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Posted: 3/15/2005 4:55:47 PM EST
March 21, 2005

Ranger School opens up
Soldiers don’t have to be in combat arms to attend

Want to earn that Ranger tab?
Now you can, even if you aren’t a combat arms soldier.

The plan to allow combat support and combat service support officers and enlisted soldiers to attend Ranger School has been approved by Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker, chief of staff.

The new policy does not apply to women, who are still barred from this most rigorous of Army training because of the service’s combat exclusion policy. Until now, the grueling 61-day small-unit leadership course has been the exclusive domain of infantrymen and other combat arms soldiers.

The change was proposed by the Infantry Center, Fort Benning, Ga., and Task Force Soldier. Schoomaker established the task force in September 2003 to develop new ways of instilling the warrior ethos and battlefield skills in all soldiers, regardless of branch.

“Traditional branch roles on the battlefield are no longer the norm for our forces and the threat facing us today requires that we ensure select leaders of combat support and combat service support units receive the same unique skills taught at Ranger School,” said Human Resources Command officials announcing the procedures for the new policy.

Combat support generally includes chemical, engineer, military police, military intelligence and signal soldiers. Service and support soldiers come from the adjutant general, finance, ordnance, transportation, quartermaster and health services branches.

To apply for Ranger School soldiers must submit a DA Form 4187 (Request for Personnel Action) and an Airborne/Ranger physical through the first lieutenant colonel in their chain of command to the installation director of plans and training management/G3. If the application is approved locally, it will be forwarded to HRC, the agency that manages Ranger School slots, for final approval.

Detailed instructions for applying for Ranger School were announced March 9 in MilPer Message 05-067.

MILPER MESSAGE NUMBER : 05-067
AHRC-EPT-T
EXPANSION OF RANGER SCHOOL ATTENDANCE TO COMBAT SUPPORT (CS) AND COMBAT SERVICE SUPPORT (CSS) BRANCHES
...Issued: [03/09/2005]...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A. AR 350-1, Army Training and Education, dated 9 Apr 03.

B. DA Pamphlet 351-4, US Army Formal Schools Catalog, dated 31 Oct 95.

C. Memorandum, Chief of Staff, Army, subject: Expansion of Ranger School Attendance to Combat Support (CS) and Combat Service Support (CSS) Branches, dated 31 Jan 05.

1. The purpose of this message is to announce the expansion and provide implementation guidance of the United States Army Ranger School Attendance to Combat Support (CS) and Combat Service Support (CSS) branches.

2. The Global War on Terrorism (GWOT) created many new challenges for our Army. Traditional branch roles on the battlefield are no longer the norm for our forces and the threat facing us today requires that we ensure additional select leaders of CS and CSS units receive the unique skills taught at Ranger School. The Chief of Staff, Army has approved select CS and CSS Soldiers for enrollment into Ranger School. Attendance at Ranger school will remain limited to Soldiers for whom the combat exclusion policy does not apply. The following outlines the specific steps and actions for Soldiers requesting attendance at Ranger School.

a. Soldiers will submit a request containing a DA Form 4187 and Airborne/Ranger physical through the first LTC/05 in the Chain of Command to Installation DPTM/G3s. Soldiers who attend a locally conducted pre-Ranger course (or equivalent) or are Airborne qualified will be more favorably considered than those who do not.

b. Commanders will ensure that Soldiers meet the prerequisites outlined in Table 3-6, DA Pam 351-4 and Chapter 4, AR 351-1 before approving and forwarding recommendation.

c. DPTM/G3s will approve and submit DA 4187 as an A1 application utilizing the Army Training Requirements and Resources System (ATRRS) to WD quota source for enlisted and WA quota source for officers.

d. For installations and units without ATRRS access, applications for officers may be submitted for voluntary Ranger School attendance by submission of a packet containing a DA Form 4187 and Airborne/Ranger Physical through their chain of command to Commander, US Army Human Resources Command (HRC), ATTN: (AHRC-OPL-L), 200 Stovall Street, Alexandria, VA 22332, Director Leader Development, ATTN: Mr. Ricardo Rivera [FAX: (703) 325-3242] for consideration. Enlisted Soldiers may submit requests for voluntary Ranger school attendance by submitting a request containing a DA Form 4187 and Airborne/Ranger Physical through their chain of command to the approval authority which is Commander, HRC (AHRC-EPT-T), 2461 Eisenhower Ave, Alexandria, VA 22332, or faxed to Specialized Training Management Branch ATTN: Mr. Jesse Bailey [FAX: (703) 325-4590] for consideration. On all DA Forms 4187, a statement from the Commander verifying that the Soldier meets all prerequisites IAW AR 350-1 and DA Pam 351-4 will be included.

e. Funding to support temporary duty (TDY) and return is the responsibility of the unit of assignment and is chargeable to unit OPTEMPO indirect, TDY to school account. Travel orders will direct government housing (Barracks and direct government meals, seven days per week. Travel orders must be prepared per HQDA guidance at http://www.hqda-odcsops.army.mil. Fort Benning is under MTSS policy.

f. Soldiers who are on assignment instructions may apply for Ranger training. If packet is approved, Soldiers will attend Ranger training in a TDY en route status. Based on successful completion of Ranger training, the Soldier’s assignment may change.

g. Soldiers who complete Ranger Training will be stabilized in their units for one year after completion of training.

h. Refer to AR 600-8-19 for special provisions regarding Ranger training and promotion.

3. POC for this message is Mr Jesse L. Bailey, (703)325-4585 (DSN 221), or Mr Ricardo Rivera, (703)325-3150 (DSN 221).


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Use this URL to link to this document
http://PERSCOMND04.ARMY.MIL/MILPERmsgs.nsf/All+Documents/05-067?OpenDocument
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:56:56 PM EST
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:58:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?



Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:00:42 PM EST
Well, that didn't take long.

Fuck it, why not just send the chicks too. it's just a matter of time. And, hell with it, why not just do away with that pesky PT test while we're at it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:00:56 PM EST
Got some news for ya, Ranger school has always been open to all officers. Maybe not NCO's, but all offocers. The priority always went to Combat arms officers and NCO's. Ranger School is a Leadership School not a special skills school.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:04:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By colesteele:
Got some news for ya, Ranger school has always been open to all officers. Maybe not NCO's, but all offocers. The priority always went to Combat arms officers and NCO's. Ranger School is a Leadership School not a special skills school.




Not to mention some open slots for other branches of service.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:06:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:07:24 PM EST
For a minute, I thought they were going to let people in off the street!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:10:08 PM EST
All Officers go to every MOS in the Army. They have no real MOS. I had a tanker for a Commander in an Infantry Battalion.

The other branches that attend are also fo the "Special Forces" types. Not their cooks.

As far as "support" troops getting training, they are riflemen first, we all attend the same basic and the training before deployments.

Rangers are a special breed and shouldn't be open to everyone. You want ranger training, join the combat arms.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:11:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?

Yeah. WTF? Where do they get off trying to train soldiers from all over the Army to be better at what they do? Next thing you know they'll be trying to give everyone better equipment and weapons, and have them all riding around in armored trucks.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:17:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By joker581:

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?

Yeah. WTF? Where do they get off trying to train soldiers from all over the Army to be better at what they do? Next thing you know they'll be trying to give everyone better equipment and weapons, and have them all riding around in armored trucks.



Read above again there pal. You want Range training go combat arms. If not get back there and pump the gas or cook the chow.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:20:57 PM EST
Holy shit. Guys, like previously posted, there are a lot of folks finding themselves in infantry positions in Iraq right now.

This is a great idea. Fuck, they ain't just handing these tabs out, you still gotta pass the tests and finish the course.

You would deny a soldier in a combat zone additional training that may save their and many others lives?

And have any of you arm-chair commando's earned the ranger tab, let alone be in a 'combat arms' mos? Shit, when it gets down to it, everyone in the fucking Army is in a combat position.

Get a life guys.

TXL
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:26:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:27:29 PM EST
No i didn't get my tab but I was Infantry and earned my EIB. I also earned my beret with my wings. You do not open one of the toughest schools to the entire Army. Non-combat arms individuals get the training just like the rest of us do. You get it before you deploy. You go to NTC and train.


As far as "support" troops getting training, they are riflemen first, we all attend the same basic and the training before deployments.

<-As all ready stated.

Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:30:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By grywlf52:

Originally Posted By joker581:

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?

Yeah. WTF? Where do they get off trying to train soldiers from all over the Army to be better at what they do? Next thing you know they'll be trying to give everyone better equipment and weapons, and have them all riding around in armored trucks.



Read above again there pal. You want Range training go combat arms. If not get back there and pump the gas or cook the chow.

Nice response. I've done my combat arms time. I've had actual experience in combat. That has nothing to do with whether or not non-infantry troops could or would benefit from Ranger school. Unless I am mistaken, Ranger school is one of the best(if not THE best) leadership school in all of the United States military. They teach skills that can benefit leaders of ANY unit.

Maybe noone told you, but the peace is over. We now have a war going on, and every bit of available training is beneficial to our troops that are currently deploying. I certainly don't think that the standards for Ranger school should drop, nor that support troops should get preference over infantry troops. However, the fact remains that Ranger school, along with all other military schools are there to give troops training that they can benefit from.

American soldiers are being killed daily in Iraq. All of us have bigger shit to worry about than whether the beret and the tab still feel as special. Being a Marine, I could have my facts mixed up, but I thought the school was just a school, while the battalion was a way of life.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:40:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?



Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?



+infinity

The ranger tab only means you've passed ranger school and the rigorous training. A "Ranger" is someone who is actually in the 75th Ranger Regiment - graduates of ranger school are only hand-picked to become true rangers, the rest are 'just' much better soldiers as a result of the schooling.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:42:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?



Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?



Why does a cook need Army Ranger training? Just give them all Infantry training.....
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:46:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 5:48:15 PM EST by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?



As long as they dont lower the standards I think its ok. If anything raise the standard for non infantry or combat MOS to be at least E5. Its good training and if it gets our NCO ranks filled with good knowledge then the better. Its probably the BEST leadership course available.

Hell now that I think about it. Lets make Ranger school replace PLDC. We would have nothing but the BEST NCOs in the Army.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:49:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?



Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?



Why does a cook need Army Ranger training? Just give them all Infantry training.....



Maybe if one of the cooks who got caught in Nasirya had decent training as an NCO they may have not screwed up and got in that predicament.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:52:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By joker581:
Ranger school is one of the best(if not THE best) leadership school in all of the United States military. They teach skills that can benefit leaders of ANY unit.



Best reason yet.

I agree.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:52:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 5:55:28 PM EST by GackMan]
wow... deja vu. it is like it is 1996 or something.

any MOS could apply and get a slot in Ranger School... then the Army DXed it. Now it is back. so the pendulum swings.


There used to be a whole bunch of Rangers in MI. then they quit letting them attend. If an LLVI (google it) team leader isn't a good Ranger School candidate outside combat arms, I don't know what is.


Link Posted: 3/15/2005 5:59:50 PM EST
.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:12:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?



Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?



Why does a cook need Army Ranger training? Just give them all Infantry training.....



Why the fuck do you CARE? One cook with ranger training might save the lives of a whole platoon of cooks without it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:16:39 PM EST
Its just Ranger School, not RIP.

Ask any Ranger and he will mroe then likely say you can take his tab, but his scroll over his dead body.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:18:05 PM EST
I ran into some 74D's (chemical operations specialist) during their AIT (should have graduated mid-Dec 04), two of them were on Ranger contracts. So this policy has at least been in effect since July, when those soldiers entered basic training.

Kharn
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:20:51 PM EST
So they're going back to the old ways, finally. I went to Ranger School with a physical therapist.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:23:06 PM EST
Crap! I thought it meant civilians could go thru the course......I need to loose a few pounds!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:24:04 PM EST

The other branches that attend are also fo the "Special Forces" types. Not their cooks.

Not true, I know a Marine SSgt that went to ranger school and he was not even a grunt....
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:24:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By Married2NAVCOP:
Crap! I thought it meant civilians could go thru the course......I need to loose a few pounds!



Loost pounds is a good thing!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:31:04 PM EST


The ranger tab only means you've passed ranger school and the rigorous training. A "Ranger" is someone who is actually in the 75th Ranger Regiment



BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yo­u are not a Ranger if you have not be ASSIGNED to the 75th Ranger Regiment, like I told my roomate when he got back to Batt. after Ranger School...."Congrats your a Ranger qualified Ranger now!!"
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:32:24 PM EST
This is just going back to the way it was.
RIP is not tougher than Ranger School. Its different. I went to Ranger School, I haven't been to RIP, BTW but I do have a bunch of friends who were in Regiment both officer and enlisted.
There are a whole bunch of scrolled rangers who aren't tabbed (and they aren't happy, either)
Ranger school does not make you a super trooper, it means you can take the suck.
Time in regiment means you are probably the best light infantry in the world. The quality of the leadership and the resources for training are unmatched. (Jarheads flame away, but other than the brainwashing you will have to give me something concrete.)
The regiment only has about 1000 soldiers in a given time, though soldiers bounce between light infantry units and regiment (especially 82nd) fairly regularly.
If someone wants to go to Ranger school, good. They will be an asset to whatever unit they are assigned and will further the redevelopment of a sorely needed warrior ethos.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:39:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
This is just going back to the way it was.
RIP is not tougher than Ranger School. Its different. I went to Ranger School, I haven't been to RIP, BTW but I do have a bunch of friends who were in Regiment both officer and enlisted.
There are a whole bunch of scrolled rangers who aren't tabbed (and they aren't happy, either)
Ranger school does not make you a super trooper, it means you can take the suck.
Time in regiment means you are probably the best light infantry in the world. The quality of the leadership and the resources for training are unmatched. (Jarheads flame away, but other than the brainwashing you will have to give me something concrete.)
The regiment only has about 1000 soldiers in a given time, though soldiers bounce between light infantry units and regiment (especially 82nd) fairly regularly.
If someone wants to go to Ranger school, good. They will be an asset to whatever unit they are assigned and will further the redevelopment of a sorely needed warrior ethos.



The quality of the leadership and the resources for training are unmatched. (Jarheads flame away, but other than the brainwashing you will have to give me something concrete.)

Bwhahahah......sig worthy
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:40:48 PM EST
Lets not panic here. I dont thing that there is going to be a line of cooks and clerks to get into ranger school. Not only infantryman and spec ops are coming under fire, but also combat support personnel. That ranger schooled soldier just might learn skills and display the leadership necessary to save his comrades and provide support services necessary. I think that certain individuals who have ego problems will have the hardest time adjusting. Some guys here feel threatened if that "cook" standing next to him has a ranger tab. Too bad. As long as the standards of the course are not diminished, if he passed the course he should wear it with pride. My only issue with it is that infantry/combat personnel should be given priority with combat support personnel taking up a small percentage of the class.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:41:32 PM EST

but other than the brainwashing you will have to give me something concrete


what you call brainwashing is actually discipline

BTW I've personally seen rangers falling back on hikes that regular Marine infantry were keepinh up on.
Ilet me say I do NOT think rangers are turds, i'm sure that those couple guys were anomolies (sp?) I have alot of respect for rangers, but you'll understand if I disagree and say the corps has the best light infantry...
Semper Fi
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:58:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?



What?????? the berets were given away. The Ranger tab will be earned. CS and CSS troops have always been going to Ranger school. They just had to be assigned to SOF units to get to go. And that was not a rule just the norm. I know a QM 2nd LT that went through right out of QM OBC. And cooks in Ranger BN that went through the course too.

Now, any soldier with the desire can apply and be aproved to go. Notice it says, "If you complete the course, your assignment may change" That is a big IF.........
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:02:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

As long as they dont lower the standards I think its ok. If anything raise the standard for non infantry or combat MOS to be at least E5. Its good training and if it gets our NCO ranks filled with good knowledge then the better. Its probably the BEST leadership course available.

Hell now that I think about it. Lets make Ranger school replace PLDC. We would have nothing but the BEST NCOs in the Army.



Speaking of lowering standards, there seems to be more than a few E5s out there that haven't gone through PLDC.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:02:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?



Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?



+infinity

The ranger tab only means you've passed ranger school and the rigorous training. A "Ranger" is someone who is actually in the 75th Ranger Regiment - graduates of ranger school are only hand-picked to become true rangers, the rest are 'just' much better soldiers as a result of the schooling.



ALMOST, the true Rangers go through RIP to become RANGERS,and earn that title. Later they will attend Ranger School to earn the Tab.

A Ranger Tab is an Award, A Ranger Scroll is a way of life......
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:05:46 PM EST
This is just smoke. Anyone with any knowledge of what's really going on, doesn't mind the Army going back to the way it had been for years.

NBFD = No Big Fuckin' Deal

I've seen tabbed cooks, clerks, chaplins, and supply pouges. It doesn't mean shit.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:07:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kharn:
I ran into some 74D's (chemical operations specialist) during their AIT (should have graduated mid-Dec 04), two of them were on Ranger contracts. So this policy has at least been in effect since July, when those soldiers entered basic training.

Kharn



Ranger BN's have always been made up of almost ALL MOS's Not just Combat Arms. This is as old as the Ranger BN's themselves.
Hell, some of the highest medals awarded in TFR were to 71L types that volunteered to go out after the first wave....

A bunch of you guys have no clue what you are talking about......
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:09:13 PM EST
Doorkicker, I know you're SF but did you complete Hooah school before or after your long tab?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:12:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By llanero:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

As long as they dont lower the standards I think its ok. If anything raise the standard for non infantry or combat MOS to be at least E5. Its good training and if it gets our NCO ranks filled with good knowledge then the better. Its probably the BEST leadership course available.

Hell now that I think about it. Lets make Ranger school replace PLDC. We would have nothing but the BEST NCOs in the Army.



Speaking of lowering standards, there seems to be more than a few E5s out there that haven't gone through PLDC.



There also happens to be a WAR going on incase you didn't notice. It is hard to pull a guy from combat and send him to PLDC just because he has earned the right to be at the next pay grade. Same goes for BNCOC and ANCOC. But don't worry, if they don't go to the nessicary schools after a certain amount of time, they will loose the rank.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:22:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
Doorkicker, I know you're SF but did you complete Hooah school before or after your long tab?



I have never been to Ranger school. I still have that on my list of things to do before I retire/ ETS but the older I get, and I ain't really that old, I know that the reality of it happening is slim to none.

If I could go back and do it all again, I would have gone Airborne Ranger contract as an 11B right out of HS. But you can't go back and start over.

I kinda just got lucky with SF and when I originally enlisted, It was the farthest thing from my mind.

I am curently a Recruiter. So maybe I can put in a 4187 now and go to Ranger school.......NOT
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:25:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By DoorKicker:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
Doorkicker, I know you're SF but did you complete Hooah school before or after your long tab?



I have never been to Ranger school. I still have that on my list of things to do before I retire/ ETS but the older I get, and I ain't really that old, I know that the reality of it happening is slim to none.

If I could go back and do it all again, I would have gone Airborne Ranger contract as an 11B right out of HS. But you can't go back and start over.

I kinda just got lucky with SF and when I originally enlisted, It was the farthest thing from my mind.

I am curently a Recruiter. So maybe I can put in a 4187 now and go to Ranger school.......NOT



Hooah. I never went SF but I did sell a chocolate nutcake to an SF dude for $50 bucks in Mountain Phase.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:26:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 7:31:40 PM EST by rtech]

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
This is just going back to the way it was.
RIP is not tougher than Ranger School. Its different. I went to Ranger School, I haven't been to RIP, BTW but I do have a bunch of friends who were in Regiment both officer and enlisted.
There are a whole bunch of scrolled rangers who aren't tabbed (and they aren't happy, either)
Ranger school does not make you a super trooper, it means you can take the suck.
Time in regiment means you are probably the best light infantry in the world. The quality of the leadership and the resources for training are unmatched. (Jarheads flame away, but other than the brainwashing you will have to give me something concrete.)
The regiment only has about 1000 soldiers in a given time, though soldiers bounce between light infantry units and regiment (especially 82nd) fairly regularly.
If someone wants to go to Ranger school, good. They will be an asset to whatever unit they are assigned and will further the redevelopment of a sorely needed warrior ethos.



100%

I was at the 1st 75th in 1983. I had taken "the big suck" quite often. Having gone through Infantry/Airborne and to the Batts, I think I can chime in here. I guess I'm one of those "chair bound, keyboard commandos" that were mentioned.

I was at the Batts for about a month or so before I got sent to Ranger School. No RIP. I might bring up here that I went to Benning in the fall/winter and BAC right after. I also was suffering from severe bronchitis and what seemed, the perpetual flu the whole time. IT SUCKED BIG TIME. 30 days was not enough time to recover from being a "walking dead" person and going through the course. Or, the extra attention I got to get me ready for the course by my fellow Rangers. I got dropped the 2nd phase because I fell flat on my face during a "forever" speed march. You didn't get recycled, you didn't get a "do over" and you didn't get a stress card for a time out. If you fell out, you walked. No trophy for second place. I am not proud of it, and if I hadn't been so sick, I could have made it. I was PCS'd to Ft. Campbell a few weeks after that. I guess it was punishment.

I went on to take other schools, and to teach some later on. Got qualified Air Assault and Jungle Expert in Panama. Got an EIB and went to Sniper School at the Marksmanship Training Unit at Campbell. Got to take some of the classes at the School of the Americas while in Panama back in the day.

I agree that the Army as a whole needs to restructure combat training and that every soldier should be a rifleman first. Should everybody be a Ranger? Nope. Should you have the chance to try? Why not. Should you be able to waste a slot that another, more qualified soldier, that may have a better chance at completing the school? Nope. Don't waste time and money if you can't cut it when you are a cook or a "combat computer operator" and want to go play commando. Anybody who is already gung-ho is probably already in a combat MOS and it shouldn't be a problem. If you want to go play grunt, re-up for it. I'm sure you'll get a bonus because one thing the Army is always short on is 11 bullet-catchers.

If you go, don't waste the slot and give it your all. I did and it wasn't enough at the time, but then again, I wasn’t a spoon.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:27:17 PM EST
as long as the regs stay the same..
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:34:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By DoorKicker:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
Doorkicker, I know you're SF but did you complete Hooah school before or after your long tab?



I have never been to Ranger school. I still have that on my list of things to do before I retire/ ETS but the older I get, and I ain't really that old, I know that the reality of it happening is slim to none.

If I could go back and do it all again, I would have gone Airborne Ranger contract as an 11B right out of HS. But you can't go back and start over.

I kinda just got lucky with SF and when I originally enlisted, It was the farthest thing from my mind.

I am curently a Recruiter. So maybe I can put in a 4187 now and go to Ranger school.......NOT



Hooah. I never went SF but I did sell a chocolate nutcake to an SF dude for $50 bucks in Mountain Phase.



I bet is was worth every penny.....
Seriously though, my adopted mentor LTC (retired) Danny Greene Tripple Tabed by the way. Always encouraged me to go to Ranger school. He was Honor Grad from his class as a 30 something Capt. He told me a story about Benning phase and how he was given a few hours to get stuff they needed (like hair cuts, mole skin, baby wipes....you know what I am talking about) Anyway, he went out on the land nav course and burried a bunch of candy bars.
Later while on that course, he ploted his route to take him by his honey hole and dug up the candy bars. He said he choked them down, ants and all.......
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:41:57 PM EST
61 days? Sounds like a breeze.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:12:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?



Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?



Why does a cook need Army Ranger training? Just give them all Infantry training.....



Maybe if one of the cooks who got caught in Nasirya had decent training as an NCO they may have not screwed up and got in that predicament.



So.....once again, why does he need Ranger training?

Are you saying that a regular Light Infantrysoldier wouldnt be good enough? Sounds to me maybe one of the lower Enlisted men needs to step up and take charge when an NCO wont.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:14:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?



Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?



Why does a cook need Army Ranger training? Just give them all Infantry training.....



Why the fuck do you CARE? One cook with ranger training might save the lives of a whole platoon of cooks without it.



Because I fucking can. One cook with Infantry training might save the lives also. Or is regular Infantry training not good enough???
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:14:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Silesius:
61 days? Sounds like a breeze.



Link Posted: 3/15/2005 8:20:23 PM EST
My apologies to KA3B for this brief thread hijack.


Originally Posted By DoorKicker:

There also happens to be a WAR going on incase you didn't notice. It is hard to pull a guy from combat and send him to PLDC just because he has earned the right to be at the next pay grade. Same goes for BNCOC and ANCOC. But don't worry, if they don't go to the nessicary schools after a certain amount of time, they will loose the rank.





Don't worry, I'm keenly aware of what's going on.
Some of what you said may be true, but it's also true that the huge waiting list for these schools is aggravating the situation. Resources spent on opening more schools are resources well spent and the benfits will quicky make themselves apparent in war.
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