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Posted: 7/6/2023 1:56:35 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:01:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Nice shock wave in this one.
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:07:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GBTX01: Hopefully the answer is UKR forces are fixing RU forces and also attriting RU forces who keep trying to attack thru the bottle neck Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GBTX01: Originally Posted By Cypher15: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Hopefully the answer is UKR forces are fixing RU forces and also attriting RU forces who keep trying to attack thru the bottle neck |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:08:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: At this point I do have to question what the UKR is doing there. Its very odd. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Pissing off some Russians it looks like. That, reportedly, company-sized element has a couple brigades tied down. The river doesn't appear to be the obstacle the Russians thought it would be. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:14:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lorazepam]
[#5]
Lol, this is funny.
https://twitter.com/TreasChest/status/1677008998636322816 |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:34:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Would be fun to donate a couple f117 to just have be seen, and fly around ukrainian airspace occasionally. Make the Russian SAM operators really nervous and start shooting at birds.
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:34:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Absolutely. Most (98%) are to discuss, share views honestly, and learn. 2% are not. You don’t have to be a regular poster to come here for news, knowledge, and perspective. I watch a lot of news on the subject, the more in-depth stuff rather than the soundbite stuff. It speaks to the value of this thread that the news (again, serious news) can tell me very little that I haven’t already gotten here, earlier and in greater depth. A very few commentators like Ben Hodges or Ukraine the Latest bring the goods almost every time, but the rest is just recap. So a personal thank you to all the contributors. There is plenty of disagreement. Boiling the frog - I’ll be the first to admit there is a lot evidence it’s due to inertia, fear, incompetence, or compromise at the top of the US admin. I also think other evidence, right up to today, is consistent with an intent to permanently end the Russian threat to Europe by playing the situation to maximize their manpower and material losses. We will probably never know which of those is closer to the truth. Hungary and Orban. - There are some passionate defenders whom I understand and accept the truth of some of their positions. But I don’t agree that these reasons (which are valid reasons) explain Orban’s actions. Efforts will continue to troll, derail, lie, shitpost, and so on, whether they’re foreign agents or domestic quislings. But lies are losing and knowledge is winning. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By Auto5guy: Originally Posted By Capta: I basically agree with you. Exactly what the situation is and why, is unknown at our level. I still think we're boiling the frog, others disagree. The quoted in blue and red portions are exactly why I think drive by posters like Juan and Daemon and others deserve ever clump of shit that gets thrown their way. #1, None of us are on the inside with all the information so we are all speculating with incomplete information. So among the regular thread posters and followers there is no attitude of "I have all the facts and you don't". What I've noticed about the drive by jerks is they have ZERO humility. Their position is the ONLY one that could be correct and they either pretend they have access to information we don't or just claim any information we might be considering is invalid. #2, There is a TON of disagreement in this thread daily. The boiling the frog concept is an excellent example. There are some regulars in here who vehemently disagree with that assessment. The thread has never derailed over that disagreement because the regulars have a level of respect for each other. Respectful people can agree to disagree. Disrespectful assholes have to throw insults like "circle jerk" and "echo chamber" when confronted with others who disagree with them. It's a classic troll retort and even giving them the benefit of the doubt that they aren't being trolls, it shows a low IQ level of being able to read a room because it's plainly obvious that it's untrue. Absolutely. Most (98%) are to discuss, share views honestly, and learn. 2% are not. You don’t have to be a regular poster to come here for news, knowledge, and perspective. I watch a lot of news on the subject, the more in-depth stuff rather than the soundbite stuff. It speaks to the value of this thread that the news (again, serious news) can tell me very little that I haven’t already gotten here, earlier and in greater depth. A very few commentators like Ben Hodges or Ukraine the Latest bring the goods almost every time, but the rest is just recap. So a personal thank you to all the contributors. There is plenty of disagreement. Boiling the frog - I’ll be the first to admit there is a lot evidence it’s due to inertia, fear, incompetence, or compromise at the top of the US admin. I also think other evidence, right up to today, is consistent with an intent to permanently end the Russian threat to Europe by playing the situation to maximize their manpower and material losses. We will probably never know which of those is closer to the truth. Hungary and Orban. - There are some passionate defenders whom I understand and accept the truth of some of their positions. But I don’t agree that these reasons (which are valid reasons) explain Orban’s actions. Efforts will continue to troll, derail, lie, shitpost, and so on, whether they’re foreign agents or domestic quislings. But lies are losing and knowledge is winning. All good points above, but "domestic quislings" is too strong a word IMO. We have people who are probably quite knowledgeable about a subject, and do make some "drive by" posts, but being strident and a little unpleasant doesn't make for a quisling. It might make someone a jerk sometimes, but not a quisling. By my totally unscientific count, we only have one of those actually, and he's got 4 "rated Troll" threads last I checked (nb; I don't really care).  I'd say ARF has a pretty good "signal to noise" ratio, all things considered.  meanwhile  (s)
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:36:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By yekimak: They remind me of the sort of people that cut you off, slam on their brakes, then give you a princess wave from the window of their Nissan versa. 
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:37:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: The stupidity of this comment is highlighted by the recent aborted coup attempt whereby a rogue organization got within 100km of Moscow and *voluntarily* chose not to proceed further. It had the effect of pointing out how completely hollow the internal defenses are within Russia itself. So, if the Ukrainians chose to do so, they could break thru and make a thunder run to Moscow in the same fashion, particularly if they were masquerading as Russian units (which would be pretty easy since they speak Russian and are using Russian gear). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By Boedy: Fact that we are talking about a Ukrainian offensive while watching the Russians on their back foot scrambling to avoid a full on rout says the offensive has been going well for some time. In that case the domes of the Kremlin will be in sight of the Ukranian vanguard units any day now! Glory to Ukraine! The stupidity of this comment is highlighted by the recent aborted coup attempt whereby a rogue organization got within 100km of Moscow and *voluntarily* chose not to proceed further. It had the effect of pointing out how completely hollow the internal defenses are within Russia itself. So, if the Ukrainians chose to do so, they could break thru and make a thunder run to Moscow in the same fashion, particularly if they were masquerading as Russian units (which would be pretty easy since they speak Russian and are using Russian gear). If it is indeed that easy then I suggest they do so. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:40:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Lol, this is funny. https://twitter.com/TreasChest/status/1677008998636322816  They make great refugees 😂 |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:40:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GBTX01: Hopefully the answer is UKR forces are fixing RU forces and also attriting RU forces who keep trying to attack thru the bottle neck Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GBTX01: Originally Posted By Cypher15: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Hopefully the answer is UKR forces are fixing RU forces and also attriting RU forces who keep trying to attack thru the bottle neck This is my belief as well, they keep setting up multiple areas along the front daily where Russian forces are forced to react, and spread themselves thin in the process. Eventually there could be a sudden push from an area that Russian forces may not be in place to quickly react or contain it. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:44:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Too bad! No more convict meat bags. I notice the VDV south of Bakhmut are not anxious to charge blindly forward dialing up lead.
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:49:41 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:51:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: You are probably right. Certainly about the top line. But sometimes just handing over your wallet doesn't save you from the mugger's gun. I'm not asking Ukraine to roll over and play dead, I'm merely pointing out that the endgame expectations of many here are unlikely to be fullfilled. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:51:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#15]
5 min ago.
https://twitter.com/PStyle0ne1/status/1677021430565724191 Left bank Kherson‼️ Ukrainians continue to harass Russian positions with success. Today, a Russian channel claimed that Ukraine would cross in 5 different places in the near future. Obviously, the constant harassment of Russian troops forces the Russians to keep more forces on alert than otherwise and prevent Russia from relocating some of the troops on the Zaporizhzhia front.  |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:52:08 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 7/6/2023 2:59:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: I have zero ties to Russia or Ukraine. This conflict, and continuing full support for Ukraine, will be a part on who I vote for in the next election cycle. I support admitting Ukraine to NATO ASAP, telling Russia to back the fuck down immediately and invoking Article 5 if Russia doesn’t initiate an immediate retreat and full ceasefire. I’m absolutely willing to burn it all down to stop Russia. Clear enough for you? Yup, clear as a bell. You're willing to burn down the world and everyone in it over Ukraine. Crystal clear. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:00:40 PM EDT
[#18]
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USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:03:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Well...I suspect that if given a choice, as much as they feel their cause is a just one, the world as a whole, would much rather see Ukraine cease to exist as a nation rather than end up in a "full nuke war" That is indeed the bitter truth But as I have been saying for quite some time, barring complete insanity on Russia's part that results in nuke use, or amazing luck on Ukraine's that results in complete restoration of lost territory, Ukraine will survie this, it'll just be a bit smaller in the end. The same logic applies to Russia. Russia would prefer a full withdrawal from the entire territory of Ukraine, and even some it's prewar territory, over a nuclear war that results in annihilation. I don't buy the "crazy Ivan" line that the nuclear threat is one sided. As Trump said to NK, we also have a nuclear button and ours actually works. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:04:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Disagree completely. A "full nuke war" would see Russia disappear from the map. The world as a whole would rejoice. Ukraine will regain their territory, including Crimea. The only real questions are what happens *after* they do that. Do they stop shooting and hope the Russians do the same? If the Russians want to continue to lob cruise missiles into apartment buildings even after they've been pushed out, then what? Will the Russians sue for peace once they've been booted? If so, what does that look like? We (and the Ukrainians) know Russia cannot be trusted to abide by treaties they sign. So, how does Ukraine (and the west more generally) guarantee Russia will stay in their own sand, er, litterbox? I'm sorry, are you saying a "full nuke war" would be one sided with only Russia on the receiving end of nuclear weapon strikes?  |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:06:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Yup, clear as a bell. You're willing to burn down the world and everyone in it over Ukraine. Crystal clear. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By AeroEngineer: I have zero ties to Russia or Ukraine. This conflict, and continuing full support for Ukraine, will be a part on who I vote for in the next election cycle. I support admitting Ukraine to NATO ASAP, telling Russia to back the fuck down immediately and invoking Article 5 if Russia doesn’t initiate an immediate retreat and full ceasefire. I’m absolutely willing to burn it all down to stop Russia. Clear enough for you? Yup, clear as a bell. You're willing to burn down the world and everyone in it over Ukraine. Crystal clear. No, incorrect. If any country says “we’re doing this and if you don’t like it we’ll nuke you”, it is every nation’s duty to make sure that cancer is put down, immediately. It has nothing to do with Ukraine. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:08:43 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:08:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: I'm not asking Ukraine to roll over and play dead, I'm merely pointing out that the endgame expectations of many here are unlikely to be fullfilled. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: You are probably right. Certainly about the top line. But sometimes just handing over your wallet doesn't save you from the mugger's gun. I'm not asking Ukraine to roll over and play dead, I'm merely pointing out that the endgame expectations of many here are unlikely to be fullfilled. All pointless. Seems Ukraine is more than willing to kill Russians with other peoples guns and equipment. As long as they are killing Russians they shouldn’t be left out to dry. Give them what they want short of nukes and let them keep killing Russians as long as they are willing. Their choice. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:09:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_1931-2875890.jpg
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:13:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
They get training for them as well. Good for them. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:14:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: It’s obvious these occasional drive bys never read any of the thread. Things like cluster munitions, incendiary shells in urban fights, 497 days of threatening nukes, have all Ben. Discussed in detail many times. They pop in to make some well worn out claim and insult the regular posters who are gathering information and discussing. They have no interest in being informed. They just want to push their OPINION on to others and act all righteous and victimized when called on it. I have zero sympathy for someone that drops in to insult and make sweeping assumptions when they clearly have not read even the last 24 hrs of posts let alone the last several days. 4400 pages is a bit of a stretch to keep up with regardless of how many times cluster bomb use mentions are seeded amongst them. But one thing is for certain, it is you that put the "unconditional surrender" wishcasting on the map for me, much like the pollyannish poster above that seems to think a nuclear exchange would be a one way affair...  |
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USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:22:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: They get training for them as well. Good for them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: Originally Posted By HIPPO:
They get training for them as well. Good for them. Fact that Romania is stepping up to the plate unlike my home country has taken me by surprise ... Bravo Romanians! |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:22:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#28]
At least one casualty who should be getting evacuated who is instead still in it.
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:25:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Zelensky is in Bulgaria today, Czechia tomorrow, and then on to Turkey. "Would you say: Putin, seize our territory?" Zelensky argued with the President of Bulgaria Bulgarian President Rumen Radev said there is no military solution to the war in Ukraine and that more weapons will not solve the problem. To which the President of Ukraine replied that his Bulgarian counterpart would not compromise if he were in his place. "Would you say: Putin, please take over the territory of Bulgaria? No, you, as a real president, I'm sure you would not compromise your independence. It's your right not to support aid to Ukraine. But I would really like you to understood correctly," Politico quotes him. Zelensky added that military assistance to Kyiv is a better option than allowing "war to come to you." After that, the President of Bulgaria asked to continue the meeting without cameras, saying that he "has a proposal." |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:26:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0Wvu7qWwAUSwbj?format=jpg&name=large
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/203719/IMG_3353-2875899.jpg Looks like the damn russians starve the Ukranian serviceman they have taken prisoner, I understand the shaved heads but they are all so thin and haggard looking, the Russians who are taken captive probably never want to go back as they are treated so well. F-russia |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:28:51 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:29:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Once again thread has been hijacked.
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:29:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: 4400 pages is a bit of a stretch to keep up with regardless of how many times cluster bomb use mentions are seeded amongst them. But one thing is for certain, it is you that put the "unconditional surrender" wishcasting on the map for me, much like the pollyannish poster above that seems to think a nuclear exchange would be a one way affair... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By RockNwood: It’s obvious these occasional drive bys never read any of the thread. Things like cluster munitions, incendiary shells in urban fights, 497 days of threatening nukes, have all Ben. Discussed in detail many times. They pop in to make some well worn out claim and insult the regular posters who are gathering information and discussing. They have no interest in being informed. They just want to push their OPINION on to others and act all righteous and victimized when called on it. I have zero sympathy for someone that drops in to insult and make sweeping assumptions when they clearly have not read even the last 24 hrs of posts let alone the last several days. 4400 pages is a bit of a stretch to keep up with regardless of how many times cluster bomb use mentions are seeded amongst them. But one thing is for certain, it is you that put the "unconditional surrender" wishcasting on the map for me, much like the pollyannish poster above that seems to think a nuclear exchange would be a one way affair... This thread isn't for arguing about other people's opinions of the war.. take that out in the other GD threads and stop pissing all over this one with what you think others should believe |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:30:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 7empest: Once again thread has been hijacked. Yep I'm sick of it. This thread is for war updates |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:33:23 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:35:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Yup, clear as a bell. You're willing to burn down the world and everyone in it over Ukraine. Crystal clear. Right. 
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:35:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ERNURSE: Looks like the damn russians starve the Ukranian serviceman they have taken prisoner, I understand the shaved heads but they are all so thin and haggard looking, the Russians who are taken captive probably never want to go back as they are treated so well. F-russia Check the wrists.  Source video for the doubters |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:36:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Putin scared of religion. It's truly powerful. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:39:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voyager3: Tumen? Yakutia? Chukotka? Urals? Altai? About as much chance as Native American reservations located on the oil fields. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voyager3: Originally Posted By planemaker: The oil/resource rich areas would be the *most* likely areas to do well on their own without the yoke of the Kremlin kleptocracy. In my mind, the only real wild card is whether ChinaIsAsshoe would invade from the east and take some of those oil/resource rich areas for themselves. Tumen? Yakutia? Chukotka? Urals? Altai? About as much chance as Native American reservations located on the oil fields. Money has a way of making a lot of problems go away. Especially when there is a lot of it that's unencumbered by theft and graft. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:41:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: All pointless. Seems Ukraine is more than willing to kill Russians with other peoples guns and equipment. As long as they are killing Russians they shouldn’t be left out to dry. Give them what they want short of nukes and let them keep killing Russians as long as they are willing. Their choice. They most certainly seem to be doing fine with what they've been given, the question is can they keep it up long enough to prevail? What's the realistic non currently uniformed manpower of Ukraine that they can get trained up and in uniform in order to replace casualties? Is there currently a massive waiting list of able bodied Ukrainian MAM's that are itching to get signed up and in the fight? Is Ukraine's daily use of western material and munitions outpacing supply? What's the current international (Ukraine's western benefactors) political thought on this conflict? Are some wanting this wrapped up sooner rather than later? Bottom line is the clock is ticking and if the political winds shift and even a handful of Ukraine's western benefactors decide to press them to reach a settled result then that's what they'll be forced to do... |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:42:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By yekimak:
The 6 AK mini gun being fired.... Looks fun. https://t.me/karymat/2879[/quo te]Needs a far better mount |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:42:49 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Yup, clear as a bell. You're willing to burn down the world and everyone in it over Ukraine. Crystal clear. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By AeroEngineer: I have zero ties to Russia or Ukraine. This conflict, and continuing full support for Ukraine, will be a part on who I vote for in the next election cycle. I support admitting Ukraine to NATO ASAP, telling Russia to back the fuck down immediately and invoking Article 5 if Russia doesn't initiate an immediate retreat and full ceasefire. I'm absolutely willing to burn it all down to stop Russia. Clear enough for you? Yup, clear as a bell. You're willing to burn down the world and everyone in it over Ukraine. Crystal clear. so, would you do it if Poland Fell? Lativa? Lithuania? How about if Central Europe fell? Russia/CCCP has to be stopped. It has been fucking everyone over forever. Under the CCCP flag or the RF flag. So yes, I am willing. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:43:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ERNURSE: Looks like the damn russians starve the Ukranian serviceman they have taken prisoner, I understand the shaved heads but they are all so thin and haggard looking, the Russians who are taken captive probably never want to go back as they are treated so well. F-russia It's apparent that Russia gives zero fucks about their own troops let alone anyone elses |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:44:15 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_1931-2875890.jpg Bullshit. UK is selling them to Saudi Arabia, Germany has to approve the deal too, because there are German made parts in these planes. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:44:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: If it is indeed that easy then I suggest they do so. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By Boedy: Fact that we are talking about a Ukrainian offensive while watching the Russians on their back foot scrambling to avoid a full on rout says the offensive has been going well for some time. In that case the domes of the Kremlin will be in sight of the Ukranian vanguard units any day now! Glory to Ukraine! The stupidity of this comment is highlighted by the recent aborted coup attempt whereby a rogue organization got within 100km of Moscow and *voluntarily* chose not to proceed further. It had the effect of pointing out how completely hollow the internal defenses are within Russia itself. So, if the Ukrainians chose to do so, they could break thru and make a thunder run to Moscow in the same fashion, particularly if they were masquerading as Russian units (which would be pretty easy since they speak Russian and are using Russian gear). If it is indeed that easy then I suggest they do so. Well, the goofball with the wigs seemed to demonstrate it to be so. One has to wonder if that was part of his plan - to demonstrate to the Kremlin how the war in Ukraine has hollowed out their defense forces. (I could be wrong but I doubt that was his motive.) |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:48:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: I'm sorry, are you saying a "full nuke war" would be one sided with only Russia on the receiving end of nuclear weapon strikes? https://media.giphy.com/media/1009wQ2WcsEmBO/giphy.gif Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By planemaker: Disagree completely. A "full nuke war" would see Russia disappear from the map. The world as a whole would rejoice. Ukraine will regain their territory, including Crimea. The only real questions are what happens *after* they do that. Do they stop shooting and hope the Russians do the same? If the Russians want to continue to lob cruise missiles into apartment buildings even after they've been pushed out, then what? Will the Russians sue for peace once they've been booted? If so, what does that look like? We (and the Ukrainians) know Russia cannot be trusted to abide by treaties they sign. So, how does Ukraine (and the west more generally) guarantee Russia will stay in their own sand, er, litterbox? I'm sorry, are you saying a "full nuke war" would be one sided with only Russia on the receiving end of nuclear weapon strikes? https://media.giphy.com/media/1009wQ2WcsEmBO/giphy.gif No, I'm saying a "full nuke war" would be lopsided overwhelmingly in favor of the west. Further, the rest of the world would rejoice as the Russian menace was put down. I noticed you didn't actually answer any of my questions. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:49:23 PM EDT
[#47]
Geopolitical subjectivism is a new term that was born to me as a result of painstaking observation of world politics: it is nothing more than giving state weight to personal whims, whims and superstitions. Its influence can be traced in all international processes, and especially in the NATO discussions regarding Ukraine. Take a look for yourself.
🫵🏼 Biden blocked the appointment of Wallace as NATO Secretary General over the F-16 for Ukraine. It seems that the American president took offense at the British. This is far from an isolated case. 👉🏼 The White House was irritated by London's excessively pro-Ukrainian position. The British Prime Minister led a "coalition of fighters" and gathered like-minded people ready to provide Ukraine with F16, and also promised to train our pilots. Because it was done without Washington's consent, Washington blocked the appointment of British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace as NATO Secretary General (The Telegraph). 👉🏼 And the USA also says that the NATO doors for Ukraine are open to the maximum, that they are flying off the doors, but we will not be able to get through them to the Alliance at the moment... only after "Ukraine carries out reforms and meets all the requirements of the Alliance." Even the members of this beautiful organization do not meet all the requirements of NATO, and the trap of "100% compliance" was invented by grandmother Merkel during her political shenanigans with Putin. A significant part of the former NATO entrants had a much lower level of readiness than in Ukraine today, among them there were candidates from the occupied territories. 👉🏼 And Biden also said that the Armed Forces do not need Abrams, F16, and now somehow does not share ATACMS and other progressive devices. Why? Because "Kyiv does not need it." 👉🏼 Why the White House, helping Ukraine with tens of billions of dollars, often organizes anti-Ukrainian demarches. There may be a logic in such acts and actions of the USA, but its own, American one, sharpened to their interests. Biden may have some of his obligations to China, may be angry with Kyiv for some reason, and may have his own vision for the pace of Ukraine's Liberation from the Orcs. If you put all the puzzles together, you will get a picture that is obvious for American realities. But she is unknown to us. This does not mean at all that we should agree with this subjectivism if it does not meet our expectations. 🫵🏼 So what is the real deal with NATO? The summit is less than a week away! 👉🏼 There are different predictions here. The President of Lithuania, Gitanas Nauseda, is optimistic: in his opinion, at the NATO summit in Vilnius, it will be possible to agree on such commitments to Ukraine that will not disappoint it: some NATO countries will come to Vilnius with commitments to provide security guarantees to Ukraine, and there are already agreement on the creation of the Ukraine-NATO Council to strengthen Kyiv's integration into the Alliance. Obviously, we are talking about the personal guarantees of our closest friends. 👉🏼 Budanov, on the contrary, gushes with pessimism: he says that he looked at the tables of the leaders of some countries, saw the drafts of some speeches, and is convinced that the upcoming summit will not meet the expectations of Ukrainian society. 👉🏼 46 authoritative Western experts, military and diplomats (that is, all those who think in terms of common sense, not political expediency) signed a letter with a call to provide Ukraine with a road map to NATO membership as soon as possible. The terms and specifics should foresee the entry of our state already next year at the summit in Washington. The subjectivism of geopolitics is a variable that does not always work against us. For example, even last year, Kyiv begged for air defense, we didn't even dream about Patriot, tanks, let alone F-16... and we just got HIMARS, which essentially changed the course of the war in the summer. But every "no" eventually turned into a "yes". Therefore: if common sense does not manage to push political expediency at the Vilnius turn of the geopolitical spiral, then it will definitely do it at the Washington stage. The entire logic of relations with our Western partners points to this. https://t.me/orestokratiia/817 |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:51:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: 4400 pages is a bit of a stretch to keep up with regardless of how many times cluster bomb use mentions are seeded amongst them. But one thing is for certain, it is you that put the "unconditional surrender" wishcasting on the map for me, much like the pollyannish poster above that seems to think a nuclear exchange would be a one way affair... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By RockNwood: It’s obvious these occasional drive bys never read any of the thread. Things like cluster munitions, incendiary shells in urban fights, 497 days of threatening nukes, have all Ben. Discussed in detail many times. They pop in to make some well worn out claim and insult the regular posters who are gathering information and discussing. They have no interest in being informed. They just want to push their OPINION on to others and act all righteous and victimized when called on it. I have zero sympathy for someone that drops in to insult and make sweeping assumptions when they clearly have not read even the last 24 hrs of posts let alone the last several days. 4400 pages is a bit of a stretch to keep up with regardless of how many times cluster bomb use mentions are seeded amongst them. But one thing is for certain, it is you that put the "unconditional surrender" wishcasting on the map for me, much like the pollyannish poster above that seems to think a nuclear exchange would be a one way affair... Arm waving nonsense. The Russians will be forced to surrender. It will not be otherwise. It is only the terms of that surrender that are somewhat in question. But, militarily, they will be defeated. As to whether that is concurrent with an economic collapse or because of an economic collapse, that is hard to say. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:52:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: juan223]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CB1: I am... so, would you do it if Poland Fell? Lativa? Lithuania? How about if Central Europe fell? Russia/CCCP has to be stopped. It has been fucking everyone over forever. Under the CCCP flag or the RF flag. So yes, I am willing. It's readily apparent that Russia is having a very difficult time effectively projecting conventional force on their immediate next door neighbor. Therefore I seriously doubt that conventional Russian forces steamrolling over Poland is even a possibility in our liftetime. Shit... Even if Russia teamed up with Germany again to hit Poland, Poland would end up repelling them both. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:57:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: No, I'm saying a "full nuke war" would be lopsided overwhelmingly in favor of the west. Further, the rest of the world would rejoice as the Russian menace was put down. I noticed you didn't actually answer any of my questions. What exactly makes it "lopsided overwhelmingly in favor of the west"? What do you think much of the world would look like after such an event? You said Ukraine would subsequently regain the Crimea, if Russia was nuked into oblivion it's quite possible you would not want to be anywhere near Russia and that includes a good chunk of Ukraine. |
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