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Posted: 7/20/2008 12:53:04 AM EDT
[#1]
That is it right there. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 1:08:55 AM EDT
[#2]
This is ARFCOM, don't go bringing logic into a cop bashing festival. 
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Posted: 7/20/2008 1:10:46 AM EDT
[#3]
Nope.
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:11:43 AM EDT
[#4]
That's a little over the top, I would and have let them search my vehicle. Not a big deal to me, I'm still an American and because I have nothing to hide, I'm sill a freeman. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:21:05 AM EDT
[#5]
I would exercise my 4th Amendment rights and respectfully decline to give consent for a search. If the LEO wants to do a search, he's going to find a reason to search anyway.
I don't engage in the kinds of behavior that would attract the undivided attention of an LEO. I must be doing something right because I've never had an LEO express a desire to search my person or my property. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:34:13 AM EDT
[#6]
No flame. Just my experience. Its not like you're the first person to threaten an officer with legal action. In larger departments this happens multiple times a shift. My experience is like this: - number of people who threaten officers with legal action in a given time period - 100 - number who actually do anything about it - 2 - number than actually go anywhere - .01 Here's how the conversation usually goes: Officer: Hey Sergeant, got a minute to chat? Sergeant: What's up? Officer: I just searched some jackoff's car for (insert pc here) and he cried like a little girl. Said he was going to have my badge and sick the ACLU on us. Sergeant OK... Officer: You want me to do any paper on this? Sergeant: No. Get back out there. If you want, I can post up a typical conversation between a Sergeant / LT / shift supervisor and said complaintant. Those usually don't work out the way the caller thinks either... BTW. Coppers?  Stay safe! -Z |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:35:57 AM EDT
[#7]
One morning on my way to a fishing charter I had a SD pulled me over for a inop taillight in Florida. After he told me he was going back to the car to write up a warning I told him I was getting out to look at it. He said OK, I checked the light, and fixed it on the spot with a good shot from hand to the side of the housing. He was in the car writing and looked up, seen it was working and gave me a thumbs up.
I got back in the truck and waited for him to come back with my DL and registration. When he went to hand me back my reg. paper he literally snatched it back out of my hand and sniffed it. Next the genius said "you said earlier that your vehicle does not contain any illegal substances. This registration smells like marijuana. this gives me probable cause to search your truck."  At that point it turned into a hour long cluster fuck, 2 other SD cars and a State Trooper showed up to join in the fun. The K-9 jerk with his black fingerless gloves and BDU's tucked in his boots asked me before he searched my truck with the pooch "so Mr. XXX, have you ever been in jail before?" I told him no, never been arrested before. He then said "well, we will see about that" Finally after they went through my truck and stood around with dumb looks on their faces, the Trooper came up to me and said I was free to go. "They must have had me confused with someone else." I told him " Well at least I now have a lifetime get out of jail free card. Thanks guys and have a nice day. I am now going to try and salvage a $600 charter that I am now 1 1/2 hours late for. For the next 17 years in that small town I was never pulled over again. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:37:43 AM EDT
[#8]
"If there's nothing to hide you don't mind us just taking a look to check things out?"
Yeah right. I would respectfully decline. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:39:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Hell to the No!
Esp. if I know I have done nothing wrong! |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:43:16 AM EDT
[#10]
If I'm trying to get somewhere and I don't want the hassle I'd probably let them look in the trunk or whatever. I wouldn't let them pat me down or search my pockets though. Like when I pass through Border Patrol checkpoints every so often down south they usually don't ask but one time they did so I just popped it and said it's fine since there really wasn't anything back there. With cops the way they are, refusing will probably get you stuck at the side of the road for an hour while they bring some drug dog to sniff your car. Not even because they really think you have anything but because they want to hassle you for daring to tell them no. It's sad but I'm a pragmatist and sometimes I don't have time for that kind of shit.
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:47:12 AM EDT
[#11]
This |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:51:58 AM EDT
[#12]
The one time I was cooperative and allowed a search, I went to jail for "possession of burglary tools." I had a box of tools in my trunk; one of the screwdrivers was filed down to clean valve cover gaskets. They didn't actually charge me, so I beat the charge, but I took the ride anyway.
He pulled me over for suspected DUI. I was sober. The only reason he had to pull me over was he saw me leaving a bar at 12:30 am. He assumed I had been drinking, when I hadn't. I was there for a pool tournament. I was on a league team. In the long run that arrest cost me thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of aggravation, and nearly cost me a very good job because it showed up on a background check. So no. I will *NEVER* consent to another search. Ever. Nor will I answer questions without counsel present. And then I probably STILL won't answer questions. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:57:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Yep. "Am I under arrest? No? Then am I free to go?" |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 7:05:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Not consenting to a roadside search 'without probable cause supported by oath or affirmation' doesn't mean you're playing a roadside lawyer. It just means you know your rights. Supposing you actually had nothing to hide, a cop is going to have to (pretty much) lie to get a warrant to search your car. This is going to waste a lot of the cops time for no reason and make him look like a total ass when nothing turns up. That is... If 'nothing' turns up. 
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Posted: 7/20/2008 7:06:47 AM EDT
[#15]
I conent to nothing.
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Posted: 7/20/2008 7:15:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Bad context quote there-----it says "unreasonable searches and seizures.................." The oath or affirmation thing is purely for warrants mate. Plenty of searches without one which are based upon probable cause which require no warrant because the SC said they are reasonable. (Side note---PC was never defined in the Constitution....the SC did it much much later from the bench.) |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 7:16:24 AM EDT
[#17]
Do you have a search warrant?
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Posted: 7/20/2008 7:17:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Depends if I have something to hide .
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Posted: 7/20/2008 7:20:21 AM EDT
[#19]
For the 1000th time, a cop doesn't need a warrant to search your car. Read about the Carroll Doctrine. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 12:41:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Read the thread, this has been covered. A warrant is not needed for a vehicle. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 12:50:50 PM EDT
[#21]
87% would consent in real life vs internet.
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Posted: 7/20/2008 12:51:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Not true. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 12:52:45 PM EDT
[#23]
I was pulled over, for speeding 74 in a 55. The LEO asks, " any knives, guns, uzis, grenades etc that I should be aware of ? " I say " Yes I do, to all of them " The LEO loked as if he saw a ghost. He stepped back almost into on comming traffic, and asked me to get out the truck. He looked through all my range bags and weapon cases. Asked why I had so many guns, I told him that I had been camping, and shooting in the desert. He asked me to please stand by my rear bumper and not to go back to the truck until his traffic stop was done.
He laughed when he saw my fake pineapple grenade, I had my Uzi carbine, and he said he asked that question 1000 times and he said no one he pulled over ever had an Uzi. He gave me a ticket, for speeding and told me to have a nice day. 
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Posted: 7/20/2008 1:02:24 PM EDT
[#24]
You gentlemen do not know what you are talking about. Even with probable cause, the officer will almost always ask for permission, as that resolves any P.C. issues in the arrest report. Not saying that you ought to give permission, just pointing out that asking means nothing. If you refuse and he has PC, he is going to search anyway. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 1:55:53 PM EDT
[#25]
I don't care if it is needed or not. If they ask if they can search, I'm going to ask if they have a warrant. They will do as they please or can get away with, but it won't be with my permission. After all is said and done, I'll refer to legal counsel. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 2:18:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Hell no
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Posted: 7/20/2008 2:30:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Yes. Assuming he really does have PC. Or maybe if he just thinks he has PC. If his PC turns out to be "The driver was acting suspiciously" or some other equally bs "reason" his search is not going to withstand scrutiny. Unless, of course, I consent to the search. As has been stated earlier, there are no good reasons to consent and a lot of good reasons NOT to. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 2:34:11 PM EDT
[#28]
-2 for spelling and grammar |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 2:54:57 PM EDT
[#29]
+1 This is why I love Digital EyeWitness. That digging you did prior to pulling over makes me think you might have ---------------- (insert illegal substance or dangerous object here) Our systems record 20 secs loop, prior to activation of emergency lights. GPS cords, speed, etc etc. Me noting your pulsing carodic arty, sweaty shaking hands. All helps build a case. I have had only 1 person deny consent. And when they did, K-9 hit the car and alerted. Weed and 2 Stolen pistols, were the result. Everyone thinks the JBT are out to violate. Some dont consider that there are brave men and women who work the streets at night, ready to face violence on the sheeps behalf. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:00:00 PM EDT
[#30]
This. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:06:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Nope. You guys are not paying attention. It's not done because the Officer "needs" consent. I always asked for consent, even when I had rock-solid PC. It just makes for a better case. But if I had PC and the guy said "No", I searched anyway and listed my PC on the Offense Report. Never lost a single case in court. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:22:38 PM EDT
[#32]
Which is why I will always say NO. 
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:25:49 PM EDT
[#33]
 |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:26:03 PM EDT
[#34]
This is correct. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:29:20 PM EDT
[#35]
This thread reminds me of that video making the rounds on the internet a few months back from Missouri. The one where the local yokel pulled over a kid who just happened to have recording equipment activated in his vehicle. Said equipment caught the officer on tape clearly stating how he could think up "9 different reasons",
i.e. fabricate his reasonable suspicion and probable cause. If asked for consent the simplest answer is to say no. Won't stop an officer who is determined to violate your rights but if you say yes anything that is found or "found" in the car is automatically admissible. If you said no.... your lawyer will at least have a chance at getting the "found" evidence booted. There are lots of LEO who have no problem breaking the law to enforce it......tons of electronic documentation has surfaced in the past few years showing just how prevalent this activity is. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:29:29 PM EDT
[#36]
I'd like to think no....but if i'm honest odds are id just say yes to get it over with as hassle free as possible.
If he wants PC he's going to find PC no matter what. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:31:10 PM EDT
[#37]
My "S" key is messed up, BTW. I thought it was ironic that someone would point out my missed letter, and then post several goofs, also. Anyway, an officer still needs to be able to articulate a reason why he reasonably felt it was necessary for his safety to search your immediately accessable area. This is a safety check only, and should be a cursory search, though plain view/plain feel doctrines apply. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:36:15 PM EDT
[#38]
I have not been asked in years, but I used to be a hippie in a traveling school bus, and I actually did say no. Once they called the dog out, but he did not call out anything. Possibly because I had a GSD inside, myself, and he was more interested in smelling Buddy's marks on the tires than anything else. Anyway, though, a good cop will let you go if he does not have PC (which is greater than reasonable suspicion), and there are many good cops out there.
In a perfect world, all the bad guys would furnish PC, and all the good guys would be obvious, but this is not a perfect world. We all make the wrong assumptions, or miss clues sometimes. In the meantime, it is your responsibility to know the law and to protect yourself. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:38:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Don't sell us short, we have that, some coke, a couple tabs, some X, and a crack pipe in our back right pocket. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 3:49:34 PM EDT
[#40]
I've consented on two occasions.. well ok one.
The first time doesn't really count. I had parked my car (with expired registration) at a convenience store my first day in a new town, and gone with a realtor to look at apartments. While I was gone, the store was robbed. When I got back and picked up my car I was pulled over right away, searched, and detained. It was a real JBT type of fiasco too. After searching all my bags (I was moving!) on the side of the street, tossing clothes and stuff all over the sidewalk, being harassed about the two grand cash in my jacket, handcuffing me, and tossing me in the back of a patrol car -- it turns out I looked nothing at all like the person they were after. These guys didn't even have a good description of who they were after. The car bit I can understand but after that it just went downhill. The second time I was driving a new car that still had the temp tags on it (not expired) back from North Carolina to New Jersey. I was stopped by Maryland State Patrol with my female companion, in the freezing cold, and forced to stand on the side of the road with no jacket for 45 minutes while they tore my car apart for no reason at all. When they found a tin of cookies in the trunk they went into giggling fits yelling "We got 'em now, boys!" Imagine their disappointment when they found only wholesome cookies. I consented the second time because I really thought it would be over quickly, I had nothing at all to hide, and I knew that if I said no that I was taking a trip to the slammer with my female friend while my car took up residence at the impound lot. Of course the law books and all the lawyers know that not giving consent is not PC for arrest or detainment, but the fuzz is on the scene and knows better. Would I consent again? Certainly not. I've learned my lesson. Refuse, spend a night in the slammer, call the ACLU, and lawyer up. As long as my financial situation isn't so precarious that I can't afford to miss a day or two of work, I'll stand my ground next time. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 4:37:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Im not saying if they want to find something they will but i am saying if they want to search it they will. If i said no that might make them inclined to do more than give my car the cursory once over they would have if i'd said yes. 90% of the time saying yes gets me on my way faster than saying no. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 5:06:51 PM EDT
[#42]
So this has come up more than 10 times? Tell us more. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 5:17:58 PM EDT
[#43]
OP, Did you ever ask to search someone's vehicle when you didn't have PC? If so, what would you do if they had said 'no'? Reason I ask is b/c there are plenty of LEOs that would ask to search w/o PC, and would consider saying 'no' as PC (ie. must have something to hide) |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 5:20:32 PM EDT
[#44]
For the love of fuck....how many times do we need to tell you that refusing consent does NOT give rise to probable cause or reasonable suspicion. To base a search solely off of a refused consent will result in any fruits of the search being thrown out in court. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 5:44:48 PM EDT
[#45]
If a cop wants to have PC, they will find a way to have it. There are countless things that could be used as 'probable cause' that cannot be disproven in court after the fact. If a cop want to say you were acting 'funny', 'nervous', 'sweaty' or whatever BS they want to make up, they will use it to say they had probable cause. I was once with a cop when we pulled over a 'suspicious' driver (ie. black, wheels, spinners, etc.). Cop asked to search. Driver said no. Cop tried unsuccessfully to instigate a confrontation with driver. Then cop threatened to call K9 to search vehicle. Finally, driver consented and nothing was found. Point of story - If a cop wants to search your vehicle without PC, they will either find a way to create PC, or harass you until you give consent. I've never heard of a cop asking to search a vehicle, being denied, and the cop just saying 'ok'. I will never admit to ever seeing a flashlight containing 'contraband' stashed in an officers vehicle 'just in case' but if you're an LEO who denies that this ever happens, you're full of shit. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 5:49:01 PM EDT
[#46]
No, I never asked unless I had PC. So, I was going to search basis PC regardless of what they said. I would not have asked if I did not have PC. I did not waste time on fishing expeditions. (Nor did any other Police Officer that I worked with.) And, once again, saying "No" is not PC for anything. If he has no PC and asks anyway, and you say no, the interview is over. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 5:51:21 PM EDT
[#47]
What? Please explain. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 5:51:46 PM EDT
[#48]
I will call BS on this one. Is it possible that there are dishonest police officers? Sure. I know that there are. But the vast, vast majority do not do these things. If you knew one that did, I hope you reported him to the authorities and that he was arrested. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 5:54:27 PM EDT
[#49]
I stopped this guy I thought was DUI. He signed a consent to search form after being told on tape if he did not sign, he was free to go. He signed, in the center console was a pistol and weed. |
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Posted: 7/20/2008 5:57:15 PM EDT
[#50]
If you are a cop, then you sound like one of the good ones. With that said, I'm sure you've heard the expression, You can beat the ticket, but you wont beat the ride. There are a fair number of crooked cops that make all cops look bad.
It happened to me, once. Posted it on pg 2 or 3 if you want to read it. |
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