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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/13/2005 5:23:00 AM EDT
If you get the technician license will that allow you to transmit on GMRS as well?

Thanks in Advance.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 5:32:30 AM EDT
NO

Your Tech license only grants you permission to use those allowed to your class of license.

GMRS is another service all together.



In case of an EMERGENCY, ANY freq/mode may be used.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 6:47:51 PM EDT
Thanks RED_5,

Took the practice test today for the tech license, was just curious.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 6:50:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RED_5:
NO

Your Tech license only grants you permission to use those allowed to your class of license.

GMRS is another service all together.



In case of an EMERGENCY, ANY freq/mode may be used.



Is the emergency thing for anyone or just techs? How do you goabout taking it?

Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 6:53:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By soowah:
If you get the technician license will that allow you to transmit on GMRS as well?

Thanks in Advance.



No, there is no test for GMRS, just an 80 dollar license fee.
It's boring there
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 6:53:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Penguin_101:
Is the emergency thing for anyone or just techs? How do you goabout taking it?
Thanks!



In a life-threatening emergency, a call for help on any frequency, in any mode, is permissible.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 6:54:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Penguin_101:

Originally Posted By RED_5:
NO

Your Tech license only grants you permission to use those allowed to your class of license.

GMRS is another service all together.



In case of an EMERGENCY, ANY freq/mode may be used.



Is the emergency thing for anyone or just techs? How do you goabout taking it?

Thanks!



If you have a genuine emergency, you don't need any license at all, but you might have
to prove it up later to avoid fines...
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 6:55:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 6:56:42 PM EDT by soowah]



<snip>

In case of an EMERGENCY, ANY freq/mode may be used.


Is the emergency thing for anyone or just techs? How do you goabout taking it?

Thanks!



Start Here.......linky
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 6:57:11 PM EDT
Someone pinning you down with machine gun fire would be considered an emergency as would your being trapped on top of a burning building.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:01:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By soowah:



<snip>

In case of an EMERGENCY, ANY freq/mode may be used.


Is the emergency thing for anyone or just techs? How do you goabout taking it?

Thanks!



Start Here.......linky



Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:04:07 PM EDT
to clarify:

in an emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is OK.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:05:15 PM EDT
Funny, a person ready to take a HAM test should already know
that any amateur license doesn't grant permission to use GMRS.

As far as a ham using any frequency in an emergency....

YES, that is true. A licensed ham can transmit on any frequency
to protect life or even property if no other immideate means of
communication are available.

But 99.99% of the local law enforcement, prosecutors, lawyers, etc. don't know that
and will throw a hissy fit if they think you have the capabilities.

It is written in plain English in the CFR, yet I still had to obtain
a written interpretation from the FCC in order to get my radio back
from the local PD. They confiscated it and accused me of
"illegally modifying" my HT, because it could RX/TX on their frequencies,
and could decode/encode their subaudible tones.

Before anyone starts accusing me of anything...
NO, they hadn't been receiving unidentified traffic or other interference on their freqs.
NO, I wasn't doing anything that caused them to suspect me of doing, or planning to
do any harm to their system.

Lets just say that I shouldn't mention to a group of idiots that I have a radio capable of doing that
without telling them how and why it is legal.



Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:07:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 7:08:02 PM EDT by The_Reaper]

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
If you have a genuine emergency, you don't need any license at all, but you might have
to prove it up later to avoid fines...



Wrong.

Edit: Saying you don't need a license, but that you might have to pay a fine...
Just a little contradicting isn't it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:30:54 PM EDT
From my understanding of the law, it actually is illegal to modify an amateur radio to transmit out of ban even tough as stated above "in an emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is OK". I know it is contradictory, but that is our government. Part 97 covers the rules and regulations, but there are probably other parts of the Federal codes that can be used to prosecute someone. After getting permission, you can modify the radio's for other services such as MARS. But, transmitting on the wrong band can bring big fines. Also, fines have been issued for foul language even though the 1st amendment would seem to all this.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:42:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
If you have a genuine emergency, you don't need any license at all, but you might have
to prove it up later to avoid fines...



Wrong.

Edit: Saying you don't need a license, but that you might have to pay a fine...
Just a little contradicting isn't it.



No contradiction, but you better make sure your definition of emergency fits
with the FCC's.

It's clearly written in every FCC reg I've ever seen that all bets are off in an emergency,
excepting use of "public" frequencies ie Fire and Police.

So no, I am not wrong. You need to read some FCC documents.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:44:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RED_5:
to clarify:

in an emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is OK.



Not that simple, they always disallow use of what the FCC calls "public" frequencies,
ie Police and Fire. They make no allowances for any other use of that spectrum.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:50:12 PM EDT
Part of the any mode any frequency reasoning is that ships at sea use HF(or used to) to reach shore stations and in order to do that the signal has to bounce off of the ionosphere. Sun conditions and other weather conditions determine which frequencies will reflect back and which will not. You never know at a particular time which ones will work and which will not until you actually try them.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:51:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunham:
From my understanding of the law, it actually is illegal to modify an amateur radio to transmit out of ban even tough as stated above "in an emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is OK". I know it is contradictory, but that is our government. Part 97 covers the rules and regulations, but there are probably other parts of the Federal codes that can be used to prosecute someone.



Wrong.

It would be illegal to modify a radio to transmit out of it's specific frequency band
if and only if it was FCC "type accepted".

Since ham radios are not type accepted (by definition), they are exempt from any of the rules
pertaining to modifications.

This is because at the beginning of the hobby, and still practiced by some, ham radios
were built from scratch. You can't build a radio from scratch without modifications here and there.

ANYONE can purchase and legally modify a ham radio to his hearts content.

Pushing the transmit button requires a license.


Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:55:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 7:59:29 PM EDT by TexasSIG]

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By gunham:
From my understanding of the law, it actually is illegal to modify an amateur radio to transmit out of ban even tough as stated above "in an emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is OK". I know it is contradictory, but that is our government. Part 97 covers the rules and regulations, but there are probably other parts of the Federal codes that can be used to prosecute someone.



Wrong.

It would be illegal to modify a radio to transmit out of it's specific frequency band
if and only if it was FCC "type accepted".

Since ham radios are not type accepted (by definition), they are exempt from any of the rules
pertaining to modifications.

This is because at the beginning of the hobby, and still practiced by some, ham radios
were built from scratch. You can't build a radio from scratch without modifications here and there.

ANYONE can purchase and legally modify a ham radio to his hearts content.

Pushing the transmit button requires a license.






And if you do have a license, you may operate outside of the frequency limitations of that license
in an emergency.


ETA, you replied right after I posted this, we are in agreement
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 7:56:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By RED_5:
to clarify:

in an emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is OK.



Not that simple, they always disallow use of what the FCC calls "public" frequencies,
ie Police and Fire. They make no allowances for any other use of that spectrum.



RED_5 is half right.

A licensed ham, (regardless of the grade of license) in an emergency situation
(defined in the CFR as protecting life or property) can use any frequency and any mode to get help.

The Federal law makes this a privilege to licensed hams ONLY.
NOT "any person".


Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:03:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Not that simple, they always disallow use of what the FCC calls "public" frequencies,
ie Police and Fire. They make no allowances for any other use of that spectrum.



If I understand you correctly, we are contradicting each other.

The CFR is very clear that the FCC grants licensed hams the legal authority to use
police and fire frequencies in an emergency situation to protect life/property as long
as no other means of quick communication are available.

Local laws may make it illegal, but the FCC says it is okay.

Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:06:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Not that simple, they always disallow use of what the FCC calls "public" frequencies,
ie Police and Fire. They make no allowances for any other use of that spectrum.



If I understand you correctly, we are contradicting each other.

The CFR is very clear that the FCC grants licensed hams the legal authority to use
police and fire frequencies in an emergency situation to protect life/property as long
as no other means of quick communication are available.

Local laws may make it illegal, but the FCC says it is okay.




Well, in all 3 exams I took, tech, gen, extra it was very clear that police and fire
frequencies may NEVER be used.

It's in every ARRL study guide as well as the Gordon West study guides.

I haven't bothered to go chasing through the fed regs to find out for sure, but I'd
expect these people to have at least looked into it. So, dunno what to say really.

The exam pool has questions saying you can't do it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:10:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:
The Federal law makes this a privilege to licensed hams ONLY.
NOT "any person".



Wrong.

In a life threatening emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is permissible.

Geez people, think about it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:12:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Not that simple, they always disallow use of what the FCC calls "public" frequencies,
ie Police and Fire. They make no allowances for any other use of that spectrum.



If I understand you correctly, we are contradicting each other.

The CFR is very clear that the FCC grants licensed hams the legal authority to use
police and fire frequencies in an emergency situation to protect life/property as long
as no other means of quick communication are available.

Local laws may make it illegal, but the FCC says it is okay.




Well, in all 3 exams I took, tech, gen, extra it was very clear that police and fire
frequencies may NEVER be used.

It's in every ARRL study guide as well as the Gordon West study guides.

I haven't bothered to go chasing through the fed regs to find out for sure, but I'd
expect these people to have at least looked into it. So, dunno what to say really.

The exam pool has questions saying you can't do it.



Hold on, you might be right. I'm trying to find information....

My letter from the FCC says it is legal to modify and possess the radio capable of
transmitting on police band, but nothing regarding use in an emergency.

I need to find part 97...

Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:12:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWS:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:
The Federal law makes this a privilege to licensed hams ONLY.
NOT "any person".



Wrong.

In a life threatening emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is permissible.

Geez people, think about it.




That's the way I've read it in the study guides for all 3 exams, except they make a point
of saying you can't use the police and fire. I'm looking at my Gordon West study guide for General right
now and it says exactly that, but it doesn't reference a particular section of the regs....
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:14:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 8:15:04 PM EDT by TexasSIG]

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:


Hold on, you might be right. I'm trying to find information....

My letter from the FCC says it is legal to modify and possess the radio capable of
transmitting on police band, but nothing regarding use in an emergency.

I need to find part 97...




Honestly I don't know if I'm right or not, that's just what the test questions say.
I'm looking in the Gordon West books, but they don't reference any regs, it just
says "never use fire or police frequencies"......

Truth is if I was in trouble, I'd not be worried about the FCC anyway, I guess
that's the important part.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:18:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:
Funny, a person ready to take a HAM test should already know
that any amateur license doesn't grant permission to use GMRS.



Funny, I never said that I was ready to take the HAM test, I said I took the practice test.

I have 3 semesters of Telecommunication Engineering work towards my MSEE, I wanted to see how well I could do w/o actually studying for it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:22:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Honestly I don't know if I'm right or not, that's just what the test questions say.
I'm looking in the Gordon West books, but they don't reference any regs, it just
says "never use fire or police frequencies"......

Truth is if I was in trouble, I'd not be worried about the FCC anyway, I guess
that's the important part.



There is a difference between knowing the law, and knowing the exceptions.

Of course nobody other than a police officer should use police frequencies.

And like you said, if I was in trouble, I'd rather be in jail than dead.

Here is some info:

TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE--Table of Contents
Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications
Sec. 97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.

No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station
of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential
communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human
life and immediate protection of property when normal communication
systems are not available.

ALSO

TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION
COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE--Table of Contents
Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications

Sec. 97.405 Station in distress.
(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur
station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention,
make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in
the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this
section, of any means of radiocommunications at its disposal to assist a
station in distress.

Granted, I am not an FCC official, but MY interpretation is that no part of the rules
pertaining to amateur radio operation prevents me from using a modified ham radio
from transmitting on police band in an emergency.

HOWEVER, I am willing to admit that other rules may exist elsewhere in the CFR
that DO prevent it.

I'm still looking.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:26:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWS:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:
The Federal law makes this a privilege to licensed hams ONLY.
NOT "any person".



Wrong.

In a life threatening emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is permissible.

Geez people, think about it.



There is a big difference between what is technically legal, and what would be allowed/overlooked.

I believe we are discussing the legal aspect. What is written in the CFR.

I doubt anyone would argue that in an emergency, a citizen would be praised for using a police
radio, or a ham radio on a police frequency. But is it technically legal?


Link Posted: 8/13/2005 8:28:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Honestly I don't know if I'm right or not, that's just what the test questions say.
I'm looking in the Gordon West books, but they don't reference any regs, it just
says "never use fire or police frequencies"......

Truth is if I was in trouble, I'd not be worried about the FCC anyway, I guess
that's the important part.



There is a difference between knowing the law, and knowing the exceptions.



I sounded like a real ass with this part of my reply.

It isn't what I meant.

What I meant was that the study guides teach the important things,
and gloss over if not completely ignore some finer details.

Link Posted: 8/13/2005 11:59:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunham:
From my understanding of the law, it actually is illegal to modify an amateur radio to transmit out of ban even tough as stated above "in an emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is OK". I know it is contradictory, but that is our government. Part 97 covers the rules and regulations, but there are probably other parts of the Federal codes that can be used to prosecute someone. After getting permission, you can modify the radio's for other services such as MARS. But, transmitting on the wrong band can bring big fines. Also, fines have been issued for foul language even though the 1st amendment would seem to all this.



No. You can modify your radio to cover any band you want. You are only prohibited from transmitting on bands outside of that permitted by your license class.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:03:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By SWS:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:
The Federal law makes this a privilege to licensed hams ONLY.
NOT "any person".



Wrong.

In a life threatening emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is permissible.

Geez people, think about it.




That's the way I've read it in the study guides for all 3 exams, except they make a point
of saying you can't use the police and fire. I'm looking at my Gordon West study guide for General right
now and it says exactly that, but it doesn't reference a particular section of the regs....



I think that the published books are making that point to avoid the...problems...with the...common-sense-disabled hams.


They don't want some dipshi--er, Helpful Ham--deciding to jump onto the police band with their modified Kenwood handheld and call for Emergency Help for their flat tire.

Any thinking person will realize that in a true, life-or-death, no-other-option emergency, you use whatever means are at your disposal to save lives. Regardless of frequency, regardless of law.

Jim
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:29:11 AM EDT
A bit off topic, but since the thread has already been hijacked, what the hell.

Looks like the FCC is going to drop the 5WPM code requirement. If you have a tech license, only additional written tests on theory will be required to upgrade to General or Extra class.

Just an FYI.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:34:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
A bit off topic, but since the thread has already been hijacked, what the hell.

Looks like the FCC is going to drop the 5WPM code requirement. If you have a tech license, only additional written tests on theory will be required to upgrade to General or Extra class.

Just an FYI.



Read that this yesterday morning. I guess 1 less thing I have to study up on....
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:40:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By soowah:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
A bit off topic, but since the thread has already been hijacked, what the hell.

Looks like the FCC is going to drop the 5WPM code requirement. If you have a tech license, only additional written tests on theory will be required to upgrade to General or Extra class.

Just an FYI.



Read that this yesterday morning. I guess 1 less thing I have to study up on....



Is the question pool available online anywhere that you know of?
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 12:44:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Originally Posted By soowah:

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
A bit off topic, but since the thread has already been hijacked, what the hell.

Looks like the FCC is going to drop the 5WPM code requirement. If you have a tech license, only additional written tests on theory will be required to upgrade to General or Extra class.

Just an FYI.



Read that this yesterday morning. I guess 1 less thing I have to study up on....



Is the question pool available online anywhere that you know of?



www.qrz.com
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 1:01:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:
Funny, a person ready to take a HAM test should already know
that any amateur license doesn't grant permission to use GMRS.

As far as a ham using any frequency in an emergency....

YES, that is true. A licensed ham can transmit on any frequency
to protect life or even property if no other immideate means of
communication are available.

But 99.99% of the local law enforcement, prosecutors, lawyers, etc. don't know that
and will throw a hissy fit if they think you have the capabilities.

It is written in plain English in the CFR, yet I still had to obtain
a written interpretation from the FCC in order to get my radio back
from the local PD. They confiscated it and accused me of
"illegally modifying" my HT, because it could RX/TX on their frequencies,
and could decode/encode their subaudible tones.

Before anyone starts accusing me of anything...
NO, they hadn't been receiving unidentified traffic or other interference on their freqs.
NO, I wasn't doing anything that caused them to suspect me of doing, or planning to
do any harm to their system.

Lets just say that I shouldn't mention to a group of idiots that I have a radio capable of doing that
without telling them how and why it is legal.



Cops are worse sometmes about making shit up about radio laws than they are about gun laws. Some assume that like guns since they use radios it makes them experts.

Back home I carry a full copy of the federal and state radio laws that pertain to amatuer radio with me when I travel, just because I have run into too many who like to make things up as they go along.

You are not alone in what happened either, the ARRL has on its website lots of similar cases. In one the radio had not been modified, and was in fact incapable of being modified, but the PD took it anyway and when they reurned it thye had tried to modify it after they took it and ruined it.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 1:04:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:

Originally Posted By RED_5:
to clarify:

in an emergency, any person, any frequency, any mode is OK.



Not that simple, they always disallow use of what the FCC calls "public" frequencies,
ie Police and Fire. They make no allowances for any other use of that spectrum.



RED_5 is half right.

A licensed ham, (regardless of the grade of license) in an emergency situation
(defined in the CFR as protecting life or property) can use any frequency and any mode to get help.

The Federal law makes this a privilege to licensed hams ONLY.
NOT "any person".





Wrong. In an emergency anyone may use whatever means nessecary to communicate. Part 97 only covers hams, but the same wording exists in all the other valid FCC parts also.
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 5:06:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PeteCO:
A bit off topic, but since the thread has already been hijacked, what the hell.

Looks like the FCC is going to drop the 5WPM code requirement. If you have a tech license, only additional written tests on theory will be required to upgrade to General or Extra class.

Just an FYI.




With the time it takes FCC to implement things, it will still be early to mid 2006 before
that actually happens, so don't get too excited. They have not set an actual effective
date for this yet.
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