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Posted: 9/16/2009 10:28:30 AM EST
I can tell you first hand that is has had really bad repercussions for my kids......they do things like say "Sir" and "ma'am"....have been known to sit in class and listen to the teacher.......and get this-they are the highest achievers in their respective classes.

I think if this behavior continues I'll probably start medicating them.

Think a little spanking won't do much harm to kids? New research says the effects can be long-lasting.


Children are too young to understand when parenting behavior is wrong, a social psychologist says.

Experts say "popping" kids can do more harm than good. A new study of more than 2,500 toddlers from low-income families found that spanking may have detrimental effects on behavior and mental development.

"We're talking about infants and toddlers, and I think that just, cognitively, they just don't understand enough about right or wrong or punishment to benefit from being spanked," said Lisa Berlin, the study's lead author and research scientist at the Center for Child and Family Policy at Duke University.

Berlin and colleagues found that children who were spanked as 1-year-olds tended to behave more aggressively at age 2, and did not perform as well as other children on a test measuring thinking skills at age 3. The study is published in the journal Child Development.

Although these effects were somewhat small, the study is just the latest of many supporting psychologists' advice against spanking. Still, some experts say spanking has a time and place.

The new study focused on children from low-income families because prior research suggested that spanking is more common among them, Berlin said. This may be because of the added stresses of parenting in a low-income situation, or because of a "cultural contagion" of behaviors among people. For example, in some families this study examined, a grandmother would spank a child, or neighbors would encourage physical discipline, she said.

Her study found that about one-third of the 1-year-olds, and about half of the 2- and 3-year-olds, had been spanked in the previous week, according to mothers' self-reporting to the researchers. At all three ages, African-American children were spanked significantly more frequently than those from white and Mexican-American families, and verbally punished more than the other children at ages 2 and 3, the study said.

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Previous research had also found that parents who spank are more likely to be younger, less educated, single, and/or depressed and stressed, Berlin's study said. Spanking is most commonly used among parents who were spanked themselves, who live in the South, and/or who identify themselves as conservative Christians. These parents also tend to believe in the effectiveness of spanking or believe the child is at fault in a given situation, the study said.

The new research refutes the idea that more aggressive children are more likely to be spanked, Berlin said. On the other hand, the study did find that children who were fussier at age 1 were more likely to be spanked and verbally punished, she said.

Verbal punishment did not appear to have the same detrimental effects as spanking in this study, Berlin said.

Some remain unconvinced that parents should never spank their children. Robert Larzelere, associate professor of human development and family science at Oklahoma State University, conducted a meta-analysis of 26 studies on the subject, and found that, overall, spanking seemed more effective than 10 of 13 alternative disciplinary methods for getting a child to behave or do as asked.

Much of the research on the subject does not clearly demonstrate a causal link, Larzelere said. For example, in comparing studies, children who are spanked and children who are taken to psychologists both are more likely to have aggressive behavior later, he said.

The best use of spanking, Larzelere said, is in children between the ages of 2 and 6 when milder discipline tactics, such as time out, fail.

"That's why psychologists trained parents to use spanking that way for 25 years [from the] late '60s to mid-'90s," he said. Now, the trend of advice is away from spanking, but there's not much hard evidence to support it, he said.

Berlin's study focused on particularly early ages, Larzelere noted; much of the spanking literature focuses on ages 2 and older. Twelve months is probably too early to spank children, but there's no established point between ages 1 and 2 at which it is appropriate, he said.

Others say parents should not resort to spanking at any age. Susan Newman, social psychologist and author of "Little Things Long Remembered: Making Your Children Feel Special Every Day," said parents should discourage bad behaviors by taking away privileges such as dessert, or setting an earlier bedtime. They should also reinforce good behaviors verbally, saying how nice it is when their children share, for example.

The study corroborates what clinical psychologist Laura Markham, who was not involved in the study, has observed about the negative effects of spanking. Many mothers describe their children as fussy, resistant and demanding at age 1, which is a critical junction in the parent-child relationship, she said in an e-mail.

"If the mother sees this fussiness as willful misbehavior and begins verbally punishing or spanking, rather than empathizing with the child, the child's behavior deteriorates into more tantrums and other frustrating behavior," said Markham, who also offers advice at AhaParenting.com.

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Newman also noted that children are too young to understand when parenting behavior is wrong, even at the level of abuse. Physical violence gets passed down in families because the only parenting skills people know are the behaviors that they saw at home, she said.

Spanking, moreover, reinforces negative memories in the child's mind, Newman said. Parents should aim instead to build "prominent, happy memories" of childhood for their kids, she said.

Regardless of income level, all parents can benefit from training classes, Newman said.

For future research, Berlin is looking at programs that work with low-income or high-risk families and try to promote supportive parenting behaviors.

In the spanking study, some mothers said they were receiving parenting services in which they were counseled not to spank their children.

"This is definitively the direction in which services are going and in which, in general, American culture is going," Berlin said.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:32:55 AM EST
Obviously, the person who wrote that should have had his ass beat as a kid, & now too!!
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:34:16 AM EST

Yeah, 'cause making 'em sit in a time out works so well. Tell you what, the thought of not being able to sit down for a while because of a good spanking motivated me to be quicker on the uptake in the lesson phase of my childhood.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:36:34 AM EST



IME,if you do a good enough job of parenting,there's no reason to hit a kid.

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:37:34 AM EST
Johnny is 3 and he gets a stern talking to (which doesn't faze him) when he pulls Jimmy's hair.

Johnny is 6 and he gets a time-out when he talks back to teacher.

Johnny is 9 and he gets another stern talking to when he steals something from the department store.

Jonny is 14 and gets juvenile hall and a stern talking to from the judge when he steals a car.

Johnny is 18 and get the death penalty when the man whose house he's robbing fights back and gets killed in the process.


We sure are doing this nation's youth a wonderful favor with all the time outs and stern talks.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:38:56 AM EST
I stopped reading when they were talking about spanking a 1 year old. They can't even talk or really even comprehend much beyond "boobies" and you want them to know the did something wrong?
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:39:05 AM EST
Who the hell spanks a 1 year old?
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:39:54 AM EST
I'm not sure I disagree. I have no problem with spanking. This article is specifally addressing spanking up to age 2, and was more focused on under age 1. I really don't see spanking such a young child as helpful. A child that young has limited cognitive and reasoning abilities. Now I can see somewhere between age 1 and 2 that kids will start to "get it". Age 2 and up feel free to whack away.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:40:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By outofbattery:



IME,if you do a good enough job of parenting,there's no reason to hit a kid.


there is never a reason to hit a kid, but spanking a kid in need of one always works
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:40:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 10:42:29 AM EST by Quarterbore]
I am refusing to post here or some asshat liberal social worker would knock on my door

Still, a spanking is sometimes needed especually in those darned tween and early teen years when kids think they are big enough that they no longer need to listen or obay their parents. Follow the rules or suffer the consequences and the belt makes the lesson last longer with bigger kids.

EDIT: I didn't read the OP until after I replied, I never spaked any of our kids under the age of 3. At three they may have got a spank once in a while but time outs or stern lectures are enough.

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:41:35 AM EST
MY question is why were all the toddlers from "low income" families? What the f**k does that have to do with whether or not spanking your kids is beneficial? If anything, the results of said study can be ignored based solely on the fact that they chose children from low income families. Who is to say that the low income and not the spankings were to blame?
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:41:35 AM EST
A new study of more than 2,500 toddlers from low-income families found that spanking may have detrimental effects on behavior and mental development.
I'm not convinced spanking was the problem. Correlation <> causation.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:44:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By leo6223:
I can tell you first hand that is has had really bad repercussions for my kids......they do things like say "Sir" and "ma'am"....have been known to sit in class and listen to the teacher.......and get this-they are the highest achievers in their respective classes.

I think if this behavior continues I'll probably start medicating them.

Think a little spanking won't do much harm to kids? New research says the effects can be long-lasting.


Children are too young to understand when parenting behavior is wrong, a social psychologist says.

Experts say "popping" kids can do more harm than good. A new study of more than 2,500 toddlers from low-income families found that spanking may have detrimental effects on behavior and mental development.

.


I stopped reading at the above.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:45:01 AM EST
If you read the article it is not opposed to spanking. It focuses on kids being spanked at too young an age.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:46:01 AM EST
i was spanked as a kid and i turned out fine
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:47:36 AM EST
There is an absolute line between spanking your kid and beating the shit out of them, I would assume this article more leans towards equating beating the crap out of your child to spanking - i mean what brain dead moron "spanks" a 1 year old?

Spanking is fine, I caught it maybe 4x in my life - guess what, ive never robbed, stolen, i have a great education and consider myself pretty stable
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:50:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Yossarian:
Originally Posted By leo6223:
I can tell you first hand that is has had really bad repercussions for my kids......they do things like say "Sir" and "ma'am"....have been known to sit in class and listen to the teacher.......and get this-they are the highest achievers in their respective classes.

I think if this behavior continues I'll probably start medicating them.

Think a little spanking won't do much harm to kids? New research says the effects can be long-lasting.


Children are too young to understand when parenting behavior is wrong, a social psychologist says.

Experts say "popping" kids can do more harm than good. A new study of more than 2,500 toddlers from low-income families found that spanking may have detrimental effects on behavior and mental development.

.


I stopped reading at the above.

+1 If you want the stats to prove a certain point just take them from a jaded sample group.

What a joke.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:54:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By outofbattery:



IME,if you do a good enough job of parenting,there's no reason to hit a kid.



Depends on the kid, Some kids never need to be spanked. Some kids no matter how good of a parrent you are might only be corrected by spankings.

If your lucky enough to have children who do not require spankings, then good for you. But in a differnt circumstance, you might change your mind

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:56:17 AM EST
It done wonders for me.

Commie plot
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:57:04 AM EST
I was beaten as a kid. I think I turned out pretty well.

But really, low income housing? How many of the kids got beat for just being born into a shitty house hold? Angry parents?
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:58:22 AM EST
I'll go along with the no spanking for 1 year olds. 2 and up though, they are aware enough to make the connection to punishment and behavior. Spanking, when done right, is not abusive in any way. When I was growing up, my dad spanked me only 5 or 6 times total, but I can say, as an adult now, they were all well deserved, and did deter future bad behavior. One of the biggest mistakes we made as a society is trying to eliminate all physical punishment for children, and stigmatizing parents that spank. If there was more spanking, there would be a lot less ritalin and other crap prescribed. My wife is an elementary teacher with a masters in learning disabilities, and she sees a lot of kids that are unnecessarily medicated these days. Medicine should not be taking the place of proper home discipline.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:00:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By outofbattery:



IME,if you do a good enough job of parenting,there's no reason to hit a kid.



I am willing to bet you dont have kids. I have three kids and sometimes it takes a little motivation to the ass to get them going in the right direction. The only thing that makes parenting tough is having people like the person who wrote that BS article undermind practices that have worked for centuries. Discipline isnt all about spanking, but sometimes it is necessary.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:05:32 AM EST
This study was not about spanking, it was about low income 'parents' who start hitting their kids when the children were too young to understand the relation between their behavior and the punishment.

Spanking/hitting or not these kids are going to have a hard time turning out right.

Forunately I can tell my wife that the study found no detremental effects of spanking on 53 year old males.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:07:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By outofbattery:



IME,if you do a good enough job of parenting,there's no reason to hit a kid.



IME if you never spank your kid you probably aren't doing a good enough job of parenting.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:10:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By PBIR:
A new study of more than 2,500 toddlers from low-income families found that spanking may have detrimental effects on behavior and mental development.
I'm not convinced spanking was the problem. Correlation <> causation.


Bingo.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:11:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By SISUltra:
Originally Posted By outofbattery:



IME,if you do a good enough job of parenting,there's no reason to hit a kid.



I am willing to bet you dont have kids. I have three kids and sometimes it takes a little motivation to the ass to get them going in the right direction. The only thing that makes parenting tough is having people like the person who wrote that BS article undermind practices that have worked for centuries. Discipline isnt all about spanking, but sometimes it is necessary.


Not just centuries but all of human history. Even animals use pain as correction for their young. Dogs nip at their young when the do somthing wrong, horses chase their young for corection and also nip. Apes and monkeys whack their young.

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:14:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 11:16:24 AM EST by Sugarfree]
A new study of more than 2,500 toddlers from low-income families found that spanking may have detrimental effects on behavior and mental development.



Is it really because of the spanking? Nothing to do with culture? Parenting styles? Nutrition? Education?


Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:15:19 AM EST
Who else stopped reading at the "low income families" line?
Lets repeat the study with married familes making over $50k.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:15:31 AM EST
Spanking was horrible for me. It restricted my liberty by forcing me to not lie, steal, or punch my siblings. It's only a wonder I grew to be a responsible, balanced adult.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:18:36 AM EST
I did a paper on this for one of my psy classes in college. Almost every single study I looked at showed that the cons of spanking greatly outweigh the pros if you take into account the long term effects it has on the child.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:22:21 AM EST

There are two kinds of spankers (well, three, only two are relevant to this thread ).

First one is the parent that spanks their children as a disciplinary action, doesn't take it lightly, and only uses it at the higher end of the punishment spectrum.

The other is one who is frustrated that life didn't turn out the way they wanted or thought it would. They're upset they're stuck at home on a friday night wiping asses or doing dishes while their friends are out partying and going to college. And the kid just won't listen. In fact, they just skip any other kind of disciplinary action since they're not disciplining anymore - they're venting their rage. Ain't even about the kid anymore to them.

Guess which category was more prominent 50 years ago and why seemed to work then, and which is more widespread today and why it seems to fuck kids up more often.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:23:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:24:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:28:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By tojan19:
I'm not sure I disagree. I have no problem with spanking. This article is specifally addressing spanking up to age 2, and was more focused on under age 1. I really don't see spanking such a young child as helpful. A child that young has limited cognitive and reasoning abilities. Now I can see somewhere between age 1 and 2 that kids will start to "get it". Age 2 and up feel free to whack away.


I'll agree with that. You can't physically reprimand a child who has no reasoning skills. They don't fully understand what is right and wrong yet. Nor should spanking be used as the sole punishment for children, and no doubt there are many people who use it as such. Spanking has it's place but that is as a last resort.

A child who acts appropriately only because of all-out fear of physical punishment is going to become a messed up adult when there is no one who can spank them anymore.

And simply because your dad beat the shit out of you and you turned out "okay", doesn't mean spanking is an appropriate response to discipline a child. Every child is different and will react differently to punishment. If you are unable to control your child without hitting him, you need to find a parenting class or a therapist.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:35:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By texas_mustang_01:


And simply because your dad beat the shit out of you and you turned out "okay", doesn't mean spanking is an appropriate response to discipline a child.


The fact that it is effective makes it an appropriate response when combined with an explanation of why the child is being punished.

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:35:48 AM EST
They can write whatever article or study they want, but at the end of the day, they don't have to deal with the children. Nothing offends me more than bullshit researchers conducting tests with a pre-defined result (who came up with the thinking skills test? Why is it not posted with the article?) in order to tell real parents what they should do with their children.

It's your children. You raise yours, I'll raise mine, and whatever damage or benefit that does, when they get out into the real world, they are on their own to overcome it or benefit from it. My mother and father are not the cause of all my mistakes, and they don't get credit for all my successes... they get credit for keeping me fed and sheltered, and that is enough.

These researchers can take their theories and shove them, waste of money and time and it is yet another representation of suburban surplus energy being channeled into telling other people what to do. If these researchers want to help my family, they'll watch my kids for a night so my wife and I can get it on in peace, rather than telling me what some people said on a questionnaire and what the kids did on some BS test.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:44:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Originally Posted By outofbattery:

IME,if you do a good enough job of parenting,there's no reason to hit a kid.

I'd pretty much concur with that.

That doesn't mean I haven't spanked my kids, but it was VERY rare. If you end up resorting to spanking, it's YOU who has lost control. Ultimately, I think spanking is a vent that makes us feel better. Kids probably don't learn very much from it.

Spanking once in a great while - not going to ruin the kid's life. Doing it often: You got a problem.


So your saying the times you have spanked your children is when you have lost control and it was a way for you to vent and gave you a feel better.
In that case YOU should not ever spank a child and I would consider what you have done as Abuse!!

I am alright with spanking by parents who have control of their feelings and dont loose control and dont do it for their own venting and to make themselves feel beter as you put it.

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:45:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By outofbattery:



IME,if you do a good enough job of parenting,there's no reason to hit a kid.


This.

My daughter is very well behaved, has good manners and an honor roll student since kindergarten. I've never had to hit her, ever.

But, hey, what do I know?
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:46:35 AM EST
Some crazy ideas of spanking and shitty parenting if you use it in this thread.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:47:38 AM EST
Im willing to bet money that the research was done by and the report was authored by people that DONT HAVE KIDS.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:48:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:51:38 AM EST
I suspect you have pure correlation, with no causation present. Highly educated liberal-types are going to be the ones falling into the "no spanking" category. So you are going to have a large self-selection bias.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:05:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By PBIR:
A new study of more than 2,500 toddlers from low-income families found that spanking may have detrimental effects on behavior and mental development.
I'm not convinced spanking was the problem. Correlation <> causation.
Exactly what I was going to point out.

Originally Posted By Skillshot:
Spanking was horrible for me. It restricted my liberty by forcing me to not lie, steal, or punch my siblings. It's only a wonder I grew to be a responsible, balanced adult.

When did this happen?

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:05:21 PM EST
I'm sure there is a correlation between number of spankings and "thinking skills" as the child matures: dumb children are going to be more likely to have disciplinary problems than smart children. It doesn't mean you don't spank them, it makes it more important.

I will say though that not ALL children should be spanked. With some girls, yelling is punishment enough and spanking would be traumatic for them. For some boys, getting physical when it's not necessary only makes them rebellious and vengeful. For the majority of kids though, spanking does a lot of good.

Also, spanking actually IS detrimental to the development of children according to most liberals: it tends to produce kids that are well-behaved, disciplined, and respectful, which is totally counter to the "values" of liberals - they think kids like that are little Nazis.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:07:15 PM EST
((scratchs head))

Seemed to work alright in my case.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:20:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 12:24:22 PM EST by The_Macallan]


Depends on the kid. (some kids respond perfectly well to verbal "reminders" and/or nonphysical reprimands - as long as they're consistently applied)

Depends on the parents. (IMO, usually parents who resort to spanking can't control themselves, let alone instill discipline in their kid)


I'd bet nearly all cases of spanking are due to the parents problems in parenting rather than the kid's problem.


"How {swat!}

many {swat!}

times {swat!}

do I have to {swat!}

tell you {swat!}

you {swat!}

do not {swat!}

hit {swat!}

your {swat!}

little brother {swat!}

when {swat!}

he {swat!}

does something {swat!}

you {swat!}

don't {swat!}

like! {swat!}

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:36:34 PM EST
I am pretty sure that 1-3 is too young for spanking anyway. I can't get spanked until I show ID.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:41:50 PM EST
I was spanked as a kid, and turned out great. I spank my kids, and everyone says they are the most well behaved kids they have met. My kids know that if they get into trouble then my hand will be on their ass in a heart beat. After you punish them, tell them why you did it, and don't forget to tell them you still love them.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:43:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By StraightShooter7:
I did a paper on this for one of my psy classes in college. Almost every single study I looked at showed that the cons of spanking greatly outweigh the pros if you take into account the long term effects it has on the child.


All of those studies were part of a liberal plot...
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:45:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Windustsearch:
Who the hell spanks a 1 year old?
<–––––––––– Does


Not HARD, but a light spanking or a sharp smack on the wrist does wonders. When you tell a kid "No", and he turns and smiles at you, and proceeds do do EXACTLY what you told him not to do, a punishment is justified. Toddlers understand a lot more than you think they do. Coincidentally, they tend to STOP doing what you told them not to do.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:59:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 1:00:51 PM EST by fatalerror113]
Originally Posted By odfox:
They can write whatever article or study they want, but at the end of the day, they don't have to deal with the children. Nothing offends me more than bullshit researchers conducting tests with a pre-defined result (who came up with the thinking skills test? Why is it not posted with the article?) in order to tell real parents what they should do with their children.

It's your children. You raise yours, I'll raise mine, and whatever damage or benefit that does, when they get out into the real world, they are on their own to overcome it or benefit from it. My mother and father are not the cause of all my mistakes, and they don't get credit for all my successes... they get credit for keeping me fed and sheltered, and that is enough.

These researchers can take their theories and shove them, waste of money and time and it is yet another representation of suburban surplus energy being channeled into telling other people what to do. If these researchers want to help my family, they'll watch my kids for a night so my wife and I can get it on in peace, rather than telling me what some people said on a questionnaire and what the kids did on some BS test.


So, you beat one year olds? This study is saying that spanking a kid before they are able to fully understand it does more harm than good. I don't think that falls under the category of "totally BS made up by conspiracy scientists with an agenda".
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