Ranger School opens up - Soldiers don’t have to be in combat arms to attend - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ranger School opens up - Soldiers don’t have to be in combat arms to attend (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 3/15/2005 10:46:06 PM EDT

[#1]

BFD--So it goes back to the way it used to be. Ranger School is a Leadership School. The same people that bitch about the lack of leadership in CS/CSS units complain that now they have a means to try and improve the situation. There are plenty of soldiers out there that are in non combat arms MOS's that would put some infantry types to shame. The POS's that I chaptered out of the Army when I was a Infantry Company First Sergeant were qualified to apply to Ranger School while in, but the stud SPC with a commo MOS that served on one of my LRS teams as a RTO in a 11B slot could not. I guarantee you that this will not be the end of Ranger School and that all these support types are not going to be rushing to get in and take the slots away from grunts. There will be a few with the nads to try, and if they make it, congrats to them. If they make their unit a little better because of the leadership lessons they learned, great, their Unit and the Army gets stronger. Those that shouldn't be there will wash out soon enough, peer reports have a way of weeding out those undeserving. Ranger school is not hard, it just sucks.
JD

Posted: 3/15/2005 10:53:36 PM EDT

[#2]

I don't see any problem with better trained soliders while the u.s. is at war, but the question i have is are they going to lower the standards in any way when the non combat mos soliders have a lower graduation rate? And are they going to delay soliders at the ranger bat's attendance because of non combat mos increase?
If they don't lower the standards and put ranger bat soliders 1st, I don't see any real argument against it during a time of war.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:11:35 AM EDT

[#3]

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Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?

Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?

Why does a cook need Army Ranger training? Just give them all Infantry training.....

Why the fuck do you CARE? One cook with ranger training might save the lives of a whole platoon of cooks without it.

Because I fucking can. One cook with Infantry training might save the lives also. Or is regular Infantry training not good enough???

So instead of using something that exists NOW, and only requires a little paperwork shuffling, you want to wait until they can institute a whole new program of infantry training for service and support branches. I wonder if you even realize how naive you are.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:14:09 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
So instead of using something that exists NOW, and only requires a little paperwork shuffling, you want to wait until they can institute a whole new program of infantry training for service and support branches. I wonder if you even realize how naive you are.

It's nothing new, Rik. They'e been doing it for years.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:17:16 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So instead of using something that exists NOW, and only requires a little paperwork shuffling, you want to wait until they can institute a whole new program of infantry training for service and support branches. I wonder if you even realize how naive you are.

It's nothing new, Rik. They'e been doing it for years.

They've been giving cooks infantry training for years? When did that start? Because whatever they're doing, it certainly hasn't worked too well, particularly in the Guard and Reserves.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:24:53 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So instead of using something that exists NOW, and only requires a little paperwork shuffling, you want to wait until they can institute a whole new program of infantry training for service and support branches. I wonder if you even realize how naive you are.

It's nothing new, Rik. They'e been doing it for years.

They've been giving cooks infantry training for years? When did that start? Because whatever they're doing, it certainly hasn't worked too well, particularly in the Guard and Reserves.

No, they've been offering Ranger School to whomever for years.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:36:33 AM EDT

[#7]

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So instead of using something that exists NOW, and only requires a little paperwork shuffling, you want to wait until they can institute a whole new program of infantry training for service and support branches. I wonder if you even realize how naive you are.

It's nothing new, Rik. They'e been doing it for years.

They've been giving cooks infantry training for years? When did that start? Because whatever they're doing, it certainly hasn't worked too well, particularly in the Guard and Reserves.

No, they've been offering Ranger School to whomever for years.

Oh okay, sorry...I misunderstood. Yeah, I know they've offered Ranger school to other branches for years. I was defending the practice to someone who suggested they just offer infantry training instead.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:40:23 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Oh okay, sorry...I misunderstood. Yeah, I know they've offered Ranger school to other branches for years. I was defending the practice to someone who suggested they just offer infantry training instead.

Understood. Sorry for jumping into this so late in the game.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:44:53 AM EDT

[#9]

Can I do this course on the weekends?

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:51:30 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Can I do this course on the weekends?

sure, sign here________________

1 weekend a month, 2 weeks in the summer, think of it as a vacation.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

TXL

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:51:46 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Can I do this course on the weekends?

Half right, face!

Posted: 3/16/2005 4:41:34 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I'm missing the part where it is wrong for a soldier who wants to, to learn as much as he can and seek as much training as he wants....

i agree...

good thing to get more people into that type of training, as long as it is held to the current quality standards, and is not made any easier to cheapen the tab...

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:19:36 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?

Um perhaps they are going back to the way things were in the old days. Prior to about 92-3 any male who could pass the Ranger School pre-test of common tasks, no matter the MOS could attend the school.

Ive had the pleasure of working with Ranger Qualified Cooks, Chaplain's Assistants, Commo dudes, Aviation Ops Planners ect ect ect

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:23:34 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
I bet is was worth every penny.....
Seriously though, my adopted mentor LTC (retired) Danny Greene Tripple Tabed by the way. Always encouraged me to go to Ranger school. He was Honor Grad from his class as a 30 something Capt. He told me a story about Benning phase and how he was given a few hours to get stuff they needed (like hair cuts, mole skin, baby wipes....you know what I am talking about) Anyway, he went out on the land nav course and burried a bunch of candy bars.
Later while on that course, he ploted his route to take him by his honey hole and dug up the candy bars. He said he choked them down, ants and all.......

Holy Shit, Danny Greene was my BC in Panama. Well kinda, while he was in command he spent most of his time doing the tryouts for the Golden Knights. Great Guy!

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:25:28 AM EDT

[#15]

Some of you guys are so friggin clueless it amazes me that you are able to type.

I earned my tab as a Medic. (91B-10) Got to use that Medic training DURING the course too.

I sense that the biggest uproar about this is coming from folks whose closest proximity to Ranger/Infantry/Combat training is a video game. Keyboard Commandos can kiss my ass.

As for the guy that wants them to re-enlist as infantry, there are whole BATTALIONS being involuntarily reclassed to grunts. The 49th Armored Division is now the 36th Infantry Division. The 56th BCT, in Tikrit right now, started out as two Armor units and an Engineer unit back in August. I'd damn sure like to see my guys go to any school they can get their hands on.

I spend my weekends teaching Combat Lifesaver to everything from finance clerks to wheeled vehicle mechanics. They're going to need it.

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:28:34 AM EDT

[#16]

if/when the cooks and supply clerks actually make it through Ranger school, perhaps we should re-evaluate the curriculum.

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:34:36 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
if/when the cooks and supply clerks actually make it through Ranger school, perhaps we should re-evaluate the curriculum.

You are so friggen clueless. Regiment has been sending its clerks and cooks thru ranger school for years, even with the ban on non combat arms MOS's. Regiment has a block of slots that they can send anyoneone, no matter the MOS to the course.

Clerks and Cooks from the infantry attended back in the day. It has nothing to do with your MOS, If you can pass the pre-test, then you are qualified to attend. Go back to playing CounterStrike

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:45:07 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
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if/when the cooks and supply clerks actually make it through Ranger school, perhaps we should re-evaluate the curriculum.

You are so friggen clueless. Regiment has been sending its clerks and cooks thru ranger school for years, even with the ban on non combat arms MOS's. Regiment has a block of slots that they can send anyoneone, no matter the MOS to the course.

Clerks and Cooks from the infantry attended back in the day. It has nothing to do with your MOS, If you can pass the pre-test, then you are qualified to attend. Go back to playing CounterStrike

Beat me to it.

Rtech, Were you at Hunter during 83?

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:48:40 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
if/when the cooks and supply clerks actually make it through Ranger school, perhaps we should re-evaluate the curriculum.

You are so friggen clueless. Regiment has been sending its clerks and cooks thru ranger school for years, even with the ban on non combat arms MOS's. Regiment has a block of slots that they can send anyoneone, no matter the MOS to the course.

Clerks and Cooks from the infantry attended back in the day. It has nothing to do with your MOS, If you can pass the pre-test, then you are qualified to attend. Go back to playing CounterStrike

Thanks Jackass.

If you attend, do you automatically make it through? How many soldiers that pass the pre-test make it through RAP Week? About 50% right?

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:53:06 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
if/when the cooks and supply clerks actually make it through Ranger school, perhaps we should re-evaluate the curriculum.

You are so friggen clueless. Regiment has been sending its clerks and cooks thru ranger school for years, even with the ban on non combat arms MOS's. Regiment has a block of slots that they can send anyoneone, no matter the MOS to the course.

Clerks and Cooks from the infantry attended back in the day. It has nothing to do with your MOS, If you can pass the pre-test, then you are qualified to attend. Go back to playing CounterStrike

Thanks Jackass.

If you attend, do you automatically make it through? How many soldiers that pass the pre-test make it through RAP Week?

No Idea, ive been out of the active army since early 2001. I know from my last unit we had 100% pass rate, 6 sent, 6 passed as we had a handshake deal with Regiment to send Tac Psyop guys to Ranger school using Regt slots.

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:56:18 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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if/when the cooks and supply clerks actually make it through Ranger school, perhaps we should re-evaluate the curriculum.

You are so friggen clueless. Regiment has been sending its clerks and cooks thru ranger school for years, even with the ban on non combat arms MOS's. Regiment has a block of slots that they can send anyoneone, no matter the MOS to the course.

Clerks and Cooks from the infantry attended back in the day. It has nothing to do with your MOS, If you can pass the pre-test, then you are qualified to attend. Go back to playing CounterStrike

Thanks Jackass.

If you attend, do you automatically make it through? How many soldiers that pass the pre-test make it through RAP Week?

No Idea, ive been out of the active army since early 2001. I know from my last unit we had 100% pass rate, 6 sent, 6 passed as we had a handshake deal with Regiment to send Tac Psyop guys to Ranger school using Regt slots.

A lot of cooks and truck drivers in the group of 6?

Here's my point....compare Ranger School to Harvard. If anyone could a) make it into Harvard and b) actually graduate, then obviously a Harvard degree wouldn't hold that much prestige.

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:56:58 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Holy shit. Guys, like previously posted, there are a lot of folks finding themselves in infantry positions in Iraq right now.

This is a great idea. Fuck, they ain't just handing these tabs out, you still gotta pass the tests and finish the course.

You would deny a soldier in a combat zone additional training that may save their and many others lives?

And have any of you arm-chair commando's earned the ranger tab, let alone be in a 'combat arms' mos? Shit, when it gets down to it, everyone in the fucking Army is in a combat position.

Get a life guys.

TXL

+1

And remember there is a big difference between a "tab" Ranger and a "scroll" Ranger.

Posted: 3/16/2005 5:57:23 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
if/when the cooks and supply clerks actually make it through Ranger school, perhaps we should re-evaluate the curriculum.

You are so friggen clueless. Regiment has been sending its clerks and cooks thru ranger school for years, even with the ban on non combat arms MOS's. Regiment has a block of slots that they can send anyoneone, no matter the MOS to the course.

Clerks and Cooks from the infantry attended back in the day. It has nothing to do with your MOS, If you can pass the pre-test, then you are qualified to attend. Go back to playing CounterStrike

Thanks Jackass.

If you attend, do you automatically make it through? How many soldiers that pass the pre-test make it through RAP Week?

I'm just guessing here, but probably all of the ones that come from the regiment, at least if they want to go back to it. I don't know anything about you, but I do know about the abilities of well trained support troops. Even support troops that aren't as well trained. From the Battle of the Bulge to today, support troops have fought due to necessity or circumstance. Many have done extremly well. Being able to pass a hard school has less to do with MOS and more to do with individual training, ability, and motivation.

Posted: 3/16/2005 6:21:37 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Here's my point....compare Ranger School to Harvard. If anyone could a) make it into Harvard and b) actually graduate, then obviously a Harvard degree wouldn't hold that much prestige.

So you're worried about prestige?

Posted: 3/16/2005 6:39:11 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Here's my point....compare Ranger School to Harvard. If anyone could a) make it into Harvard and b) actually graduate, then obviously a Harvard degree wouldn't hold that much prestige.

So you're worried about prestige?

If *anyone* that passes the pre-test can make it through Ranger School, then Ranger School could probably be made a little more challenging.

But the fact of the matter is that only 50% of the soldiers that start Ranger School finish Ranger School....so obviously there's no problem....that's why I don't have a problem with anyone attending...if they can pass, they're obviously hard MFs.

Posted: 3/16/2005 2:19:45 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
My apologies to KA3B for this brief thread hijack.

Quoted:

There also happens to be a WAR going on incase you didn't notice. It is hard to pull a guy from combat and send him to PLDC just because he has earned the right to be at the next pay grade. Same goes for BNCOC and ANCOC. But don't worry, if they don't go to the nessicary schools after a certain amount of time, they will loose the rank.

Don't worry, I'm keenly aware of what's going on.
Some of what you said may be true, but it's also true that the huge waiting list for these schools is aggravating the situation. Resources spent on opening more schools are resources well spent and the benfits will quicky make themselves apparent in war.

What waiting list???? Do you know what you are talking??? NO.
currently an enlistee who gets RIP contract, goes straight to Ranger school after RIP BEFORE going to assignment at BN.

Posted: 3/16/2005 2:25:14 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?

Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?

All well and good, but RANGER school?

How about teaching them better in Basic? Am I missing something?

Posted: 3/16/2005 2:31:56 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
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Total and utter bunch of BS. First the damn berets and now this. What the hell are they thinking!?!?!?!?

Hmm...Gosh, maybe they're thinking that a HELL of a lot of support troops are getting involved in actual shooting encounters in Iraq and maybe they should have more tactical trainging?

All well and good, but RANGER school?

How about teaching them better in Basic? Am I missing something?

Yes, you are: the nature of beurocracy. It's far, far easier and quicker to allow other MOSs into Ranger school than it is to propose, test, get approved and implement a whole new phase of basic training for hundreds of thousands of support troops.

Posted: 3/16/2005 2:35:50 PM EDT

[#29]

Basic really is just that: Basic. Doesn't teach you very much about leadership, and frankly, it shouldn't really need to either. There's enough basic soldier skills that need to be thrown in as it is and the average 18-year-old is going to have enough trouble assimilating just that.

As mentioned, Ranger school is really a leadership course. How about this? How about removing the ranger tab from the uniform? That way nobody can get offended if some, oh, transportation NCO earned one by taking the course, passing it, and then passing on what he has learned to the rest of his troops.

Education by osmosis, for lack of a better term, is a practised system. For example, the Irish special forces recruit many more troops than they have slots available for them. The ones not assigned to the ARW take their tab, their new beret, and go right back into the infantry battalions (or wherever) where they are responsible for passing on their knowledge. Such can happen from ranger-tabbed people.

I'm a tanker. I've no interest in going to Ranger School. But I don't see a single bad thing that can happen by having non-infantry types going to it.

NTM

Posted: 3/16/2005 2:42:52 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Beat me to it. Rtech, Were you at Hunter during 83?

John. Yes. Will IM details. Lovely little spot on the earth is it not? Did they make you do the pullup thing before chow as well?

Posted: 3/16/2005 2:48:14 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
My apologies to KA3B for this brief thread hijack.

Quoted:

There also happens to be a WAR going on incase you didn't notice. It is hard to pull a guy from combat and send him to PLDC just because he has earned the right to be at the next pay grade. Same goes for BNCOC and ANCOC. But don't worry, if they don't go to the nessicary schools after a certain amount of time, they will loose the rank.

Don't worry, I'm keenly aware of what's going on.
Some of what you said may be true, but it's also true that the huge waiting list for these schools is aggravating the situation. Resources spent on opening more schools are resources well spent and the benfits will quicky make themselves apparent in war.

What waiting list???? Do you know what you are talking??? NO.
currently an enlistee who gets RIP contract, goes straight to Ranger school after RIP BEFORE going to assignment at BN.

That's not exactly accurate. A private finishes RIP, goes to BN, then to pre-ranger, then to school.

Posted: 3/16/2005 2:57:51 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
How about teaching them better in Basic? Am I missing something?

Think about it this way. Ranger School is Post Grad work for mid level management. Nothing to do with skills learned in basic training.

take an guy who is moving fast, been in 2 - 4 years. A young squared away hard charging SGT and send him to the Regimental weight-loss clinic and train him to be a better combat leader and decision maker under stress. Then send that NCO back to his unit with these new skills and push that down into training his soldiers and other NCOs.

I think opening of Ranger school to other MOSs falls in line with the General Schoomaker's Warrior Ethos philosophy. Every soldier is a fighter, not a title like clerk, radio operator, etc.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:00:02 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
How about teaching them better in Basic? Am I missing something?

Think about it this way. Ranger School is Post Grad work for mid level management. Nothing to do with skills learned in basic training.

take an guy who is moving fast, been in 2 - 4 years. A young squared away hard charging SGT and send him to the Regimental weight-loss clinic and train him to be a better combat leader and decision maker under stress. Then send that NCO back to his unit with these new skills and push that down into training his soldiers and other NCOs.

Watch your attributions please. I didn't say that. I was quoting someone else.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:04:29 PM EDT

[#34]

granted I'm just a civilian but this seems different from the beret thing
you still have to pass the training to get the tab

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:05:11 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Watch your attributions please. I didn't say that. I was quoting someone else.

fixed - thanks.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:05:40 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
How about teaching them better in Basic? Am I missing something?

Think about it this way. Ranger School is Post Grad work for mid level management. Nothing to do with skills learned in basic training.

take an guy who is moving fast, been in 2 - 4 years. A young squared away hard charging SGT and send him to the Regimental weight-loss clinic and train him to be a better combat leader and decision maker under stress. Then send that NCO back to his unit with these new skills and push that down into training his soldiers and other NCOs.

I'd agree with that statement for all MOS's minus Infantry. If you have an E4 or E5 Infantryman who is not up to snuff on raids, ambushes, recon, OPORDS, PB procedures, and patrolling techniques, then he needs to surrender his rank. Now if you toss an E2 or E3 Infantryman into Ranger school, he'll actually learn something.

The only thing an Infantry NCO might learn in Ranger school would be some mountaineering up at Camp Frank D. Macho.

Posted: 3/16/2005 3:15:04 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:I'd agree with that statement for all MOS's minus Infantry. If you have an E4 or E5 Infantryman who is not up to snuff on raids, ambushes, recon, OPORDS, PB procedures, and patrolling techniques, then he needs to surrender his rank. Now if you toss an E2 or E3 Infantryman into Ranger school, he'll actually learn something.

Sending an E2 to Ranger school... not sure if that is the place to learn those tasks, but hey - if they make it good for them!

I agree 100% - Infantry dudes should be up to snuff on their skills. Any other MOS attending Ranger school should be trained on those tasks prior to getting there as well. Executing the taskes w/ no sleep or food under simulated stress with subordinates who are just as hungry and loopy as the leaders are can still be a challenge... just a little bit

The Army uses the medium of Infantry skills to teach leadership, not teach the skills themself. Right? I got off AD in '97, but that is what I got from it the 8 years I was in and I don't think it has changed that much.

doom and gloom unto the Joe who gets "Movement to contact" but can't do land nav... that is just a no go on a silver platter.

Posted: 3/17/2005 8:40:00 AM EDT

[#38]

You guys keep refering to Ranger School as a leadership school. I don't get this.

It's kind of like saying that Basic training is a graduate school for the Custodial Arts. I was in Infantry Basic/AIT together, and I learned how to clean the hell out of a restroom/latrine and I've polished a floor so well that a Drill Sgt slipped on it and busted his ass - but it didn't make me a janitor (he loved the floor).

What I got from it was that it was a graduate course in advanced infantry skills. Yes, it taught you how to make decisions under stress and you had to lead patrols and such, but I got a lot of other good skills from it, mainly how to survive on no sleep and no food for many days at a time. I can honestly say that I was in a fog most of the time and don't remember much - except when I almost walked straight off a cliff and they guy who filled his ruck with balloons to make it look heavy (it got replaced with rocks after the RI caught him).

I guess it could be considered a leadership school, but I think it was way more than that - agony and torture school comes to mind.... Oh, you can eat dirt without it killing you.

Posted: 3/17/2005 9:42:34 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
You guys keep refering to Ranger School as a leadership school. I don't get this.

It's kind of like saying that Basic training is a graduate school for the Custodial Arts. I was in Infantry Basic/AIT together, and I learned how to clean the hell out of a restroom/latrine and I've polished a floor so well that a Drill Sgt slipped on it and busted his ass - but it didn't make me a janitor (he loved the floor).

What I got from it was that it was a graduate course in advanced infantry skills. Yes, it taught you how to make decisions under stress and you had to lead patrols and such, but I got a lot of other good skills from it, mainly how to survive on no sleep and no food for many days at a time. I can honestly say that I was in a fog most of the time and don't remember much - except when I almost walked straight off a cliff and they guy who filled his ruck with balloons to make it look heavy (it got replaced with rocks after the RI caught him).

I guess it could be considered a leadership school, but I think it was way more than that - agony and torture school comes to mind.... Oh, you can eat dirt without it killing you.

Its certainly not the most in depth leadership school but better than PLDC. I still think it should replace PLDC. I though PLDC was a freaking joke, then again I was an 11B1P and everything they taught was a way of life for an regular infantry man who has been in a couple of years. The legs were having a more difficult time but it wasnt that hard. They learned how to march folks around in garrison

whooptie friggin doo.

You do have to admit, while Ranger school is more of a course in intestinal fortitude and learning how who suck it up and drive on, its many times better than PLDC. How many NCOs have you seen in PLCD that were absolute pissbags who didnt deserve to be E2's? I saw plenty. And now they became NCOs and will pass on thier lack of fortitude to the other soldiers. In Ranger School how many did you see? 1? 0? Hell even good soldiers wash out and they had guts, their minds just couldnt cut it after the abuse.

We need SHARP NCOs and Ranger School provides them, unlike PLDC.

Posted: 3/17/2005 9:49:00 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Its certainly not the most in depth leadership school but better than PLDC.

I was asleep the whole time and made commandant's list... Not an accurate comparison.

Ranger school is voluntary and PLDC is mandatory. Nobody fails PLDC, they'll re-train a brick until it can pass.

Posted: 3/17/2005 10:49:05 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Its certainly not the most in depth leadership school but better than PLDC. I still think it should replace PLDC. I though PLDC was a freaking joke, then again I was an 11B1P and everything they taught was a way of life for an regular infantry man who has been in a couple of years. The legs were having a more difficult time but it wasnt that hard. They learned how to march folks around in garrison whooptie friggin doo.

You do have to admit, while Ranger school is more of a course in intestinal fortitude and learning how who suck it up and drive on, its many times better than PLDC. How many NCOs have you seen in PLCD that were absolute pissbags who didnt deserve to be E2's? I saw plenty. And now they became NCOs and will pass on thier lack of fortitude to the other soldiers. In Ranger School how many did you see? 1? 0? Hell even good soldiers wash out and they had guts, their minds just couldnt cut it after the abuse.

We need SHARP NCOs and Ranger School provides them, unlike PLDC.

God, I forgot about that. PLDC was a joke. At Campbell, the way to survive in the summer was to keep from dying of blood loss due to the mosquitoes sucking you dry. In Alaska, they would just carry you off to the nest and eat you later. At Campbell, they were so thick...... After PLDC, I was pink from the Calamine lotion I painted myself in. Well, that and the poison ivy and oak that the Army planted to make it interesting.....

You guys are making me itch now....

You are correct. PLDC is a joke and should be either removed and replaced with Ranger School or made to be a mini type Ranger course. We do need sharp NCO's and this is not such a bad idea.

Just don't waste the slot.

This is a great thread. Lots of memories. Some of them bad. Most of them good.

Carry on!

Posted: 3/17/2005 11:37:40 AM EDT

[#42]

Whoever was suggesting the idea that if you pass the pre-test, you make it through Ranger School automatically, seriously needs to lay off the stupid pills.

So you can pass the pre-test. What happens when you are sleep deprived, hungry, and being burnt-up over and over again? 61 days without much rest, almost always in a state of elevated physical activity.

And to the Marine, Rangers>Regular Infantry Marine.

Pre-tests, wash out rates, and rigorous constraints prove so. They're not turning civvies into Marines, they're making Soldiers into Rangers. Kid gloves are off.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Ranger School opens up - Soldiers don’t have to be in combat arms to attend (Page 2 of 2)

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