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Posted: 12/5/2007 4:52:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2007 4:52:11 AM EDT by Waldo]
to a real SHTF? And if you think you will do OK, plse tell why.
Link Posted: 12/5/2007 3:45:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Travis:
No .mil but am a LEO also served as a paramedic and fire fighter as well as rescue technician. With that being said I have no idea how I would respond to TEOTWAWKI I'm hoping for the improvise, adapt, overcome but from being in some situations I realize you will never truly know how you or anyone else will respond until the situation presents itself and each situation is different. I also recognize that a lot of people on this site and others have a lot more experience and knowledge then I do. Sorry guess I don't see my LEO training being a substitute for experience in other situations my other emergency services probably would have equal or greater meaning in these situations.


I honestly believe that you can control how you will react. It is a mind set that comes from training yourself to handle new and stressfull situations, while maintaining your creativity and calm.

My job has nothing to do with combat, but it can be extremely challenging, especially with the last company I worked for. I had to think on my feet all the time. If we wanted to win, I had to be the guy who truely understood what was happening and deal with the situation. Make it happen no matter what, often under physical duress (I worked on machines that absolutely punished technicians, often working rediculous hours).

This often meant drawing a conclusion on what the customer really needed and had problems with from tiny amounts of data, often exposing issues that the owners and managers didn't even know was a problem. All this while they were trying their best to dismiss or products and skills.

I had to be right, every single time. Since I am only human, I wasn't always, but my quick decisions won us the business at least 80%.

You can learn to take on any very stressfull situation calmly and thoughtfully.

I believe that you can't teach yourself to handle anything.


I am not saying my job prepared me for combat, but it did teach me to remain calm when the whole world seems to be coming down around me, nothing is going right, and still make the saving decision that made the whole situation turn out to our advantage.

That being said, I will probably still crap my pants, but I have to believe that I will be incontrol of the rest of me, and I will come out okay.
Link Posted: 12/5/2007 4:13:40 AM EDT
Army here, I know some people tho who arent either and they will do fine......know some X mil who will freak out and act like sheep....It helps but not a requirement MHO
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:03:54 PM EDT
Sorry past .mil here.
So I watch.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:04:11 PM EDT
i fail to see the relevency. As survival is a mindset, any one can have it, regardless of profession. People arent just gonna eat a gun because they arent soldiers or cops.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:06:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By loon_138:
i fail to see the relevency. As survival is a mindset, any one can have it, regardless of profession. People arent just gonna eat a gun because they arent soldiers or cops.


Then tell us what your mindset is. Many of the hardcore posters on Arfcom think that if you're not Military or LEO's you don't have a chance!!! So, do you???
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:11:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 3:12:45 PM EDT by Fearlessleader01]
Not .mil, but done enough with them to know how to keep my cool.

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

ETA: Nice attention whoring on GD
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:12:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 3:17:16 PM EDT by 21BoomCBTENGR]
i've got the Rambo boxed set, my dvd of Red Dawn is worn out, and my house could double for the Multicam shipping warehouse.

I'm just worried about running out of terrorists/zombies!

ETA I'm .mil and also sitting this out.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:14:06 PM EDT
USMC....now just observing
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:14:34 PM EDT
Farm boy, spend alot of my time outdoors, also athletic, EMT/FF, know surrounding land very well. All around jack of trades. Know my tools: weaknesses - pluses. And the biggest thing level headed, with a touch of coldness. Other than that hope for alot of luck.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:20:53 PM EDT
I am prior mil. and LEO so I am sitting this one out also.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:27:29 PM EDT
Even people who have military or leo experience don't necessarily know how they'll react. And then there's the other question for those who did have military or leo experience, Would that experience help you in an SHTF situation? Somebody who spent lots of time in combat arms MOS's might be able to handle it better than someone who did nothing by Clerk/Typist.
Of course, Gunkid claimed to have military experience, but if he did, it sure didn't seem to help him learn anything.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:29:52 PM EDT
I'm a veteran and don't see where being .mil or LEO will prepare you for SHTF or TEOTWAWKI.

I know lots of LEO's,( and am related to a couple), aren't ready for anything. And lots of guys in the .mil were just doing a job, not doing anything close to survival skills. Most of them wouldn't know what to do without a chow hall to go to.

Anyway my growing poor as dirt on a reservation may actually been some of my best prep experiance I have recieved.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:31:52 PM EDT
Circumstances dictate the course of action.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:33:30 PM EDT
Arnold is a fag.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:34:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 3:35:17 PM EDT by Followthehollow]
You could have all the pie you want, all the womenz will be trying to find someone to protect them since their metrosexual boyfriend just wet himself!


All you need is a rifle, food, water, and a truck of rubbers!
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:35:55 PM EDT
IBTL
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:36:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:
Not .mil, but done enough with them to know how to keep my cool.

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

ETA: Nice attention whoring on GD


Thank you...Thankyouverymuch!!!!
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:37:33 PM EDT
I'm not ex-mil. The five choices seem like they are on the "tongue in cheek" side. I wouldn't go "full Arnold" or "wolverines," if I think I understand what you mean by those terms. I wouldn't sit in the corner and whimper. I wouldn't eat my gun - not even the tastiest looking one. And I probably would not be in the mood for pie.

So I didn't vote. So what would I do? That's my business, and I don't care to share what I would do in this silly thread.

Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:42:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By astronwolf:
I'm not ex-mil. The five choices seem like they are on the "tongue in cheek" side. I wouldn't go "full Arnold" or "wolverines," if I think I understand what you mean by those terms. I wouldn't sit in the corner and whimper. I wouldn't eat my gun - not even the tastiest looking one. And I probably would not be in the mood for pie.

So I didn't vote. So what would I do? That's my business, and I don't care to share what I would do in this silly thread.


UUUUHHHHH...OK. This is a serious question framed in the popular vernacular. But, if you don't want to participate....FINE!!!
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:49:53 PM EDT
I will handle it like any other day. I will just do what I have to do. I will work hard, defend my family, and make a living.

If someone shoots at me, I will:
1) shit my pants
2) engage and neutralize the enemy or retreat to a safe area or both
3) clean out my shorts

I hope to avoid actions 1 and 2 if possible!

Nobody wants to face death, but if I have to, I want to go protecting my family (or engaging in intercourse with 3 impressionable college girls). This will give me strength when facing what ever I will have to face. I have absolutely no doubt that I will be afraid, but the enemy will not notice.

Now a bunch of folks will get mad at me for not including cowardice as a option.

I don't have practice at combat with hostiles of different varieties, but I am really, really good and making a living and working hard.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:51:32 PM EDT

I'm not ex-mil. The five choices seem like they are on the "tongue in cheek" side. I wouldn't go "full Arnold" or "wolverines," if I think I understand what you mean by those terms. I wouldn't sit in the corner and whimper. I wouldn't eat my gun - not even the tastiest looking one. And I probably would not be in the mood for pie.

So I didn't vote. So what would I do? That's my business, and I don't care to share what I would do in this silly thread.


So why even bother to post?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:53:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 4:03:06 PM EDT by FACTS]

Originally Posted By GOBLIN1:

Originally Posted By loon_138:
i fail to see the relevency. As survival is a mindset, any one can have it, regardless of profession. People arent just gonna eat a gun because they arent soldiers or cops.


Then tell us what your mindset is. Many of the hardcore posters on Arfcom think that if you're not Military or LEO's you don't have a chance!!! So, do you???


Now you've done it.

I agree with your post. But I also agree that I jogged up 5 flighs of stairs and my legs went numb today.

There are alot of aspects to an end of the world as we know it senerio. Some aspects are all about phyical fitness, some are mental fitness. Some aspects concern financial concerns. Did you make enough money in real life to build the perverbial castle and stock it with years of food?

The answere is different for all of us. Hell, some of us are too old to give a shit about surviving another 20 years. Some of us will just sail the open sea and fend off pirates.

Are we talking asteroid or a nuke, civil disorder or local disaster. I say we will try to preserve our life and loved ones lives as best we can.

Some will even go as far as to learn to speak chinaneese and bow to their overlords.

If you are not .mil or Leo you are alittle behind the curve usually and typically because you don't have the range time or the phyical fitness typically found in the aformentioned disaplines.

Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:54:07 PM EDT
Wolverines!!! what else would you expect in the SF?
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:54:32 PM EDT
Training helps to instill the correct reactions to a situation. But that doesn't mean shit. Smart people do stupid things, stupid people save the world, cats and dogs do live in harmony.

.mil or LEO experience may tend to mean they have a better chance of survival. But there's morons in all walks of life.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 3:54:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 3:57:09 PM EDT by Mndless]

Originally Posted By GOBLIN1:
to a real SHTF? And if you think you will do OK, plse tell why.


Interesting question... I have no mil nor LE history... but I have little concern for how I would handle any such situation....

The real question that is being missed is why you have asked the question. What thought processes did you have, issues did you consider, opinion you have of yourself, specifically, Mil and LE experience in general, that would make you want to post such a question? Interesting indeed!



Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:07:57 PM EDT
Your question has a very Leftist tone to it.

You really think civilians with a survivalist perspective will carry on much different from .mil or LEO folks?

Under that line of thought....you'll be taking guns away from civilians next.

Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:13:43 PM EDT
I was a fire man for two years and did some very bad car wrecks, and a couple of very large structure fires. I handled my self very well with no panicking or freezing. And I once had to pick up a lady's foot out of the floor of her car.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:17:53 PM EDT
I will be fine, because FEMA will be bringing the debit cards.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:18:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 4:19:14 PM EDT by FACTS]
Just to stir the pot alittle, I've heard a story from a friend at work.

We'll call him Bob.

My friend at work said that Bob had lost a massive amount of muscle mass after leaving the Marines and was blaming it on the high calorie diet he had been used to.

Bob used to be a Marine. Bob said that once you leave the Marines you are not fed the high calorie diet and you don't work out like a Marine.
Bob was a bouncer at a local night club.

Bob had helped close the bar and was walking to his car. Bob was hit in the back of the head with a pipe and Bob's gun was taken from his unconcious body.

I know that this is just a second hand story. But the entire idea that you are a bad ass does not count for shit if you are a civilian of one.

We are all human an all very able to be killed very quickly, even if we are .mil or Leo.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:25:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 4:27:24 PM EDT by 45stops-em-quick]
Not getting into my own particulars, but as others have said, .mil or LE training will not prepare you for SHTF. Military training is based primarily on giving you the skills needed to follow orders in the job you have. If that job is Recon or Special Forces, then great, if it's a mechanic in the AF, then your training is not going to give you any advantage over a civilian aircraft mechanic. LE training trains people to go out and arrest people, not to improvise, adapt and overcome. All those NOPD guys and gals who ran or looted during Katrina sure weren't prepared. The bottom line is that you will react according to how you prepare. My buddy's Mr. Supercop, attached to fedgov taskforces, tac team, etc. but can't fix something simple in his own house. Most cops on the street know what they know, and then know how to call for someone who knows more.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:30:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 4:30:51 PM EDT by GOBLIN1]

Originally Posted By noon:
Your question has a very Leftist tone to it.

You really think civilians with a survivalist perspective will carry on much different from .mil or LEO folks?

Under that line of thought....you'll be taking guns away from civilians next.



Where the f**k did you come up with that. The simple fact is the hardcores on GD think we are useless. I just want to know how we can cope with a real SHTF, or is all this just one big fantasy!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:30:10 PM EDT
Not looking to piss in anyone's cheerios, but are you saying that the post EOTWAWKI world will be populated by only LEO or MIL trained individuals? That is absurd at the very least. Now I have the utmsot respect for ALL who have served this country in the Armed Forces, and respect any LEO who show the same respect to Joe Q Public. But I have to ask just how service = survival?

I have never served (6 screws in my R hip since age 13) but I was homeless through 2 NE winters (no shelters for me, slept outside) I would say that is more PRACTICAL survival experiance than most non combat millitary and a hell of a lot more than just about ANY LEO.

I drove taxi for 10 years on the night shift and I would put my knowledge of human behavior up against most any veteran LEO and I am by far a better driver than most LEO for the experience

I have raised 4 kids and have become a pretty compitent field medic. I can tend lacerations that need stitches, set broken bones,diagnose and treat most common illnesses.

I shoot regularly at the range, probably more than maybe half the LEO and until the recent hostilities more than most Mil. , I have a fare knowledge of primitive skills and practice them, I hunt, fish, my wife sews, gardens, preserves food. I worked farms in my youth and can tend livestock (my vetrinary skills are a little rusty)

And I have been married twice, the current one lasting 17 1/2 years. This would qualify me for a job in hell

So how does this stack against Mil/LEO? I cant call in an air strike, nor do I know much about combined arms ops. I dont know how to preform a traffic stop...wait, 10 years of taxis, I know how to preform a traffic stop. I am not near as fit as most FULL TIME mil, but I have seen alot of Nat Grd that I'm better off then. and I have seen very few LEO in my age group in my AO that are more fit than I am.

Again, no of the above was meant to piss anyone off, and to answer the original question posed, I would go eat pie.

RLS



Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:34:57 PM EDT
Ok, I can see the advantages portions of military training brings to the table with regards to survival but what the hell good would having LEO experience do you in a real SHTF? I'm not dogging LEO's - I know a shit load of them - but none strike me as been transformed into TEOTWAWKI gods by their LEO training or job experience.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 4:52:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:
Ok, I can see the advantages portions of military training brings to the table with regards to survival but what the hell good would having LEO experience do you in a real SHTF? I'm not dogging LEO's - I know a shit load of them - but none strike me as been transformed into TEOTWAWKI gods by their LEO training or job experience.


They are in their own minds...trust me!!!
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 5:01:56 PM EDT
Disappear, eat pie, stay alive, eat more pie...
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 5:10:06 PM EDT
so what does previous military and le experience got to do with how you act in a shtf type situation?,

as I remember, there were plenty of LE's looting or booking out during nola; and there were none to happy looking during the la riots after the rodney king episode.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 5:15:12 PM EDT
the only Mil experiance i have is Army Reserve (joined when I was 17) and ive been out for quite a while. boot camp and AIT didnt teach me shit about survival. real life did. i will do what i have to do to survive, be it hunting for food, eating my neighbors dog, or killing zombies. my family is my life and i will do anything to keep them safe and alive. the ones who make it in a SHTF situation will be the Hard headed ones who will never give up.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 5:52:47 PM EDT
.mil and former LEO. Got nothing to say here.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 5:56:36 PM EDT
well, the flip side of that kind of thinking is that military/LE personnel are accustomed to working within a command structure, with massive support elements and for limited contact times. none of this would be the case for a civilian in a major crisis.

now, i think that many servicemen would do well in an adverse environment, but the combatant skillset does not directly transfer. frankly, i would say that my long experience as a bar manager leaves me much more prepared to deal with structure-absent personal dynamics than the average serviceman. if the martians attack, i want every former infantryman that i can find. but a SUT expert isn't going to be of much use while bartering for commodities, developing an economy, or delivering a baby.

self-defense skills are a very important subset of preparedness, but they remain exactly that--a subset.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:22:58 PM EDT
No .mil but am a LEO also served as a paramedic and fire fighter as well as rescue technician. With that being said I have no idea how I would respond to TEOTWAWKI I'm hoping for the improvise, adapt, overcome but from being in some situations I realize you will never truly know how you or anyone else will respond until the situation presents itself and each situation is different. I also recognize that a lot of people on this site and others have a lot more experience and knowledge then I do. Sorry guess I don't see my LEO training being a substitute for experience in other situations my other emergency services probably would have equal or greater meaning in these situations.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:24:49 PM EDT
With some of the idiots I went through USMC bootcamp and infantry school with its amazing to me they made it.

I trust my friends and family more than those morons who had never shot a rifle until bootcamp.

I would think that growing up rural and learning the basics is worth far more than your average city dweller who went into the armed forces IMO.


Link Posted: 12/4/2007 7:28:45 PM EDT
I'll call Karate man if i need any advice
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 8:02:09 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:36:41 PM EDT
"Upham, more ammo!"
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 9:49:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 9:52:52 PM EDT by RUSSIANCATKILLA]
I'll whip out my taza wit beamz and go on a tazin spree
Then Disappear and eat pie
Then get some pie
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 10:38:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2007 11:41:51 PM EDT by BillofRights]
I'm ex mil, and I enforce the law with my kids all the time. The two occupations that you listed are not really any more relevant than many others.

Doing the right thing is nothing more than Thinking before you act. Train, anticipate problems, pay attention to the details, Think rationally. Control your emotions.
Link Posted: 12/4/2007 11:51:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 45stops-em-quick:
Not getting into my own particulars, but as others have said, .mil or LE training will not prepare you for SHTF. Military training is based primarily on giving you the skills needed to follow orders in the job you have. If that job is Recon or Special Forces, then great, if it's a mechanic in the AF, then your training is not going to give you any advantage over a civilian aircraft mechanic. LE training trains people to go out and arrest people, not to improvise, adapt and overcome. All those NOPD guys and gals who ran or looted during Katrina sure weren't prepared. The bottom line is that you will react according to how you prepare. My buddy's Mr. Supercop, attached to fedgov taskforces, tac team, etc. but can't fix something simple in his own house. Most cops on the street know what they know, and then know how to call for someone who knows more.


SOME military training is based on the need to follow orders, but not all of it. If you stay in long enough to become an NCO, or you go Ranger, Special Forces, or even Airborne, you get a LOT of training on initiative, and doing what needs to be done in the absence of orders.
Remember that scene in We Were Soldiers where the Battalion Commander tells the guys they need to learn the job of the guy above them? That's the reason. Some other countries' military forces may not operate that way, but the US military is BIG on taking the initiative.
I'd expect in most SHTF situations to see luck playing a large part in who survives initially(depending of course on what happens). Of course, they do say in the military(and elsewhere) that you make some of your luck. Chance favors the prepared mind.
After the initial phase, though, I think luck will become less of a factor and people making the right decisions at the right time will become more important.(as will people making the wrong decisions ). Who stays alive longer would probably end up being a combination of many factors.
Link Posted: 12/5/2007 1:29:07 AM EDT
Too many wars to comment but anyone really on this site with an AR should do fine
Link Posted: 12/5/2007 5:01:31 AM EDT
As long as SHTF holds off for another 6 months or so, I should do ok :P
Link Posted: 12/5/2007 5:05:13 AM EDT
Simple. I will do whatever I need to do in order to survive. I would expect anyone else to do the same. It's a waste of time to sit around and bet on the odds of survival.
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