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Posted: 6/17/2009 6:30:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2009 2:33:50 AM EST by Hendricks5150]
The idea of a 12ga shotgun revolver has been bouncing through my head. Would anyone get it?

It would be like a Taurus Judge, but with more balls.

- It would have a rifled barrel
- Chambered for some exotic round that hasn't been invented yet
- Just happens to shoot 12ga shotgun shells
- 5 round revolving cylinder
- Ported barrel to help manage recoil and muzzle jump
- Spongy squishy big grip (picture a limbsaver, but made into a revolver grip)
- High visibility front and rear sights (make them a lot better than the Judge sights)

The round that hasn't been invented yet would be like a Sabot slug, but bigger and encased in a full brass casing.

The Taurus Judge is allowed to be sold without needing all the paperwork because it is a .45 LC revolver with a rifled barrel that can shoot .410 shotgun shells. This gun would be no different. It would be a revolver that shoots a round that hasn't been invented yet, but just happens to be able to shoot 12ga shotgun shells.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:31:30 PM EST
Wouldn't that make it a short-barrel shotgun, an NFA weapon?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:32:08 PM EST
With intense wrist breaking action!
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:33:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By notso:
With intense wrist breaking action!


No shit.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:34:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Wouldn't that make it a short-barrel shotgun, an NFA weapon?


AOW, I think.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:34:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 6:35:00 PM EST by InjunJoe]
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Wouldn't that make it a short-barrel shotgun, an NFA weapon?


It might be an AOW

ETA

9 seconds Andy
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:37:18 PM EST
schwa??



Street Sweeper?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:38:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 6:38:38 PM EST by bcw107]

Originally Posted By InjunJoe:
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Wouldn't that make it a short-barrel shotgun, an NFA weapon?


It might be an AOW

ETA

9 seconds Andy


I thought an AOW was one that had been converted and a SBS was manufactured as such. Maybe it's the other way around.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:38:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Wouldn't that make it a short-barrel shotgun, an NFA weapon?


Kinda. Picture a Taurus Judge that is just bigger
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:39:28 PM EST
LSD flashbacks from bad trips?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:39:41 PM EST


Kinda like the top one, but is a revolver.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:40:04 PM EST
There would have to be a pistol cartridge that would accept the 12ga in its chamber.


All you manufacturers out there, GET TO WORK
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:40:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By InjunJoe:
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Wouldn't that make it a short-barrel shotgun, an NFA weapon?


It might be an AOW

ETA

9 seconds Andy


I thought an AOW was one that had been converted and a SBS was manufactured as such. Maybe it's the other way around.


An AOW(shotgun) left the factory with no buttstock attached, or a pistol grip attached. If it had a buttstock, it's an SBS.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:40:30 PM EST
IIRC, NFA says that a firearm of any length with a smooth-bore barrel less than 18 inches is a short-barreled shotgun –– regardless of whether or not it has a stock.

I remember reading something along those lines when the Taurus Judge came out - explaining why, despite being capable of firing .410 shotshells, the bore was rifled.

_MaH
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:42:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By mhoffman:
IIRC, NFA says that a firearm of any length with a smooth-bore barrel less than 18 inches is a short-barreled shotgun –– regardless of whether or not it has a stock.

I remember reading something along those lines when the Taurus Judge came out - explaining why, despite being capable of firing .410 shotshells, the bore was rifled.

_MaH


The Judge is a .45 Colt revolver that also fires .410 shells. If it was a .410 revolver that fired .45 Colt, it would be an AOW.

Either way it's still a poor excuse for a firearm.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:43:43 PM EST
You can keep that shit.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:44:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By machinisttx:
Originally Posted By mhoffman:
IIRC, NFA says that a firearm of any length with a smooth-bore barrel less than 18 inches is a short-barreled shotgun –– regardless of whether or not it has a stock.

I remember reading something along those lines when the Taurus Judge came out - explaining why, despite being capable of firing .410 shotshells, the bore was rifled.

_MaH


The Judge is a .45 Colt revolver that also fires .410 shells. If it was a .410 revolver that fired .45 Colt, it would be an AOW.

Either way it's still a poor excuse for a firearm.



Proof that not being a team member means no one pays attention to you
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:44:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By machinisttx:
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By InjunJoe:
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Wouldn't that make it a short-barrel shotgun, an NFA weapon?


It might be an AOW

ETA

9 seconds Andy


I thought an AOW was one that had been converted and a SBS was manufactured as such. Maybe it's the other way around.


An AOW(shotgun) left the factory with no buttstock attached, or a pistol grip attached. If it had a buttstock, it's an SBS.


What about the barrel length? For instance, how is the Mossberg "Survival Kit" then not an AOW since it has the pistol grip?

BTW: did you ever buy that 1908 Colt at Best Pawn?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:44:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 6:47:10 PM EST by -GunNutJuell-]
Originally Posted By mhoffman:
IIRC, NFA says that a firearm of any length with a smooth-bore barrel less than 18 inches is a short-barreled shotgun –– regardless of whether or not it has a stock.

I remember reading something along those lines when the Taurus Judge came out - explaining why, despite being capable of firing .410 shotshells, the bore was rifled.

_MaH


Probably because the manufacturer could conceivably say it's a .45lc revolver that just happens to accept a .410 shell? Just a guess though.
Is the judge marked as .410 or .45lc or both? Never looked at one.
A 12ga. revolver would have quite the unwieldy cylinder! Whats the pistol caliber round equivalent? I think a pistol caliber above .50 was a no go..........I might be wrong on that one though.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:49:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By Hendricks5150:
The idea of a 12ga shotgun revolver has been bouncing through my head. Would anyone get it?

It would be like a Taurus Judge, but with more balls.


I suppose this would be for concealed carry?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:50:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By AR_masterzach:
There would have to be a pistol cartridge that would accept the 12ga in its chamber.

All you manufacturers out there, GET TO WORK


So they would basically need to take a 12ga slug and put it inside of a brass casing and call it something fancy. Make the barrel rifled so it is designed to shoot this new fancy round and it happens to just accept 12ga shotgun shells

Profit
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:51:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By SteveV:
Originally Posted By Hendricks5150:
The idea of a 12ga shotgun revolver has been bouncing through my head. Would anyone get it?

It would be like a Taurus Judge, but with more balls.


I suppose this would be for concealed carry?


Of course

Mainly it would be just a range toy (like The Judge)
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:54:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By InjunJoe:
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Wouldn't that make it a short-barrel shotgun, an NFA weapon?


It might be an AOW

ETA

9 seconds Andy


I thought an AOW was one that had been converted and a SBS was manufactured as such. Maybe it's the other way around.


It's the other way around.

Also, any shotgun with a revolving cylinder, according to the nazi fucktards in the ATF, is a DD, not an SBS or AOW.

Revolving cylinder shotguns also get included in any AWB bill the senate tries to pass through.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:56:49 PM EST
I'm bored. I think I'll make a mockup of one in Rhino.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:58:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By mhoffman:
IIRC, NFA says that a firearm of any length with a smooth-bore barrel less than 18 inches is a short-barreled shotgun –– regardless of whether or not it has a stock.

I remember reading something along those lines when the Taurus Judge came out - explaining why, despite being capable of firing .410 shotshells, the bore was rifled.

_MaH


Serbu SuperShorty's are AOW's...... because they have a pistol grip and vertical foregrip that swings down.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 6:58:59 PM EST
Anyone have any good names for this interesting piece of machinery?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:00:10 PM EST
It would be an AOW.

NFA Definition:

(e) Any other weapon. –– The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.


Source

_MaH
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:06:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 7:08:08 PM EST by Silence]

Originally Posted By mhoffman:
IIRC, NFA says that a firearm of any length with a smooth-bore barrel less than 18 inches is a short-barreled shotgun –– regardless of whether or not it has a stock.

I remember reading something along those lines when the Taurus Judge came out - explaining why, despite being capable of firing .410 shotshells, the bore was rifled.

_MaH


Being fired from the shoulder is a integral part of being defined as a 'shotgun'.

If is not designed to be fired from the shoulder it is not a shotgun, and it has to be a shotgun to be a short barreled shotgun.

ETA- I would be cool if somebody made a 12 gauge like those nerf revolver handguns.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:07:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By machinisttx:
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By InjunJoe:
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Wouldn't that make it a short-barrel shotgun, an NFA weapon?


It might be an AOW

ETA

9 seconds Andy


I thought an AOW was one that had been converted and a SBS was manufactured as such. Maybe it's the other way around.


An AOW(shotgun) left the factory with no buttstock attached, or a pistol grip attached. If it had a buttstock, it's an SBS.


What about the barrel length? For instance, how is the Mossberg "Survival Kit" then not an AOW since it has the pistol grip?

BTW: did you ever buy that 1908 Colt at Best Pawn?


*sigh*

Ok, here's how it breaks down.

If the barrel is 18" or longer and the overall length is 26" inches or longer, nobody gives a shit if it has a stock or just a pistol grip.

If it comes from the factory with a pistol grip (no stock) and barrel shorter than 18", it's an AOW.

If it comes from the factory with a stock and barrel shorter than 18", it's an SBS.

If it comes from the factory with a stock and barrel shorter than 18", and you remove the stock and put a pistol grip on it, it's still an SBS.

If it comes from the factory with a barrel 18" or longer and you shorten the barrel, it's an SBS, regardless of whether or not it had a stock from the factory.

Ergo, a Remington 870 with a stock and 16" barrel is an SBS. A Serbu Super Shorty is an AOW. The shotgun you cut down to 6" with a hacksaw is an SBS.

Make sense now?

Here's something that'll make your head explode:

You can take a pistol and add a 16" barrel and stock to it and it's a rifle. Then you can remove the stock and barrel and it's a pistol again. But you can't turn a rifle into a pistol unless it started out as a pistol. AND you have to put the 16" barrel on before adding the stock (and remove the stock before removing the barrel) or it's an SBR.

If you add a vertical foregrip to a pistol, it's an AOW.

NFA laws: fucked up "logic" that makes no fucking sense to anyone since 1934.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:08:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By mhoffman:
IIRC, NFA says that a firearm of any length with a smooth-bore barrel less than 18 inches is a short-barreled shotgun –– regardless of whether or not it has a stock.

I remember reading something along those lines when the Taurus Judge came out - explaining why, despite being capable of firing .410 shotshells, the bore was rifled.

_MaH


Being fired from the shoulder is a integral part of being defined as a 'shotgun'.

If is not designed to be fired from the shoulder it is not a shotgun, and it has to be a shotgun to be a short barreled shotgun.


Exactly, it would be a revolver that shoots some special ammo with a rifled barrel... And it just happens to shoot 12ga loads.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:10:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hendricks5150:
Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By mhoffman:
IIRC, NFA says that a firearm of any length with a smooth-bore barrel less than 18 inches is a short-barreled shotgun –– regardless of whether or not it has a stock.

I remember reading something along those lines when the Taurus Judge came out - explaining why, despite being capable of firing .410 shotshells, the bore was rifled.

_MaH


Being fired from the shoulder is a integral part of being defined as a 'shotgun'.

If is not designed to be fired from the shoulder it is not a shotgun, and it has to be a shotgun to be a short barreled shotgun.


Exactly, it would be a revolver that shoots some special ammo with a rifled barrel... And it just happens to shoot 12ga loads.

rifled barrel greater than 1/2 inch...DD land.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:21:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 7:25:06 PM EST by trickypierre]
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/0400/461.htm
made by the same company that makes a o/u autoloader
http://www.kbptula.ru/eng/sphu/hunt/mts255.htm
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:29:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By Hendricks5150:
Originally Posted By AR_masterzach:
There would have to be a pistol cartridge that would accept the 12ga in its chamber.

All you manufacturers out there, GET TO WORK


So they would basically need to take a 12ga slug and put it inside of a brass casing and call it something fancy. Make the barrel rifled so it is designed to shoot this new fancy round and it happens to just accept 12ga shotgun shells

Profit


That would make it a Destructive Device which is potentially even more of a pain in the ass.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:38:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By machinisttx:
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By InjunJoe:
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Wouldn't that make it a short-barrel shotgun, an NFA weapon?


It might be an AOW

ETA

9 seconds Andy


I thought an AOW was one that had been converted and a SBS was manufactured as such. Maybe it's the other way around.


An AOW(shotgun) left the factory with no buttstock attached, or a pistol grip attached. If it had a buttstock, it's an SBS.


What about the barrel length? For instance, how is the Mossberg "Survival Kit" then not an AOW since it has the pistol grip?

BTW: did you ever buy that 1908 Colt at Best Pawn?


As long as the barrel is over 18", it's legally a standard shotgun. Barrel under 18", smoothbore, and either no stock or a PG from the factory would be an AOW...or even if it leaves the factory with a barrel over 18" and everything else the same, it can be registered as an AOW. Once it has the buttstock on it, it can only be a SBS.

Nope, someone else did though, figured it was you. I know where another one is sitting right now, in WAY better shape, with $400 on the tag. Some pitting the the barrel though, or I would have bought it.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:38:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 7:38:56 PM EST by Sique]

I have to agree with the wrist breaking comment. I think it would look cool though.

Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:42:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By notso:
With intense wrist breaking action!


Not really. I shoot my short-barrelled Remington 870 one-handed frequently. Granted, it helps to be 6'4" and 240 pounds.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:43:42 PM EST
I'm pretty sure any 'revolving cylinder shotgun' is considered a DD by the ATF as per the street-sweeper ruling
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:49:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
Originally Posted By notso:
With intense wrist breaking action!


Not really. I shoot my short-barrelled Remington 870 one-handed frequently. Granted, it helps to be 6'4" and 240 pounds.


I tried a serbu clone last year and the gun would have sprained my wrist if I hadn't braced it with my stomach.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 7:58:41 PM EST
Now an AOW... More like an AOWWWWWW!
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 2:34:26 AM EST
Tag for the morning crue and update in first post...
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 2:45:25 AM EST
It's not 12G but there is always the Thunder 5 used in 3 Kings...

Link Posted: 6/18/2009 3:10:29 AM EST
anything over 50 cal is a destructive device (2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes

and you may as well make it a sbs and be done with it.
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 4:17:42 AM EST
Hijack in progress....

What would they say about a semi auto BELT FED shot gun???
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 4:34:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By machinisttx:
Originally Posted By mhoffman:
IIRC, NFA says that a firearm of any length with a smooth-bore barrel less than 18 inches is a short-barreled shotgun –– regardless of whether or not it has a stock.

I remember reading something along those lines when the Taurus Judge came out - explaining why, despite being capable of firing .410 shotshells, the bore was rifled.

_MaH


The Judge is a .45 Colt revolver that also fires .410 shells. If it was a .410 revolver that fired .45 Colt, it would be an AOW.

Either way it's still a poor excuse for a firearm.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
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