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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/30/2005 9:09:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:12:43 AM EDT
I think we have enough foreigners and most of them aren't worth shit, so... yes.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:13:48 AM EDT
YES
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:17:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 9:45:43 AM EDT by napalm]

Originally Posted By mojo:
In a provision that could invite a constitutional challenge, the bill would end the practice of granting U.S. citizenship to any child born in the United States, unless at least one of the parents is in the country legally. The 14th Amendment to the Constitution declares that all people born or naturalized in the United States, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," are U.S. citizens.





It doesn't go far enough. Their children shouldn't automatically receive citizenship just because they're here legally. Otherwise under Hayworth's proposal they'll just get their 6 year work visa, come to the US and squirt out a couple of anchor babies, and voila, a couple of instant US citizens and they're set for life in the land of the big PX. All that does is turn the supposed 6 year work visa into a way to get their foot in the door, thereby nullifying the damn 6 year work visa in the first place.





Their children shouldn't receive automatic citizenship unless at least one of the parents is a citizen.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:23:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Their children shouldn't receive automatic citizenship unless at least one of the parent's is a citizen.




I agree.

Coming from Europe - where MOST of the countries go by that kind of a rule, it always surprised me that you just have to be born on U.S. soil to be an american. So any pregnant tourist can end up with a U.S. citizen as a child?

It certainly seems odd when you are not used to that kind of system. In most countries I've lived in, your citizenship is determined by that of your parents, and it has nothing to do with where you happen to be born.


Not saying that some "European" way is "better" - just that it certainly is an unusual system, and maybe not well suited to these days of rampant illegal immigration and "anchor babies".
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:26:18 AM EDT
No. We shouldn't change the Constitution because .gov can't run the border patrol worth a shit. Fire whoever has screwed up our border patrol and fix the problem that way.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:38:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 9:39:16 AM EDT by Orwell84]
Yeah this is a brilliant idea; there are what 20 million illegals in the US? 20,000,000 * 40,000 = 800,000,000,000 that’s 800 billion dollars that it would take every year to incarcerate them. Yeah, I’ll pass our deficit is already high enough; this is officially one of the dumbest ideas ever. Lets spend MORE money on these people, yeah that will fix the problem!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:40:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:43:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Orwell84:
Yeah this is a brilliant idea; there are what 20 million illegals in the US? 20,000,000 * 40,000 = 800,000,000,000 that’s 800 billion dollars that it would take every year to incarcerate them. Yeah, I’ll pass our deficit is already high enough; this is officially one of the dumbest ideas ever. Lets spend MORE money on these people, yeah that will fix the problem!



Your numbers are way overinflated. Most illegals woudl not necessarily be incarcerated, but just deported. Spending a little bit of money on the border would ensure that the majority woudl NOT re-enter. A large part of the problem CAN be fixed at relatively low cost - there just isn't the political will to fix it. Money is NOT the problem here.


What idea do you have that's better?


Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:52:03 AM EDT
Ialways thought it would be cheaper just to build a 20 foot electric fence all alon ghte border.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:01:25 AM EDT
Well, I'll be honest, I am planning on coming to the US for my next child (and every thereafter) I am saving up for it, because it is not cheap. But I am NOT doing it so my wife and I have anchor babies, I am doing it so that my Children can chose to live in the US or Canuckastan once they reach their majority

Simple as that. This illegally entering the US is bullshit, I woudl say the same for illegally entering Canada, but this country of mine hands out landed immigrant status as well as citizenship like candy
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:05:49 AM EDT
I like the idea of this, but I'm always a little leery about messing with the Constitution. If we get our way with it today, someone else may get their way with it tomorrow, think about it. If we were to get this amendment changed in a way that conservatives support, just imagine what liberals may do in the future to other amendments. Don't we already have laws in place that could be better enforced without the need for a change to the Constitution ?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:06:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wraithtouch:
Ialways thought it would be cheaper just to build a 20 foot electric fence all alon ghte border.



Machine guns....guard towers ?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 10:06:43 AM EDT
This may help....

Or....

Close most of the army bases around the country, and build a 1 mile wide by 2000 mile long
army base on the border. They have actual SECURITY on army bases...

Just a thought
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:34:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:41:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nefarius:
This may help....

Or....

Close most of the army bases around the country, and build a 1 mile wide by 2000 mile long
army base on the border. They have actual SECURITY on army bases...

Just a thought



Within two weeks there would be Mexicans cutting the grass and emptying the trash on that base.
Guaranteed.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:43:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:
Their children shouldn't receive automatic citizenship unless at least one of the parents is a citizen.


ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY!!!

Link Posted: 9/30/2005 11:59:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 12:06:56 PM EDT by nightstalker]
Our citizenship law masquerades as benificent but in reality is unmitigated horseshit. Just another "entitlement" with no substance or responsibility attached.

ETA I think, under these proposals we'd have the option to deport at sentencing. Incarcerating illegals doesn't make sense.

I read something this week that farmers in the Central Valley in CA are having problems getting enough workers to pick some crops. The workers can make more money in construction.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:13:38 PM EDT
Yes, I do have a better solution than spending insane amounts of money. How about we eliminate ALL social welfare programs including government schools, welfare, Medicare, food stamps, and everything else? People can’t take advantage of the “system” if there is no “system”. If you eliminate those factor then the low-life leeches won’t come any more and you will be able to open up the boarders entirely, because only hardworking and motivated people will come, thus simulating the economy. There is no reason to fear immigration, the only thing to fear from it is immigrants leeching off tax payers, if they are willing to pay their own way then let them come, who are we to stop them? We were all immigrants at one point; even the Native Americans were immigrants if you go back far enough.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:17:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
No. We shouldn't change the Constitution because .gov can't run the border patrol worth a shit. Fire whoever has screwed up our border patrol and fix the problem that way.



There ya go.
How many times have we, as gunowners, said Enforce existing laws, before passing new ones
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:20:27 PM EDT
NO. They are already gradually rolling back the 1st, 2nd, 4th. We do not change it because Border Patrol is ordered to stand down.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:23:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
No. We shouldn't change the Constitution because .gov can't run the border patrol worth a shit. Fire whoever has screwed up our border patrol and fix the problem that way.



That is one of the best posts here in a long time.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:27:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By happycynic:
No. We shouldn't change the Constitution because .gov can't run the border patrol worth a shit. Fire whoever has screwed up our border patrol and fix the problem that way.



That is one of the best posts here in a long time.



There's still the question of citizenship for anchor babies.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:36:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Orwell84:
Yes, I do have a better solution than spending insane amounts of money. How about we eliminate ALL social welfare programs including government schools, welfare, Medicare, food stamps, and everything else? People can’t take advantage of the “system” if there is no “system”. If you eliminate those factor then the low-life leeches won’t come any more and you will be able to open up the boarders entirely, because only hardworking and motivated people will come, thus simulating the economy. There is no reason to fear immigration, the only thing to fear from it is immigrants leeching off tax payers, if they are willing to pay their own way then let them come, who are we to stop them? We were all immigrants at one point; even the Native Americans were immigrants if you go back far enough.



we're working on it, corporate welfare too.

Still it's in our best interests to KNOW who's coming here.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 12:53:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Orwell84:
Yeah this is a brilliant idea; there are what 20 million illegals in the US? 20,000,000 * 40,000 = 800,000,000,000 that’s 800 billion dollars that it would take every year to incarcerate them. Yeah, I’ll pass our deficit is already high enough; this is officially one of the dumbest ideas ever. Lets spend MORE money on these people, yeah that will fix the problem!



Your numbers are way overinflated. Most illegals woudl not necessarily be incarcerated, but just deported.



Isn't that what they do with them now? And let's say that they deport 90 percent and jail the rest. That still leaves two million to be jailed. Doesn't that mean we would have to build at least one new prison cell for every prison and jail cell that now exists?

If you jail just ten percent of them then it seems to me that the illegal aliens are going to figure that IF they get caught then the odds are about 9 to 1 that they just get a free ride home. Yeah, some deterrent.


Spending a little bit of money on the border would ensure that the majority woudl NOT re-enter. A large part of the problem CAN be fixed at relatively low cost - there just isn't the political will to fix it. Money is NOT the problem here.


So how much would it cost to seal the borders? We can start by just giving your best estimate of the number of people required to do it. IIRC, this topic came up before and there wasn't one person on the whole forum who had any clue what it would cost.



What idea do you have that's better?



Do some simple math before you start making any grand plans.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:14:14 PM EDT
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