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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/19/2012 10:11:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 10:13:40 AM EST by FordGuy]
I saw the other thread on the tankless hot water heater and didn't want to get it off track.

Are tankless systms (electric) that much more expensive than tank systems? (again, both electric)


If I put a timer on the electric tank, can that save more money than installing a tankless? I think insulating the hot outgoing pipes as far as possible might be my next step.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:21:20 AM EST
A timer is pointless. An insulation blanket on the WH and insulated pipes makes good sense.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:22:01 AM EST
A tankless that's electric would require a very large circuit to handle a volume of water. In order to get the same heat from electric as a gas unit, think a 40kw circuit. That would be a 175 amp circuit, and most homes are setup for 200 amps. A point of use tankless might be feasible, but not whole home IMO.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 10:23:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By proto_moose:
A tankless that's electric would require a very large circuit to handle a volume of water. In order to get the same heat from electric as a gas unit, think a 40kw circuit. That would be a 175 amp circuit, and most homes are setup for 200 amps. A point of use tankless might be feasible, but not whole home IMO.


THIS
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:00:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 12:00:54 PM EST by FordGuy]
Originally Posted By m193:
A timer is pointless. An insulation blanket on the WH and insulated pipes makes good sense.


I get you guys on the value of a tank here, but recently have seen opinions on here to the contrary of the above....I thought a timer was the way to go with the tank? Plus, when I feel the tank it is just room termperature, not hot. why insulate that?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:07:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
Originally Posted By m193:
A timer is pointless. An insulation blanket on the WH and insulated pipes makes good sense.


I get you guys on the value of a tank here, but recently have seen opinions on here to the contrary of the above....I thought a timer was the way to go with the tank? Plus, when I feel the tank it is just room termperature, not hot. why insulate that?

It has been my experience that it is cheaper to maintain an energy level (water temp), than to try and recover from a significant loss.

However, my hot water demands may be different than yours. My wife works nights and I work days, plus my daughter (18) is here about half the time.

I would recommend finding the lowest temperature setting acceptable to all and then wrapping that hot water heater with an insulation blanket. Even if you feel the tank is at room temp, it's a good bet that there is heat being radiated from it.

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:15:16 PM EST
I would never buy a tankless.
YMMV.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:16:03 PM EST
We installed some electric tankless water heaters on a job out at the beach. Originally we had one for the whole house. It was woefully inadequate. It literally took minutes to get hot water to the laundry machines and then it was just warm. We then installed a couple more at point of use. Same thing. They just couldn't do it.
We ended up installing a propane tank and one propane tankless for the entire house. That did the trick!
This was approx. 7 years ago so maybe the technology has gotten better but electric tankless just don't seem to have what it takes. They work well if you put one under a sink to get hot water at that sink.
This was a second home and the people had $$ and wanted to try the electrics before spending the money on a propane tank.
Just my $.02.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:16:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By cavedog:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
Originally Posted By m193:
A timer is pointless. An insulation blanket on the WH and insulated pipes makes good sense.


I get you guys on the value of a tank here, but recently have seen opinions on here to the contrary of the above....I thought a timer was the way to go with the tank? Plus, when I feel the tank it is just room termperature, not hot. why insulate that?

It has been my experience that it is cheaper to maintain an energy level (water temp), than to try and recover from a significant loss.

However, my hot water demands may be different than yours. My wife works nights and I work days, plus my daughter (18) is here about half the time.

I would recommend finding the lowest temperature setting acceptable to all and then wrapping that hot water heater with an insulation blanket. Even if you feel the tank is at room temp, it's a good bet that there is heat being radiated from it.


The above is what I was referring to. Unless you only use hot water every few days, you will most likely use the same energy to reheat the water as you will to keep it at an even temp.

Also, there is a "minimum" temp (about 140F I think) to keep bacteria from growing in the tank.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:17:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By cavedog:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
Originally Posted By m193:
A timer is pointless. An insulation blanket on the WH and insulated pipes makes good sense.


I get you guys on the value of a tank here, but recently have seen opinions on here to the contrary of the above....I thought a timer was the way to go with the tank? Plus, when I feel the tank it is just room termperature, not hot. why insulate that?

It has been my experience that it is cheaper to maintain an energy level (water temp), than to try and recover from a significant loss.

However, my hot water demands may be different than yours. My wife works nights and I work days, plus my daughter (18) is here about half the time.

I would recommend finding the lowest temperature setting acceptable to all and then wrapping that hot water heater with an insulation blanket. Even if you feel the tank is at room temp, it's a good bet that there is heat being radiated from it.



My experience is different; we've found that we've enjoyed significant saving thru the use of a hot water timer. I guess some people realize a savings and others don't.

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:18:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By itsARanchrifle:
I would never buy a tankless.
YMMV.


explain
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:28:15 PM EST
I've never seen good reviews on electric tankless water heaters.
I had a friend get a gas one and he ended up not liking it either.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 12:38:53 PM EST
I have both electric and propane at my cabin. The propane can keep up with a long shower. The electric is absolutely useless.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:13:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By proto_moose:
A tankless that's electric would require a very large circuit to handle a volume of water. In order to get the same heat from electric as a gas unit, think a 40kw circuit. That would be a 175 amp circuit, and most homes are setup for 200 amps. A point of use tankless might be feasible, but not whole home IMO.

Ask me how I know.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:24:43 PM EST
Depending on the insulation thickness, it may actually reverse the desired effects due to heat transfer and make it worse than if you had no insulation at all. Do some heat transfer calculations or IM me before committing.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 1:12:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By M4tty:

Originally Posted By proto_moose:
A tankless that's electric would require a very large circuit to handle a volume of water. In order to get the same heat from electric as a gas unit, think a 40kw circuit. That would be a 175 amp circuit, and most homes are setup for 200 amps. A point of use tankless might be feasible, but not whole home IMO.

Ask me how I know.


can you possibly give any more detail?
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 1:13:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By Factor:
Depending on the insulation thickness, it may actually reverse the desired effects due to heat transfer and make it worse than if you had no insulation at all. Do some heat transfer calculations or IM me before committing.


are you talking about for the water tank?
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 2:46:55 AM EST
I've got a tankless electric heater that feeds my kitchen and a powder room, and at one time the washing machine. It does draw a lot of current, but for small demands, it works just fine. Now for a bathroom, a gas point of use heater would supply enough volume for a shower and would be a much better choice than an electric heater. I'm going to install a gas point of use heater for our bathroom next.
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