The post that was made about he marine getting hit in the head with a pipe from behind makes a very valid point.  We can't go it alone.  I for one would start packing up with others like dogs in the wild do.  If you have buddies that will get your back you have a much higher chance of survival.  

I know how to hunt.  I'd learn how to trap since that would produce much more food than hunting alone.  My father knows how to work the land.  The women know how to cook.  We'd also get the neighbors involved to try to establish a close knit society.  

A lot of neighborhoods would self destruct once the law broke down.  No one likes anyone in a lot of these neighborhoods.  If you live in one of those it is best to leave immediately following the SHTF.

I guess that's my initial mindset and reaction to a breakdown of society and the law.

ETA:  I GOT PAGE 3!!!

Quoted: I'll call Karate man if i need any advice

Karate Man says to find some Eskimo chicks if the SHTF.  They can kick ass and provide the ice cream pie.

I will eat any kind of pie I like.

 Hey!!! who moved my thread?????

Quoted:  Hey!!! who moved my thread?????

I had nothing to do with the move but it's better suited for GD than SF.

Quoted: Quoted:  Hey!!! who moved my thread????? I had nothing to do with the move but it's better suited for GD than SF.

But where's my poll????  God dammit!!!

 PUT MY POLL BACK!!!!

Hopefully I won't react like some of the coward cops in New Orleans after Katrina.

I shoot roughly 500-1000 rounds a week.  Alot .22, but also alot in .308, .44mag, .45ACP.

I run every other day, and work out every morning.  I can run 2 miles, and shoot my gun like I didn't move a finger.

Thats the best I can do.

I will do poorly, but I will go down fighting.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:  Hey!!! who moved my thread????? I had nothing to do with the move but it's better suited for GD than SF. But where's my poll????  God dammit!!!

Shit I don't know.

Quoted: I'd expect in most SHTF situations to see luck playing a large part in who survives initially(depending of course on what happens). Of course, they do say in the military(and elsewhere) that you make some of your luck. Chance favors the prepared mind. After the initial phase, though, I think luck will become less of a factor and people making the right decisions at the right time will become more important.(as will people making the wrong decisions ). Who stays alive longer would probably end up being a combination of many factors.

Yup.  I don't care how badass you are, a fatal dose of radiation is a fatal dose of radiation.  

The biggest component in TEOTWAWAKI is the infrastructure that supplied us with food, water, and shelter is gone.  No more chow hall, no more supermarkets.  I don't know numbers, but probably all of LE and all but the smallest minority of super-hardcore .mil have the training or experience there.

That said, .mil or LE probably weeded out some of the sissies, so from a percentage standpoint, the group would fare better then say hairdressers or interior designers.  But chances of survival will depend on the individual.

Without hospitals or medicine a cool head will do you more good than an itchy trigger finger.

Former Boy Scout here, I'm still prepared.

Quoted: USMC....now just observing

+1

Yea, cause SFC Samiqua Washinton(totally made up name) the S1 NCOIC of the 3589th Finance Battalion has all that survival training as part of her job...........

I'm not leaving Mom's basement.

.

If you are not .mil or Leo you are alittle behind the curve usually and typically because you don't have the range time or the phyical fitness typically found in the aformentioned disaplines.

Um most cops and military don't get to shoot that much in training.

Not saying I am better than them, but I probably shoot a lot more.

not sure what your point is - but I know the most prissy candy ass schmuch who is was in the army. Also know someone who is in the navy - (my brother n law) who probably couldnt even pitch a tent by himself he is that uncoordinated - so not sure if .mil experience helps in the example your posting.

now, as far as leo - ive only seen a few of them that had any sense

But leos will have a pluside/upside cause their cars have slashing lights

I am a former U.S. Peace Corps Volunteer. I lived for 2+ years with NO electric, NO safe drinking water (no indoor running water for that matter) NO 911 services, NO personal transportation (other than my feet) NO communications other than a SW receiver and snail mail so slow it made "The Postman (Kevin Costner)" look like Federal Express. I have assisted in flood recovery efforts, been kicked off the Tibetan Border by the Chinese Army (I kinda deserved that) and been places were it didn't matter how much money you had there simply wasn't ANY food to eat! I have visited the Tibetan and Bhutanese refugee camps (seriously, don't ever allow yourself to become a refugee) and I have had gangsters, corrupt foreign cops and the Chinese army point guns at me at some time or another (which gave me a huge "real world" appreciation for the 2A). I have seen death and disease. I have heard new mothers wail through the night clutching their dead infant (who died from something so simple to treat in a 1st world nation) and learned that if you are waiting for for fairness and justice in this life you are going to have a very long wait!

I am not a "tough guy" and certainly not an "operator" in any sense of the word. Weapons training is my weak point but if I am ever attacked by a piece of paper standing still in good light at 25m-100m I can handle that I definately need more and better personal defense training but I am no sheeple.


Frankly, while .mil & LEO training/experience are going to be great assets in a SHTF situation they are not going to guarantee survival (neither is my experience).

When it "hits the fan" many will crumble, some will rise to the occasion but most will simply do the best they can with what they got (skills & resources) for as long as they are able. Fortune, my friends, will deal most of the cards.

Mind over matter.

Quoted:  Hey!!! who moved my thread?????

Looks like it wasn't up to SF standards....

Perhaps it was your crossposting whoring of it in GD that led someone to that conclusion.

Quoted: Quoted:  Hey!!! who moved my thread????? Looks like it wasn't up to SF standards.... Perhaps it was your crossposting whoring of it in GD that led someone to that conclusion.

I heard that they have a Survival Forum Assessment and Selection for all Threads in SF,

So  your a nogo at SFAS, and will never make it to SF

With all due respect, I'm a bit confused as to what makes someone with LEO training more likely to be able to survive SHTF than your average arfcommer?  Certainly LEOs have guns and the fact that they have a network of LEO buddies is a big asset.  But arfcommers have guns too and like to practice with them.  Your average LEO shoots maybe twice a year.  And LEO standards aren't that high.  LEO's maybe have some disaster training but probably very little official training in survival.

Knowledge, training, preparation, and practice are key.  Some have it.  Some don't.  I don't think it matters too much where you get it from.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:  Hey!!! who moved my thread????? Looks like it wasn't up to SF standards.... Perhaps it was your crossposting whoring of it in GD that led someone to that conclusion. I heard that they have a Survival Forum Assessment and Selection for all Threads in SF, So  your a nogo at SFAS, and will never make it to SF

Why on Earth are we dealing with a Survival Forum topic in GD?

Why on Earth am I seeing more and more folks using the avatar pics of longstanding members? I'm getting confused as to who I am talking to.

Quoted: Farm boy, spend alot of my time outdoors, also athletic, EMT/FF, know surrounding land very well. All around jack of trades. Know my tools: weaknesses - pluses. And the biggest thing level headed, with a touch of coldness. Other than that hope for alot of luck.

No EMT/FF, but the rest applies.

I was raised by wolves... err... lawyers actually.

Quoted: Why on Earth are we dealing with a Survival Forum topic in GD? Why on Earth am I seeing more and more folks using the avatar pics of longstanding members? I'm getting confused as to who I am talking to.

Eta...Nevermind...I'm supposed to be a better poster ...Sorry!!

Quoted: I'm a veteran and don't see where being .mil or LEO will prepare you for SHTF or TEOTWAWKI. I know lots of LEO's,( and am related to a couple), aren't ready for anything. And lots of guys in the .mil were just doing a job, not doing anything close to survival skills. Most of them wouldn't know what to do without a chow hall to go to. Anyway my growing poor as dirt on a reservation may actually been some of my best prep experiance I have recieved.

I agree. The .mil experience implies a minimal skill level.

There is a more significant advantage when setting up a team. There is synergy in a team of .mil types, even if as indiviuals they are not impressive.

I'd outfit my "team" with various and sundry weapons, few of which are compatible. Then, I'd call Heavy Six to make us some pancakes.

Quoted: Quoted: i fail to see the relevency.  As survival is a mindset, any one can have it, regardless of profession.  People arent just gonna eat a gun because they arent soldiers or cops. Then tell us what your mindset is. Many of the hardcore posters on Arfcom think that if you're not Military or LEO's you don't have a chance!!!  So, do you???

I've got a chance because if I don't think I do, I'll get whacked early and let my family down. Plus it would be highly embarrassing to plan for all this stuff but then die 30 seconds after the poop hits the fan.

You sure do seem preoccupied with SHTF...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: i fail to see the relevency.  As survival is a mindset, any one can have it, regardless of profession.  People arent just gonna eat a gun because they arent soldiers or cops. Then tell us what your mindset is. Many of the hardcore posters on Arfcom think that if you're not Military or LEO's you don't have a chance!!!  So, do you??? I've got a chance because if I don't think I do, I'll get whacked early and let my family down. Plus it would be highly embarrassing to plan for all this stuff but then die 30 seconds after the poop hits the fan. You sure do seem preoccupied with SHTF...

Yeah...Katrina sort of took it out of fanatasy land to me!!!

.

LEO will survive untill he tries to take guns away form people.

That leave Mil.

Quoted: to a real SHTF? And if you think you will do OK, plse tell why.

No way to know until it happens, so pointless to speculate.

Quoted: Quoted: to a real SHTF? And if you think you will do OK, plse tell why. No way to know until it happens, so pointless to speculate.

OK then!

I banged a chick who is now a Marine

I got a bj from a chick who works part time doing dispatch for the popo

I believe these experiences have infused me with enough badassness to make up for my civilian proclivity to cry and piss down my leg

Quoted: I banged a chick who is now a Marine I got a bj from a chick who works part time doing dispatch for the popo I believe these experiences have infused me with enough badassness to make up for my civilian proclivity to cry and piss down my leg

I don't have mil experience.  But I have SHTF experience several times over.

You can't train for SHTF, they are all different.  And you can't factor in such things as LEO/GOV going crazy as they did with Katrina, disarming the good folks, beating up old ladies, while the bad ran free and participating in looting themselves.  Woulda thunkit?

In SHTF you cannot depend on anyone but yourself.  You will have to be coldhearted.  You and your family first.

Thats kind of a strange question w/o a definitive answer. Why do people think that someone that is previous .mil or leo has some kind of great advantage in a SHTF scenario?

I've never been either, but heres my analysis based on my own experience/observations. My little brother is LEO for about 10 yrs and I'm pretty sure he can handle himself although I have help him shrink his ego sometimes(usually after a few beers). My sister-in-law(not married to brother - wifes sister) has been LEO for about 15 yrs in Chicago area and has fired her weapon twice in the line of duty and by her own admission out a pure terror and couldn't hit a semi truck. Then there is my step dad, retired after 20 yrs in the Navy mostly as a recruiter. I've shot with him twice and he couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag. He is also previous small town LEO (ie no official police acadamy training) for a couple years. Then my sister was Navy and definitely LSHD. Lastly, there are my 2 brother in laws who are combat vets with the 101st and after shooting with them I am glad they are on our side. Well thats not really all but good enough, the point is just being .mil or leo doesn't mean shit. I don't know what the % might be but I would say a high % of them do very little actual combat training outside of basic(of course % is probably lower for marines).

Also, I've spent a lot of time with LEO's from various depts. around the country and what I have found is that there are only about 10-15% of a dept that actually shoot guns outside of the occasional qualification or seek any combat/tactical training outside of their police acadamy training. To a majority that I have known well in my lifetime(maybe 100 or so) it is just a job nothing more and they certainly don't view things the way many of us here might.

Sorry for long windedness, but the point is very few of leos or .mils that I have known are like my brother or brother in laws. So the majority I believe have less tactical experience that those of us here that have taken many classes taught by people like my BIL's and practice those skills regularly.

Again, this is just my OWN experience, YMMV.

that might be more than .02 worth

btw, as I'm typing this my wife just walked in with a box full of goodies from wally world to send to the troops Man, I sure got a good one.

Quoted: I banged a chick who is now a Marine I got a bj from a chick who works part time doing dispatch for the popo I believe these experiences have infused me with enough badassness to make up for my civilian proclivity to cry and piss down my leg

Quoted: Thats kind of a strange question w/o a definitive answer. Why do people think that someone that is previous .mil or leo has some kind of great advantage in a SHTF scenario? I've never been either, but heres my analysis based on my own experience/observations. My little brother is LEO for about 10 yrs and I'm pretty sure he can handle himself although I have help him shrink his ego sometimes(usually after a few beers). My sister-in-law(not married to brother - wifes sister) has been LEO for about 15 yrs in Chicago area and has fired her weapon twice in the line of duty and by her own admission out a pure terror and couldn't hit a semi truck. Then there is my step dad, retired after 20 yrs in the Navy mostly as a recruiter. I've shot with him twice and he couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag. He is also previous small town LEO (ie no official police acadamy training) for a couple years. Then my sister was Navy and definitely LSHD. Lastly, there are my 2 brother in laws who are combat vets with the 101st and after shooting with them I am glad they are on our side. Well thats not really all but good enough, the point is just being .mil or leo doesn't mean shit. I don't know what the % might be but I would say a high % of them do very little actual combat training outside of basic(of course % is probably lower for marines). Also, I've spent a lot of time with LEO's from various depts. around the country and what I have found is that there are only about 10-15% of a dept that actually shoot guns outside of the occasional qualification or seek any combat/tactical training outside of their police acadamy training. To a majority that I have known well in my lifetime(maybe 100 or so) it is just a job nothing more and they certainly don't view things the way many of us here might. Sorry for long windedness, but the point is very few of leos or .mils that I have known are like my brother or brother in laws. So the majority I believe have less tactical experience that those of us here that have taken many classes taught by people like my BIL's and practice those skills regularly. Again, this is just my OWN experience, YMMV. that might be more than .02 worth btw, as I'm typing this my wife just walked in with a box full of goodies from wally world to send to the troops Man, I sure got a good one.

I'm neither .mil or LEO and I expect to be the equivalent of Tina Turner in Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome after the apocalypse.  Large and in charge, bitches.  

I've been shooting/hunting/camping since I was a wee boy, and I'm not the type to quiver in fear over anything I can imagine--and that includes zombie hordes, extra-terrestrial invaders and Canadians.  I've worked on boats, serviced & maintained automobiles, built my own home, maintained computer networks and generally developed a well rounded set of valuable post-apocalypse skills.  If nothing else, I'll kill them with overconfidence.  

I would expect a decent showing from the US .mil during the SHTF phase of TEOTWAWKI, and wouldn't be surprised if the remnants of the US .mil turned out to be friends of the people and not the JBTs some imagine they could become.  Some .mil individuals would lose it, but the .mil leadership is generally capable and not a bunch of pants-wetters, IMO.  Unfortunately, I would expect most LEO to piss and/or shit themselves, faint like Scarlett O'Hara and generally behave like most of the sheeple they 'protect'.  

In a short-term SHTF scenario, Katrina style, I don't expect to have to 'react' in any significant way.  I hunker down and wait it out.  I am the invisible man.  

In a long-term, TEOTWAWKI scanario, the SHTF phase will be probably the end of my respect for authority.  Depending on the scenario, I'm probably still the invisible man--with an SPR.  

Quoted: I'm neither .mil or LEO and I expect to be the equivalent of Tina Turner in Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome after the apocalypse.  Large and in charge, bitches.   I've been shooting/hunting/camping since I was a wee boy, and I'm not the type to quiver in fear over anything I can imagine--and that includes zombie hordes, extra-terrestrial invaders and Canadians.  I've worked on boats, serviced & maintained automobiles, built my own home, maintained computer networks and generally developed a well rounded set of valuable post-apocalypse skills.  If nothing else, I'll kill them with overconfidence.   I would expect a decent showing from the US .mil during the SHTF phase of TEOTWAWKI, and wouldn't be surprised if the remnants of the US .mil turned out to be friends of the people and not the JBTs some imagine they could become.  Some .mil individuals would lose it, but the .mil leadership is generally capable and not a bunch of pants-wetters, IMO.  Unfortunately, I would expect most LEO to piss and/or shit themselves, faint like Scarlett O'Hara and generally behave like most of the sheeple they 'protect'.   In a short-term SHTF scenario, Katrina style, I don't expect to have to 'react' in any significant way.  I hunker down and wait it out.  I am the invisible man.   In a long-term, TEOTWAWKI scanario, the SHTF phase will be probably the end of my respect for authority.  Depending on the scenario, I'm probably still the invisible man--with an SPR.

Thankyou...Well said!

.

I grew up in Queens NYC during mayor Dinkins term.


shit was froggy to say the least.

Quoted: I grew up in Queens NYC during mayor Dinkins term. shit was froggy to say the least.

Were you there during the big power failure?

Quoted: Quoted: I grew up in Queens NYC during mayor Dinkins term. shit was froggy to say the least. Were you there during the big power failure?

Negative, but was there during the big government failure.

crack was king!
when I lived in Jackson heights, during breakfast we would catalog the weapon reports we heard from the previous evening.

me "I heard 2 shot gun blasts followed by a volley of 10-12 9mm or .380 shots"
grandpaw: "definatly not a .380" pass the jelly.

I could tell some stories, and straight thread jack this MFer.
but I wont.