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Posted: 8/31/2004 12:05:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 12:17:44 PM EST by DoNotTreadOnMe]
Raising the Driving age to 18 would solve all kind of problems

Less Cars on the road - Less Traffic - Roads in better shape - LessTax needed
Less Accidents - Less Drunk Drivers - Insurance Cheaper - Less Tax Needed
Less Foreign Oil Used

Voting is a Right
Driving is a privledge

I know this is probably way off.. but something to think about!

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:19:16 PM EST
Sorry had to change it up and add a survey..
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:19:26 PM EST
What if we just made sure that people with DL's are actually capable of driving before we give them one?

Raising the driving age is stupid. Raising the standards to get a DL is not.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:23:02 PM EST
Age simply does not correlate to responsibility. Raising the legal age would do nothing to make idiots more responsible, and hurt those that already are. Feelgood, do-nothing legislation.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:23:02 PM EST
I should not have been driving at 16. Raise it up baby.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:25:51 PM EST
PLEASE CHANGE IT TO 18!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:26:39 PM EST
this thread should be locked.

IBTL
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:27:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sierra_Hombre:
this thread should be locked.

IBTL



Why?

Are you 17?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:32:30 PM EST
Make 18 the age of majority for everything
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:35:25 PM EST
I am 17, and i should not have been driving at 16, period.
I easily could have hurt somebody with my irresponsibility.
Now i feel i am a safe driver, but i had too many close calls when i was 16. I thank god i didn't hurt anyone.

I say raise it.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:37:18 PM EST
I teach these kids. They shouldn't be driving until 18.
I remember the stupid shit I did when I was 16-17, even 18. I shouldn't of had a DL either, and I never got a ticket, or in an accident.

Like it or not, age brings maturity for most.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:37:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 12:53:18 PM EST by SO-COM]
Needs to be a state issue, like most things. It's more of a judgement call based on what the statistics of their state show, relating to teenage driver saftey. But, it makes more sence to raise the LICENSE age to 18 while leaving the learners permit age at 16. Two years or surpervised driving wouldn't be a bad thing.


"Age brings maturity for most"

Well.... It sorta does, but age is more like evidence that the person has been alive to experience or see things to make them mature. I did a ton of stupid shit in cars, including a time I was nearly killed in a roll over. I took a turn in an SUV extremely fast, ended up barley catching the dirt on the shoulder with my rear right wheel, overcorrected, had the truck swerve back onto the drivers side at an agle that the force picked me up out of my seat and pushed me out the drivers window (I could see the ground and stepboards), then by a stroke of god, it flicked back instead of rolling. I friend that saw it said I should have rolled given how tilted the truck was. If it had rolled I probably would have been crushed. After that, the idea that it was cool and fun just kind of disappeared. Kinda put me back into the bag of bones I am, and gave me an idea of what that kinda force would do to my body. Most kids don't realise they can die, until they see it. I was 17.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:37:42 PM EST
I rolled my car when I was 16.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:39:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Make 18 the age of majority for everything



Preach it Brother

+1
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:40:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Age simply does not correlate to responsibility. Raising the legal age would do nothing to make idiots more responsible, and hurt those that already are. Feelgood, do-nothing legislation.



Like hell it don't.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:41:10 PM EST
Think of all of the accidents that would be avoided? I'd say grant exceptions in the cases of students in college. I was 17 in my freshman year.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:42:12 PM EST
How about testing the old bluehaired fuckers too! Jeasus Keeerist them old turds are agrivating on the road!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:42:39 PM EST
How about instead of telling kids, you're not allowed/able to take responsibility for things and we the grown ups will handle it for you, we should teach/require personal responsibility from them.

I see the growing trend of pushing off responsiblity for kids...and the only result of that is you now have 18 year olds who are acting as immature and irresponsible as 16 year olds were years ago. If you never give/require the kids to be responsible for their own actions how are they going to learn? Will sitting at home playing xbox for 2 more years teach them? I don't think so.

Plus you have the downside. Since every driver will be 18 and most likely out of high school, the only way the kids will be able to get around is by having friends who are out of highschool and most likely in college. So as an unintended consequence of not letting kids mature you will be forcing the college life style on 14, 15, 16, and 17 year olds. If you think drinking and sex is bad in high schools now wait until you see what happens after you force them to hang around college kids.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:44:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Balzac72:
Think of all of the accidents that would be avoided? I'd say grant exceptions in the cases of students in college - who live off-campus. I was 17 in my freshman year.



At my university, freshmen have to live on-campus, IIRC.


I agree that the age of majority (or whatever the term is) should be the same for everything - drinking, voting, driving, etc.

I've never understood why we think it's fine for 16 year-olds to be driving around in public in powerful cars that weigh thousands of pounds, but we cannot trust them with a beer or a ballot. We can either trust someone to make good choices, or we cannot.

I don't think we can at 16, but obviously we have to at some point, and 18 seems reasonable. If someone is still an immature asshat at 18, they probably will be at 21 too.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:47:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 12:48:26 PM EST by The_Macallan]

Raise it to 18.

OR...

make any at-fault accident, DUI or serious moving violation (speeding, running stops, etc.) by a 16 or 17 year-old punishible by mandatory revocation of their driver's license until they're 21.



Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:49:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Age simply does not correlate to responsibility. Raising the legal age would do nothing to make idiots more responsible, and hurt those that already are. Feelgood, do-nothing legislation.



Like hell it don't.



I disagree completely. Observing people be more responsible as they age is a result of them fucking up and learning from it, because they weren't initially taught any different. A 16 year old that's taken Driver's Ed and had good driving experience will be a better driver than a cherry 18-year-old, EVERY TIME.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:51:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Age simply does not correlate to responsibility. Raising the legal age would do nothing to make idiots more responsible, and hurt those that already are. Feelgood, do-nothing legislation.




So, if age doesn't related to responsibility or judgemnt, we could lower the age to 12 and not have any more accidents?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:51:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 12:51:41 PM EST by fight4yourrights]
Do think the Driving age should be 70?

Since DoNotTreadOnMe is going after the kids, let's go after the old farts.


Limiting the Driving age to 70 would solve all kind of problems

Less Cars on the road - Less Traffic - Roads in better shape - LessTax needed
Less Accidents - Less Drunk Drivers - Insurance Cheaper - Less Tax Needed
Less Foreign Oil Used

Voting is a Right
Driving is a privledge

I know this is probably way off.. but something to think about!

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:56:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 12:57:37 PM EST by MMcCall]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Age simply does not correlate to responsibility. Raising the legal age would do nothing to make idiots more responsible, and hurt those that already are. Feelgood, do-nothing legislation.




So, if age doesn't related to responsibility or judgemnt, we could lower the age to 12 and not have any more accidents?



Well, apart from being able to reach the pedals, there's something about a pubescent girl behind the wheel that scares me pissless

Seriously though, the only argument that holds water with me in favor of raising it to 18 is that a driver should be majority age so as to be legally responsible for their actions. I think a lot of the shit that kids pull is because they know it'll go easy for them if they're under 18 and screw the pooch. (It was for me)
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:58:15 PM EST
Driving is not a right. Kids can take the bus or ride a bike. Or a horse.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:58:32 PM EST
I have been preaching this for years!

In addition to traffic fatalities, it would also significantly lower gang-banger activity, drive-by shootings, and lower overall juvenile crime. I did some assignments in conjunction with the county Organized Gangs Unit several years ago and I learned one important thing; the real players are businessmen who do not want to attract attention to themselves with brainless shi'ite like flashing gang signs and constant drive-by shootings. They are in business to sell drugs, pimp out their ho's and make other monetary gains. It's the "wanna-be's" who are the most dangerous. The little nothing shi'ites who are out trying to make a name for themselves by trying to act like players.

Raise the driving age to 18 and pull over anyone who even looks close to under-age. You won't see to many drive-by shootings from bicycles!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:00:13 PM EST
I was driving at age 15 1/2 (with my parents).
My first accident didn't happen until I was 19.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:00:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
I rolled my car when I was 16.



Don't you think that could have been less because of your age and more because of the fact you were still learning how to drive

Seriously, if we raise the level to 18, next thing you know a bunch of people are gonna start bitching about how the age should be raised to 21 and maybe then will folks complain some more and say it should be raised to 24....
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:23:55 PM EST
wow - looks like we have some 16 year olds on the board.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:35:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
I have been preaching this for years!

In addition to traffic fatalities, it would also significantly lower gang-banger activity, drive-by shootings, and lower overall juvenile crime. I did some assignments in conjunction with the county Organized Gangs Unit several years ago and I learned one important thing; the real players are businessmen who do not want to attract attention to themselves with brainless shi'ite like flashing gang signs and constant drive-by shootings. They are in business to sell drugs, pimp out their ho's and make other monetary gains. It's the "wanna-be's" who are the most dangerous. The little nothing shi'ites who are out trying to make a name for themselves by trying to act like players.

Raise the driving age to 18 and pull over anyone who even looks close to under-age. You won't see to many drive-by shootings from bicycles!



I'm sure since they wouldn't be old enough to get a license yet they wouldn't dare take a chance doing a drive -by shooting!

Jeeez! Give me a break! Raising the driving age wouldn't hava a shittin' thing to do with drive-by shootings or gang related problems, just like banning guns keeps guns out of the hands of criminals!

Sounds like typical liberal-democrat bull-shit!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:40:04 PM EST
the driving age should be the same age as that where you can be legaly tried as an adult, and be responsible for your actions. Same for drinking.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:44:42 PM EST
Its bullshit to raise the age. Its east for you to want to do that now that you are older than 18. Perhaps driving classes and actual road safety courses are in order. I worked my ass off going to work(driving a beater) from 16-21 so I could by a new car. Its not right to take that opportunity away from people who DO deserve to have a license.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:11:33 PM EST
My car was totaled 2 weeks ago by a 16 year old kid who had a drivers liscence for a grand total of 2 mounths and 5 dayy.



Can you guess how I voted?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:15:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
I have been preaching this for years!

In addition to traffic fatalities, it would also significantly lower gang-banger activity, drive-by shootings, and lower overall juvenile crime.



Kind of like getting rid of guns will lower crime?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 2:16:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheHappyBlaster:
My car was totaled 2 weeks ago by a 16 year old kid who had a drivers liscence for a grand total of 2 mounths and 5 dayy.



Can you guess how I voted?



When I was 16 my car was totaled by an adult who had plenty of time to learn to drive(Police and insurance companies said the other driver was at fault), whats your point?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:36:32 PM EST
Yeah, sure let people start driving right when they move away from home and don't have any supervision, or instruction.

It will never happen here. Parents don't have time to take their children to all of the activities they participate in at ages 16 and 17, and certainly it would retard development. It would also harm the economy by taking essentially everyone aged 16 and 17 out of the workplace, at least in towns like mine, where the average commute is close to 20 miles.

At the age of 18, I had two years/75k miles driving experience, and NO accidents. Its true that most 16 and 17 year olds have at least one minor accident, but that is due mainly to inexperience, which will be just as much a problem with older kids.

Pale_Pony, we don't have gangs here, your issue is not our issue.

I agree with raising the standards for drivers, but I was ready to drive at 16. In fact, I got in 1 1/2 years of college BECAUSE I could drive the 45 minutes each morning to class. And I have had a job 45 minutes from home since I was 16.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:45:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Age simply does not correlate to responsibility. Raising the legal age would do nothing to make idiots more responsible, and hurt those that already are. Feelgood, do-nothing legislation.



Insurance statistics tell a much different story. Teenage drivers are involved in accidents at two and a half times the national norm. Every tear, better than 10,000 16 year olds are involved in vehicular fatalities.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:47:48 PM EST
older people are much more dangerous than young drivers.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:48:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Age simply does not correlate to responsibility. Raising the legal age would do nothing to make idiots more responsible, and hurt those that already are. Feelgood, do-nothing legislation.



Insurance statistics tell a much different story. Teenage drivers are involved in accidents at two and a half times the national norm. Every tear, better than 10,000 16 year olds are involved in vehicular fatalities.



Maybe they get into more accidents since they lack driving experience which has nothing to do with age.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:52:09 PM EST
We should keep the driving liscense's as is. I was driving at 15 1/2, got into my first accident at 16. Mostly because I am near blind in my left eye from Amblyopia, it's like 20/80 when I close my right and concentrate on using my left. I moved from VA to TN and had a hard time getting a DL. I am still not a confident driver and never will be.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:09:21 PM EST
Best response I've read on this thread so far.

Like Mr. Jack said here, let people learn to drive when they are under the thumb of their parents...something I hadn't considered. AND there is the issue of retarded development...like he brings up. I sure as shit hope noone brings up some Eurotrash country and their driving age requirements. They have much higher population densities and therefore much more public transportation to use.

MY biggest concern is on the economic front in that you will be removing a big chunk of the cheap labor force from the landscape. AND, you will be robbing them of early lessons in work ethic.

Yes yes, teens are responsible for disproportionate amount of auto accidents and deaths. They kill themselves, and others. I don't give a shit. If my parents were killed tomorrow by a drunk teenager getting blown by his girlfriend in his riced out Civic, my opinion would not change. I am surprised people ON THIS BOARD want more of a Nanny Government in this country and quite frankly disgusts me.

Driving not a right, but a privledge? My ass. It should be a right. Screw up too bad and such rights can be revoked like others.

Even if a valid study could come up tomorrow that proves without a shadow of a doubt that an outright ban on all civilian ownership of firearms in this country would make us all safer from ourselves as a whole...I still would not support it.

Some freedoms have a price.



Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Yeah, sure let people start driving right when they move away from home and don't have any supervision, or instruction.

It will never happen here. Parents don't have time to take their children to all of the activities they participate in at ages 16 and 17, and certainly it would retard development. It would also harm the economy by taking essentially everyone aged 16 and 17 out of the workplace, at least in towns like mine, where the average commute is close to 20 miles.

At the age of 18, I had two years/75k miles driving experience, and NO accidents. Its true that most 16 and 17 year olds have at least one minor accident, but that is due mainly to inexperience, which will be just as much a problem with older kids.

Pale_Pony, we don't have gangs here, your issue is not our issue.

I agree with raising the standards for drivers, but I was ready to drive at 16. In fact, I got in 1 1/2 years of college BECAUSE I could drive the 45 minutes each morning to class. And I have had a job 45 minutes from home since I was 16.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:10:22 PM EST
I'm 16 and I'm a good driver. I have many friends who drive and are 16, they are good drivers as well.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:14:39 PM EST
They should let kids start driving with their parents when they are 14 so they have more experience when they hit 16. I'm sure a few of you guys grew up on farms and drove at an early age.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:26:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 4:33:25 PM EST by AR15fan]
Considering that in my county, we have had more fatal traffic accidents so far this year than in any of the last ten years, I'm all for it.

We had no less than 7 teens who live in the same small city as me were sent to the hospital this weekend from car crashes related to street racing, alcohol, & marijuana. One died, 3 more might still die.

Of course agressive policing, earlier in the night, would have prevented the collisions.

in crash number one they were partying all night, with alcohol and marijuana, before the fatal collision. Had the cops detained them for MIP or marijuana, and released them into the custody of their parents, they would still be alive today.

in the second crash they were hanging out at the beach until 0330 hours. Again, had the cops found them, and detained them for Curfew and released them to their parents, they would still be alive today.

cops should not look the other way on petty juvenile violations. if you do it leads to date rapes and car crashes later.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:27:38 PM EST
18
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:28:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Considering that in my county, we have had more fatal traffic accidents so far this year than in any of the last ten years, I'm all for it.

We had no less than 7 teens from my city sent to the hospital this weekend from car crashes related to street racing, alcohol, & marijuana. One died, 3 more might still die.



Proof that natural selection exists
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:31:46 PM EST
I got mine at 15, could have got it at 14 and driving for agriculture or with a permit at 13. We didn't have any more problems than we have now. I got to college and was living with others who had been driving for 6 weeks! Talk about a shock!

I fly traffic patrol every day. Age has no lock on bad driving habits or lack of skill. Actual standards would be fine. Age is not a suitable reason for either issuing or denying a driving license. My sister was driving to her math tutor's house at 14. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:33:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By akethan:
They should let kids start driving with their parents when they are 14 so they have more experience when they hit 16. I'm sure a few of you guys grew up on farms and drove at an early age.



Could drive a stick and tune a car by age 11. We went to driver's ed to show off, not to learn. Planerench.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:29:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zippy_The_Wonderdog:
Best response I've read on this thread so far.

Like Mr. Jack said here, let people learn to drive when they are under the thumb of their parents...something I hadn't considered. AND there is the issue of retarded development...like he brings up. I sure as shit hope noone brings up some Eurotrash country and their driving age requirements. They have much higher population densities and therefore much more public transportation to use.

Yes yes, teens are responsible for disproportionate amount of auto accidents and deaths. They kill themselves, and others. I don't give a shit. If my parents were killed tomorrow by a drunk teenager getting blown by his girlfriend in his riced out Civic, my opinion would not change. I am surprised people ON THIS BOARD want more of a Nanny Government in this country and quite frankly disgusts me.
Driving not a right, but a privledge? My ass. It should be a right. Screw up too bad and such rights can be revoked like others.


+1

I had to start driving by my self when I was thirteen on the roads around the ranch I grew up on. By the time I was sixteen I was driving 2 1/2 ton dump trucks with 18 foot beds fully loaded in Tacoma and Seattle. I wrecked my Thunder bird twice when I was 17. Once the brakes went out and once miss judged a wet corner. I can tell you I believe having the extra driving experience has saved my life and others more than once driving Semi's long haul 48 states from the time I was about 27. I'm 33 now. I don't believe I'm the best driver on the road but I sure as hell don't point my truck down the road (close my eyes) and hope I get there. Like 40% of the people on the road do. (Note: stay the hell away from Swift trucks they kill) I have seen people in there mid 20s & 30s that can't drive worth a shit. And I have seen 16 year olds drive like they know what the hell they are doing. Bottom line is age has nothing to do with driving skill. Skill has to be acquired and practiced.


Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:55:56 PM EST
I have heard that the earlier you learn to drive the safer a driver you are as you get older. My mom was driving tractors at age 8 and she's still a very safe driver.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 6:15:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I have heard that the earlier you learn to drive the safer a driver you are as you get older. My mom was driving tractors at age 8 and she's still a very safe driver.

GunLvr



I can believe that.
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