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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:33:49 AM EST
My shop is 75ft from my house and I want to get internet over there. I have looked into wireless but am torn on it so I wondered about a physical connection instead.
I have looked at burial rated Cat5E such as the Ubiquiti ToughCable Pro but have been reading a lot about needing surge protection and grounding along with lightning and static issues which I don't know a lot about. I have a Cisco SG250-26P switch that has 2 SFP ports on it so am thinking about running OM3 armored fiber over to the shop instead but am a fiber newbie. It looks like I can buy pre-terminated cables with LC connectors and then get a fiber converter for the shop. Do I need to worry about the same lightning and grounding issues as with the Cat5E? Does anyone have any leads on good quality but reasonably priced OM3 armored cable with LC connectors? What about a pulling tool for pre-terminated cable? Am I biting off more than I can chew? I would be putting either in conduit when buried. Update: It is all done now except for some cleanup work. I wound up putting in a 6000 watt 240V heater to keep it warm enough in the shop. It went really well and the fiber pulled easily. Drilling all of the holes for the LB's and doing the trenching itself was way worse. I have to patch the wall yet in the shop and clean up the cabling yet but I am happy so far. I think I may get some flexible conduit to run the cables in for the shop so that I don't accidentally snag them some day. In the house - 
In the shop - 
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:37:46 AM EST
[#1]
75ft is not very far. A single wireless router in a window of the house facing the outbuilding will probably cover it all, and not then just put an extender in the outbuilding. It wouldn't make any sense to do anything more difficult than that.
But if you had to have a wired connection... The maximum effective length of Cat5e is about 100m, so that will easily reach 75ft. No need to waste money on fiber, since it's main Benicia is a longer run. Burial Cat5e is cheap and effective. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:40:05 AM EST
[#2]
I am really hoping to get a gigabit connection out there and put my secondary NAS out there for backups is why I was thinking about going wired instead of wireless.
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:40:16 AM EST
[#3]
Could you just buy two repeaters? Plug one in outside of your house then plug another one in outside of your shop might be the easiest way.
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:42:51 AM EST
[#4]
I don't understand the concern.
whatever is cheapest. The media for this solution seems to not be relevant at all. The fact that you named cable by brand name raises question in its own regard. Buy a box of whatever BS Cat5e/Cat6 you can find. Riser rated is cheap toss it in the ground and not worry about it for the next 20 years. If you're really that concerned get literally any direct burial rated Cat5e. Jacking around with fiber is stupid it serves no purpose in this case. Though if you want I would measure your run, then have a fiber bundle made to order. ETA: see your plan to backup to NAS... still arguing against wireless for some reason. You can get gigabit+ speeds from wireless even at 75' |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:43:27 AM EST
[#5]
I do have 2 Ubiquiti Nanostations inbound to try out but they are limited to 150Mbps and from what I can find even with the power turned down all the way they may be too close to work properly.
I will find out when they arrive but the more I think about it the more I'd like to run a physical connection if possible. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:45:06 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am really hoping to get a gigabit connection out there and put my secondary NAS out there for backups is why I was thinking about going wired instead of wireless. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:46:13 AM EST
[#7]
Do the premade fibre. No ground issues between the two buildings, no corrosion underground, no worries about water getting into it.
I'd cheap non armored stuff in a conduit (pvc) between the two buildings. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:49:15 AM EST
[#8]
I am probably over thinking it but there are discussions all over the internet like this about all of the issues with running Cat5E from building to building.
I really don't want to fry my $400 Cisco switch if spending a couple hundred dollars on running fiber instead will prevent it. The reason I mentioned Ubiquiti ToughCable Pro is because I can get it for $135/1000ft shipped which seems to be about the cheapest out there and it is burial rated from a name brand. If there is better out there for cheaper I am all ears as I am not a Ubiquiti fanboy as these Nanostations will be the first of their products that I will own. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:51:07 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do the premade fibre. No ground issues between the two buildings, no corrosion underground, no worries about water getting into it. I'd cheap non armored stuff in a conduit (pvc) between the two buildings. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:53:29 AM EST
[#10]
I would do fiber. I've seen situations where they ran copper between buildings that led to really weird ground leakage issues. Worst case you could actually get a shock from touching one of the switches. Switches were dying every few weeks until I grounded all of them.
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Posted: 8/19/2017 12:13:10 PM EST
[#11]
Would this be a good option? It is armored and a little more expensive than the eBay cable but ships from CA. I will be burying it in conduit but figure the armor couldn't hurt for the 15ft run in the house and the 5ft run in the shop.
It also appears that I would need this transceiver according to this |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 1:21:20 PM EST
[#12]
If you're putting a cable in the ground, use fiber. Ubiquiti has plenty of wifi solutions.
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Posted: 8/19/2017 1:58:55 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do have 2 Ubiquiti Nanostations inbound to try out but they are limited to 150Mbps and from what I can find even with the power turned down all the way they may be too close to work properly. I will find out when they arrive but the more I think about it the more I'd like to run a physical connection if possible. Outdoors, a short distance, bury plastic PVC pipe or conduit and put anything you have laying around in it. I run 2 Ubiquiti Rocket M5's between an office and a bedroom, with the power mostly up. 25 feet... 
Run some of their Rocket 5AC Prisms about 20 some miles as well... 
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Posted: 8/19/2017 2:02:45 PM EST
[#14]
We ran fiber between the barn and the container for about a total equipment cost of $50 for the fiber to cat adapters and $30 for a 300 foot length of dual fiber.
I ran it on the ground from the Fall to Spring, in snow and rain and nobuddy chomped it! See eBay for everything you could possibly want and need.... Here's a link, discussion is abt 1/2 way in. I did it to drastically lower the chance of a lightening strike on one bldg. or the other propagating damage. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/666943_Creating-havoc-at-the-BOL--Bears--and-Fiber-optic-networking.html&page=6&anc=11808980#i11808980 eBay has TONS of great fiber already made up and dirt cheap if you look. The barn<>shipping container [that we live in here] link has been running for years, no issue. Fiber is in cheap plastic conduit, I think I used 1 1/2" for almost 300 feet, but a 75 foot run, I'd still go with a large diameter ---for the future.... Folks- don't OVERTHINK this... 
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Posted: 8/19/2017 3:43:28 PM EST
[#15]
Thanks for the help all!
I read thru your thready Expy and it was very helpful! Did you happen to get your conduit at Hone Depot? Do you think 8" deep would be deep enough to bury the conduit or should I go deeper? I plan on going with the 1-1/2" conduit just to be safe and will run a coupe of extra runs of the twisted mason line thru the conduit as well just in case I want to run more later. Would you trust cable shipped from China or should I grab the stuff from CA? |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 3:59:49 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the help all! I read thru your thready Expy and it was very helpful! Did you happen to get your conduit at Hone Depot? Do you think 8" deep would be deep enough to bury the conduit or should I go deeper? I plan on going with the 1-1/2" conduit just to be safe and will run a coupe of extra runs of the twisted mason line thru the conduit as well just in case I want to run more later. Would you trust cable shipped from China or should I grab the stuff from CA? 2/ 8" is deep enuf if you aren't running machinery over it... In that case, slip a piece of metal conduit over the PVC conduit where the equipment will pass. 3/ Always plan ahead... 4/ If you're talking abt fiber, look for 'surplus' stuff on eBay. First, know the type of connector you are going to use. Wiki has a nice discussion on fiber connectors. Also, buy your Media Fiber Adapter on ebay, don't pay stupid prices. My 100 meg ones are now abt $20 w/ PS. If you wind up buying cable from China, plan on ~ 2 weeks min and the stuff should be fine. I buy tech stuff from China all the time off eBay w/ only rare issues. I use this type... A pair for abt $25 shipped from CA free... W/ PS. Just plug- 1Pair 10/100M light RJ45 Ethernet to Fiber Optic Media Converter Singlemode 25KM ---into eBay search. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 4:08:33 PM EST
[#17]
Sounds good. I plan on using LC-LC connectors since the SFP transceivers for my Cisco switch that I will be using are easy to find in that configuration. I found a standalone converter for the shop for $25 in that configuration as well.
I will debate the cable from China option as it really isn't that much more to get it from the US after looking. I wouldn't mind doing ends myself but it seems that can get rather expensive for the tools since I only need a couple of them at most. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 4:14:53 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds good. I plan on using LC-LC connectors since the SFP transceivers for my Cisco switch that I will be using are easy to find in that configuration. I found a standalone converter for the shop for $25 in that configuration as well. I will debate the cable from China option as it really isn't that much more to get it from the US after looking. I wouldn't mind doing ends myself but it seems that can get rather expensive for the tools since I only need a couple of them at most. I think I used SC or ST connectors. I'm in the shipping container looking at the adapter and the fiber is orange and the conx are rectangular. I LOVE these things. A friend saw my system and when he built another BIG garage this year ---he put fiber in, he wanted 1 gig but has no need for it...
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Posted: 8/19/2017 4:20:53 PM EST
[#19]
Here's a TRIPP LITE N320-46M 46M DUPLEX FIBER MMF LC/LC
46 meters! Perfect, for $40 or best offer. I'd offer $30. When I installed, was lucky to find 300' or so cables for only abt $25 each so I bought plenty of spares. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 4:24:43 PM EST
[#20]
I am actually looking forward to this project and appreciate all of your help!
Now to do some shopping 
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Posted: 8/19/2017 4:32:31 PM EST
[#21]
Everything is easy except the ditch.
Did you see the mouse I used to pull the string? |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 4:34:39 PM EST
[#22]
Yeah I am not looking forward to the ditch
I saw the mouse....that took some serious thinking...I liked it
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Posted: 8/19/2017 5:32:17 PM EST
[#23]
Out of curiosity can I mix switches as long as they both have SFP ports?
I don't really need another Cisco switch for the shop at $250+ for the one like mine but with only 10 ports. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 7:40:58 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of curiosity can I mix switches as long as they both have SFP ports? I don't really need another Cisco switch for the shop at $250+ for the one like mine but with only 10 ports. It's sort of like our solar system... 
Why not pick up a 8 or 16 port D-Link sw for $30 on eBay... I use a bunch and mod them for 12vdc op. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 7:42:57 PM EST
[#25]
That sounds promising. It appears that there are a few nice TP-Link switches out there that compare to the Cisco for about half the money. They are compatible with the Cisco SFP transceivers too.
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Posted: 8/19/2017 9:19:10 PM EST
[#26]
I didn't see your picture before Expy...holy shit that is quite the setup
I want POE for a camera and access point is why I was thinking a bit more expensive of a switch. I am looking at this one as it has a ton of features for a great price. Ideally I'd get the Cisco SG250-10P since I have the SG250-26P but I really don't need to spend $260 on a switch for the shop
I am going to see how the Nanostation works before proceeding with the fiber install but I don't have high hopes. It will take me a bit to do the fiber install since I am trying to actually not spend money right now. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 9:31:16 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't see your picture before Expy...holy shit that is quite the setup
I want POE for a camera and access point is why I was thinking a bit more expensive of a switch. I am looking at this one as it has a ton of features for a great price. Ideally I'd get the Cisco SG250-10P since I have the SG250-26P but I really don't need to spend $260 on a switch for the shop
I am going to see how the Nanostation works before proceeding with the fiber install but I don't have high hopes. It will take me a bit to do the fiber install since I am trying to actually not spend money right now. I don't use switches for POE, but AXIS stand alone ones -new or used. Some of the POEs I mod for external fused 12vdc. I use mostly D-Link switches and don't spend more than abt $30 new or used on ebay. I've got probably 5 D-Link 16 port switches and various 8 and 4 ports all nicely blinking here and there, in the system. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 9:39:09 PM EST
[#28]
In that picture, right below the IP controlled 8 AC outlet control [cameras, lights, outdoor lights, fan, etc.] is a low end 4 or 8 port switch that splits the network for a camera, the controlled outlet, and a Control By Web temp sensor with 3 relay control, voltage monitor, and something else.
There's no need IMHO to spend $$$ to accomplish complex things. As far as the Nano, if you put them in a window on each end, or outside so they are line of sight, then you will have a great conx. I've done it visiting friends between their houses and the Stealth Camper. Using the Rocket M2 and M5's. I'd definitely chose the 5.8 ghz models to avoid interference. I have an issue at one place that I can't easily run a cable between my desk and my SO's PC and my laptop, and using the wireless router, it just gets jammed too often. So I put a Rocket M5 on each end of a 20 foot or so path, and blast the signal. 
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Posted: 8/20/2017 1:45:38 PM EST
[#29]
Yeah I just like playing with switches and things (I am a programmer by day) and like them to be multi-use so a switch with POE/LACP/etc. is interesting to me. I have 2 business level NAS's as well just because I like to tinker and I am in charge of that kind of stuff at work too as of late.
I just grabbed one of these from the warehouse for $91 shipped as they have 20% off on some of the switches today. It is a beast of a switch for that money so now I will grab a couple of short OM3 cables and transceivers to play with before spending the money on the long (40m actually after measuring) cables that I need. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 2:02:08 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah I just like playing with switches and things (I am a programmer by day) and like them to be multi-use so a switch with POE/LACP/etc. is interesting to me. I have 2 business level NAS's as well just because I like to tinker and I am in charge of that kind of stuff at work too as of late. I just grabbed one of these from the warehouse for $91 shipped as they have 20% off on some of the switches today. It is a beast of a switch for that money so now I will grab a couple of short OM3 cables and transceivers to play with before spending the money on the long (40m actually after measuring) cables that I need. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 2:03:38 PM EST
[#31]
Generally speaking yes. You can mix switches provided you have the proper interface types on both and the matching transceiver types, proper media, and connectors.
I have no experience with lower price switches and SFP transceivers but I would guess you'll have fewer interop problems at that end of the spectrum than I do on mine. Try to find an HCL that lists the transceiver brand and model as compatible with your switches. I suspect with just a little care you'll be fine. It's just another media type carrying basic layer 2 protocols (and whatever else you might push around the wire). I agree with the posters saying "don't overthink it". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of curiosity can I mix switches as long as they both have SFP ports? I don't really need another Cisco switch for the shop at $250+ for the one like mine but with only 10 ports. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 2:05:47 PM EST
[#32]
Direct burial cat5e or cat6 is what I'd go with.
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Posted: 8/20/2017 2:31:58 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You did see the 46M for $40 free shipping, lc-lc cable I posted above --on eBay? It looks like you can custom order single armored fiber from this place and they ship free. It is $41 for a 40m armored cable which isn't bad at all imo. I am going to grab 4 of these transceivers as well as a couple of short cables to test with before ordering the long ones so that I can play with the LAG's and make sure everything works. |
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Posted: 8/20/2017 2:33:54 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Direct burial cat5e or cat6 is what I'd go with. |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 10:53:36 PM EST
[#35]
Op, I've had very good luck with the Ethernet over power line inverters. I believe they make some up to 800Mbps. If your barn if fed as a sub panel off your house it will work well. If your house and barn go to the same transformer it will be about half the speed but should still work.
If not I'd go with the CAT6 with a shield. I bought 1000' of it 10 years ago for $300. That was tray rated and not burial but it should be much cheaper now. Edit: run it in burried conduit. |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 10:56:30 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Op, I've had very good luck with the Ethernet over power line inverters. I believe they make some up to 800Mbps. If your barn if fed as a sub panel off your house it will work well. If your house and barn go to the same transformer it will be about half the speed but should still work. If not I'd go with the CAT6 with a shield. I bought 1000' of it 10 years ago for $300. That was tray rated and not burial but it should be much cheaper now. Edit: run it in burried conduit. lol... |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 11:43:37 PM EST
[#37]
18" to top of conduit is good rule of thumb to comply with Code.
Don't use "twisted mason line", use rated pull string, and DON'T put more than one run in a conduit. You'll only make that mistake once in your life. IE.Pull string |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 11:51:04 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would do fiber. I've seen situations where they ran copper between buildings that led to really weird ground leakage issues. Worst case you could actually get a shock from touching one of the switches. Switches were dying every few weeks until I grounded all of them. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 11:58:48 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am really hoping to get a gigabit connection out there and put my secondary NAS out there for backups is why I was thinking about going wired instead of wireless. this post comes to you over one of those links. over either span i can back up to my NAS at 950mbps no problem. run the conduit, squirt some lubricant in, pull Cat5e, terminate and seal the NM pipe as best you can. now then, EVERY underground conduit is going to fill with water over time. i don't care if you use NASA grade solvent cement and a NIST-calibrated Leica surface roughness measurement system on the fittings: the conduit is going to fill with water. the air in the underground conduit is cooler than the ambient air outside, and slowly but surely moisture will condensate out of the air in the conduit. it's just physics. ask any electrician. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 12:00:09 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If not I'd go with the CAT6 with a shield. no. |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 12:05:52 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was going to do that too until l started reading about it and found out about all of the grounding issues as well as static electricity and lightning concerns. Fiber seems to be a much safer idea since I don't want to fry anything.
https://www.google.com/search?q=fiber+lightning+PMD in all seriousness, for the modest distances like you have, running metallic ethernet in underground conduit isn't going to cause you any problems. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 6:08:14 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CAT6 with a shield between buildings vs. a lightning strike... lol... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Op, I've had very good luck with the Ethernet over power line inverters. I believe they make some up to 800Mbps. If your barn if fed as a sub panel off your house it will work well. If your house and barn go to the same transformer it will be about half the speed but should still work. If not I'd go with the CAT6 with a shield. I bought 1000' of it 10 years ago for $300. That was tray rated and not burial but it should be much cheaper now. Edit: run it in burried conduit. lol... Also op, make sure to pull spare whatever you are pulling so that in the even of something happening to one line the other may still work. |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 6:15:46 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
no. no. no. no. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If not I'd go with the CAT6 with a shield. no. |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 8:18:09 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
18" to top of conduit is good rule of thumb to comply with Code. Don't use "twisted mason line", use rated pull string, and DON'T put more than one run in a conduit. You'll only make that mistake once in your life. IE.Pull string |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 8:19:57 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
802.x ethernet over unshielded twisted pair has galvanic isolation transformers at both ends, and has forever at all metallic rates (10mbps -> 1Gbps). there is no ground leakage current. ar-jedi Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would do fiber. I've seen situations where they ran copper between buildings that led to really weird ground leakage issues. Worst case you could actually get a shock from touching one of the switches. Switches were dying every few weeks until I grounded all of them. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 8:23:58 AM EST
[#46]
Save tier self trouble get a good Wireless router and a repeater. Or if the shop is on the same electrical use EOP ethernet over power line.
Besides unless you have a fiber pulled to your home, why would you want that bandwidth house to shop? |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 8:27:55 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Save tier self trouble get a good Wireless router and a repeater. Or if the shop is on the same electrical use EOP ethernet over power line. Besides unless you have a fiber pulled to your home, why would you want that bandwidth house to shop? I will have fiber at home in a few months but mainly I want to put my secondary NAS out there for offsite backups. Since there is 10TB of data on it as well as the camera system I'd like to have a reliable connection. I am still thinking about using Cat5e but fiber is still winning even though it seems it may be more of a pain than I had hoped for. |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 2:08:31 PM EST
[#48]
If you go with the wireless look at the Air Fiber X from Ubiquity. You will be in the 2K range to get the speeds you want. The fiber will give you better long term options. I would also look at single mode fiber vs OM3, better options long term.
Manufacturer of fiber can be important. Look at Corning or CommScope quality is important and will affect how stable the connection is. Look at optics from Curvature. Good price for the gear. 1G LX for $65 |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 2:20:19 PM EST
[#49]
I appreciate the info.
Yeah I really don't want to spend $2K just to avoid digging a trench for the fiber. I will look at single mode as well but I already bought 2 multi mode transceivers so don't know about changing at this point as I thought multi mode would be better for my distance and speed requirement. |
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Posted: 8/22/2017 3:22:30 PM EST
[#50]
Home depot rents a mini ditch witch that will make that trench easy.
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