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Posted: 9/6/2004 1:30:11 AM EST
and american civilians fought back by gathering on the streets and engaging them with firearms, what are the chances the civilians would be arrested for gunning down armed islamic extremists(i.e. AKs and the usual bag of explosives etc)?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:33:43 AM EST
Very good, unless our cops and mil were overwelmed.

S.O.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:34:50 AM EST
I doubt that we would be charged, especially in conservative states. Kalifornia, youre on your own. I think we would assemble some serious firepower and hardware. Better equiped and in some cases better trained then the mob that the Russians had.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:35:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and american civilians fought back by gathering on the streets and engaging them with firearms, what are the chances the civilians would be arrested for gunning down armed islamic extremists(i.e. AKs and the usual bag of explosives etc)?





They can't arrest what they don't see
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:35:27 AM EST
WTF??? You would be arrested for using firearms and be sued by the families of the extremists...Damn, that's a stupid question...
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:37:56 AM EST
ok then let me be more specific, what about in a place like tx? not in that communist dump you live in.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:39:50 AM EST
dude, your lawyers suck..that's all...
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:40:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 1:41:06 AM EST by schornstinefager]

Originally Posted By John91498:
WTF??? You would be arrested for using firearms and be sued by the families of the extremists...Damn, that's a stupid question...

taint it the truth
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:42:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 1:43:14 AM EST by AR-10]
The A-Team's efforts would be heavily frowned upon.
George Peppard would be thrown in jail and sued.

Mr. T would be shown some leniency.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:45:24 AM EST
If the extremists were armed as you describe, I would say the citizens would get medals. In a true battle situation the rules change. It's not like you would be stopping the average street crime in a real military style battle.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 1:48:52 AM EST
[Jeff Foxworthy voice]

In Texas, they would make it a sport...

[/JF v]
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 2:29:21 AM EST
It would not behoove them to attempt such stupidity in Virginia since it is still a free Commonwealth; self defense is not prosecuted as a crime here under such circumstances.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 2:36:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By John91498:
WTF??? You would be arrested for using firearms and be sued by the families of the extremists...Damn, that's a stupid question...



i'll be sure to do my best to make sure they don't have a family left to sue me then....

-Roth
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 2:45:17 AM EST
The police would arrive after the battle and arrest and charge all the survieors. Then it would be a matter of who had the best witnesses. In the meanwhile you would be in jail under a large bail.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 2:46:03 AM EST
who was that masked man?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:01:58 AM EST
At that point, if all else was lost, I would probably die by my own hand rather than be prosecuted by the establishment/Islamic sympathizers for defending my family and my country.

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:04:00 AM EST
in texas you'd be in the shit if you didnt shoot back!
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:07:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 3:08:18 AM EST by tequilabob]
happened in texas agaisnt one lone gunman


www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/whitman/tower_6.html?sect=8

By now word of what was happening had spread, and police began returning fire toward the Tower, trying to pick off Charlie as he rose up over the parapet to take aim. Citizens went home and got their own guns, and hundreds of shots chipped away at the Tower in the next hour. Charlie began shooting through the rainspouts on each side of the building, making himself virtually impossible to hit. He switched guns from time to time. The greater part of his killing had been done in his first twenty minutes on the observation deck, but he was not finished. Over 500 yards to the South, city electricians Solon McCown and Roy Dell Schmidt parked their truck and joined a group of reporters and spectators. They huddled behind cars for safety. Schmidt, probably thinking that they were out of range, stood up. He was hit in the abdomen, and was dead ten minutes later.

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:08:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and american civilians fought back by gathering on the streets and engaging them with firearms, what are the chances the civilians would be arrested for gunning down armed islamic extremists(i.e. AKs and the usual bag of explosives etc)?



Self defense is self defense.

If the Mohammed Bomb and Murder Brigades show up in my town and start shooting, I will react to protect my family and friends and my town if I am in the effected area. If this means dead terrorists, (and it probably will, because knowing their proclivities I am prone to consider them a threat so long as they breathe, thus I would take appropriate action to ensure that they no longer draw breath...), so be it.

I am not particularly worried about the consequences, as I feel a local jury of my peers would be more inclined to give me a medal than to fry me.

Besides, God, the one True God, Jehovah, is with me. I have nothing to fear from men.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:10:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and american civilians fought back by gathering on the streets and engaging them with firearms, what are the chances the civilians would be arrested for gunning down armed islamic extremists(i.e. AKs and the usual bag of explosives etc)?



Good Question. We'll just have to wait and see.

Be Prepared
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:23:21 AM EST
I gotta believe that unless it was an all out civil war we would be screwed. Isolated incidents of civil unrest are not going to excuse us for taking to the streets with our black rifles and cleaning house. A few riots spread thoughout the coutry would be met with the national gaurd, backing up the local police forces.....and ALL civilians would be thrown in jail.

Now, if we are talking outright revolt...every city is in flames, and the unrest is spilling over into the suburbs...and millions are engaged in battle, I think the story may be a little different.

Either way, Im shooting first and answering questions last. I dont see myself taking to the streets playing Punisher...I will just camp out in my home taking up a position where I can see what is happening on and around my property. Anyone that crosses the line with bad intentions will meet supression...and thats a fact.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:26:11 AM EST
Locked
Or at least the first 4 posters told me when I posted something similar.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:29:42 AM EST
Coming from a rural area, I just can't see it happening.

I don't see many people in an urban area, where an attack would be, having very many tools of the trade to fight back with.

If it happened in certain states, Texas for instance, and the terrorists were deemed to be doing some evil, I don't see any judgement coming down upon the citizens who fight.

- BG
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:37:25 AM EST
I wouldn't venture out of my immediate vicinity to look for it. If my abode or one of my close neighbor's came under fire so that there was some sort of damage to property I could use as evidence, I would definitely look to return fire.

I wouldn't wander around with a gun. After the shit the Arabs are going to claim that they were innocent victims protecting themselves from vigilantes. Leaving your house armed and seeking out action won't look good.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:41:12 AM EST
Would the ACLU get special helmets like the UN?
I can see it now....decent people defending the homeland, and the ACLU running around in APC's taking video so that they can defend the criminals later.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:41:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 3:42:23 AM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:

and american civilians fought back by gathering on the streets and engaging them with firearms, what are the chances the civilians would be arrested for gunning down armed islamic extremists(i.e. AKs and the usual bag of explosives etc)?




110%


Most likely you'd be shot by the Po-Po as one of the terrorists
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:49:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and american civilians fought back by gathering on the streets and engaging them with firearms, what are the chances the civilians would be arrested for gunning down armed islamic extremists(i.e. AKs and the usual bag of explosives etc)?


Every states laws have in them a definition of what constitutes justifiable use of deadly physical force. As long as your use of force fell within those guidelines, you would legally be fine. You might face civil suits from the relatives after the fact, but criminally you would be covered.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:11:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 4:33:55 AM EST by Oslow]
Yeah, arrested, sued, lawyers, judges, a diverse jury, take all my guns and all my money.

Screw that. I'll protect myself and my family; watch the action on TV.


I want to add that I will be cheering for you LEOs and don't hesitate to come by if you need a rifle or some ammo.

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:15:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:

and american civilians fought back by gathering on the streets and engaging them with firearms, what are the chances the civilians would be arrested for gunning down armed islamic extremists(i.e. AKs and the usual bag of explosives etc)?




110%


Most likely you'd be shot by the Po-Po as one of the terrorists



I wouldn't be surprised.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:26:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and american civilians fought back by gathering on the streets and engaging them with firearms, what are the chances the civilians would be arrested for gunning down armed islamic extremists(i.e. AKs and the usual bag of explosives etc)?



Depends ENTIRELY on what state you are in.

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:30:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:38:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By RELOADER-BOB:
The police would arrive after the battle and arrest and charge all the survieors. Then it would be a matter of who had the best witnesses. In the meanwhile you would be in jail under a large bail.



"I don't think I'm going to let you arrest us today, Behan."

If it was a small battle there would be talk of prosecution of the populus invovled. If they raise their voice that talk would likely amount to nothing more.

If it were a big battle there would be talk of heroism.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:39:47 AM EST
Time to play cowboys and terrorists.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:39:51 AM EST
it would depend upon circumstances. in the 80's at the miami race riots the police were unable to stop people from going into the riot areas (armed). except for the first couple of people shot (white) the majority of shooting "victims" were black. if the "street battle" were to take place across a large enough area it would be difficult to monitor. surveillance technologies have improved but…
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 4:49:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 4:54:58 AM EST by tangeant]
Look at how many armed citzens showed up for the Hollywood Bank shootout ! I would agree that some trigger happy moron cop would shoot ya dead if you should up all ninja'd out ready to ( help )play !
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:02:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 5:06:41 AM EST by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:

and american civilians fought back by gathering on the streets and engaging them with firearms, what are the chances the civilians would be arrested for gunning down armed islamic extremists(i.e. AKs and the usual bag of explosives etc)?




110%


Most likely you'd be shot by the Po-Po as one of the terrorists



Thats one of the reasons I won't use an AK as a SHTF. If the bad gus have AK's, and you have an AK, friendly fire could be a little bit of a problem.

But a crazy white guy waving an AR-15/AR-10/Mossberg 500 yelling "die you mother fuckers die!" while wearing a Busweiser shirt is unmistakable.

ETA: [Larry The Cable Guy] Now that's tactical right there I don't care who you are. [/Larry The Cable Guy]
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:13:55 AM EST
Stalk and snipe... if all hell is breaking loose chances are you would not get identified.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:17:28 AM EST
You'd be tried, convicted and sentenced based upon harsher "Hate Crime" statutes. The terrorists would go free as victims of YOUR "Hate Crime".

Any questions?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:19:02 AM EST
Looks like all the Bobs wanna answer this one.
Im an attorney and passingly familiar with the self defense laws of the great state of Texas. Leaving aside the question of whether terrorists taking over a school is a "SHTF" situation ( a useful analysis if you're trying to figure what's gonna hapen to you, legally, after its over), I will tell you with one hundred percent confidence that you are not going to have time to sort thru the ramifications of Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal Code as you are lining up the crosshairs on Abdullard. If you pull the trigger on another human being, you'd better be right, though.
Second, the disaster preparedness guy for our schools is a police officer whose judgment I trust 100%. He might shoot ME if I showed up loaded for bear. And, hell he might be right. He is trained; I'm not. My efforts could very easily result in needless extra death.
All that said, if they come here, and take one of our schools, you bet your ass I'll be there. I know some GOOD lawyers. heh, heh, heh.
I CANNOT beleive any Texas jury would find me liable.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:26:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:27:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Oslow:
Yeah, arrested, sued, lawyers, judges, a diverse jury, take all my guns and all my money.
Screw that. I'll protect myself and my family; watch the action on TV.


I want to add that I will be cheering for you LEOs and don't hesitate to come by if you need a rifle or some ammo.



I'd act the same way I acted when 50 or so 'bangers and wannabees were partying
across the street a few weeks back: I watched the fun with my AR in hand, as the coppers
came and went....5 times.

CKMorley


Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:33:24 AM EST
This thread has brough up some interesting points.

I think having an AK as your SHTF rifle IS a bad idea, for obvious reasons.

Secondly, methinks having a beard and being ninjaed out is a poor idea also.

I've had a beard since I was a freshman in high school. I got some funky irish genes somewhere and the bastard turned a different color.

Anyhoo, it does bother me that a beard is a common profiling aspect against terrorists (in the event that it comes to bite me in the ass) . Do i think it is BAD that it is used?... NOPE.


SO.... AKs not a good idea. Beards will get you profiled. and looking uver-tactical is a good way to get whacked.

Anything to add to the list?

- BG


(Quite frankly, i think busting out a cowboy hat is the best way to avoid getting mistaken)

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:35:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
I wouldn't be surprised.


and it would be your fellow liberals calling for the defenders heads
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:44:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

(Quite frankly, i think busting out a cowboy hat is the best way to avoid getting mistaken)





And one of those BIG foam fingers
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 5:48:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 6:34:54 AM EST
In CA if you HAPPEN to already be there say picking up your kids or whatnot and you just HAPPEN to have your SPR Mark 12 Mod 0 with your brand new, just sighted in U.S. Optics MST-100 USMC Sniper Scope and mag load of 168 Grain Federal Gold Match BTHP, you would most like be prosecuted but probably not given any jail time (if your lawyer could prove that you were under attack and *defending* yourself)...then the AG would take you to court to take all your guns due to your prosecution.

Now if you 'heard' about the attack and then showed up at the school with your guns at then killed one of the terrorist (and saved countless lives in the process), they would prosecute you AND throw you in jail AND take all your guns because it was "pre-meditated". Then you'd have several civil lawsuits against you (to take the last few items you owned) by the families of the terrorist while you're getting butt-raped in prision.

In the meanwhile, all the left-wing hippy liberal fucks would be out in front of the Federal Building on Wilshire and on various street corners asking for the death penality FOR YOU because you killed "peaceful" Islamic people who had to shoot at you because you "the gun nut" tried to attack them...then they would also be protesting the sunset of the AWB showing this event as PROOF POSITIVE that M16's, AK-47, UZI's, etc. are just littering the streets of Los Angeles and that all guns should be banned.

Exaggerated...sure, a little bit...but not too far from the truth....this state is ALL ABOUT "Don't fight back, BE THE VICTIM!"
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 6:40:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 6:41:41 AM EST by captainpooby]
Ha ha! I got a down the nose look from a local cop just for protecting my neighborhood from looters last night. Good luck! You're on your own as far as support from LE is concerned. They'll probably shoot you first and RoPs later.

Edit for a capitol P.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 6:40:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
and american civilians fought back by gathering on the streets and engaging them with firearms, what are the chances the civilians would be arrested for gunning down armed islamic extremists(i.e. AKs and the usual bag of explosives etc)?



Self defense is self defense.

If the Mohammed Bomb and Murder Brigades show up in my town and start shooting, I will react to protect my family and friends and my town if I am in the effected area. If this means dead terrorists, (and it probably will, because knowing their proclivities I am prone to consider them a threat so long as they breathe, thus I would take appropriate action to ensure that they no longer draw breath...), so be it.

I am not particularly worried about the consequences, as I feel a local jury of my peers would be more inclined to give me a medal than to fry me.

Besides, God, the one True God, Jehovah, is with me. I have nothing to fear from men.



I don't want to open a can of worms, but depends on if yuo are in a duty to retreat state...
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 6:41:21 AM EST
www.nytimes.com/2004/09/06/international/europe/06russia.html


The window overlooked a lawn. Mr. Kanukov had rushed the wounded and dead from the school's grounds during the battle, risking his life along the edges of the lawn to carry them to waiting cars. He pointed out the wall outside where he had taken cover, just under the school's windows, and described a scene of human nature turned upside down: a woman shooting a man who was trying to save his children.

"So many bullets were flying that you could not even put your nose past here," he said, but one father could not control himself and ran across the grass to try to reach the school. He made it about 100 feet, was struck and fell down.

Then, as they watched him writhing and exposed, one of the women among the terrorists appeared above him.

"She was shooting from the window, finishing him," Mr. Kanukov said. "We saw how the bullets hit his body."


Any other questions?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 6:54:08 AM EST
It's not a matter of being prosecuted. It's a matter of fighting for your country. The subject was a street battle, not some random shooting. Bullets flying all over the place, people yelling. Bombs going off. Chaos. I'd certainly appreciate any help I could get. My kids are are all grown up now, but if my little grand daughter was being held hostage by the same kind of monsters that took over the Russian school, I'd be there and I'd be armed. We are talking about our families here and our homeland. I've been a cop a long time and I know the difference between a street shooting and all out war. So do most of us here. I don't believe that anyone who has complained about being sued or arrested would even consider that if their flesh and blood were in danger.

What would you say afterward? Would you look down at your dying child and tell her that you would have tried to save her but you didn't want to take the chance of getting arrested?

Yeah...I bet you would. You'd all be right in there and you know it.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 7:09:41 AM EST
If it came down to war on the streets, the cops have already lost control. It's not quite everyman for himself but one thing, bring bacon, stuff it into the mouths of their dead (or pour pig grease from bacon over the body parts) and videotape it and distribute it so their friends, relatives and associates know they're not going to Paradise. Yours in compassion, peace loving 4v50.
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