no worries, it was the will of allah

cry me a river.

Wow they are going light on the smothering, stampeeding, and fires this year.

That is lower than normal. If I remember right several years ago they were well over 1000 dead.

This would make it go even higher:

ROP, Rip,  just hope that the state department doesn't jump in to send relief teams to help.

Good

Every year this shit happens. Either from stampedes or that rock throwing at the pillar of "the Shaytan" or God (Allah?!) knows what else. pretty fucking sad and fucked up if you ask me. but then again I could give a shit if a bunch o' Hajis wanna kill themselves for stupidity. How could allah carte allow these things to happen in his 'magic kingdom'????

someone should protest and burn a bunch of cars.

No beheadings of women or non-Muslims?

WTF? Islam is getting weak!

What does Pat Robertson have to say about this?

-Gator

Only 80?

Those poor darling people!!  How utterly tragic!

It's a start.

FUCK EM!

Quoted: Your all heartless!

Azrael has touched Islam!

Quoted: Sat, January 7, 2006 Pilgrim death toll nears 80 in Mecca By AP   MECCA, Saudi Arabia -- Hundreds of men using cranes, hand tools and blow torches pulled bodies from the rubble of a four-storey building that collapsed in Islam's holiest city. Authorities said yesterday the death toll reached at least 76. The Saudi Interior Ministry also said Thursday's collapse injured 62. The nationalities of the victims were not released. The disaster marred the start of the annual gathering of millions of Muslims for the hajj pilgrimage that begins Monday. More than one million attended yesterday's prayers in the Grand Mosque, just 61 metres away from the building that collapsed. Yesterday afternoon, about 24 hours after the collapse, workers called off the search for survivors in the pile of concrete and steel. The building had shops and restaurants and was used as a hotel during the hajj. "We did all we can. The operation is now over," said the general in charge of the site. "It was a horrible accident, but my Muslim brothers who died will go to paradise," said a Pakistani pilgrim, Rahimi Farouki. According to Islam, anyone who dies on the way to, or during, the hajj is a martyr and goes to heaven. Hundreds of men worked through the night to remove huge slabs of concrete, stopping to use microphones to listen for survivors. No survivors were found yesterday. http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/World/2006/01/07/1382973-sun.html

Andy

Nothing to see here...move on please...
Is there no worthy Brit bashing threads this week?

I read muslim,martyr and slabs of concrete....that's all I needed to know.

Taffy

Wow.  Busy season this year.

They haven't even gotten around to the ritual tramplings yet and the bodycount is already 80+.

Tell me, do these clowns have any way of dying that they DON'T consider martyrdom?

More proof that God hates islam, they can all rot in hell if I can help them get there faster.

Eh, I knew I felt a disturbence in the force.

Quoted: FUCK EM! img348.imageshack.us/img348/7541/55sonicjihad32sl.jpg

Wow havent seen that one in awhile, wonder whose troll account that is??

ROT!

Quoted: Quoted: FUCK EM! img348.imageshack.us/img348/7541/55sonicjihad32sl.jpg Wow havent seen that one in awhile, wonder whose troll account that is??

Why am I a troll?

Oh well

Quoted: Every year this shit happens. Either from stampedes or that rock throwing at the pillar of "the Shaytan" or God (Allah?!) knows what else. pretty fucking sad and fucked up if you ask me. but then again I could give a shit if a bunch o' Hajis wanna kill themselves for stupidity. How could allah carte allow these things to happen in his 'magic kingdom'????

now that is funny!

way to go GW. how DOES he do it?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FUCK EM! img348.imageshack.us/img348/7541/55sonicjihad32sl.jpg Wow havent seen that one in awhile, wonder whose troll account that is?? Why am I a troll?

I think troll is a term for a non team member , that would make me a troll as well. A heavily armed troll. Don't worry about it.

Quoted: way to go GW. how DOES he do it?

He used the Halliburton mini-earthquake machine.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FUCK EM! img348.imageshack.us/img348/7541/55sonicjihad32sl.jpg Wow havent seen that one in awhile, wonder whose troll account that is?? Why am I a troll? I think troll is a term for a non team member , that would make me a troll as well. A heavily armed troll. Don't worry about it.

actually, i believe a troll is someone who posts stupid replies in hopes of stirring up controversy. then they usually reply rarely, preferring instead to watch the suckers slur them on the boards.

Only 80?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FUCK EM! img348.imageshack.us/img348/7541/55sonicjihad32sl.jpg Wow havent seen that one in awhile, wonder whose troll account that is?? Why am I a troll? I think troll is a term for a non team member , that would make me a troll as well. A heavily armed troll. Don't worry about it.hr actually, i believe a troll is someone who posts stupid replies in hopes of stirring up controversy. then they usually reply rarely, preferring instead to watch the suckers slur them on the boards.

Oh, thank you. I learn something new every day. I'll do my best to NOT be a troll.

Quoted: What does Pat Robertson have to say about this? -Gator

Wasn't this the day after the Orthodox Christmas? If it was, then it appears that disasters befall the ROP the day after Easter and Christmas on a regular basis now.

The only thing that could be better would be more of it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FUCK EM! img348.imageshack.us/img348/7541/55sonicjihad32sl.jpg Wow havent seen that one in awhile, wonder whose troll account that is?? Why am I a troll?

I think he believes you are someone who has been around a while posting under a different name (troll account) as that pic is an oldie that hasn't been seen lately.

.

definitely bushes fault.

Quoted: definitely bushes fault.

Definitely.

Quoted: Quoted: What does Pat Robertson have to say about this? -Gator Wasn't this the day after the Orthodox Christmas? If it was, then it appears that disasters befall the ROP the day after Easter and Christmas on a regular basis now.

Like a big earthquake in Iran 12/26/03 and the  tidal wave on 12/26/04?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: FUCK EM! img348.imageshack.us/img348/7541/55sonicjihad32sl.jpg Wow havent seen that one in awhile, wonder whose troll account that is?? Why am I a troll? I think he believes you are someone who has been around a while posting under a different name (troll account) as that pic is an oldie that hasn't been seen lately.

No i got it from Swindles Post....thought it was fitting.

On a sombre note, this year's annual Hajj pilgrimage has been marred by the collapse of a hotel in Makkah, with the death toll currently at 76. May God have mercy on their souls.

The Hajj is one of the five Pillars of Islam, a pilgrimage that is an annual event, and an obligation for every able-bodied Muslim to undertake at least once in their life. It is a very spiritual occasion for all concerned, visiting the central sites of our religion in the company of fellow-pilgrims from around the world.

Unfortunately, it is often accompanied by tragedy.
In 2004, 251 were killed and 254 were injured during a stampede.
In 1998, 118 were trampled to death in one incident.
In 1997, 343 were killed and 1500 injured as the result of a fire in a tent city.
In 1994, a stampede killed 270.
In 1990, a stampede inside a pedestrian tunnel killed 1426

All of these incidents were related directly or indirectly to the large numbers involved, and the relatively small area thru which they travel. This year, there will be an estimated two million pilgrims in the Makkah area, an extremely small city. At various times the pilgrims are going to the central Mosque and circling the Kaaba, walking between the two hills of Safa and Marwah, or, the most dangerous part, converging to throw stones at 3 pillars in Mina. There are extensive tunnels and underpasses to handle the crowds, but stampedes and crushes are unfortunately inevitable, whatever measures are taken.

What our various "Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques" Kings, or religious establishment, never seem to consider, is whether this annual pilgrimage can continue to be viable in its present form. Probably because it's a fundamental pillar of our religion, it seems to be a taboo subject, it just never seems to get discussed.

Back in the early centuries, when there were only tens or hundreds of thousands of Muslims, it wasn't an issue. All of them could make, had they been able, the pilgrimage once or several times in their lifetime. The major inhibitor was the journey time - weeks of camel travel from the outlying areas of Muslim habitation. Difficult transport was pretty much the situation until the last century, when the Ottoman Turks built their railway all the way down into Arabia.

But things are different now. Queues of 747's fly into Jeddah's North Terminal, disgorging hundreds at a time, at a cost and a journey time that is a fraction of what it was. And even though Muslim populations are on average amongst the poorest in the world, gradually increasing living standards coupled with decreasing air travel costs make it more and more possible.

I presume someone, somewhere, has done the basic arithmetic. The current Muslim population is 1.6 billion. Even assuming no population growth, then at that date in the future when they can all afford the airfare, and generously assuming a 70-year lifespan, during 60 of which they can travel, and assuming that each Muslim makes the trip only once in their lifetime (the better-off currently do it several times), then that would generate

26.7 million pilgrims each year

That compares to approximately two million at the moment. Ok it wouldn't happen this decade, or the next, but I've made some very favorable assumptions about life expectancy and population growth.

In fact it wouldn't happen at all, because no matter how many tunnels and overpasses we build, we simply won't get a crowd the size of half the population of England into an area the size of London's West End, and converging onto stone some pillars in an area the size of Piccadilly Circus. It's just not physically possible.

So at some point in the not-too-distant-future, someone is going to have to make a decision:

- Do we waive the requirement on every able-bodied Muslim to perform Hajj once in their lifetime?

- do we make it a regular (say monthly) rather than annual event?

- both?

This brings us to two issues.

- The Hajj obligation is right there in the Quran, no if's or but's.

- A recognised leader of the religion needs to be able to reintepret it, or modify it, or something. And we don't have one of those. As Pope Benedict himself said recently (and if you get the chance, read the whole thing, thanks nahncee) in discussion with some scholars.

....in the Islamic tradition, God has given His word to Mohammed, but it's an eternal word. It's not Mohammed's word. It's there for eternity the way it is. There's no possibility of adapting it or interpreting it, whereas in Christianity, and Judaism, the dynamism's completely different, that God has worked through His creatures. And so, it is not just the word of God, it's the word of Isaiah, not just the word of God, but the word of Mark. He's used His human creatures, and inspired them to speak His word to the world, and therefore by establishing a Church in which he gives authority to His followers to carry on the tradition and interpret it, there's an inner logic to the Christian Bible, which permits it and requires it to be adapted and applied to new situations....

....and this is from a Catholic point of view, there's no one to interpret the Koran officially. The Catholic Church has an official interpretor, which is the Holy Father with the bishops.

Well, we can all argue the theology of that from now till Doomsday, but the fact is that the Pope, if he so chooses, can make things change within a substantial portion of the Christian Church. Whereas we have no "Pope", in fact no one comparable.

However, whilst not an immediate problem, it won't go away. We can't just ignore it like the invention of musical instruments, and stick to our tambourines. Sooner or later, someone will need to make a decision.

But it won't be me. So I'll shut up for now.

muttawa.blogspot.com/2006_01_01_muttawa_archive.html#113665874353826185

God is mad at them

Quoted: (quoting from the blog) - The Hajj obligation is right there in the Quran, no if's or but's.

So is the whole "kill infidels" thing, but they would have us believe that some in their religion don't follow it?

Quoted: Quoted: (quoting from the blog) - The Hajj obligation is right there in the Quran, no if's or but's. So is the whole "kill infidels" thing, but they would have us believe that some in their religion don't follow it?

Ok, I'm sure you can grab a few sentences from the Koran to show your point, but is it in fucking context?  I could post a shitload of "quotes" from the bible that show that Chrisitan are just a bunch of blood thirsty murderers too.  And find proof in history as well. Big fucking deal.

..