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Posted: 7/19/2008 9:08:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 2:15:23 PM EST by LouisianaCarry]
Of your vehicle/person?

IBTP
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:10:36 PM EST
What upside is there for me to consent to a search?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:11:39 PM EST
If you need my consent, that tells me you have no reason/cause to be searching.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:12:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By jnojr:
What upside is there for me to consent to a search?



Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:12:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By jnojr:
What upside is there for me to consent to a search?


Most people feel like they are "supposed to," or they couldn't bear to give the impression that they might be "hiding something."
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:14:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:16:08 PM EST by TampaSsgt]

Originally Posted By LouisianaCarry:
Of your vehicle/person?

IBTP


They better have DAMN good probable cause AND a warrant.

If not I'll tell them .....

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

( The Fourth Amendment of the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution )

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:15:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By LouisianaCarry:

Originally Posted By jnojr:
What upside is there for me to consent to a search?


Most people feel like they are "supposed to," or they couldn't bear to give the impression that they might be "hiding something."


I am hiding something , a copy of the constitution.....

We all know those are illegal these days..........
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:18:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:21:29 PM EST by niceguymr]
ME: Why sir do you wish to search my vehicle?

JBT: Do you have something to hide? (or whater else they may say)

ME: Do you have probable cause supported by Oath or Affirmation?

JBT: Carry on and have a nice day.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:20:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:

Originally Posted By jnojr:
What upside is there for me to consent to a search?



assets.spirithalloween.com/images/spirit/products/processed/00189738.zoom.a.jpg



Well Officer GoodBody, there MAY be an Upside in this after all!

Oh, and please, DON'T be gentile!! Who's your daddy?!?!
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:23:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
If you need my consent, that tells me you have no reason/cause to be searching.



exactly...if the officer asks permission he is fishing. Know your rights. Excercise your rights. Otherwise those in power try to view them as privileges to be allowed or disallowed at a whim.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:23:54 PM EST
The answer is no, I've been stopped multiple times and have only been asked once. Thankfully the cops here are generally lazy. The one time I have been harassed was by a city marshall.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:25:11 PM EST
i have nothing to hide, so search away. i don't care if you waste your own time....
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:25:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:27:23 PM EST by Mattl]
Odd nobody from the bootlicker brigade has chimed in yet.


ETA: May have spoke to soon.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:26:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By hsracer201:
i have nothing to hide, so search away. i don't care if you waste your own time....



As well as yours. Do you place no value on your own time? Does it not raise a question in your mind as to why he would ask?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:27:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:28:28 PM EST by niceguymr]

Originally Posted By hsracer201:
i have nothing to hide, so search away. i don't care if you waste your own time....


Wrong answer. You just gave up your 4th Amendment right. Why not just give up your right to free speach and a fair trial by jury while you're at it?

ETA: Good luck explaining the dime bag of weed he just 'found' in your car.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:27:53 PM EST
i have consented to a couple searches before.

i have refused twice as many.

it depends on john laws attitude and whether he laughs at my jokes.

i held a pair of deputys at gunpoint one night. that was nerve wracking.

SD: put the gun down!
Me: uh no, fuck that mess.....can i halp you boyz with sumthin, zare a reason you tresspassin out here in gods kountry?

SD: did you call the law bout someone throwin rocks at yer house?
Me: hellno. step out here and talk to me, put that thang in park.

SD: is that night vision? can I see that?
Me: sure, ya have to hold a couple inches low if ya wanna hit that can there.

SD: we got a call about someone throwin rocks at a whitehouse on this road, yours is the only one.
Me: well that cemetary there you're using as a landmark shares the name with the official cemetary up the holler of same name two mountains over, so yer wrong about where you're supposed to be.

SD: what are you doin out dressed like a ninja with allthis kinda gear on then?
Me: well about 20 minutes ago sum1 pulled in at the junkyard down here and shined a spotlight then took off, I was going to see if'n they dropped off a thief.

SD: o damn, lol, that was us!
Me: ya'll need gps.

SD: well thanks for the info, we go and check out the holler then.
Me: ya'll stay safe, if ye confiscate any whiskey bring it back here.
SD: lol no, we're keepin it for ourselves.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:28:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
If you need my consent, that tells me you have no reason/cause to be searching.


+1
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:29:39 PM EST
LEO's don't need consent to search the area of a vehicle you have immediate access to. They might ask, to judge your reaction or be polite, but the fact is you have already given them enough probably cause to stop you in the first place... speeding, erratic driving, tail light out, etc. By the time they pull you over, it's easy for them to generate probable cause in order to search the part of a vehicle that you don't have immediate access to... "car smelled like pot" or "they were acting suspiciously".

There is no such thing as consent to search a vehicle. It is not a right to drive, but a privilage. They'll bring out a K-9 and otherwise temporarily detain you until you realize that it's easiest to provide them what you believe to be consent right from the start.

Although... it's probably easiest to either obey the law, or appear as if you obey the law, in order to avoid situations like this.



-1 for the spelling in the thread title.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:30:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By SlipShot762:
SD: what are you doin out dressed like a ninja with allthis kinda gear on then?


Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:30:56 PM EST
reasonable suspicion and probable cause are not the same.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:33:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By hsracer201:
i have nothing to hide, so search away. i don't care if you waste your own time....



As well as yours. Do you place no value on your own time? Does it not raise a question in your mind as to why he would ask?


i am too laid back to care. i usually have no where to be. no biggie to me.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:33:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By msz:
................


Wow.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:34:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:36:47 PM EST by niceguymr]

Originally Posted By msz:
LEO's don't need consent to search the area of a vehicle you have immediate access to. They might ask, to judge your reaction or be polite, but the fact is you have already given them enough probably cause to stop you in the first place... speeding, erratic driving, tail light out, etc. By the time they pull you over, it's easy for them to generate probable cause in order to search the part of a vehicle that you don't have immediate access to... "car smelled like pot" or "they were acting suspiciously".

There is no such thing as consent to search a vehicle. It is not a right to drive, but a privilage. They'll bring out a K-9 and otherwise temporarily detain you until you realize that it's easiest to provide them what you believe to be consent right from the start.

Although... it's probably easiest to either obey the law, or appear as if you obey the law, in order to avoid situations like this.



-1 for the spelling in the thread title.


Wrong, a lot.

Round here, no probable cause affirmed by oath or affirmation means no search. If a cop 'smells' somthing or there's otherwise 'suspicious' behavior, he better damn well find or 'plant' something in your vehicle, b/c no cop I know is going to put their ass on the line for a false warrant.

ETA: One thing I agree with you on is that if they want to FIND something, THEY WILL. Give a cop enough attitude and they may very easily find something in your car you never saw before. It's true and I know this for a fact.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:37:02 PM EST
Giving consent cannot help you. At all.

I am not a lawyer and even if I were, there is no way I can know what all the laws on the books are. Therefore, no. My policy is to never consent to a search.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:37:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By verticalgain:

Originally Posted By msz:
................


Wow.




John McCain will not appoint supreme court justices who will overrule current case law which pretty much makes the 4th irrelevent.


Yet another reason to abandon the GOP and go Libertarian. The lesser evil bandwagon soldiers on............................................
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:38:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By SlipShot762:
reasonable suspicion and probable cause are not the same.


+ elventy billion
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:39:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By niceguymr:

Originally Posted By msz:
LEO's don't need consent to search the area of a vehicle you have immediate access to. They might ask, to judge your reaction or be polite, but the fact is you have already given them enough probably cause to stop you in the first place... speeding, erratic driving, tail light out, etc. By the time they pull you over, it's easy for them to generate probable cause in order to search the part of a vehicle that you don't have immediate access to... "car smelled like pot" or "they were acting suspiciously".

There is no such thing as consent to search a vehicle. It is not a right to drive, but a privilage. They'll bring out a K-9 and otherwise temporarily detain you until you realize that it's easiest to provide them what you believe to be consent right from the start.

Although... it's probably easiest to either obey the law, or appear as if you obey the law, in order to avoid situations like this.



-1 for the spelling in the thread title.


Wrong, a lot.

Round here, no probable cause affirmed by oath or affirmation means no search. If a cop 'smells' somthing or there's otherwise 'suspicious' behavior, he better damn well find or 'plant' something in your vehicle, b/c no cop I know is going to put their ass on the line for a false warrant.



The testimony of a sworn officer of the law weighs heavier than the testimony of a normal person. It could be as easy as "Miss, have you been drinking tonight/today? Do you mind stepping out of the car?" LEO's can create cause to search a vehicle in an instant.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:41:23 PM EST
"no, sir. are you going to write me a citation or are finished detaining me?"
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:43:11 PM EST
^^^ he has a point,sort of.

cops word does have more weight in court than your word, so technically, than can pull you over for no reason, cuff you for their safety, fuck you in the ass and rub their nutsaks on yer face and then arrest you for disorderly conduct.....and you will have a hard time proving it.

but other than such perfidy, reasonable suspicion differs from probale cause.

the world runs on two sets of rules; the rules man sets down in writing, and the rules that state you can do whatever you can get away with; ie natural law or natures rules as it were.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:43:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By niceguymr:

Originally Posted By msz:
LEO's don't need consent to search the area of a vehicle you have immediate access to. They might ask, to judge your reaction or be polite, but the fact is you have already given them enough probably cause to stop you in the first place... speeding, erratic driving, tail light out, etc. By the time they pull you over, it's easy for them to generate probable cause in order to search the part of a vehicle that you don't have immediate access to... "car smelled like pot" or "they were acting suspiciously".

There is no such thing as consent to search a vehicle. It is not a right to drive, but a privilage. They'll bring out a K-9 and otherwise temporarily detain you until you realize that it's easiest to provide them what you believe to be consent right from the start.

Although... it's probably easiest to either obey the law, or appear as if you obey the law, in order to avoid situations like this.



-1 for the spelling in the thread title.


Wrong, a lot.

Round here, no probable cause affirmed by oath or affirmation means no search. If a cop 'smells' somthing or there's otherwise 'suspicious' behavior, he better damn well find or 'plant' something in your vehicle, b/c no cop I know is going to put their ass on the line for a false warrant.

ETA: One thing I agree with you on is that if they want to FIND something, THEY WILL. Give a cop enough attitude and they may very easily find something in your car you never saw before. It's true and I know this for a fact.



Thank you for your EDIT. That's my whole point. They will find something if you give them a hard time or a reason. Majority of the time, normal law abiding citizens are required to be searched, because they look "law-abiding". If you look fucking suspicious, you ass is gonna get searched.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:51:57 PM EST
I got pulled over by a DPS Trooper in Seguin, TX. He asked me, "Do you have any guns, drugs, or large sums of cash."
"No. I wish."
Me:
Him:
"Do you mind if I search your vehicle?"
"You may not search my vehicle. I don't see any reason for you to search my vehicle."
Then we shot the shit about Sigs. He gave me a ticket, and I was on my merry way.

I'll tell you what, the ONE time I was honest with a cop, it landed me in jail.

Another time, the coppers left me alone, REAL quick after I told them, "My aunt works for the ACLU in LA, and she's gonna have your ass on a platter. What's your fucking badge number?! I'm filing a report with Internal Affairs as soon as I am out of here."

Key words:
Badge Number
Internal Affairs
ACLU

Flame on, this guys deserved it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:55:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
"no, sir. are you going to write me a citation or are finished detaining me?"



real life...

"Sir, you need to calm down and wait here in the backseat until I am finished." Meanwhile they are running a check on your license, registration, insurance, warrants, fingerprints, DNA, sperm... whatever until you come up dirty, or are in big trouble with your boss because you showed up late for work due to what you believe to be targeted police harrassment or profiling.


What is supposed to happen, and what really happens are totally different. Then if you appear in court, it always looks as if it's your fault that what really happened went down although the LEO's made every attempt to handle it "By the Book" like it's supposed to happen.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:00:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By msz:
"Miss, have you been drinking tonight/today? Do you mind stepping out of the car?" LEO's can create cause to search a vehicle in an instant.


If she had NOT been drinking, she'd have no problems at all.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:02:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By hsracer201:
i have nothing to hide, so search away. i don't care if you waste your own time....


You clearly have more faith in the saintly character of all L.E. than I do!

And, they are also wasting YOUR time, but perhaps that's OK too?

We have too much constant pressure to meekly surrender our rights, allowing them to be reduced to mere privilege without a struggle is abominable cowardice.
Until they pull a gun and threaten you, always stand on your rights!

"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure."
-- Albert Einstein
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:03:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By whomper:
I got pulled over by a DPS Trooper in Seguin, TX. He asked me, "Do you have any guns, drugs, or large sums of cash."
"No. I wish."
Me:
Him:
"Do you mind if I search your vehicle?"
"You may not search my vehicle. I don't see any reason for you to search my vehicle."
Then we shot the shit about Sigs. He gave me a ticket, and I was on my merry way.

I'll tell you what, the ONE time I was honest with a cop, it landed me in jail.

Another time, the coppers left me alone, REAL quick after I told them, "My aunt works for the ACLU in LA, and she's gonna have your ass on a platter. What's your fucking badge number?! I'm filing a report with Internal Affairs as soon as I am out of here."

Key words:
Badge Number
Internal Affairs
ACLU

Flame on, this guys deserved it.


Great, you threatened the cop and his job security. That's a good way of speeding things along.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:05:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By whomper:
Key words:
Badge Number
Internal Affairs
ACLU


Those 'key words' only work if you TRULY have nothing to hide. If they do in fact (legitimately) smell something or have true probable cause supported by Oath and Affirmation, those words mean nothing. You're fucked and your ACLU/IA friends will have nothing to do with you.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:10:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By RichardSIA:

Originally Posted By hsracer201:
i have nothing to hide, so search away. i don't care if you waste your own time....


You clearly have more faith in the saintly character of all L.E. than I do!

And, they are also wasting YOUR time, but perhaps that's OK too?

We have too much constant pressure to meekly surrender our rights, allowing them to be reduced to mere privilege without a struggle is abominable cowardice.
Until they pull a gun and threaten you, always stand on your rights!

"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure."
-- Albert Einstein



You are right, we do have constant pressure on us to surrender our rights. It is our responsibility to feel "duty bound" to defend our rights whenever possible. But, the financial burden of defending our rights in today's modern court system which drags on ever so slowly and requires enough experienced legal counsel, that it is usually beyond the average citizen's financial abilities.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:19:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 10:20:19 PM EST by whomper]

Originally Posted By msz:
Great, you threatened the cop and his job security. That's a good way of speeding things along.


So fucking what? The guy was an unprofessional douchebag. If he hadn't have shown up to my work MULTIPLE times after I told him I was going to file a complaint with IA, I would never have filed it. One of his Sergeants told me to file a report. Fuck him.
I like good cops as much as the next ARFcommer. And I've met MANY more good cops, than bad cops. With that said, bad cops hack me off to no end.



Originally Posted By niceguymr:

Originally Posted By whomper:
Key words:
Badge Number
Internal Affairs
ACLU


Those 'key words' only work if you TRULY have nothing to hide. If they do in fact (legitimately) smell something or have true probable cause supported by Oath and Affirmation, those words mean nothing. You're fucked and your ACLU/IA friends will have nothing to do with you.


Agreed. But it will get the dumb cops off your back, as well as the ones who already have been investigated by IA that know they are doing something questionable.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:22:34 PM EST
NEVER!
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:23:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By msz:

Originally Posted By RichardSIA:

Originally Posted By hsracer201:
i have nothing to hide, so search away. i don't care if you waste your own time....


You clearly have more faith in the saintly character of all L.E. than I do!

And, they are also wasting YOUR time, but perhaps that's OK too?

We have too much constant pressure to meekly surrender our rights, allowing them to be reduced to mere privilege without a struggle is abominable cowardice.
Until they pull a gun and threaten you, always stand on your rights!

"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure."
-- Albert Einstein



You are right, we do have constant pressure on us to surrender our rights. It is our responsibility to feel "duty bound" to defend our rights whenever possible. But, the financial burden of defending our rights in today's modern court system which drags on ever so slowly and requires enough experienced legal counsel, that it is usually beyond the average citizen's financial abilities.




[SARCASM] You mean the system is set up to go against us? ....................an the the poor and those of modest means do not get a fair shake? [?SARCASM]





I wanted to be a cop when I was a kid, now I could not look at myself in the mirror if I were. I just think the system is completely fubar.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:33:09 PM EST
Are you allowed to video them searching your vehicle? if you're not obviously 'detained for their safety'
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:38:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 10:47:03 PM EST by Pita_146]

Originally Posted By niceguymr:

Originally Posted By msz:
LEO's don't need consent to search the area of a vehicle you have immediate access to. They might ask, to judge your reaction or be polite, but the fact is you have already given them enough probably cause to stop you in the first place... speeding, erratic driving, tail light out, etc. By the time they pull you over, it's easy for them to generate probable cause in order to search the part of a vehicle that you don't have immediate access to... "car smelled like pot" or "they were acting suspiciously".

There is no such thing as consent to search a vehicle. It is not a right to drive, but a privilage. They'll bring out a K-9 and otherwise temporarily detain you until you realize that it's easiest to provide them what you believe to be consent right from the start.

Although... it's probably easiest to either obey the law, or appear as if you obey the law, in order to avoid situations like this.



-1 for the spelling in the thread title.


Wrong, a lot.

Round here, no probable cause affirmed by oath or affirmation means no search. If a cop 'smells' somthing or there's otherwise 'suspicious' behavior, he better damn well find or 'plant' something in your vehicle, b/c no cop I know is going to put their ass on the line for a false warrant.

ETA: One thing I agree with you on is that if they want to FIND something, THEY WILL. Give a cop enough attitude and they may very easily find something in your car you never saw before. It's true and I know this for a fact.


Don't need a warrant for a vehicle.Us V Carroll

However, you can't toss a car just because it seems like the thing to do...

ETA: This article seems to be a bit more informative...
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:41:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By TampaSsgt:

Originally Posted By LouisianaCarry:
Of your vehicle/person?

IBTP


They better have DAMN good probable cause AND a warrant.


You don't need a warrant to search a vehicle.
There are multiple exceptions to the warrant rule, including plain view, exigency, search incident to arrest, and consent.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:43:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
ME: Why sir do you wish to search my vehicle?

JBT: Do you have something to hide? (or whater else they may say)

ME: Do you have probable cause supported by Oath or Affirmation?

JBT: Carry on and have a nice day.


Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:43:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 10:47:22 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By LouisianaCarry:
Of your vehicle/person?

IBTP


Where I live/work right now, consent is not required...

'All vehicles and persons are subject to search at any time for any reason'....

Standard policy for all military installations...

That said, my number has never come up for a random search...

I have, on one occasion, had my car and my on-post room searched by dogs, though, as part of a 100% search of everyone in the unit...

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:45:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By msz:
LEO's don't need consent to search the area of a vehicle you have immediate access to.


Known as a
wingspan search
lunge and grasp
Chimmel area.

Whichever you prefer.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:49:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By msz:
LEO's don't need consent to search the area of a vehicle you have immediate access to.


Known as a
wingspan search
lunge and grasp
Chimel area.

Whichever you prefer.


Fixed

Can't exactly run around searching the lunge area for no good reason either though.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:49:19 PM EST
Nobody is saying you should consent to a search if you have done nothing wrong.
I'm just advising you not try and play roadside lawyer, because you probably don't know the law as well as you think you do.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:51:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pita_146:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By msz:
LEO's don't need consent to search the area of a vehicle you have immediate access to.


Known as a
wingspan search
lunge and grasp
Chimel area.

Whichever you prefer.


Fixed

Can't exactly run around searching the lunge area for no good reason either though.


Bah!
Off by one M.
Thank you sir.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:25:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Pita_146:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By msz:
LEO's don't need consent to search the area of a vehicle you have immediate access to.


Known as a
wingspan search
lunge and grasp
Chimel area.

Whichever you prefer.


Fixed

Can't exactly run around searching the lunge area for no good reason either though.


Bah!
Off by one M.
Thank you sir.


Anytime

I actually googled it, because I had never heard it referred to by that name before.

BTW, I'm pretty sure I sent you an IM like a month ago and never got an answer
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:37:10 PM EST
If you ask any lawyer (I have asked several)...or any cop for that matter(asked a few of those as well) they will all tell you the same thing. Never give consent to a search. Never ever ever ever.

I don't care if your a little old lady with nothing to hide or a dude with 20 kilo's in the trunk. DO NOT DO IT.

There are a multitude of good reasons not to and no good reasons to do it unless you actively like having your right's violated


and to the crowd who says "if they want to find something they will" yeah right...I'm sure EVERY SINGLE COP has a bag of weed or some thing to plant on you if you stand up for yourself.
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