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Posted: 8/15/2004 6:03:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Assuming one of the involved parties is willing to go through the transfer hassle, I think it's great. After all, a preban is just a 10-year old version of what we can get new next month.
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Posted: 8/15/2004 6:47:15 PM EDT
[#2]
btt
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Posted: 8/15/2004 6:52:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Garandman, I think it is a great idea, I have a brand new post ban bushmaster lower plus some cash that I am willing to trade for a preban colt/bushmaster (with the raised fencing) if your interested Garandman let me know.
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Posted: 8/15/2004 6:53:25 PM EDT
[#4]
I would certainly consider it!
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Posted: 8/15/2004 6:58:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Here's my thoughts...
First I want to wait until the election. If Kerry wins, I'm not selling / trading it. Second, if Kerry does win, I can see them passing a new AWB - one that is retroactive to 1994. Keeping my pre 94 preban makes me un touchable. (Far as retroavctive laws - NEVER underestimate Dems hatred for your guns) I just feel real hesitant to sell. I'm emotionally attached to this lower I WAAAAAYYY overpaid for.  |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:01:04 PM EDT
[#6]
That's EXACTLY what I'm thinking...if Bush gets in I'll do it maybe. |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:14:57 PM EDT
[#7]
I would like to know, can they retroactively do that? It would seem to me, if the ban sunsets, they can't make another ban later on and have it go retroactive to 1993. They would have to start from the date that the bill was signed right? If they went retroactive, then you would have pre-bans, post-bans and pre-post-bans. I doubt they could make a law with it having a retroactive part. |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:20:18 PM EDT
[#8]
No.
That's a bandaid to the problem. They should work to fix the laws, or take their money and leave. I did. |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:34:12 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:34:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Easy answer....No.
Move to a free zone...
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:35:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Damn, took my answer! Really poeple, let's band together. 
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:37:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Easily said for someone who lives in a "free zone." |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:45:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Did you live in Florida before 1987 when they passed concealed carry there? When did Arizona get concealed carry, 1994? Texas 1995? How come droves of oppressed gun owners didn't move to NY for the many decades when NY issued CCW licensez and all those other states didn't? Were they filled with bleeting sheep? Did they just "know" that in 20-30 years that those states would have CCW? Or was it because most normal people don't leave their homes, jobs and loved ones over gun laws, no matter how much they say that on the internet? |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:48:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Some of you are so politically retarded.
Who do you think is gonna pass an AWB? Kerry all by himself? (Sigh) D. AZEX |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:50:27 PM EDT
[#15]
related - something that never gets discussed is the MASSIVE Civil Disobedience that went on here when Registration went into effect. IIRC, something like 80% of the number of 'assault weapons' the Grabbers knew to be imported into the State failed to materialize for Registration. Just a couple news stories when it first went down, and NOTHING since. |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:50:40 PM EDT
[#16]
True, but I made it a point to relocate to a free zone. Easier said than done I know. It took me 3 years to plan my move (money and such). It's was worth it.
-My county is one of these most conservative ones in the state of FLA. -Sheriff signs ALL my Form 4s & Form 1s. Here is to hoping you make it out! The grass can be greener on the other side! 
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Posted: 8/15/2004 7:52:20 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 8/15/2004 8:02:24 PM EDT
[#18]
I also have a preban I was thinking of selling reasonably to someone in a state that doens't have the sunset. What states are we looking at that don't have it? I know CA is out, and CT is an option. What other states? I have a little Olympic CAR 15 I'd sell.
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Posted: 8/15/2004 8:05:21 PM EDT
[#19]
We've had OPEN CARRY since statehood, nice try. 
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Posted: 8/15/2004 8:05:27 PM EDT
[#20]
I would never sell a gun period. If I had any.
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Posted: 8/15/2004 8:07:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Thank you Aimless, I can't stand folks who give me crap for living in such an anti gun state, but they don't realize CT legalized CCW before TX did. Oh yea, for all you folks who recommend simply moving, would you leave your family, friends, job, home, culture and comfort just to add a bayonet lug, collapsible stock and flash hider to your AR15? |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 9:22:18 PM EDT
[#22]
NTSA !!! 
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Posted: 8/15/2004 9:30:40 PM EDT
[#23]
And in the mean-time...we're on our own??? |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 9:38:13 PM EDT
[#24]
This is such a non-issue
How many states are we talking about? 2? 3? Does anyone know? I keep hearing Massachusetts mentioned as one of them but I seem to remember the pre-94 clause was stripped before passage. Conneticut? Maybe 5 guys in the whole state understand the law and how it applies. We are talking about a real small number of potential buyers here. Remember, people living in these states can still buy "post" bans unlike California. If someone living in one of these states REALLY wants a pre94, he can find tons to buy on gunbroker............CHEAP. They don't need charity. |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 10:15:52 PM EDT
[#25]
I don't own any pre-94 weapons, but I'll probably sell off some mags to guys in states that can't get new ones and then buy new ones myself.
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Posted: 8/15/2004 10:22:29 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 8/15/2004 10:31:27 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm not finding anything "cheap" yet. Prices have dropped but not substantially.... still plenty of asshats trying to gouge me out $2000 whenever I ask "How much for the pre-ban?"
There are a few of us, especially those who got into ARs after the ban, who could use the charity swaps. Our ban isn't goin anywhere and the "suck it up" or "move to a free state" attitude is not helping us get a tele stock  - BUCC_Guy (Live in CT... school in PA) |
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Posted: 8/15/2004 10:33:26 PM EDT
[#28]
+1 |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 1:24:21 AM EDT
[#29]
It helps to read the whole post before you jump on someone for being "wrong" |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 2:25:33 AM EDT
[#30]
I live in Oregon and I tend to sell most of my stuff from time to time. I have never ever asked to see a drivers licence.
That would be rude. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 2:38:22 AM EDT
[#31]
There is no such thing as "untouchable". There is no reason they HAVE to grandfather anything. They could very well 'forget' to include a grandfather clause that excludes all assault weapons made before the ban. I'm not saying that its likely, just that it could happen. Don't assume anything. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 3:54:35 AM EDT
[#32]
If a new ban comes down that is retroactive to 94 (and is passed after 9/13/04), we're in a lot more trouble than just not having bayonet lugs and flash hiders. All it takes is one minute of the AWB being expired and we all have new prebans (you did drive over to your buddy's and pick up your stash of flash hiders, bayonet lugs and telestocks at midnight, right?) that cannot be taken away. A law cannot be retroactive and survive court review, it would be struck down for ex post facto, which any new law passed after 9/13/04 and made applicable to all guns made after 94 would be.
Anybody that refuses to sell prebans to the guys in the AWB states because of a possible future ban is ignorant of how the legislative process works. Help a fellow ARf member out and trade any spares you have (besides family or otherwise important guns), I'd do the same if I had any prebans, and I'd ask the same if I was in a AWB state. fight4yourrights: I'm talking especially to you, do you think those of us still stuck in MD shouldnt bother purchasing pre-lock handguns from out of state because we could theoretically fight to get the lock law reversed? Some of the people on here have about a worse chance of getting the state-level AWB reversed than MD'ers have of getting the lock law removed. 1Andy2: No, they *must* either: 1. grandfather guns or 2. offer just compensation for the confiscated firearms. Thats the way our legal system works, you cannot be deprived of property by law without compensation. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:09:07 AM EDT
[#33]
Bingo-most likely any new ban will either allow grandfathered "pre-bans" manufactured post September 04 or the .gov will have to pay for them. I can't figure a way around the "pre-bans" that will be manufactured over the next few months. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:11:06 AM EDT
[#34]
NOT so easy, but some HAVE done it. Freedom at ANY price is a bargain. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:15:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Then tell me this -
If you want someones preban are you willing to pony up the $900 they paid for the lower origianlly?? Or are you asking them to take a hit?? |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:37:08 AM EDT
[#36]
I don't own any pre-bans. If I did, I'd be making arrangements with someone in one of the "resricted" areas for an after the sunset sale. I'd do this regardless of what I originally paid for the rifle/lower. All I'd want is a replacement lower of equal quality. If I paid $900 for a pre-ban lower two years ago, after the sunset it will be worth less than a brand new lower (collctibles no included
). Therefore, I can't justify charging someone more than a replacement cost. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:40:09 AM EDT
[#37]
They don't *have* to do anything they don't want to do. They make the laws. But you are *probably* right in that they would do one or the other. But that doesn't mean they have to do option 1. They could very well just round up the evil guns and send you a check 6 months later for them. It could happen. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:41:43 AM EDT
[#38]
Of course its easy to say youd take a financial hit if theres no chance youd actually have to take it.  But I see your point. Its a good thing to sspread freedom wherever you can. If I could be SURE we'd never see another AWB, its a no-brainer. But there is no such guarantee. To trade away my best protection against future AWB legislation just pains me. If that makes me selfish, then, I guess I'm selfish. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:44:16 AM EDT
[#39]
According to my reading of the Constitution, there is NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER they could outlaw bayonet lugs and telestocks. Even the Ex post facto doctrine is subject to the whims of political fancy, and the sheeple entrusted with electing their own masters. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:44:31 AM EDT
[#40]
I do think we will people asking (and not getting) pre-ban prices even after the ban has ended. Look at the flood of "pre-bans" that have just been listed in the past few weeks and check gunsamerica for the "new this week" ads for pre-bans with $1000+ price tags. I think it will take awhile for the people who own these guns to get the message that there just isn't a big enough market to support the prices any more. I suppose some people just won't be able to accept that they paid $ 2000 for something that is now worth $ 600 (I have had the same problem with stocks before  )Time will tell |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:52:10 AM EDT
[#41]
I agree. I hope so anyway.
Color me depreciated in value. I'll be in that situation - NEVER being able to recover my investment. There are times you will not sell somethign simply cuz you can't get your $$$ back. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:56:18 AM EDT
[#42]
Garandman:
No, its not subject to political fancy, ex post facto is one of the primary building blocks of our legal system. True, the 2nd has been ignored, but confiscating firearms without compensation due to a retroactive law would never be allowed to occur in our society. If it did occur, it would be time to think very seriously about what happened to America. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 4:57:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Hey I paid $ 600+ for some Glock 21 pre-ban mags years ago. I doubt anyone even here in NY is going to pay that for them now. It'll be too easy to get them elsewhere cheaper or (more likely) people will just ignore NY's magazine ban and buy them out of state-if the mags are not stamped "not for sale in NY" I think this is going to be extremely likely.
There might be a small niche market for a dealer(s) in some southern or western states to start selling pre-ban guns and mags to NY. They won't get pre-ban prices but they can still pay very little for them there and sell them at a premium to people in NY. May not be enough profit to make it worthwhile though because of the limited volume. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 5:00:12 AM EDT
[#44]
Where have you been for the past 140+ years? |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 5:03:56 AM EDT
[#45]
History DOES NOT bear out your assertion. You think people who want to confiscate firearms care about ex psot facto? If you do, you don't understand dictators. YOu don't uderstand oppression. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 5:13:00 AM EDT
[#46]
Disclaimer: I don't own any pre-bans, so I'm JAFO on this topic. BUT, I'd say that any pre-ban owner will take that "hit" in the value / equity of his rifle as soon as 9/14/04 rolls around. If you want to hang on to it and tell yourself it's worth that, well, it's your property. But market value=what the market will actually PAY. If I did own a pre-ban, I'd be all for swapping it for a brand-spanking-new lower (or complete rifle of similar configuration, whatever) in order to let someone in the "banned" areas have their pre-ban. Now as far as keeping your pre-ban thinking that it will somehow be immune to future legislation...that's not even wishful thinking. That's just daydreaming. If the '94 ban dies your pre ban has nothing to differentiate it from any other rifle. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 5:29:47 AM EDT
[#47]
I don't consider this as profitting, but what I will do is buy prebans here after the ban for $600-$700 and sell them to banned states for the price of a new rifle and not a cent more.
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Posted: 8/16/2004 5:34:37 AM EDT
[#48]
Never heard of legal precedent?? I can see as a "compromise" any new AWB grandfathering out pre-94 rifles. There is precdent for it. I look at keeping my preban as the best protection I have against a new AWB. If you don't think its sufficient protection, well neither do I. But something is better than nothing. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 6:29:06 AM EDT
[#49]
Not exactly. They do not have to grandfather anything. They can outright ban it, regardless of when it was made, or whether it was legally owned at one time. For example, there was no grandfathering of Marijunana, Cocaine when it became illegal. There was no grandfathering of alcohol when prohibition took effect. If you find a tommy gun in your grandpa's attic, it is too late to get it legally registered. It is illegal. etc. It will easily survice any court challenge since these things already have provided the case history. Ex-Posto facto means thery cannot charge you for having it yesterday when it was legal, but they can charge you for having it today, when it is illegal. |
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Posted: 8/16/2004 6:39:45 AM EDT
[#50]
Garandman and 1Andy2:
Property law is well established: you must be justly compensated if the government tries to take away property from you. RenegadeX: Actually, marijuana and cocaine could be possessed with the proper tax stamps, ala the 1934 NFA for machine guns and are both still available with the proper medical paperwork (at least the pot is, I'm not 100% sure about the cocaine). NFA items were given an amnesty in 1968, so your (for example) grandfather missed his chance to register it. Prohibition was a Constitutional Amendment, not a simple law, totally different circumstances. Ex post facto would apply if a (new and enhanced) ban was made retroactive to 94, as they would be saying they could prosecute anyone that possessed a firearm that met their criteria even before the criteria was written. A new ban can only apply starting on the day it was signed into law, it cannot be retroactive. Kharn |
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