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Posted: 7/15/2008 9:18:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 9:18:33 AM EDT by BuckeyeRifleman]
Maybe Bush lifting the offshore drilling ban finally popped the bubble.

I hope so...
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:23:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Maybe Bush lifting the offshore drilling ban finally popped the bubble.

I hope so...



It will never work, just ask Nancy.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:24:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:25:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 9:26:13 AM EDT by evo462]

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Maybe Bush lifting the offshore drilling ban finally popped the bubble.

I hope so...



It will never work, just ask Nancy.



And Osama Obama.

What's weird is gas prices actually went up 12 cents overnight last night, yet oil was down a few dollars from when it peaked when the Iranians fired ze missiles. I don't get it.

12 cents forwards, 2 cents back.

What we need is for the oil market to be spooked that the bottom is about to fall out, which will prompt everyone to want to sell their oil before taking a big hit on it, and thus furthering the drop in price.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:26:36 AM EDT
Glenn Beck was talking last night about the deal where the skeptics say that even if we start drilling now, it'll take SEVEN years to see the results. Like he said, we put a man on the friggin' moon in not much more time than that. This is AMERICA, we should be able to do A LOT better than that.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:26:38 AM EDT
But it's not the speculators!!
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:29:09 AM EDT
must be down because of less demand or more supply

riiiiiiiiiiiiight
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:36:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Maybe Bush lifting the offshore drilling ban finally popped the bubble.

I hope so...



It will never work, just ask Nancy.



And Osama Obama.

What's weird is gas prices actually went up 12 cents overnight last night, yet oil was down a few dollars from when it peaked when the Iranians fired ze missiles. I don't get it.

12 cents forwards, 2 cents back.

What we need is for the oil market to be spooked that the bottom is about to fall out, which will prompt everyone to want to sell their oil before taking a big hit on it, and thus furthering the drop in price.



Because that is the gas that was purchased at the high price last month, now making it to us consumers.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:37:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
Glenn Beck was talking last night about the deal where the skeptics say that even if we start drilling now, it'll take SEVEN years to see the results. Like he said, we put a man on the friggin' moon in not much more time than that. This is AMERICA, we should be able to do A LOT better than that.


Even if it takes 7 years - so what?

The whole "It will take too long" cry drives me crazy. Everything takes time. Had we started this process back in 2001 we would be getting our first shipments of American oil by now.

Av.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:39:30 AM EDT
Seven years? Cool, my kids should be starting to drive about then. Perfect, actually!
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:39:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Maybe Bush lifting the offshore drilling ban finally popped the bubble.

I hope so...



It will never work, just ask Nancy.



And Osama Obama.

What's weird is gas prices actually went up 12 cents overnight last night, yet oil was down a few dollars from when it peaked when the Iranians fired ze missiles. I don't get it.

12 cents forwards, 2 cents back.

What we need is for the oil market to be spooked that the bottom is about to fall out, which will prompt everyone to want to sell their oil before taking a big hit on it, and thus furthering the drop in price.


I dont get it ours is going down...
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:40:22 AM EDT
Yup, the "it will take too long" bullshit is really getting old. When the Dems want everyone to change their lives to combat "global warming" they admit it will take years but want you to start NOW!

Of course when it comes to oil....well......it will just take too long.....don't bother.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:40:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Avalon01:

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
Glenn Beck was talking last night about the deal where the skeptics say that even if we start drilling now, it'll take SEVEN years to see the results. Like he said, we put a man on the friggin' moon in not much more time than that. This is AMERICA, we should be able to do A LOT better than that.


Even if it takes 7 years - so what?

The whole "It will take too long" cry drives me crazy. Everything takes time. Had we started this process back in 2001 we would be getting our first shipments of American oil by now.

Av.



I agree. We should have been doing it before now. But it's NEVER too late to start. So I hate the whiners on this as well. But you have to wonder how a country that went to the moon, built thousands of bombers/fighters for WWII, etc can't get some oil rigs offshore and oil flowing in less time than that.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:40:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 9:41:16 AM EDT by Cypher15]

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Maybe Bush lifting the offshore drilling ban finally popped the bubble.

I hope so...

actually it dropped another 46 cents. down 7.86 so far as of 1:30
www.bloomberg.com/energy/
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:40:57 AM EDT
Better to start now then wait even longer......

we have known we needed to do something about oil and our foreign dependence since the 70s....remember the gas lines back then? I do.....

yet they have done jack about it......jack......
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:41:04 AM EDT
Supply isn't now nor has it been the big problem. The major issue at hand is being able to process the crude. We don't have enough refineries to process the current supply fast enough. Envirowhaco's and tree huggers block any attempt at building new refineries. We are left to buying refined crude oil at higher prices from other countries.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:41:49 AM EDT
The, "It takes too long", crowd was wrong then & their ww=rong now.

"Earth First!" We'll drill the other planets later.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:42:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mjrowley:

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Maybe Bush lifting the offshore drilling ban finally popped the bubble.

I hope so...



It will never work, just ask Nancy.



And Osama Obama.

What's weird is gas prices actually went up 12 cents overnight last night, yet oil was down a few dollars from when it peaked when the Iranians fired ze missiles. I don't get it.

12 cents forwards, 2 cents back.

What we need is for the oil market to be spooked that the bottom is about to fall out, which will prompt everyone to want to sell their oil before taking a big hit on it, and thus furthering the drop in price.


I dont get it ours is going down...


We went up 10 cents overnight. I dont get it either. I just leave the economics to the economists.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:44:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HoodyHoo21:

Originally Posted By mjrowley:

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:
Maybe Bush lifting the offshore drilling ban finally popped the bubble.

I hope so...



It will never work, just ask Nancy.



And Osama Obama.

What's weird is gas prices actually went up 12 cents overnight last night, yet oil was down a few dollars from when it peaked when the Iranians fired ze missiles. I don't get it.

12 cents forwards, 2 cents back.

What we need is for the oil market to be spooked that the bottom is about to fall out, which will prompt everyone to want to sell their oil before taking a big hit on it, and thus furthering the drop in price.


I dont get it ours is going down...


We went up 10 cents overnight. I dont get it either. I just leave the economics to the economists.

not even those ppl know wtf is going on. you could sneeze and cause a rise or fall for no reason.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:47:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DV8:
Supply isn't now nor has it been the big problem. The major issue at hand is being able to process the crude. We don't have enough refineries to process the current supply fast enough. Envirowhaco's and tree huggers block any attempt at building new refineries. We are left to buying refined crude oil at higher prices from other countries.


AGNTSA.

Explain to me, in small words, how refining affects the price of crude.

"Refined crude??!??!@#!" What the fuck is that?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:50:56 AM EDT
Do you think that as soon as we get out butts in gear and start making our own, that the middle east will suddenly get a suplus of oil and flood the market with cheap oil? In order to make domestic production less appealing?

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:51:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ckyllo:
Do you think that as soon as we get out butts in gear and start making our own, that the middle east will suddenly get a suplus of oil and flood the market with cheap oil? In order to make domestic production less appealing?



happened in the early 80's.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:52:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 9:58:48 AM EDT by DV8]

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By DV8:
Supply isn't now nor has it been the big problem. The major issue at hand is being able to process the crude. We don't have enough refineries to process the current supply fast enough. Envirowhaco's and tree huggers block any attempt at building new refineries. We are left to buying refined crude oil at higher prices from other countries.


AGNTSA.

Explain to me, in small words, how refining affects the price of crude.

"Refined crude??!??!@#!" What the fuck is that?


Refining crude is the process of turning the black shit that gets pumped from the ground into the golden colored shit that gets pumped into your gas tank.

It doesn't necessarily effect the price of crude, but it does have a huge impact on the price we pay at the pump.

ETA: Even if we were to open ANWAR and the gulf of mexico to drilling tomorrow and lets say we were able to get an extra 10 million barrels of crude starting tomorrow, the price would still remain high at the pump because the demand for refined crude (gasoline) would still remain high.

Right now all of the refineries in the US are running at full capacity. Their ability to pump out gasoline is a fixed constant. All the supply in the world will not effect this constant because refineries can only refine so much per day. The only way to increase the supply of gasoline is to a) purchase refined crude from other sources at a premium (which we are doing) or b) build new refineries with which to refine more crude into gas.

Is that in simple enough terms for you?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:53:41 AM EDT
is that why gas whent UP today?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:55:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By ckyllo:
Do you think that as soon as we get out butts in gear and start making our own, that the middle east will suddenly get a suplus of oil and flood the market with cheap oil? In order to make domestic production less appealing?



happened in the early 80's.


Culminating in the market collapse of 1987, WATCH OUT.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:57:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 9:57:44 AM EDT by BuckeyeRifleman]
I was waiting for you to chime in Keith!

There was alot of bad news lately that might cause oil to jump, and it went DOWN big time today.

I think thats a sign. The legs of the camel are starting to shake...
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:58:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By luger355:
is that why gas whent UP today?

:sigh: thats is because of the price of crude a month ago..
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 9:59:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By luger355:
is that why gas whent UP today?

:sigh: thats is because of the price of crude a month ago..


So why is it that gas goes up instantly whenever the market spooks and oil rises?

They raise the price of gas immediately when oil goes up, and then again to cover "last month's increases"?

Yeah I don't think so.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:01:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By luger355:
is that why gas whent UP today?

:sigh: thats is because of the price of crude a month ago..


So why is it that gas goes up instantly whenever the market spooks and oil rises?

They raise the price of gas immediately when oil goes up, and then again to cover "last month's increases"?

Yeah I don't think so.


Because it's going to cost them more when it comes time to order again.

If you're willing to read a bit, your questions have rational answers.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:01:58 AM EDT
That happens here in Indiana

Oil goes up, THAT DAY gas prices raise.


Oil goes down $5-10 a barrel, takes WEEKS for the consumer to see the gas lower at the pump, they are fucking us.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:03:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By coltaceguy:
That happens here in Indiana

Oil goes up, THAT DAY gas prices raise.


Oil goes down $5-10 a barrel, takes WEEKS for the consumer to see the gas lower at the pump, they are fucking us.


There's a rational reason for that, if you're willing to listen. If you already have your mind made up I won't bother, though.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:03:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By luger355:
is that why gas whent UP today?

:sigh: thats is because of the price of crude a month ago..


So why is it that gas goes up instantly whenever the market spooks and oil rises?

They raise the price of gas immediately when oil goes up, and then again to cover "last month's increases"?

Yeah I don't think so.


Because it's going to cost them more when it comes time to order again.

If you're willing to read a bit, your questions have rational answers.


They already covered the cost by raising their price immediately.

Let's say oil goes up $11 in one day, like it did several weeks ago. Gas went up 20 or 30 cents in some places. It dropped back down to pre spike levels shortly after, yet gas remained up. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:04:42 AM EDT
Due to U.S. economy tanking.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:08:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By ckyllo:
Do you think that as soon as we get out butts in gear and start making our own, that the middle east will suddenly get a suplus of oil and flood the market with cheap oil? In order to make domestic production less appealing?



happened in the early 80's.


Culminating in the market collapse of 1987, WATCH OUT.


Do you see another October 1987 on the horizon....or even worse? I was 14 when that happened and remember it quite well.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:16:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By ckyllo:
Do you think that as soon as we get out butts in gear and start making our own, that the middle east will suddenly get a suplus of oil and flood the market with cheap oil? In order to make domestic production less appealing?



happened in the early 80's.


Culminating in the market collapse of 1987, WATCH OUT.


Do you see another October 1987 on the horizon....or even worse? I was 14 when that happened and remember it quite well.


Yes. So does T. Boone Pickens. Which is why he is going to natural gas and wind.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:17:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hkusp:
Due to U.S. economy tanking.


Makes no sense. When you couple the weakening dollar due to bank failures with the dropping crude price, you see the actual value of crude really take a beating.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:17:44 AM EDT
We can drill out in the middle of the ocean and not cause ANY environmental harm. Yet, if we goto the ANWAR, we are going to destroy everything? Fucking libtards.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:18:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By coltaceguy:
That happens here in Indiana

Oil goes up, THAT DAY gas prices raise.


Oil goes down $5-10 a barrel, takes WEEKS for the consumer to see the gas lower at the pump, they are fucking us.


There's a rational reason for that, if you're willing to listen. If you already have your mind made up I won't bother, though.


I don't know why you are still trying.

I gave up months ago.

I'll be damned if I'm typing out the reason gas prices rise so fast, yet are slow to fall ever again.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:19:56 AM EDT
Crude Oil
$138.18 ▼7.00 4.82%

Come on $130
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:22:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dr_Dickie:
Crude Oil
$138.18 ▼7.00 4.82%

Come on $130


The spot price is down $5+

Those evil speculators are taking a bath today.......
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:23:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2008 10:23:48 AM EDT by ArmyInfantryVet]

Originally Posted By Dr_Dickie:
Crude Oil
$138.18 ▼7.00 4.82%

Come on $130


LOL, I'm surprised stocks haven't fell apart over Fannie May and Freddy Mac.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:26:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DV8:
Refining crude is the process of turning the black shit that gets pumped from the ground into the golden colored shit that gets pumped into your gas tank.

It doesn't necessarily effect the price of crude, but it does have a huge impact on the price we pay at the pump.

ETA: Even if we were to open ANWAR and the gulf of mexico to drilling tomorrow and lets say we were able to get an extra 10 million barrels of crude starting tomorrow, the price would still remain high at the pump because the demand for refined crude (gasoline) would still remain high.

Right now all of the refineries in the US are running at full capacity. Their ability to pump out gasoline is a fixed constant. All the supply in the world will not effect this constant because refineries can only refine so much per day. The only way to increase the supply of gasoline is to a) purchase refined crude from other sources at a premium (which we are doing) or b) build new refineries with which to refine more crude into gas.

Is that in simple enough terms for you?

1. Actually, gasoline is clear.
2. There is process for export (removal of water, ng and knock outs), and there is refining. Two seperate things. We refine at home.
3. You are correct, it doesn't affect the price of crude. Well done! So $140 a barrel, at 42 gallons per barrel. thats about $3 a gallon for crude. Add in transportation costs, taxes (over 50 cents a gallon federal, not counting state) and profit, refining costs per gallon is about 20 cents per gallon. Remember that almost all cost break downs lump refining and profit together, so its hard to get an accurate number.
4. Right now, all refineries combined are running between 80-90% capacity (and falling constantly) due to flat/reduced demand and long lead projects coming on line.

We could handle, on the refining side, about 20% more demand, which won't happen because of the cost of CRUDE

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:27:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By patriot73:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By ckyllo:
Do you think that as soon as we get out butts in gear and start making our own, that the middle east will suddenly get a suplus of oil and flood the market with cheap oil? In order to make domestic production less appealing?



happened in the early 80's.


Culminating in the market collapse of 1987, WATCH OUT.


Do you see another October 1987 on the horizon....or even worse? I was 14 when that happened and remember it quite well.


Yes. So does T. Boone Pickens. Which is why he is going to natural gas and wind.


What's your guestimate on time Keith? Outside of commentary on spirit levels, I have come to accept you as one of the smartest guys around here. How bad do you think it might be? How far do you suspect it will travel outside of the oil market?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:27:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By Dr_Dickie:
Crude Oil
$138.18 ▼7.00 4.82%

Come on $130


The spot price is down $5+

Those evil speculators are taking a bath today.......


I enjoy watching them bathe. I hope they stay in the tub so long they get wrinkles
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:28:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By coltaceguy:
That happens here in Indiana

Oil goes up, THAT DAY gas prices raise.


Oil goes down $5-10 a barrel, takes WEEKS for the consumer to see the gas lower at the pump, they are fucking us.


They are fucking you? shit, call the cops, tell them you have a gas station holding you up. Obviously, someone is pointing a gun at your head and making you buy the gas.

Hmmmm, or maybe, stick with me here, your lacking the neurons to see the truth, and believe that those big ole evil oil companies are the ones holding the price up. Because they love doing nothing more than answering questions asked by fucking morons in congress.

TXL
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:28:34 AM EDT
Alternative fuels will take years too, but you don't hear the Democrats bitching about THOSE!
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:28:40 AM EDT
Really? A couple of gas stations just went from 4.059 to 4.109 today.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:30:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By coltaceguy:
That happens here in Indiana

Oil goes up, THAT DAY gas prices raise.


Oil goes down $5-10 a barrel, takes WEEKS for the consumer to see the gas lower at the pump, they are fucking us.


They are fucking you? shit, call the cops, tell them you have a gas station holding you up. Obviously, someone is pointing a gun at your head and making you buy the gas.

Hmmmm, or maybe, stick with me here, your lacking the neurons to see the truth, and believe that those big ole evil oil companies are the ones holding the price up. Because they love doing nothing more than answering questions asked by fucking morons in congress.

TXL


Lacking the neurons for proper grammar?
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:32:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DV8:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By DV8:
Supply isn't now nor has it been the big problem. The major issue at hand is being able to process the crude. We don't have enough refineries to process the current supply fast enough. Envirowhaco's and tree huggers block any attempt at building new refineries. We are left to buying refined crude oil at higher prices from other countries.


AGNTSA.

Explain to me, in small words, how refining affects the price of crude.

"Refined crude??!??!@#!" What the fuck is that?


Refining crude is the process of turning the black shit that gets pumped from the ground into the golden colored shit that gets pumped into your gas tank.

It doesn't necessarily effect the price of crude, but it does have a huge impact on the price we pay at the pump.

ETA: Even if we were to open ANWAR and the gulf of mexico to drilling tomorrow and lets say we were able to get an extra 10 million barrels of crude starting tomorrow, the price would still remain high at the pump because the demand for refined crude (gasoline) would still remain high.

Right now all of the refineries in the US are running at full capacity. Their ability to pump out gasoline is a fixed constant. All the supply in the world will not effect this constant because refineries can only refine so much per day. The only way to increase the supply of gasoline is to a) purchase refined crude from other sources at a premium (which we are doing) or b) build new refineries with which to refine more crude into gas.

Is that in simple enough terms for you?


God, that is no naive and silly.

Refineries have to base their prices on the cost of the raw material. In this case, OIL is expensive so their output will be marked up accordingly. If their input goes down in price, they will charge less.

If refining was the bottleneck, then WHY IS CRUDE SO EXPENSIVE? If refining was the bottleneck there would be a glut of crude, and there isn't.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:34:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By coltaceguy:
That happens here in Indiana

Oil goes up, THAT DAY gas prices raise.


Oil goes down $5-10 a barrel, takes WEEKS for the consumer to see the gas lower at the pump, they are fucking us.


They are fucking you? shit, call the cops, tell them you have a gas station holding you up. Obviously, someone is pointing a gun at your head and making you buy the gas.

Hmmmm, or maybe, stick with me here, your lacking the neurons to see the truth, and believe that those big ole evil oil companies are the ones holding the price up. Because they love doing nothing more than answering questions asked by fucking morons in congress.

TXL


Lacking the neurons for proper grammar?


No, he is just full of rage against morons.
Link Posted: 7/15/2008 10:34:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By DV8:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By DV8:
Supply isn't now nor has it been the big problem. The major issue at hand is being able to process the crude. We don't have enough refineries to process the current supply fast enough. Envirowhaco's and tree huggers block any attempt at building new refineries. We are left to buying refined crude oil at higher prices from other countries.


AGNTSA.

Explain to me, in small words, how refining affects the price of crude.

"Refined crude??!??!@#!" What the fuck is that?


Refining crude is the process of turning the black shit that gets pumped from the ground into the golden colored shit that gets pumped into your gas tank.

It doesn't necessarily effect the price of crude, but it does have a huge impact on the price we pay at the pump.

ETA: Even if we were to open ANWAR and the gulf of mexico to drilling tomorrow and lets say we were able to get an extra 10 million barrels of crude starting tomorrow, the price would still remain high at the pump because the demand for refined crude (gasoline) would still remain high.

Right now all of the refineries in the US are running at full capacity. Their ability to pump out gasoline is a fixed constant. All the supply in the world will not effect this constant because refineries can only refine so much per day. The only way to increase the supply of gasoline is to a) purchase refined crude from other sources at a premium (which we are doing) or b) build new refineries with which to refine more crude into gas.

Is that in simple enough terms for you?


God, that is no naive and silly.

Refineries have to base their prices on the cost of the raw material. In this case, OIL is expensive so their output will be marked up accordingly. If their input goes down in price, they will charge less.

If refining was the bottleneck, then WHY IS CRUDE SO EXPENSIVE? If refining was the bottleneck there would be a glut of crude, and there isn't.


Little kids learn this at like 9 when the lemons get more expensive at the grocery store, they need to raise the price at the lemonade stand.
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