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Posted: 8/3/2009 9:45:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 9:47:32 AM EST by brasidas]
Zogby/O'Leary asked voters:

"Currently, 39 states have laws that allow residents to carry firearms to protect themselves, only if they pass a background check and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Most of those states also require applicants to have firearms safety training. Do you support or oppose this law?"

An overwhelming majority of Americans (83 percent) support concealed-carry laws, while only 11 percent oppose them. A majority of Independent voters (86 percent), Democrats (80 percent), young voters age 18-29 (83 percent), Hispanic voters (80 percent), and those who voted for President Obama (80 percent) support the right to carry a firearm.

While it seems like the country is going to hell at an accelerating pace, the public seems to have decisively come to their senses on the gun issue. There has been a huge turnaround in public opinion in the last 20-30 years. The government is still lagging behind, but when 83% of the public supports something the politicians and judges will eventually come around.

How did this happen? What makes gun rights so different than our other liberties, which only a minority seem to give a damn about?
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 9:51:26 AM EST
Watch COPS or "the first 48" and you start to think...."hmmm, the cops are just a clean-up crew"
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 9:51:29 AM EST
Fads.

At one time, 83% of American's wore bell-bottoms as well.

Just enjoy the wave right now.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 9:51:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By brasidas:

How did this happen? What makes gun rights so different than our other liberties, which only a minority seem to give a damn about?


I make a point of couching any argument I make in a manner which will appeal to the self serving, and it works. The libs made an appeal to the self serving weak minded. The libs said, "Guns are bad. Guns will kill you. Get rid of guns and you and your children will be safe. The police will protect you." The weak minded responded to that, then it turned out that what the libs were saying was false. The final straw for the weak minded was Katrina, whereinj the government demonstrated just how well it protects everyone. Also, Katrina was on TV, and the weak minded can't really be made to change their minds on simple logic and reason, they need to see it.

Once the weak minded were forced to acknowledge the truth, things began to swing the other way, towards freedom. Once Dear Glorious Leader was elected, the weak minded, seeing serious trouble on the horizon, suddenly began to buy weapons. People who bought weapons don't want them taken away, and so public opinion polls began to reflect this.


Link Posted: 8/3/2009 9:56:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Watch COPS or "the first 48" and you start to think...."hmmm, the cops are just a clean-up crew"


Nice ...

True
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 9:58:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Watch COPS or "the first 48" and you start to think...."hmmm, the cops are just a clean-up crew"


+1

I think also with some places releasing criminals early due to budget restrictions and police departments having to cut the number of officers available it's becoming a big eye opener to folks that yeah, they might have to use a weapon to defend themselves and the best weapon is a gun.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:03:56 AM EST
Because the argument that CCW = protection has been debated and we won.
However, the same cannot yet be said for semi-automatic rifles with full capacity magazines.
It's a shame too considering that governments killed over 100 million people in the 20th century.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:06:28 AM EST
Shame about that other 17%
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:08:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By VBC:
Fads.

At one time, 83% of American's wore bell-bottoms as well.

Just enjoy the wave right now.



Optimism it helps.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:13:00 AM EST
I honestly believe that 9/11 played a big role in shifting public opinion on guns. 9/11 proved that you don't need a big, scary-looking "assault weapon" to kill a lot of people; a box cutter and a 757 loaded with fuel will kill a hell of a lot more people than any firearm could.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:23:32 AM EST
I wonder how low the crime rate would dip if all 83% actually did carry.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:23:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By SIPCAT-C:
Because the argument that CCW = protection has been debated and we won.
However, the same cannot yet be said for semi-automatic rifles with full capacity magazines.
It's a shame too considering that governments killed over 100 million people in the 20th century.


The hit squad that killed that Florida family SCREEEMS 30 round mag home protection.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:27:46 AM EST
To answer the OP question, a lot of people had some bad shit happen to them. Most of those didn't have it coming.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:28:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By JoePatriot:
Originally Posted By SIPCAT-C:
Because the argument that CCW = protection has been debated and we won.
However, the same cannot yet be said for semi-automatic rifles with full capacity magazines.
It's a shame too considering that governments killed over 100 million people in the 20th century.


The hit squad that killed that Florida family SCREEEMS 30 round mag home protection.


I know.
Crimes like that might finally make people realize the personal defense application of a full capacity semi-auto rifle.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:28:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By OFFSHORE:
I wonder how low the crime rate would dip if all 83% actually did carry.


...and all joined ARFCOM.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:30:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 10:30:35 AM EST by Kharn]
Its funny (and sad) when I talk to someone about owning a handgun and they ask if I'm carrying it at that moment. "No, that would be illegal" "Why? You already own it " is the normal response.

Kharn
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:32:19 AM EST
Because we out-firemission the antis?
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:44:44 AM EST
I think a combination of things lead to that poll number. 9/11, Katrina, the worsening ecnomy all contributed.

A big factor in my opinion is the apparent success in reducing crime and the lack of problems with concealed carry laws. It's hard to argue against it, although some people obviously feel the need to "remove all doubt" and display their ignorance to the world by doing so.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 10:55:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:03:03 AM EST
Because all people tend to support their own right to survive. If you ask the Dems/libs if other people in other areas should have concealed carry rights, I'll bet the numbers would be lower.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:16:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Taboot:
Because all people tend to support their own right to survive. If you ask the Dems/libs if other people in other areas should have concealed carry rights, I'll bet the numbers would be lower.


That is a great point. Most people think they would be okay to carry a gun but not their neighbor, or the crazy lady down the street with 12 cats.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:20:57 AM EST
You have to consider how the poll phrases the question. "Currently, 39 states have laws that allow residents to carry firearms to protect themselves, only if they pass a background check and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Most of those states also require applicants to have firearms safety training. Do you support or oppose this law?" sounds very reasonable to most people. Now if they had worded the question "ZOMG - 2 states have no laws preventing pedophiles from putting exploding hollow point cop killer bullets in their pockets in the vicinity of a school where innocent babies are - do you support or oppose this law, because if you support it, you are a pedo too", I think the results would be vastly different.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:23:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By brasidas:
Zogby/O'Leary asked voters:

"Currently, 39 states have laws that allow residents to carry firearms to protect themselves, only if they pass a background check and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Most of those states also require applicants to have firearms safety training. Do you support or oppose this law?"

An overwhelming majority of Americans (83 percent) support concealed-carry laws, while only 11 percent oppose them. A majority of Independent voters (86 percent), Democrats (80 percent), young voters age 18-29 (83 percent), Hispanic voters (80 percent), and those who voted for President Obama (80 percent) support the right to carry a firearm.

While it seems like the country is going to hell at an accelerating pace, the public seems to have decisively come to their senses on the gun issue. There has been a huge turnaround in public opinion in the last 20-30 years. The government is still lagging behind, but when 83% of the public supports something the politicians and judges will eventually come around.

How did this happen? What makes gun rights so different than our other liberties, which only a minority seem to give a damn about?



Because without the 2nd amendment all the other rights arnt worth the paper there wrote on.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:25:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 11:28:24 AM EST by callgood]
Originally Posted By anekrel:
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Watch COPS or "the first 48" and you start to think...."hmmm, the cops are just a clean-up crew"


+1

I think also with some places releasing criminals early due to budget restrictions and police departments having to cut the number of officers available it's becoming a big eye opener to folks that yeah, they might have to use a weapon to defend themselves and the best weapon is a gun.


Jefferson Co, AL is about to implode. Saturday hundreds of county workers were furloughed. At one point a huge chunk of the Sheriff's Dept was slated to walk, but he went to court and got an injunction.

I don't have the details, heard my wife and daughter talking. A young woman from here and her husband were walking in Vestavia (nice community) when 2 dudes cruised by, went on and returned. One got out of the car with a handgun. The guy threw his wallet at the man and the couple took off on foot.

My daughter quoted one of my frequent observations..........

"He shoulda been packin'."

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:28:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Watch COPS or "the first 48" and you start to think...."hmmm, the cops are just a clean-up crew"


+1

If your emergency plan is to call 911 and hope someone gets there in time to save your ass, you're a fool.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:30:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 11:31:18 AM EST by celticmarksman]

Originally Posted By VBC:
Fads.

At one time, 83% of American's wore bell-bottoms as well.

Just enjoy the wave right now.



Parachute pants, way better than bell bottoms

those were the days.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:31:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By brasidas:
Zogby/O'Leary asked voters:

"Currently, 39 states have laws that allow residents to carry firearms to protect themselves, only if they pass a background check and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Most of those states also require applicants to have firearms safety training. Do you support or oppose this law?"

An overwhelming majority of Americans (83 percent) support concealed-carry laws, while only 11 percent oppose them. A majority of Independent voters (86 percent), Democrats (80 percent), young voters age 18-29 (83 percent), Hispanic voters (80 percent), and those who voted for President Obama (80 percent) support the right to carry a firearm.

While it seems like the country is going to hell at an accelerating pace, the public seems to have decisively come to their senses on the gun issue. There has been a huge turnaround in public opinion in the last 20-30 years. The government is still lagging behind, but when 83% of the public supports something the politicians and judges will eventually come around.

How did this happen? What makes gun rights so different than our other liberties, which only a minority seem to give a damn about?


What happened? The Internet happened. Now, stories can't be easily tossed down the memory hole, because the elites don't feel the public is sophisticated enough to apply a "nuanced" interpretation to the facts.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:41:02 AM EST
How do we got the support of the other 17%?
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:41:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By anekrel:
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Watch COPS or "the first 48" and you start to think...."hmmm, the cops are just a clean-up crew"


+1

I think also with some places releasing criminals early due to budget restrictions and police departments having to cut the number of officers available it's becoming a big eye opener to folks that yeah, they might have to use a weapon to defend themselves and the best weapon is a gun.


uhm, no.
the best weapon is me talking to the criminal, trying to reason with him...
if that doesn't work, the next best weapon is a telephone, so I can call the police...


Did anyone hear about the lesbian couple in Seattle a few weeks back?




Lesbian Sister of Tony Award-Winning Actor Murdered in Seattle

Teresa Butz (pictured below), the sister of Tony Award-winning actor Norbert Leo Butz, was stabbed to death by a male intruder at her apartment in the South Park area of Seattle. The intruder gained access to the apartment through an open window. Butz's partner, a 36-year-old woman who is not identified by name, was stabbed during the attack but survived.

The Seattle Times reports:Butz

"The Seattle couple, who had been together about two years, were preparing for a commitment ceremony in September and planned to travel to Barcelona, Spain, to celebrate Teresa's 40th birthday in October, he said...Tim Butz (the victim's brother, pictured) said Teresa's partner told family members that Teresa had sacrificed herself to save the partner's life during the attack. A detective related the same information, he said, but Butz said he couldn't elaborate because of the investigation. A next-door neighbor in South Park, Albert Barrientes, said Tuesday that the two women were able to get outside after the attack. The partner was hysterical, Barrientes said. Teresa Butz, before she died, said of the attacker, 'He told us if we did what he asked us to do he wouldn't hurt us. He lied, he lied,' Barrientes said."
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 11:48:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By maleante:
Originally Posted By anekrel:
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Watch COPS or "the first 48" and you start to think...."hmmm, the cops are just a clean-up crew"


+1

I think also with some places releasing criminals early due to budget restrictions and police departments having to cut the number of officers available it's becoming a big eye opener to folks that yeah, they might have to use a weapon to defend themselves and the best weapon is a gun.


uhm, no.
the best weapon is me talking to the criminal, trying to reason with him...
if that doesn't work, the next best weapon is a telephone, so I can call the police...


Did anyone hear about the lesbian couple in Seattle a few weeks back?




Lesbian Sister of Tony Award-Winning Actor Murdered in Seattle

Teresa Butz (pictured below), the sister of Tony Award-winning actor Norbert Leo Butz, was stabbed to death by a male intruder at her apartment in the South Park area of Seattle. The intruder gained access to the apartment through an open window. Butz's partner, a 36-year-old woman who is not identified by name, was stabbed during the attack but survived.

The Seattle Times reports:Butz

"The Seattle couple, who had been together about two years, were preparing for a commitment ceremony in September and planned to travel to Barcelona, Spain, to celebrate Teresa's 40th birthday in October, he said...Tim Butz (the victim's brother, pictured) said Teresa's partner told family members that Teresa had sacrificed herself to save the partner's life during the attack. A detective related the same information, he said, but Butz said he couldn't elaborate because of the investigation. A next-door neighbor in South Park, Albert Barrientes, said Tuesday that the two women were able to get outside after the attack. The partner was hysterical, Barrientes said. Teresa Butz, before she died, said of the attacker, 'He told us if we did what he asked us to do he wouldn't hurt us. He lied, he lied,' Barrientes said."



I cant even imagine the horror they went thru at the hands of that frikken baboon scum.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:45:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 3:47:56 PM EST by maleante]

I cant even imagine the horror they went thru at the hands of that frikken baboon scum.



A gun would have made their 90 minutes of hell a different story

The 23-year-old man accused of creeping into a South Park home and attacking two women, leaving one dead and the other seriously wounded, could face the death penalty.

Isaiah Kalebu was charged Wednesday with aggravated first-degree murder, attempted first-degree murder, two counts of first-degree rape and first-degree burglary. King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg said his office is weighing whether to seek the death penalty against Kalebu.

He is being held at the King County Jail on $10 million bail.

Satterberg said Kalebu randomly selected Teresa Butz, 39, and her 36-year-old partner as victims.

Kalebu is accused of crawling through their open bathroom window around 1:30 a.m. on July 19, stripping naked and waking the two women with a threat that they would die if they didn't submit to his sexual demands, according to court charging papers filed Wednesday.

The women were raped repeatedly and a butcher knife was pressed against their throats. During the course of the 90-minute attack the women were slashed on their necks and cut on their arms, Satterberg said.

"As he would rape one woman, he would cut the other," Satterberg said. "It was a nightmare, but it was all too real."

When Butz fought back by kicking her attacker off the bed she was punched in the face, prosecutors said. Butz then was stabbed in the chest and arm but somehow managed to hurl a nightstand out the bedroom window, charging papers said. Butz leapt out the window, creating enough of a distraction for her partner to run out the front door.

Kalebu then escaped through the same window he came in through, prosecutors said.

Once outside the house, the two naked women screamed for help. Neighbors rushed to them, but Butz was pronounced dead in the street, Satterberg said. Butz's partner has been released from the hospital and has talked with police about the attack.

Once Kalebu is arraigned on the charges Aug. 12, Satterberg has 30 days to decide whether he will seek the death penalty. The 30-day deadline, which is required under state law, could potentially be pushed back if Kalebu's defense attorneys need more time to prepare, said Dan Donohoe, spokesman for Satterberg.

Satterberg said his office will consider a number of factors before deciding whether to pursue the death penalty, including Kalebu's mental state at the time of the attack. Last year, Kalebu was diagnosed as being bipolar.




Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:53:38 PM EST
I think it is a mature society's response to violence. If you look at the history of our RKBA it arose in societies in constant threat of violence and invasion. The Greeks and Romans were at constant threat of invasion, and in England the formation was really in response to the Viking threat. In these instances the threat was so pervasive that small groups of elite soldiers were not sufficient. I think the wave of gun control you saw beginning in the 60s was an immature panic response to violence. "OMG! Ban the guns and stop the criminals!" Well, that hasn't worked at all, and many people are waking up to the reality that the cops show up in time to pick up the bodies and hopefully make an arrest. I think Europe will go a similar way as the immigrant populations turn their cities into combat zones as ours are.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:55:17 PM EST
Thinking like a liberal elitist: "83%? Guess we'll have to sneak gun control through on another bill or get it done through the U.N."
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 1:46:48 AM EST
Isaiah Kalebu was charged Wednesday with aggravated first-degree murder, attempted first-degree murder, two counts of first-degree rape and first-degree burglary. King County Prosecutor Dan Satterberg said his office is weighing whether to seek the death penalty against Kalebu.


W.T.F.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 1:52:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By brasidas:
Zogby/O'Leary asked voters:

"Currently, 39 states have laws that allow residents to carry firearms to protect themselves, only if they pass a background check and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Most of those states also require applicants to have firearms safety training. Do you support or oppose this law?"

An overwhelming majority of Americans (83 percent) support concealed-carry laws, while only 11 percent oppose them. A majority of Independent voters (86 percent), Democrats (80 percent), young voters age 18-29 (83 percent), Hispanic voters (80 percent), and those who voted for President Obama (80 percent) support the right to carry a firearm.

Bullshit. I don't buy that for a second. They (most of them) support the ability to carry a gun themselves. They do not support the RIGHT to carry.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 2:21:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By SlowOne:
Thinking like a liberal elitist: "83%? Guess we'll have to sneak gun control through on another bill or get it done through the U.N."


Yeah, the new regime would see this figure as an opportunity to be creative.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 2:23:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By brasidas:
Zogby/O'Leary asked voters:

"Currently, 39 states have laws that allow residents to carry firearms to protect themselves, only if they pass a background check and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Most of those states also require applicants to have firearms safety training. Do you support or oppose this law?"

An overwhelming majority of Americans (83 percent) support concealed-carry laws, while only 11 percent oppose them. A majority of Independent voters (86 percent), Democrats (80 percent), young voters age 18-29 (83 percent), Hispanic voters (80 percent), and those who voted for President Obama (80 percent) support the right to carry a firearm.

While it seems like the country is going to hell at an accelerating pace, the public seems to have decisively come to their senses on the gun issue. There has been a huge turnaround in public opinion in the last 20-30 years. The government is still lagging behind, but when 83% of the public supports something the politicians and judges will eventually come around.

How did this happen? What makes gun rights so different than our other liberties, which only a minority seem to give a damn about?

I can hold a gun in my hand. I can't hold privacy in my hands nor can I hold the ability to not self incriminate myself in my hands and physically see it.

Also, I would hardly say that gun rights are something that are always given a damn about. For many years other "rights" have been given a damn about far more than the 2nd Amendment. Only in the past five to ten years has the 2nd Amendment and gun rights in general started to become more mainstream. Even now it is far more radical to to support gun rights than to support abortion rights to many.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 2:34:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By g3shooter:
How do we got the support of the other 17%?


I think having 17 - 20% of the populace totally against weapons and disarmed is fine. You don't want everybody running around with a gun during a disaster. There needs to be some sheep willing to "pay" for protection.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 2:41:19 AM EST
The question is kind of ambiguous. This is why I hate polls.
It didn't simple ask "do you support concealed carry laws?" it throws in all that extra crap about background checks and training which confuses the issue. For all we know, people thought the poll was asking if they supported such requirements for CCW licenses.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 2:44:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Nlinc:
The question is kind of ambiguous. This is why I hate polls.
It didn't simple ask "do you support concealed carry laws?" it throws in all that extra crap about background checks and training which confuses the issue. For all we know, people thought the poll was asking if they supported such requirements for CCW licenses.

I agree. There is no way, at this time, that 80%+ of the US supports the right to carry a conceal handgun.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:11:04 AM EST

'He told us if we did what he asked us to do he wouldn't hurt us. He lied, he lied,'

This is the sound of someone coming to grips with how people ACTUALLY are, not how they wish them to be. It's a shame she had to learn like this.

And I join the ranks of those that seriously doubt 83% of Americans support carry rights.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:11:11 AM EST
Not to hijack, but the latest shortage I've experienced is holsters. More than a few of the holster makers are experiencing backlogs or simply not taking any new orders right now. Obviously, more people are carrying. I wonder what the figures would be without a recession?
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 3:22:00 AM EST
I am a CCDW instructor here in Ky and recently have seen a huge upswing in phone calls and emails about the ccdw class. I saw a guy wearing an Obama shirt asking another instructor at Knob Creek about the CCDW class.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 4:15:58 AM EST

Zogby/O'Leary asked voters:

"Currently, 39 states have laws that allow residents to carry firearms to protect themselves, only if they pass a background check and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Most of those states also require applicants to have firearms safety training. Do you support or oppose this law?"

An overwhelming majority of Americans (83 percent) support concealed-carry laws, while only 11 percent oppose them. A majority of Independent voters (86 percent), Democrats (80 percent), young voters age 18-29 (83 percent), Hispanic voters (80 percent), and those who voted for President Obama (80 percent) support the right to carry a firearm.


Okay, this is definitely good news but I want to point a couple of things out before the champagne is opened.

The phrasing of this poll is heavily weighted in favor of the result it got. When presented with the extra information "pass a background check, pay fee, safety training, etc" the answer most people will go for is clear.

If it were phrased in a more neutral way the result might not have been as overwhelming. Not to say that the information provided in the question is inaccurate - but whoever worded that poll had the desired result in mind before anyone responded.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 4:30:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By SlowOne:
Thinking like a liberal elitist: "83%? Guess we'll have to sneak gun control through on another bill or get it done through the U.N."


No, it is just a failure to 'get our message out'. (Read: We haven't indoctrinated these idiots properly. More money and propaganda to the elementary schools! )

TC

Link Posted: 8/4/2009 4:33:06 AM EST
Others beat me to it, but 9/11 was a huge turning point. Average people realized that the world was a dangerous place and we weren't safe.

As far as 17% not supporting it....I always figure that a Playboy centerfold would get a 70/30 split on a hot or not poll, so 83% is unanimous in my mind.

I bet 83% of the public didn't carry a gun in the old West.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 4:41:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rivaltm:

Zogby/O'Leary asked voters:

"Currently, 39 states have laws that allow residents to carry firearms to protect themselves, only if they pass a background check and pay a fee to cover administrative costs. Most of those states also require applicants to have firearms safety training. Do you support or oppose this law?"

An overwhelming majority of Americans (83 percent) support concealed-carry laws, while only 11 percent oppose them. A majority of Independent voters (86 percent), Democrats (80 percent), young voters age 18-29 (83 percent), Hispanic voters (80 percent), and those who voted for President Obama (80 percent) support the right to carry a firearm.


Okay, this is definitely good news but I want to point a couple of things out before the champagne is opened.

The phrasing of this poll is heavily weighted in favor of the result it got. When presented with the extra information "pass a background check, pay fee, safety training, etc" the answer most people will go for is clear.

If it were phrased in a more neutral way the result might not have been as overwhelming. Not to say that the information provided in the question is inaccurate - but whoever worded that poll had the desired result in mind before anyone responded.

Someone understands statistics and polling.

Link Posted: 8/4/2009 4:44:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Watch COPS or "the first 48" and you start to think...."hmmm, the cops are just a clean-up crew"


This is exactly right–– my mother-in-law is visiting from Mass; in all respects she's liberal...except guns. She pointed out just yesterday that "it's good to know that people like you have the right to carry weapons, it just makes me feel better." I knew she supported gun rights, but I was a little surprised that she had thought enough about it to realize that cops just can't be everywhere, and bad things happen. Most folks in her part of the country look to public services for just about everything, as does she much of the time, but on this issue, I believe her views are representative of many folks from all parts of the political spectrum.

There are a lot of factors playing into this shift of mentality–– my M-i-L specifically mentioned cop dramas as one thing that has influenced her thinking. Let's not forget about the efforts of the NRA, I'm feeling like my contributions to the PVF have been a good value.

So, after a little more conversation on the topic we have a new plan for our activities today: I'm taking my ultra liberal M-i-L gun shopping this morning–– she got one look at my XD and said, "That would be nice to have in my camper when driving across country." Will wonders never cease?
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 8:12:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Prime:

'He told us if we did what he asked us to do he wouldn't hurt us. He lied, he lied,'

This is the sound of someone coming to grips with how people ACTUALLY are, not how they wish them to be. It's a shame she had to learn like this.

And I join the ranks of those that seriously doubt 83% of Americans support carry rights.


Oh, I doubt it's anywhere close to 83%, but we have enough numbers on our side to beat back the gun ban fanatics, in spite of the fact that the media is constantly harping on mass shootings in the hopes of creating more copycats.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 8:30:38 PM EST
About six months ago I was excoriated as a naive Pollyanna for pointing out that gun control as a political issue was dead, and that the Democrats would not dare even touch it.

Well, now we see one reason why there is no Assault Weapons ban in the works and the Dems are so eager to act like they support the Second Amendment.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 8:40:41 PM EST
Yet two of the most populated states (NY and CA) will NEVER allow a uniform "shall issue" system.

Even if compelled to do so by federal law, they would ignore it (like NY ignores the FOPA).

So 83% support it, but once again, the politicians ignore the will of the people.
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