR's fail, they typically blow everything out/apart on the right side through the ejection port side.

strange.


Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:32:17 AM EST
Nice! When did Glock start making ARs?
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:34:28 AM EST
You paint your toenails???
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:36:46 AM EST
never had to make a gun claim with them but they did fully cover a stolen $400 chainsaw without blinking an eye for me a few years ago and have always been great with hail and storm damage on various vehicles. I've got a $15,000 rider on my renters insurance with them just for my guns. Look forward to hearing what they tell you.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:37:10 AM EST
Interested in USAA's response as well.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:37:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Paulie771:
snip
.... My medic wife (that's her leg, assholes)......instruments.
i38.tinypic.com/5oh0dt.jpg



yeah ok
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:40:12 AM EST
It blew the bolt carrier in half? WOW, thats some seriously hardened steel. I understand the aluminum upper, but not the bolt carrier.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:41:45 AM EST
Tag. If I ever need my USAA firearms policy it'll be interesting to see how well they treat people. From Sylvan's experience though it doesn't sound great. I'd rather have cash for any and all guns and let me decide how to spend it.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:42:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
Tag. If I ever need my USAA firearms policy it'll be interesting to see how well they treat people. From Sylvan's experience though it doesn't sound great. I'd rather have cash for any and all guns and let me decide how to spend it.


Yeah, that's like them saying "Hey, sorry you wrecked your Ducati 1098, here's a Monster 620, it's the same thing..."
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:44:09 AM EST
OST.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:46:00 AM EST
OST as well...
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:50:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By 87GN:

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
Tag. If I ever need my USAA firearms policy it'll be interesting to see how well they treat people. From Sylvan's experience though it doesn't sound great. I'd rather have cash for any and all guns and let me decide how to spend it.


Yeah, that's like them saying "Hey, sorry you wrecked your Ducati 1098, here's a Monster 620, it's the same thing..."


Pretty much. I guess I'll look into the NRA's insurance, not sure I want to trust USAA with my guns now. I have a lot of pretty weird stuff in my collection, and no, I don't want a Remington 870 to replace my Benelli M4.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:53:52 AM EST
tagged
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 10:58:30 AM EST
I'm interested in the outcome.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 11:05:44 AM EST
damn, that is the worst AR kb i have seen, glad you are alright amigo.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 11:28:21 AM EST
Perfect picture of why I'm a touch scared of Bullpup rifles.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 11:32:44 AM EST
Nice foot
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