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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:19:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 4:45:55 PM EST by NY_crawler]
We have been looking at backup software and everything seems pretty expensive. I am not impressed with Symantec, an have looked at Appasure, netvault and Acronis. Nothing has really jumped out at me.

We have about 125 VMs and 8 physical servers we need to backup. We are also a mixed Windows and Linux environment and the VMs are on Vmware 5.1. We also will be doing disk to disk as we don't have the people to be swapping tape at night and disk is just easier.

What do you run and what are the pros and cons of your backup solution?

ETA: Just looking to backup servers and not clients.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:21:16 PM EST
Avamar, sadly.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:24:05 PM EST
They just installed CrashPlan on all our machines. They backup like every 10-15 min so most of the older PCs grind to a halt. The best part is that they only backup your users directory. None of the important shit is backed up. Of course you can't change it either. So I suppose it's a good thing that we can get our browser favorites back but it's not very helpful beyond that.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:25:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 4:26:24 PM EST by TigerHawk]
Veeam, Acronis, Backup Executive.

Veeam for VMs, go download their trial.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:26:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By NY_crawler:
We have been looking at backup software and everything seems pretty expensive. I am not impressed with Symantec, an have looked at Appasure, netvault and Acronis. Nothing has really jumped out at me.

We have about 125 VMs and 8 physical servers we need to backup. We are also a mixed Windows and Linux environment and the VMs are on Vmware 5.1. We also will be doing disk to disk as we don't have the people to be swapping tape at night and disk is just easier.

What do you run and what are the pros and cons of your backup solution?
View Quote


Are you guys an sccm shop? If so I think ms has a data protector app as well.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:28:22 PM EST
We're a NetBackup shop.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:29:05 PM EST
Veeam for VMware.

MS DPM isn't bad if you are using System Center across the stack already. But it's sweet spot is on Hyper-V.

Why haven't you switched to Hyper-V ?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:30:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 4:31:04 PM EST by TigerHawk]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Veeam for VMware.

MS DPM isn't bad if you are using System Center across the stack already. But it's sweet spot is on Hyper-V.

Why haven't you switched to Hyper-V ?
View Quote


What benefit would switching to Hyper-V get him?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:35:48 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JaxShooter:
They just installed CrashPlan on all our machines. They backup like every 10-15 min so most of the older PCs grind to a halt. The best part is that they only backup your users directory. None of the important shit is backed up. Of course you can't change it either. So I suppose it's a good thing that we can get our browser favorites back but it's not very helpful beyond that.
View Quote
CrashPlan is good. It's what I use on all my machines. It has settings for things like only running when the machine is idle, and of course what files to backup. Sounds like your IT guys just didn't set it up right.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:36:57 PM EST
EMC Networker. One nice thing - with VMware, you can back up the virtual machines using a proxy host and the virtual machines don't eat a client license.

We do basic disk-disk-tape. The software has an annoying habit of deadlocking itself if you only have one tape drive, and it wants to stage off data while you're running a clone to tape. I advise at least two tape drives at all times.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:37:05 PM EST
IBM TSM...

We have a lot of data that is just written out and is then unchanged, so it works well for us. It's probably not ideal for everyone.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:38:26 PM EST
Linux and FreeBSD: Homegrown with shell scripts (hourly snapshots, using rsync and a bunch of other shit you're not interested in)

OSX: Time Machine

Win7: Backup and Restore

Win8: Windows 7 File Recovery

XP: I deserve to lose everything, and so do you. It's 2013. Knock it off.

My work shit is different.


Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:38:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:
Avamar, sadly.
View Quote

Why sadly? That was one I started looking at and EMC was pushing.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:39:28 PM EST
Two weeks notice.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:41:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TigerHawk:


What benefit would switching to Hyper-V get him?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TigerHawk:
Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Veeam for VMware.

MS DPM isn't bad if you are using System Center across the stack already. But it's sweet spot is on Hyper-V.

Why haven't you switched to Hyper-V ?


What benefit would switching to Hyper-V get him?



Hyper-V is essentially free. So no VMware licensing. When you license a virtualization host for Windows Server, you are paying for the licenses already for the VM's running on it (datacenter licensing allows for unlimited VM's). Therefore - if you use Hyper-V you don't have all the VMware costs.

With the savings, you could look at licensing all of System Center, which provides full virtualization management, private cloud, patch management, monitoring, application insight, self service portals, incident management, enterprise backup/protection, IT automation and orchestration, etc.....

Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:41:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dwshel:
We're a NetBackup shop.
View Quote


Same, came from Backup Exec, but you didn't want Symantec. I can understand as their support is, to say the least, underwhelming.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:44:26 PM EST
I use allwaysync to sync folders/files and Acronis for complete hardrive images.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:54:47 PM EST
The back room guy just swiched from Backup Exec to something called "Backula" (open source)

I think the reason was Linux partitions becoming corrupted as they were backed up. (The backup, not the original.)

Though, one should sit down and plan out what needs to be backed up, what priority, how often, and how and who should be able to get it back before buying software.

In general, backup software sucks. In some cases, there's a weekly task for us to go in and do things as backups. Monday morning, copy xyz, restart this thing and while it's offline, back up that. Don't be afraid to use a human task if you don't have an automatic solution. Something done two weeks ago by a human is better than nothing done by malfunctioning software.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:02:52 PM EST
XCOPY DOS, bitches...
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:08:08 PM EST
Tar, rsync, ssh.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:08:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 5:10:02 PM EST by Timanator]
Dropbox/Gdrive


JK, depending on your VM contract there is a lite version of Vm backup you can use if Snapshots are ok for you. Other than that Veeam is the other big Snapshot/backup provider.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:26:06 PM EST
Vranger or Veeam depending on your preferences.
Vranger will now do physical backups as well, but I haven't ran that yet so you're on your own there.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:26:59 PM EST
Virtual Environment? Can't recommend Veeam enough.. Backup Exec is ok. Networker sucks (and I'm an EMC engineer). Avamar is on the expensive side...
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:28:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 5:29:56 PM EST by mgw24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Veeam for VMware.

MS DPM isn't bad if you are using System Center across the stack already. But it's sweet spot is on Hyper-V.

Why haven't you switched to Hyper-V ?
View Quote


Switch to Hyper-V from VMware?

VMware has a free hypervisor as well. Consolidation ratios and networking flexibility isn't even close with hyper-v.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:34:21 PM EST
Veeam, r1soft, bakula, Netapp snapvault + snapmirror
Also datto backup appliances which are terrible
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:34:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 6:11:31 PM EST by ken_mays]
We went from TSM to Networker, with a brief pause along the way to try out and discard Avamar.

I'm not sure Networker is a big improvement. They all pretty much suck in their own unique and outstanding ways.

ETA: we are still using Avamar to attempt to back up several thousand branch office servers. I'm not sure how well that project is going, but having some idea of the technical acumen of the folks involved with it, I'm not very sanguine about it.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:38:42 PM EST
Symantec Backup Exec System Recovery for a long time. Just moved to Datto which is local and it pushes a copy to the cloud. Oh yeah, then I got the hell out because they decided to outsource IT.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:39:57 PM EST
Check out Unitrends.... The have a unique offering.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:44:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TigerHawk:
Veeam, Acronis, Backup Executive.

Veeam for VMs, go download their trial.
View Quote


Just like my company, except for no Acronis.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:45:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Subnet:
Linux and FreeBSD: Homegrown with shell scripts (hourly snapshots, using rsync and a bunch of other shit you're not interested in)

OSX: Time Machine

Win7: Backup and Restore

Win8: Windows 7 File Recovery

XP: I deserve to lose everything, and so do you. It's 2013. Knock it off.

My work shit is different.

View Quote


Sub, when backing up OSX using Time Machine, do you back up using time capsule, or different hardware? Been reading lots of complaints about time capsule, and ready to start backing up a mall POS system...
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:47:14 PM EST
Floppy disks.... LOTS AND LOTS of floppy disks.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:52:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 5:52:50 PM EST by Foxxz]
Using a dell tape robot - powervault TL4000 with LTO5 tapes (48 tapes @ 1.5TB raw per tape) with an iSCSI interface. Software is bacula. Free and open source.

Tape rules.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:52:40 PM EST
Retrospect
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:53:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 5:55:59 PM EST by LibertarianYankee]
AppAssure - and it sucks. My opinion?

Back up only your important files to NAS using using powershell (or native SQL backups for SQL server, which are the best for SQL imho). Then backup your NAS.

Backups agents suck, other vendors blame them when things go awry, and they just suck. Nothing worse than going to restore data when you're desperate and your backup operator declares that the agent must not have been working because the most recent backup is from 3 weeks ago and OOPS, sorry.

Why backup a webserver when you can just backup INETPUB (which should be on a different drive anyway)? Why backup an app server when you can just back up your compiled services? Why backup the entire database server when you only need the SQL databases themselves?

All your servers should be a standard build with documented post-install tasks that can be executed by a drone if needed. Then restore your content from file level backups.

Most of the time you'll need to restore your backup is when someone deletes or modifies something stupidly, intentional or not, and you need to recover it. And you make not want to restore the entire "snapshot" of the system your backup agent took, because it will overwrite other recent important data.

If SHTF, your DR plan will come in handy more than your backups will, anyway.

For backups, Keep It Simple, Stupid. Say no to agents.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:55:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WalkerTexasRanger:


Sub, when backing up OSX using Time Machine, do you back up using time capsule, or different hardware? Been reading lots of complaints about time capsule, and ready to start backing up a mall POS system...
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WalkerTexasRanger:
Originally Posted By Subnet:
Linux and FreeBSD: Homegrown with shell scripts (hourly snapshots, using rsync and a bunch of other shit you're not interested in)

OSX: Time Machine

Win7: Backup and Restore

Win8: Windows 7 File Recovery

XP: I deserve to lose everything, and so do you. It's 2013. Knock it off.

My work shit is different.



Sub, when backing up OSX using Time Machine, do you back up using time capsule, or different hardware? Been reading lots of complaints about time capsule, and ready to start backing up a mall POS system...

Not Sub but...

I already have a Linux server on my network that does a lot of things like run pyTivo for media transfers to Tivo, MediaTomb for UPnP, backups for a couple of Windows machines in the house, general storage, etc.

So to accommodate my Macbook Pro backups I was able to just set up netatalk on that server to make it look like a Time Capsule. No new device (or expense) needed. Instructions here: http://www.tonymacx86.com/servers/86371-howto-use-ubuntu-mac-os-x-time-capsule.html
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:56:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WalkerTexasRanger:


Sub, when backing up OSX using Time Machine, do you back up using time capsule, or different hardware? Been reading lots of complaints about time capsule, and ready to start backing up a mall POS system...
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WalkerTexasRanger:
Originally Posted By Subnet:
Linux and FreeBSD: Homegrown with shell scripts (hourly snapshots, using rsync and a bunch of other shit you're not interested in)

OSX: Time Machine

Win7: Backup and Restore

Win8: Windows 7 File Recovery

XP: I deserve to lose everything, and so do you. It's 2013. Knock it off.

My work shit is different.



Sub, when backing up OSX using Time Machine, do you back up using time capsule, or different hardware? Been reading lots of complaints about time capsule, and ready to start backing up a mall POS system...
It goes to a NAS, I built. Way overkill for this thread.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:58:25 PM EST
Time Machine works just fine with any media it will recognize. Keep it simple. You can use any external HDD that floats your boat. You're by no means limited to Time Capsule.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WalkerTexasRanger:


Sub, when backing up OSX using Time Machine, do you back up using time capsule, or different hardware? Been reading lots of complaints about time capsule, and ready to start backing up a mall POS system...
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WalkerTexasRanger:
Originally Posted By Subnet:
Linux and FreeBSD: Homegrown with shell scripts (hourly snapshots, using rsync and a bunch of other shit you're not interested in)

OSX: Time Machine

Win7: Backup and Restore

Win8: Windows 7 File Recovery

XP: I deserve to lose everything, and so do you. It's 2013. Knock it off.

My work shit is different.



Sub, when backing up OSX using Time Machine, do you back up using time capsule, or different hardware? Been reading lots of complaints about time capsule, and ready to start backing up a mall POS system...

Link Posted: 10/28/2013 5:59:45 PM EST
VEEAM for vm, backupexec for the rest.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:03:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mgw24:
Virtual Environment? Can't recommend Veeam enough.. Backup Exec is ok. Networker sucks (and I'm an EMC engineer). Avamar is on the expensive side...
View Quote

Why does networker suck? Emc is coming in tomorrow with a quote for that.

I would look more into Veeam but didn't want one solution for physical and one for virtual.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:03:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By indianapwns:
CrashPlan is good. It's what I use on all my machines. It has settings for things like only running when the machine is idle, and of course what files to backup. Sounds like your IT guys just didn't set it up right.
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Originally Posted By indianapwns:
Originally Posted By JaxShooter:
They just installed CrashPlan on all our machines. They backup like every 10-15 min so most of the older PCs grind to a halt. The best part is that they only backup your users directory. None of the important shit is backed up. Of course you can't change it either. So I suppose it's a good thing that we can get our browser favorites back but it's not very helpful beyond that.
CrashPlan is good. It's what I use on all my machines. It has settings for things like only running when the machine is idle, and of course what files to backup. Sounds like your IT guys just didn't set it up right.

I never said it was bad. I use it at home.

The problem is that we're an IT shop with a bunch of non-IT customer service people. We're treated the same no matter what our job is as if a cookie cutter approach works. It's not uncommon for them to roll out changes that fuck up the development teams because they make uneducated decisions w/o any clue of how they're affecting peoples' productivity.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:05:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:
Avamar, sadly.
View Quote


Why do you say that?

I'm honestly curious as some folks want to bring it in as our third backup solution.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:12:49 PM EST
Do not use arkeia. Last I checked (last year) it had horrible security problems.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:14:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Foxxz:
Using a dell tape robot - powervault TL4000 with LTO5 tapes (48 tapes @ 1.5TB raw per tape) with an iSCSI interface. Software is bacula. Free and open source.

Tape rules.
View Quote


Powervault library here too...but running Symantec. Not flashy or fun, but meh, it works
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:20:58 PM EST
We use Backup Exec 11 because the company has had it for awhile and don't care to look into anything new. Finance has the mentality if it's been working don't change it.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:21:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 6:22:08 PM EST by Fullautoguy]
Originally Posted By NY_crawler:
We have been looking at backup software and everything seems pretty expensive. I am not impressed with Symantec, an have looked at Appasure, netvault and Acronis. Nothing has really jumped out at me.

We have about 125 VMs and 8 physical servers we need to backup. We are also a mixed Windows and Linux environment and the VMs are on Vmware 5.1. We also will be doing disk to disk as we don't have the people to be swapping tape at night and disk is just easier.

What do you run and what are the pros and cons of your backup solution?

ETA: Just looking to backup servers and not clients.
View Quote


we use replay, it is solid and works very well
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:23:29 PM EST
CommVault is actually pretty decent.. after you get past the steep learning curve.

Appassure and DPM are snapshot applications. They are not traditional backup programs. I've worked with DPM several years ago.. I wouldn't use it to protect my MP3s. I'm sure its more stable now but I don't trust it.

Backup Exec is okay as long as you don't try to do anything fancy with it. Stay away from its deduplication feature. In fact.. I would avoid all software based deduplication. If you want deduplication, stick with an appliance (ie Data Domain, Dell DR series, etc).

Netbackup is pretty solid but its also pretty old. I am not sure if Symantec is going to keep it going (thought I heard somewhere that they eventually wanted BUE to be their primary BU software).

Ive heard good things about Vranger and Netvault but have not played with them yet.

What ever you choose make sure you run regular test restores... don't be that guy who attempts his first restore in a critical scenario ;)

Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:41:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 6:49:56 PM EST by mgw24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NY_crawler:

Why does networker suck? Emc is coming in tomorrow with a quote for that.

I would look more into Veeam but didn't want one solution for physical and one for virtual.
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Originally Posted By NY_crawler:
Originally Posted By mgw24:
Virtual Environment? Can't recommend Veeam enough.. Backup Exec is ok. Networker sucks (and I'm an EMC engineer). Avamar is on the expensive side...

Why does networker suck? Emc is coming in tomorrow with a quote for that.

I would look more into Veeam but didn't want one solution for physical and one for virtual.


Just seems to be on the flaky side.... i've had customers with bad experiences with it, plus it requires a license for every single feature...

EMC is basically giving it away now... (ETA: if you buy a Data Domain from them as a backup target)

Backup Exec has a VMware agent that will backup full VM's. Not sure how well it works, but it would be an all in one solution..
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:44:58 PM EST
Backup Exec sucks donkey balls. That is all.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:46:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mgw24:


Just seems to be on the flaky side.... i've had customers with bad experiences with it, plus it requires a license for every single feature...

EMC is basically giving it away now...

Backup Exec has a VMware agent that will backup full VM's. Not sure how well it works, but it would be an all in one solution..
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Originally Posted By mgw24:
Originally Posted By NY_crawler:
Originally Posted By mgw24:
Virtual Environment? Can't recommend Veeam enough.. Backup Exec is ok. Networker sucks (and I'm an EMC engineer). Avamar is on the expensive side...

Why does networker suck? Emc is coming in tomorrow with a quote for that.

I would look more into Veeam but didn't want one solution for physical and one for virtual.


Just seems to be on the flaky side.... i've had customers with bad experiences with it, plus it requires a license for every single feature...

EMC is basically giving it away now...

Backup Exec has a VMware agent that will backup full VM's. Not sure how well it works, but it would be an all in one solution..

Like dogshit.

Total and complete dogshit. Backup Exec is a decent 1-10 server solution, if you must. Past that, you really need a non-shit product.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:52:10 PM EST
^^^

I've never used the BE VM plugin/agent. So I don't know. But I've seen BE be pretty much rock solid if backing up to a disk target for a large number of servers (100+).
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 6:57:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brassburn:
Time Machine works just fine with any media it will recognize. Keep it simple. You can use any external HDD that floats your boat. You're by no means limited to Time Capsule.


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Originally Posted By brassburn:
Time Machine works just fine with any media it will recognize. Keep it simple. You can use any external HDD that floats your boat. You're by no means limited to Time Capsule.

Originally Posted By WalkerTexasRanger:
Originally Posted By Subnet:
Linux and FreeBSD: Homegrown with shell scripts (hourly snapshots, using rsync and a bunch of other shit you're not interested in)

OSX: Time Machine

Win7: Backup and Restore

Win8: Windows 7 File Recovery

XP: I deserve to lose everything, and so do you. It's 2013. Knock it off.

My work shit is different.



Sub, when backing up OSX using Time Machine, do you back up using time capsule, or different hardware? Been reading lots of complaints about time capsule, and ready to start backing up a mall POS system...


And MORE THAN ONE, lust like any other backup media.

We keep one set of TM copies in a fire safe
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