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Posted: 7/6/2023 3:58:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Arm waving nonsense. The Russians will be forced to surrender. It will not be otherwise. It is only the terms of that surrender that are somewhat in question. But, militarily, they will be defeated. As to whether that is concurrent with an economic collapse or because of an economic collapse, that is hard to say. Well, while that would indeed be a lovely outcome we're just gonna have to wait and see. 
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:08:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RockNwood: Mr SecDef, WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION, NUMBNUTS?! DIDN'T MOMMY AND DADDY SHOW YOU ENOUGH ATTENTION WHEN YOU WERE A CHILD?!
The only thing I could guess is it’s being used as leverage against Russia creating a nuclear disaster at ZNPP. The threat of NATO nations intervening directly greatly increases the chance of a nuclear exchange. Telling Russia if you do this we are going to give them all the ATACMS and tomahawks they ask for and no limits on strikes. At this point it’s cold to say but I think as long as nothing in the supply chain changes Ukraine is going to bleed the Russians until they can’t hold. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:11:02 PM EDT
[#4]
The Ministry of Finance spent 807 billion from the National Welfare Fund in six months
For six months, the Ministry of Finance spent 807 billion rubles. from the National Wealth Fund to cover the budget deficit, infrastructure projects and support for companies. The budget for 2023 has been drawn up with a deficit of 2.9 trillion rubles, which will be paid from the NWF. But now the deficit has reached 3.4 trillion rubles, experts predict its further growth. The NWF, which in previous years had been built up from oil and gas windfalls, was originally designed to support the pension system. But last year it became one of the main sources of covering the budget deficit, after Moscow launched a war with Ukraine, and the West responded with massive sanctions. Last year, the Ministry of Finance spent almost 3 trillion rubles from the NWF to pay for a hole in the treasury and about 1 trillion rubles to save individual companies. https://t.me/moscowtimes_ru/14114 Export of Russian gas to Europe collapsed to a minimum in almost 50 years The "gas bridge" Russia-Europe, built during the time of Leonid Brezhnev and for more than half a century supplying the Kremlin with energy windfalls, has finally been consigned to the dustbin of history. According to the results of the first half of 2023, Gazprom pumped only 12.1 billion cubic meters of gas to European countries, Reuters reports citing its own calculations. Compared to last year's volumes, which were the lowest since the last years of the USSR, the volumes of deliveries to the once largest market of Gazprom have collapsed by almost three times. The "gas bridge" Russia-Europe, built during the time of Leonid Brezhnev and for more than half a century supplying the Kremlin with energy windfalls, has finally been consigned to the dustbin of history. According to the results of the first half of 2023, Gazprom pumped only 12.1 billion cubic meters of gas to European countries, Reuters reports, citing its own calculations. Compared to last year's volumes, the lowest since the last years of the USSR, the volumes of deliveries to the once largest market of Gazprom have almost tripled. https://t.me/moscowtimes_ru/14116 |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:11:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Ignore button works well but only if people stop quoting the
 s in their posts
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USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:11:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Is Ukraine's daily use of western material and munitions outpacing supply? What's the current international (Ukraine's western benefactors) political thought on this conflict? Are some wanting this wrapped up sooner rather than later? Bottom line is the clock is ticking and if the political winds shift and even a handful of Ukraine's western benefactors decide to press them to reach a settled result then that's what they'll be forced to do... Door #1. UK, the United States, Finland,Poland, France, Canada, Germany, Japan, Latvia, Italy, Norway, Sweden, Turkey, South Korea, Estonia, etc. Door #2. Russia. Belarus. Iran. North Korea. Could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure both the economic and military output of Door #1 significantly outpaces Door #2. Ukraine would have to do something catastrophic before enough of those sources dried up to make a difference. Cut the BS. Nobody is buying it. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:12:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: They most certainly seem to be doing fine with what they've been given, the question is can they keep it up long enough to prevail? What's the realistic non currently uniformed manpower of Ukraine that they can get trained up and in uniform in order to replace casualties? Is there currently a massive waiting list of able bodied Ukrainian MAM's that are itching to get signed up and in the fight? Is Ukraine's daily use of western material and munitions outpacing supply? What's the current international (Ukraine's western benefactors) political thought on this conflict? Are some wanting this wrapped up sooner rather than later? Bottom line is the clock is ticking and if the political winds shift and even a handful of Ukraine's western benefactors decide to press them to reach a settled result then that's what they'll be forced to do... Both Russia and Ukraine have a nearly limitless supply of potential soldiers relative to the equipment and weapons systems. This will come down to attrition of equipment, not attrition of people. It'll be won by the side that thins out the artillery and air defense of the other side enough to achieve major breakthroughs. That in turn will come down to what China does. Russia alone can't compete with the combined capacity of the West to supply material, but China could easily do it So far China is sitting this out, but that's the real wildcard here |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:13:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: At this point I do have to question what the UKR is doing there. Its very odd. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Could be another fixing operation that could turn into a major axis. Russia can’t let them expand their bridgehead and will probably have to commit (and lose) disproportionate forces to contain it. If they don’t, they open up a new front with a straight shot to Crimea. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:19:09 PM EDT
[#9]
(Vid is 9 days old but these guys seem to love their Mk19.)
Warfare near Bakhmut: border guards decimate russian infantry (ENG SUB)  ??? ?? ???????????? ????????: ????????????? ?????? ????????? ?????? (ENG, GER, PL SUB) |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:20:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: Both Russia and Ukraine have a nearly limitless supply of potential soldiers relative to the equipment and weapons systems. This will come down to attrition of equipment, not attrition of people. It'll be won by the side that thins out the artillery and air defense of the other side enough to achieve major breakthroughs. That in turn will come down to what China does. Russia alone can't compete with the combined capacity of the West to supply material, but China could easily do it So far China is sitting this out, but that's the real wildcard here If China decides to eventually supply Russia they'll be able to directly bleed Russia of treasure and indirectly of men while simultaneously bleeding the west of treasure... The potential pitfall for China would be a (hopefully) reinvigorated and expanded western arms production infrastructure that they'd eventully have to face. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:22:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: What exactly makes it "lopsided overwhelmingly in favor of the west"? What do you think much of the world would look like after such an event? You said Ukraine would subsequently regain the Crimea, if Russia was nuked into oblivion it's quite possible you would not want to be anywhere near Russia and that includes a good chunk of Ukraine. The reality is that Russia would also rather completely exit Crimea and Donbas than participate in a nuclear war, so the nuclear talk is a sideshow. Regardless of who would win a nuclear war, and what "winning" would actually look like, Crimea and Donbas aren't worth that to any of the combatants. While the stakes involved make everyone pretty cautious the reality is that a conventional attack by NATO forces on Russians forces in Ukrainian territory would probably not lead to nuclear war since the whole territory isn't worth that much to Russia either. A full invasion of the Russian heartland that puts its survival as a nation at risk is about the only scenario where Russia would rationally use nuclear weapons - not over a "sphere of influence", not over a border dispute and probably not even over a peripheral Oblast. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:24:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: trapsh00ter99]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlackHoleSon: Jesus....he looks like Jen Psaki Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BlackHoleSon: Originally Posted By SoCalExile: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177432/F0TPBuOX0AAN8sr_png-2875759.JPG Jesus....he looks like Jen Psaki I gotcha   |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:26:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: (Vid is 9 days old but these guys seem to love their Mk19.) I can't blame them, they're a hoot to shoot. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:30:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By Dracster:
(Vid is 9 days old but these guys seem to love their Mk19.) Warfare near Bakhmut: border guards decimate russian infantry (ENG SUB)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF29zDyo4O8[/quo te]Is it me or do mk19s work better in Europe? |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:31:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PolarBear416: The reality is that Russia would also rather completely exit Crimea and Donbas than participate in a nuclear war, so the nuclear talk is a sideshow. Regardless of who would win a nuclear war, and what "winning" would actually look like, Crimea and Donbas aren't worth that to any of the combatants. While the stakes involved make everyone pretty cautious the reality is that a conventional attack by NATO forces on Russians forces in Ukrainian territory would probably not lead to nuclear war since the whole territory isn't worth that much to Russia either. A full invasion of the Russian heartland that puts its survival as a nation at risk is about the only scenario where Russia would rationally use nuclear weapons - not over a "sphere of influence", not over a border dispute and probably not even over a peripheral Oblast. I don't recall EVER being of the opinion that an actual nuclear war is on the table with regards to Crimea or the other occupied areas, IT IS THE rhetoric you can find here saying nothing less than the complete destruction of the Russian military and some even say Russia itself as the only acceptable endgame here. It's buffoonery. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:31:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: @ BlackHoleSon I gotcha https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/Prigsaki-2875993.png Oddly enough doesn't look out of place with that crowd |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:37:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Yup, clear as a bell. You're willing to burn down the world and everyone in it over Ukraine. Crystal clear. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By AeroEngineer: I have zero ties to Russia or Ukraine. This conflict, and continuing full support for Ukraine, will be a part on who I vote for in the next election cycle. I support admitting Ukraine to NATO ASAP, telling Russia to back the fuck down immediately and invoking Article 5 if Russia doesn’t initiate an immediate retreat and full ceasefire. I’m absolutely willing to burn it all down to stop Russia. Clear enough for you? Yup, clear as a bell. You're willing to burn down the world and everyone in it over Ukraine. Crystal clear. Have you been paying attention to Russia's stated goals? They intend to take over at least 6 NATO countries. I think it is better to fight that idea in Ukraine where we can arm them at our leisure and let them do the fighting, rather that let Russia invade a NATO country where article 5 kicks in. This is simple math. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:39:35 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:41:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Geopolitical subjectivism is a new term that was born to me as a result of painstaking observation of world politics: it is nothing more than giving state weight to personal whims, whims and superstitions. Its influence can be traced in all international processes, and especially in the NATO discussions regarding Ukraine. Take a look for yourself. 🫵🏼 Biden blocked the appointment of Wallace as NATO Secretary General over the F-16 for Ukraine. It seems that the American president took offense at the British. This is far from an isolated case. 👉🏼 The White House was irritated by London's excessively pro-Ukrainian position. The British Prime Minister led a "coalition of fighters" and gathered like-minded people ready to provide Ukraine with F16, and also promised to train our pilots. Because it was done without Washington's consent, Washington blocked the appointment of British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace as NATO Secretary General (The Telegraph). 👉🏼 And the USA also says that the NATO doors for Ukraine are open to the maximum, that they are flying off the doors, but we will not be able to get through them to the Alliance at the moment... only after "Ukraine carries out reforms and meets all the requirements of the Alliance." Even the members of this beautiful organization do not meet all the requirements of NATO, and the trap of "100% compliance" was invented by grandmother Merkel during her political shenanigans with Putin. A significant part of the former NATO entrants had a much lower level of readiness than in Ukraine today, among them there were candidates from the occupied territories. 👉🏼 And Biden also said that the Armed Forces do not need Abrams, F16, and now somehow does not share ATACMS and other progressive devices. Why? Because "Kyiv does not need it." 👉🏼 Why the White House, helping Ukraine with tens of billions of dollars, often organizes anti-Ukrainian demarches. There may be a logic in such acts and actions of the USA, but its own, American one, sharpened to their interests. Biden may have some of his obligations to China, may be angry with Kyiv for some reason, and may have his own vision for the pace of Ukraine's Liberation from the Orcs. If you put all the puzzles together, you will get a picture that is obvious for American realities. But she is unknown to us. This does not mean at all that we should agree with this subjectivism if it does not meet our expectations. 🫵🏼 So what is the real deal with NATO? The summit is less than a week away! 👉🏼 There are different predictions here. The President of Lithuania, Gitanas Nauseda, is optimistic: in his opinion, at the NATO summit in Vilnius, it will be possible to agree on such commitments to Ukraine that will not disappoint it: some NATO countries will come to Vilnius with commitments to provide security guarantees to Ukraine, and there are already agreement on the creation of the Ukraine-NATO Council to strengthen Kyiv's integration into the Alliance. Obviously, we are talking about the personal guarantees of our closest friends. 👉🏼 Budanov, on the contrary, gushes with pessimism: he says that he looked at the tables of the leaders of some countries, saw the drafts of some speeches, and is convinced that the upcoming summit will not meet the expectations of Ukrainian society. 👉🏼 46 authoritative Western experts, military and diplomats (that is, all those who think in terms of common sense, not political expediency) signed a letter with a call to provide Ukraine with a road map to NATO membership as soon as possible. The terms and specifics should foresee the entry of our state already next year at the summit in Washington. The subjectivism of geopolitics is a variable that does not always work against us. For example, even last year, Kyiv begged for air defense, we didn't even dream about Patriot, tanks, let alone F-16... and we just got HIMARS, which essentially changed the course of the war in the summer. But every "no" eventually turned into a "yes". Therefore: if common sense does not manage to push political expediency at the Vilnius turn of the geopolitical spiral, then it will definitely do it at the Washington stage. The entire logic of relations with our Western partners points to this. https://t.me/orestokratiia/817 There might be something to Biden’s slow-walking as discussed. However, IMO Biden won’t be President again. He’s an embarrassment to the country which even democrats will privately agree to. Kamala is, if anything, worse. Trump won’t be president either, though he will probably prevent a Republican candidate from winning. IMO both parties will skew toward more competent, pragmatic candidates in the next election. And if our resident Russian sympathizers think this will end support for Ukraine, think again. There is very clear, and strengthening, bipartisan support to continue aid. That decision has already been made, and I’m going to take great satisfaction in watching the end of the Russian Empire. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:43:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By postpostban: Have you been paying attention to Russia's stated goals? They intend to take over at least 6 NATO countries. I think it is better to fight that idea in Ukraine where we can arm them at our leisure and let them do the fighting, rather that let Russia invade a NATO country where article 5 kicks in. This is simple math. Arming them as we have been doing is a far cry from getting into a full nuclear exchange over this. That too is indeed simple math... |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:44:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m35ben: Originally Posted By Dracster: (Vid is 9 days old but these guys seem to love their Mk19.) Warfare near Bakhmut: border guards decimate russian infantry (ENG SUB) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF29zDyo4O8[/quo te]Is it me or do mk19s work better in Europe? Maybe they get the proper lubricants? |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:44:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: 4400 pages is a bit of a stretch to keep up with regardless of how many times cluster bomb use mentions are seeded amongst them. But one thing is for certain, it is you that put the "unconditional surrender" wishcasting on the map for me, much like the pollyannish poster above that seems to think a nuclear exchange would be a one way affair...  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By RockNwood: It’s obvious these occasional drive bys never read any of the thread. Things like cluster munitions, incendiary shells in urban fights, 497 days of threatening nukes, have all Ben. Discussed in detail many times. They pop in to make some well worn out claim and insult the regular posters who are gathering information and discussing. They have no interest in being informed. They just want to push their OPINION on to others and act all righteous and victimized when called on it. I have zero sympathy for someone that drops in to insult and make sweeping assumptions when they clearly have not read even the last 24 hrs of posts let alone the last several days. 4400 pages is a bit of a stretch to keep up with regardless of how many times cluster bomb use mentions are seeded amongst them. But one thing is for certain, it is you that put the "unconditional surrender" wishcasting on the map for me, much like the pollyannish poster above that seems to think a nuclear exchange would be a one way affair... More insults. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:45:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: @BlackHoleSon I gotcha https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/184365/Prigsaki-2875993.png Lol. Need one of her at the podium. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:46:22 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By postpostban: More insults. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By postpostban: Originally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By RockNwood: It’s obvious these occasional drive bys never read any of the thread. Things like cluster munitions, incendiary shells in urban fights, 497 days of threatening nukes, have all Ben. Discussed in detail many times. They pop in to make some well worn out claim and insult the regular posters who are gathering information and discussing. They have no interest in being informed. They just want to push their OPINION on to others and act all righteous and victimized when called on it. I have zero sympathy for someone that drops in to insult and make sweeping assumptions when they clearly have not read even the last 24 hrs of posts let alone the last several days. 4400 pages is a bit of a stretch to keep up with regardless of how many times cluster bomb use mentions are seeded amongst them. But one thing is for certain, it is you that put the "unconditional surrender" wishcasting on the map for me, much like the pollyannish poster above that seems to think a nuclear exchange would be a one way affair... More insults. I suspect we have differing views on what an insult is, would you be so kind as to point it out? |
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USA
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:49:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Iran tangent- The US Navy says it somehow thwarted Iranian military attempts to hijack two tankers in the Gulf of Oman. Moreover, it is alleged that in one of the cases, small arms fire was opened from an Iranian ship on the Richmond Voyager tanker, which is now under the control of the American company Chevron. On my own behalf, I'll add that, judging by the outlines on the frames distributed by the Americans, one of the Bayandor-class corvettes participated in the incident with the Iranian side in the Richmond Voyager incident. https://t.me/ImpNavigator/5274 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0SZudeWwAAyHFU?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0SZwDVXgA8-GKR?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0SZwj9WIAAiePM?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0SacPgXgBQRJej?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0SaeOYXgAsyfPr?format=jpg&name=medium https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0SaeqQXgBAJUGj?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0Tw_vyakAEfpuy?format=jpg&name=large I must have missed the part where the Iranian boats became a reef ... |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:51:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Putin scared of religion. It's truly powerful. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Prime:
Putin scared of religion. It's truly powerful. “You see…to stop the Nazis you have to root out the Jews.” |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 4:59:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: I have zero ties to Russia or Ukraine. This conflict, and continuing full support for Ukraine, will be a part on who I vote for in the next election cycle. I support admitting Ukraine to NATO ASAP, telling Russia to back the fuck down immediately and invoking Article 5 if Russia doesn’t initiate an immediate retreat and full ceasefire. I’m absolutely willing to burn it all down to stop Russia. Clear enough for you? 100% And I would add "absolutely willing to burn it all down to stop injustice, brutality, murder, criminal aggression, etc etc (all the usual Russian shit) in general" rather than just Russia specifically. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:00:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Their aims at this point are primarily survival as a nation and recovery of occupied lands at best. I am not the one here that bandied about the 'unconditional surrender' nonsense. IF Ukraine could recover their lands without dragging the rest of the world into the war that would be great, I'm just not sure they have the staying power to get it done. There is no doubt that man for man they currently outclass the Russians when it comes to soldiers, but then again so did the Germans... it's simply a math problem at this point. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By bigstick61: Victory is possible without unconditional surrender. It's not needed to achieve Ukraine's aims Their aims at this point are primarily survival as a nation and recovery of occupied lands at best. I am not the one here that bandied about the 'unconditional surrender' nonsense. IF Ukraine could recover their lands without dragging the rest of the world into the war that would be great, I'm just not sure they have the staying power to get it done. There is no doubt that man for man they currently outclass the Russians when it comes to soldiers, but then again so did the Germans... it's simply a math problem at this point. I don't understand the opinion that UA is dragging the rest of the world into WWIII? How does a logical mind reach this conclusion? |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:03:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Arm waving nonsense. The Russians will be forced to surrender. It will not be otherwise. It is only the terms of that surrender that are somewhat in question. But, militarily, they will be defeated. As to whether that is concurrent with an economic collapse or because of an economic collapse, that is hard to say. I doubt Russia will "surrender", they may be forced to withdraw from Ukraine, ending the war by other means. Putin's pride, ego and arrogance makes that option unavailable at the moment. When the Russia military establishment and everyday citizens discover that "golden bridge" is the solution to their problem, we may see movement in the right direction. The west and Ukraine would be perfectly satisfied with the total withdrawal of Russian troops from their soil. The war crimes prosecutions may be subject to review to allow this option to happen. Reparations too. If anyone deserves to get hung in the public square, it's Putin and his crony's. IMO it is better to take that off the table in order to induce a Russian retreat. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:05:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: No, incorrect. If any country says “we’re doing this and if you don’t like it we’ll nuke you”, it is every nation’s duty to make sure that cancer is put down, immediately. It has nothing to do with Ukraine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By AeroEngineer: I have zero ties to Russia or Ukraine. This conflict, and continuing full support for Ukraine, will be a part on who I vote for in the next election cycle. I support admitting Ukraine to NATO ASAP, telling Russia to back the fuck down immediately and invoking Article 5 if Russia doesn’t initiate an immediate retreat and full ceasefire. I’m absolutely willing to burn it all down to stop Russia. Clear enough for you? Yup, clear as a bell. You're willing to burn down the world and everyone in it over Ukraine. Crystal clear. No, incorrect. If any country says “we’re doing this and if you don’t like it we’ll nuke you”, it is every nation’s duty to make sure that cancer is put down, immediately. It has nothing to do with Ukraine. That is a pure Russian narrative to say, “If you’re willing to burn down the world over Ukraine…” No. Russia might be willing to do that. The civilized world will do whatever is necessary to stop such irrational action. Ukraine just happens to be the first country to strongly resist. If Russia is not stopped there then the exact same scenario will replay I. The Baltics, Finland, Romania, Poland. If one isn’t willing to stop Russia in Ukraine then why would we bother to stop them in Poland after they have absorbed another 40-80 million people and industry? Russia is the irrational antagonist in the macabre play. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:05:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoCalExile: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177432/F0TPBuOX0AAN8sr_png-2875759.JPG Comic gold. Prigozhin will be living on in memes long after he is dead. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:06:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plank_Spanker: I don't understand the opinion that UA is dragging the rest of the world into WWIII? How does a logical mind reach this conclusion? I take no issue with Ukraine or their actions to date, my issue is that some of the posters here feel that nothing short of the complete destruction of Russia is acceptable and many are ready to "Burn it all down" in response if need be. You may wish to ask how does a logical mind reach THAT conclusion? |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:07:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Originally Posted By RockNwood: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/494438/IMG_1931-2875890.jpg
Fantastic stepping up Romania!!! |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:10:06 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol: I doubt Russia will "surrender", they may be forced to withdraw from Ukraine, ending the war by other means. Putin's pride, ego and arrogance makes that option unavailable at the moment. When the Russia military establishment and everyday citizens discover that "golden bridge" is the solution to their problem, we may see movement in the right direction. The west and Ukraine would be perfectly satisfied with the total withdrawal of Russian troops from their soil. The war crimes prosecutions may be subject to review to allow this option to happen. Reparations too. If anyone deserves to get hung in the public square, it's Putin and his crony's. IMO it is better to take that off the table in order to induce a Russian retreat. And yet the President of South Africa was roasted over suggesting the Putin ICC warrant be recinded. Regardless of him be deserving of it, it is counterproductive to finding a peaceful resolution. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:19:23 PM EDT
[#36]
I am immensely satisfied that my mention of “unconditional surrender OR DMZ” as the only ends to the war so triggered the ”person exhibiting troll like behavior”!!
 Without one of those conditions, Russia and therefore Ukraine keeps fighting regardless of “scraps of paper”. Paper does not bring or keep peace in our time. Others have since made a good point that Ukraine becoming armed with nukes is a viable third outcome for peace with which I readily agree. Ow let’s discuss unconditional fear… |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:23:02 PM EDT
[#37]
I’m not familiar with who this guy is but as noted although very influential and spouting the narrative he avoids empty Nuke threats.
Neo-Nazis grabbed power in Ukraine after the bloody coup, organized by the US and its satellites. Pursuing their selfish goals, the US carries out an undeclared war against Russia, using territory and population of Ukraine," he said during a meeting on national security in the Southern Federal District. "Today, NATO states, led by the US, continue to fund the terrorist regime in Ukraine, pump it with weapons, provide intelligence, train Ukrainian troops, plan and coordinate military operations against the Russian Army," he stated. Threats to Russia from the US-led NATO military alliance are growing, he stated. He referred to a build-up of NATO military infrastructure near Russia’s borders, the intensification of reconnaissance activities and the presence of tactical nuclear weapons in Europe. Patrushev also accused Ukraine of striking Crimea with drones over 70 times, as well as attacking Kransodar and Rostov. It is important to note that he does not threaten with possible nuclear confrontations, but is therefore all the more dangerous. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:23:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: It's readily apparent that Russia is having a very difficult time effectively projecting conventional force on their immediate next door neighbor. Therefore I seriously doubt that conventional Russian forces steamrolling over Poland is even a possibility in our liftetime. Shit... Even if Russia teamed up with Germany again to hit Poland, Poland would end up repelling them both. I agree but how many thousands of brave Ukrainians and innocent civilians had to die to give us that sense of easy? Dont we owe them JUST FOR THAT ALONE to give them everything they need to win? We are not fighting to save Warsaw or Berlin, we are fighting to save Kherson and Donbas and all the other towns filthy-ed up with Russians. Either you believe in good .vs evil or you dont. Regardless of who is being threatened. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:26:43 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: I take no issue with Ukraine or their actions to date, my issue is that some of the posters here feel that nothing short of the complete destruction of Russia is acceptable and many are ready to "Burn it all down" in response if need be. You may wish to ask how does a logical mind reach THAT conclusion? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: Originally Posted By Plank_Spanker: I don't understand the opinion that UA is dragging the rest of the world into WWIII? How does a logical mind reach this conclusion? I take no issue with Ukraine or their actions to date, my issue is that some of the posters here feel that nothing short of the complete destruction of Russia is acceptable and many are ready to "Burn it all down" in response if need be. You may wish to ask how does a logical mind reach THAT conclusion? There are not many of those posters here. Take it down a notch and quit acting like its the majority or even a minority. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:27:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Geopolitical subjectivism is a new term that was born to me as a result of painstaking observation of world politics: it is nothing more than giving state weight to personal whims, whims and superstitions. Its influence can be traced in all international processes, and especially in the NATO discussions regarding Ukraine. Take a look for yourself. 🫵🏼 Biden blocked the appointment of Wallace as NATO Secretary General over the F-16 for Ukraine. It seems that the American president took offense at the British. This is far from an isolated case. 👉🏼 The White House was irritated by London's excessively pro-Ukrainian position. The British Prime Minister led a "coalition of fighters" and gathered like-minded people ready to provide Ukraine with F16, and also promised to train our pilots. Because it was done without Washington's consent, Washington blocked the appointment of British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace as NATO Secretary General (The Telegraph). 👉🏼 And the USA also says that the NATO doors for Ukraine are open to the maximum, that they are flying off the doors, but we will not be able to get through them to the Alliance at the moment... only after "Ukraine carries out reforms and meets all the requirements of the Alliance." Even the members of this beautiful organization do not meet all the requirements of NATO, and the trap of "100% compliance" was invented by grandmother Merkel during her political shenanigans with Putin. A significant part of the former NATO entrants had a much lower level of readiness than in Ukraine today, among them there were candidates from the occupied territories. 👉🏼 And Biden also said that the Armed Forces do not need Abrams, F16, and now somehow does not share ATACMS and other progressive devices. Why? Because "Kyiv does not need it." 👉🏼 Why the White House, helping Ukraine with tens of billions of dollars, often organizes anti-Ukrainian demarches. There may be a logic in such acts and actions of the USA, but its own, American one, sharpened to their interests. Biden may have some of his obligations to China, may be angry with Kyiv for some reason, and may have his own vision for the pace of Ukraine's Liberation from the Orcs. If you put all the puzzles together, you will get a picture that is obvious for American realities. But she is unknown to us. This does not mean at all that we should agree with this subjectivism if it does not meet our expectations. 🫵🏼 So what is the real deal with NATO? The summit is less than a week away! 👉🏼 There are different predictions here. The President of Lithuania, Gitanas Nauseda, is optimistic: in his opinion, at the NATO summit in Vilnius, it will be possible to agree on such commitments to Ukraine that will not disappoint it: some NATO countries will come to Vilnius with commitments to provide security guarantees to Ukraine, and there are already agreement on the creation of the Ukraine-NATO Council to strengthen Kyiv's integration into the Alliance. Obviously, we are talking about the personal guarantees of our closest friends. 👉🏼 Budanov, on the contrary, gushes with pessimism: he says that he looked at the tables of the leaders of some countries, saw the drafts of some speeches, and is convinced that the upcoming summit will not meet the expectations of Ukrainian society. 👉🏼 46 authoritative Western experts, military and diplomats (that is, all those who think in terms of common sense, not political expediency) signed a letter with a call to provide Ukraine with a road map to NATO membership as soon as possible. The terms and specifics should foresee the entry of our state already next year at the summit in Washington. The subjectivism of geopolitics is a variable that does not always work against us. For example, even last year, Kyiv begged for air defense, we didn't even dream about Patriot, tanks, let alone F-16... and we just got HIMARS, which essentially changed the course of the war in the summer. But every "no" eventually turned into a "yes". Therefore: if common sense does not manage to push political expediency at the Vilnius turn of the geopolitical spiral, then it will definitely do it at the Washington stage. The entire logic of relations with our Western partners points to this. https://t.me/orestokratiia/817 I guess Xiden didnt get his 10%... |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:27:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Plank_Spanker: I don't understand the opinion that UA is dragging the rest of the world into WWIII? How does a logical mind reach this conclusion? Tucker told him so. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:28:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd675: The only thing I could guess is it’s being used as leverage against Russia creating a nuclear disaster at ZNPP. The threat of NATO nations intervening directly greatly increases the chance of a nuclear exchange. Telling Russia if you do this we are going to give them all the ATACMS and tomahawks they ask for and no limits on strikes. At this point it’s cold to say but I think as long as nothing in the supply chain changes Ukraine is going to bleed the Russians until they can’t hold. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd675: Originally Posted By RockNwood: Mr SecDef, WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION, NUMBNUTS?! DIDN'T MOMMY AND DADDY SHOW YOU ENOUGH ATTENTION WHEN YOU WERE A CHILD?!
The only thing I could guess is it’s being used as leverage against Russia creating a nuclear disaster at ZNPP. The threat of NATO nations intervening directly greatly increases the chance of a nuclear exchange. Telling Russia if you do this we are going to give them all the ATACMS and tomahawks they ask for and no limits on strikes. At this point it’s cold to say but I think as long as nothing in the supply chain changes Ukraine is going to bleed the Russians until they can’t hold. Yes it is hard to fathom. And you are right that would be cold indeed to let Ukraine bleed it out with Russia. If that is the strategy, they at least owe it to Ukraine to be upfront about it in private. There could be other explanations but that is a solid contender. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:29:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: So, I guess that the next administration needs to find a bunch of rural southern and midwestern sheriffs' deputies, teach them Russian, then hire them to run the analysis and research branch of the Russia desk at the State Department?  YES |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:30:39 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:31:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: If China decides to eventually supply Russia they'll be able to directly bleed Russia of treasure and indirectly of men while simultaneously bleeding the west of treasure... The potential pitfall for China would be a (hopefully) reinvigorated and expanded western arms production infrastructure that they'd eventully have to face. and a long-term ban on Chinese products from every western nation, currently their biggest customers. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:34:02 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:34:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: There might be something to Biden’s slow-walking as discussed. However, IMO Biden won’t be President again. He’s an embarrassment to the country which even democrats will privately agree to. Kamala is, if anything, worse. Trump won’t be president either, though he will probably prevent a Republican candidate from winning. IMO both parties will skew toward more competent, pragmatic candidates in the next election. And if our resident Russian sympathizers think this will end support for Ukraine, think again. There is very clear, and strengthening, bipartisan support to continue aid. That decision has already been made, and I’m going to take great satisfaction in watching the end of the Russian Empire. I pray that you are right. |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:36:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Comic gold. Prigozhin will be living on in memes long after he is dead. Which may be next week.... |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:37:19 PM EDT
[#49]
The trouble with rubles.
Now trading at 101 per Euro. Ouch! That has to make it more painful to buy foreign components.
Key Russian regulator, the Central Bank and its head Elvira Nabiullina, consider the existing monetary policy of the Central Bank and the floating exchange rate to be effective. However, in her opinion, the ruble's weakening is due to the dynamics of foreign trade. In effect, Nabiullina not only removes responsibility from herself, but shifts it to the Ministry of Industry and Trade (which is responsible for foreign trade) and, respectively, its head Denis Manturov. After all, import substitution has failed (by them), and the goods necessary for the Russian economy can only be purchased with dollars and euros - which leads to an outflow of currency and an increase in its value. Moreover, the Central Bank's inability to regulate the exchange rate has also led to a policy of promoting settlements in national currencies. It is as a result of this policy, actively promoted by, among others, Finance Minister Anton Siluanov, that Russia has accumulated huge amounts of rupees, dirhams, liras, even Nicaraguan cordobos. None of them are able to support the ruble when it falls because, unlike the dollar and euro, these currencies have limited liquidity. The model of de-dollarization and parallel imports, which Russia has been implemented, proved unsustainable. The Central Bank does not have the currency to stabilize the ruble today. Since the crisis is systemic and cannot be solved using only the tools in possession of the Bank of Russia tools, one can assume that the problem will be solved by administrative methods at the government level. Russia does not want to admit failure with "de-dollarization". This means that it will push the country into hyperinflation. - Any "rubleification", "de-dollarization" and other "transition to settlements in national currencies" will literally sink the ruble. But Russian officials decided to prove their theory is correct. - Russians started buying gold and real estate because the ruble might lose a lot of its value soon. - Russian officials and oligarchs are not facing ruin because they don't keep their money in rubles or yuans. And obviously their money is not in Russia. And the rest of the Russians might expect all their accounts being frozen at some point. Based on analytical materials by @future_ui |
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Posted: 7/6/2023 5:39:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By juan223: And yet the President of South Africa was roasted over suggesting the Putin ICC warrant be recinded. Regardless of him be deserving of it, it is counterproductive to finding a peaceful resolution. As long as Russians are inside Ukraine's borders, there will be no peaceful resolution. Making Communists into good Communists, should be on the front burner until the remaining Communists get the message. |
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