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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/14/2004 9:18:26 AM EST
Airwolf made a quote in the thread www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=283916


whenever you start to get high population densities, you start getting "liberal creep".


This seems pretty true. Its seems like urban areas are usually pretty liberal, suburbia is mixed and the country is pretty right wing. Why is this?

Airwolf, if you feel misquoted, just tell me and I'll delete it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:26:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
Airwolf made a quote in the thread www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=283916


whenever you start to get high population densities, you start getting "liberal creep".


This seems pretty true. Its seems like urban areas are usually pretty liberal, suburbia is mixed and the country is pretty right wing. Why is this?

Airwolf, if you feel misquoted, just tell me and I'll delete it.




Best guess, without any stastics or available evidence to support my position at the moment I would say the following:

Country folks that live in the rural area are used to depending on themselves. Thus they hold individual rights near and dear to their hearts. They don't need nor want a government to step in and tell them how to live their lives. Nor do they give a rats ass what their neighbor does on his own property because it's like a half mile down the road.

Suburban people are mixed because, well quite simply it's not the city and it's not the country. So you get some of everything in there.

Urban centers have all sorts of people poking their nose into each others business because you live about 6 inches away from them. (average width of a wall I'm guessing is probably a little more, but you get the idea) They want "group" harmony. Peace, love, all that crap because their neighbor's behavior greatly impacts them. Thus we end up with the socialist agenda. "You need to live my way because it makes me happy." They are like kids. Children are naturally egocentric. They haven't learned to think any other way yet. They only see things from their own point of view.

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:28:25 AM EST
That's easy. The more population and the less property ownership, the more reliance on services and the more toleration for taxes(due to the the percepetion of service). Take animal rights. When living in the country, or suburbia for that matter, you see farms, hunting, and roadkill all the time. Death and the heirarchy of life is a part of things. In the city, when a squirrel or pigeon is killed in the daily engine of society, many of permanent city dwellers are appalled.

Urban areas are not all bad, the social scene is excellent. Live there for a while, then bail out...
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:30:37 AM EST
Intelligence stands out in a crowd.

Ignorance clots & coagulates.

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:32:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:
Intelligence stands out in a crowd.

Ignorance clots & coagulates.




Don't laugh buddy boy, I know some country folk that think that rock & roll is the devils work...
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:34:01 AM EST
I think drache is right and add to it that city people don't feel threatened (other than a car wreck or a mugging). If their family has been in an urban area for generations then it becomes easier to feel secure about most things.

A lack of history education in our schools may have as much or more to do with it though. Not much can happen to us that hasn't already happened to someone else in history. I was taught to rememeber dates and crap in school, but never the real story. It would change society if everyone knew even a little history I think...
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:34:22 AM EST
You cannot say this with certanty right now becuase we are in the midst of a transition. How much of the last 50 years of liberal dominance is because of liberal dominiance of the availble means of information?

With Merger Mania having drasticly cut their own numbers, the TV networks and Newspapers are now faced with the attack of the Internet.

How much of the big liberal power in the urban area is from their dominance of the means of information in the past is now going to be determined.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:36:21 AM EST
It's true.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:37:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
Airwolf made a quote in the thread www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=283916

whenever you start to get high population densities, you start getting "liberal creep".



Because of the way markets function. Higher population density tends to put all material wants closer at hand. Convenience breeds impatience, and the difficult processes that bring goods to markets are quickly forgotten. City dwellers usually live atop the more efficient markets, and they eventually take that efficiency for granted. They quickly assume it is natural, and lose sight of how it happens. That thinking is quickly transferred to areas of public policy - where common desires for 'compassion' are translated into leftist political views from that same impatience.


Or, like stuffing more rats into a cage, they just start to go nuts. I like that one better.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:38:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
That's easy. The more population and the less property ownership, the more reliance on services and the more toleration for taxes(due to the the percepetion of service). Take animal rights. When living in the country, or suburbia for that matter, you see farms, hunting, and roadkill all the time. Death and the heirarchy of life is a part of things. In the city, when a squirrel or pigeon is killed in the daily engine of society, many of permanent city dwellers are appalled.

Urban areas are not all bad, the social scene is excellent. Live there for a while, then bail out...



Yea gotta agree with the fact that more reliance on services could equaly the tolerance of higher taxes and more government power. Not sure about the animal rights things though, if you see a dead animal in NYC no one notices and it just sits there till a street sweeper picks it up. Death in city live seems a whole lot liad back. In smaller communities one mans death seems to really effect the population. While in the city its like "Hey, joe from down the block got shot", "That sucks, wanna hit up the bar?"
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:43:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
You cannot say this with certanty right now becuase we are in the midst of a transition. How much of the last 50 years of liberal dominance is because of liberal dominiance of the availble means of information?

With Merger Mania having drasticly cut their own numbers, the TV networks and Newspapers are now faced with the attack of the Internet.

How much of the big liberal power in the urban area is from their dominance of the means of information in the past is now going to be determined.



Good point. I have a nephew in college (admittedly in TX but) he swears that there are more conservative minded students than anyone would imagine. Information access does change things.

All news being filtered through through NYC can't be a good thing
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:47:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By RustyTX:
All news being filtered through through NYC can't be a good thing



Dan Rather would disagree.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:49:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By garandman:
Intelligence stands out in a crowd.

Ignorance clots & coagulates.




Don't laugh buddy boy, I know some country folk that think that rock & roll is the devils work...



Let take a tlook at that -

R&R espouses free love (promiscuity) violence (gangsta rap) mocks God (Stairway to heaven) glamorizes abuse of drugs and alcohol (1970's music culture) and a whole host of things that God is NOT infavor of.

Things God is against Satan is largely for. Is R&R the work of Satan? I dunno, but I am SURE Satan is for what much of R&R glamorizes.

But if you REALLY wanna discuss this, start a new topic. Let;s neither of us hijack this one.

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 9:55:13 AM EST
You really describe the root of the division in this country.
Just about every state has at least one large metro area which dominates politics and elections in their states and thereby also the nation. Hence the electoral college in the US Const. But the bottom line is that the cities force their agenda on the ruaral areas, against their will, and suck 'em dry for tax money. The rural people don't really like have the city assholes around, nor do they like them meddling in their affairs and stealing their fucking money. The city assholes see us as hicks who aren't smart enough to figure out what is really best ofr us. Or maybe I should say them.

It is an interesting perspective to live where I do. Northern WI resort area with about 100% too many assholes from Chicago. The merchants want their money but I will be honest and say that no one up here can stand the FIBs.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 10:05:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By garandman:
Intelligence stands out in a crowd.

Ignorance clots & coagulates.




Don't laugh buddy boy, I know some country folk that think that rock & roll is the devils work...



Let take a tlook at that -

R&R espouses free love (promiscuity) violence (gangsta rap) mocks God (Stairway to heaven) glamorizes abuse of drugs and alcohol (1970's music culture) and a whole host of things that God is NOT infavor of.

Things God is against Satan is largely for. Is R&R the work of Satan? I dunno, but I am SURE Satan is for what much of R&R glamorizes.

But if you REALLY wanna discuss this, start a new topic. Let;s neither of us hijack this one.




[wayne] "No Stairway... Denied!" [/wayne]
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 10:11:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By RustyTX:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
You cannot say this with certanty right now becuase we are in the midst of a transition. How much of the last 50 years of liberal dominance is because of liberal dominiance of the availble means of information?

With Merger Mania having drasticly cut their own numbers, the TV networks and Newspapers are now faced with the attack of the Internet.

How much of the big liberal power in the urban area is from their dominance of the means of information in the past is now going to be determined.



Good point. I have a nephew in college (admittedly in TX but) he swears that there are more conservative minded students than anyone would imagine. Information access does change things.



Interestingly, the College Republicans here claim that they are bigger then College Democrats and all the other Lib organizations put together. I haven't investigated it, but it seems surprisingly realistic.

IMHO, the former Mainstream Media is losing ground steadily to more conservative Cable News and especially the Internet. Cable News probably isn't that big of a growth area, but the Internet is steadily growing all over the world. More and more people are getting computers, internet access, and high-speed internet access. The thing about the Internet is that everyone has a much greater ability to speak and be heard around the world then ever before. The days of all news, and through it public opinion, being shaped through a handful of news anchors are on the way out, and they're not coming back.

The Liberals recognize this danger, and have tried to censor and regulate the Internet, but they have failed, and they're getting more and more desperate about it. Give us another 10 or 20 years, and I think we'll start to see some real change.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 10:52:10 AM EST
I am here at school at UWM in Milwaukee and there is a town that I have to drive through to get here. The town is somewhat large (larger than I am used to), but it seems peaceful enough. As I drive through there, I just get a 'sense' of total liberlism at work in that town. Maybe its because their shops are stuff like 'the vegan store' or because there are Kerry signs everywhere. But even the people, you can just tell...

Its out in the country for me. Peaceful nights (no sirens, cars, loud neighbors), dark at night (no lights and crap), dont have to worry too much about crime (much less frequent).
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 10:54:17 AM EST
Airwolf is right, liberals abound in the urban environment, where life depends on gov't services.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 11:16:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 11:33:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By brasspile:
Hmmm.. Might be onto something....


www.mountaintop.org/ar/bushcountry.jpg



If you look at PA you will see that blue is only on the extreme left part of the state (Pittsburgh, Erie, Beaver areas) and the extreme right side of the state (Philly, up through Allentown, etc.) The major cities and populated areas voted Gore, the less populated or less "city" like areas voted Bush. With just those small areas PA was taken by Gore. What does that tell you?

Unfortunately for me I am in the blue zone.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 11:36:42 AM EST
High population means lots of public service employees and their unions, as well as much more minorities.

I live in a liberal county in MD, but there are plenty of conservative and Republicans around, just less than 50 percent.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 11:48:41 AM EST
I've seen that map displayed a thousand times by wing nuts to try and feel good about themselves saying "see look at all the red we own this country!" but let me tell you it's total bullshit!!! Showing a geographical map Based on 'winner take all' elections by county does'nt mean anything!!! According to that map one might think that not one 'blue vote' was cast in the entire state of Utah. But is this so? NO! Also keep in mind that since 1900 about 85 % of Americans live in either a suburb or urban area so there is going to be blue density around certain areas as opposed to others. You wanna know the true numbers? Just look at the national polls, it's about 40% DEM/REP, 20% independant and thats the 50 % who bother to vote. As for the other 50% , Im sure all the 'red' people will think they are 'red' and the 'blue's' will think the same thing. it's basic simple mathematics.

PS- As I write this im leaving to go get a Mauser 98k with a big Waffen amp on it!!! so I won't be back to reply till my 'nics' check clears and all that crap!! Wish me luck! See ya!
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 11:53:19 AM EST
First, the city offers jobs, services, and cheap housing for the poor.
Next, only idiot freaks would want to live there.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 11:58:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 12:10:06 PM EST by brasspile]
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 12:03:01 PM EST
What Einstien put that map together. The two cities listed in VA are Blacksburg and Wakefield. Wakefield is nothing, I'm not even sure it's incorporated. Blacksburg, where I lived for 4 years, is much larger, but still isn't even close to a 'city'.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 12:08:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 12:30:01 PM EST
Nice thread! Thanks for picking it up and running with it Mmanwitgun!

As for brasspile's maps, some things stand out for me.

Look at SW Texas along the river. Is the Texas "problem" caused by illegal immigration in that area since the population density is low or is there another factor at work?

Look at NM. We've had a thread recently about NM and the consensus was that the state gets FAR more in .gov money than they contribute in taxes and that the blue areas are a bastion of liberals.

Also notice San Diego. We're red and quite densely populated (on the west side). I think what's in play here is that we are a military town and have a very high percentage of retired .mil here.

The Flagstaff area is another. Population density is low but you have Sedona and NAU in Flagstaff tipping the scales.

Not ALWAYS population density causing the outcome but it would appear that it's a major factor in it.

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 12:38:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
Nice thread! Thanks for picking it up and running with it Mmanwitgun!

As for brasspile's maps, some things stand out for me.

Look at SW Texas along the river. Is the Texas "problem" caused by illegal immigration in that area since the population density is low or is there another factor at work?

Look at NM. We've had a thread recently about NM and the consensus was that the state gets FAR more in .gov money than they contribute in taxes and that the blue areas are a bastion of liberals.

Also notice San Diego. We're red and quite densely populated (on the west side). I think what's in play here is that we are a military town and have a very high percentage of retired .mil here.

The Flagstaff area is another. Population density is low but you have Sedona and NAU in Flagstaff tipping the scales.

Not ALWAYS population density causing the outcome but it would appear that it's a major factor in it.





Yes, also ... look at the blue concentration in the Mississippi river delta region. Some the most poverty stricken counties(and parishs) in the country are in that area. as you pointed out above, It's an "entitlement" issues as well.

Where you see the welfare system is where you will see poeple voting for liberals who promise to give them something and not insist they try self-improvement.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 12:45:57 PM EST
SW VA and SE WV are very rural as well, however they have a high union contingent because of the coal mines and they have been receiving government handouts since LBJ
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 12:56:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
SW VA and SE WV are very rural as well, however they have a high union contingent because of the coal mines and they have been receiving government handouts since LBJ



Interesting point, as it accents the Democratic agenda well. In WV, a friend of mine said he lived in rural central WV as a child. He said that LBJ came one year and told them they were poor. He said he and his family were shocked. They didn't know they were poor until LBJ said they were. They were never hungry, or wanted for anything. One day the Democratic party came in and told them that they could have more, and that the GOV. would give i to them. That's what caused all the contention in WV. Luckily out where I live, everyone is very conservative and Republican. They saw the handout for what it was.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 2:54:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 2:55:03 PM EST by brasspile]
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:04:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By drache:

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
Airwolf made a quote in the thread www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=283916


whenever you start to get high population densities, you start getting "liberal creep".


This seems pretty true. Its seems like urban areas are usually pretty liberal, suburbia is mixed and the country is pretty right wing. Why is this?

Airwolf, if you feel misquoted, just tell me and I'll delete it.




Best guess, without any stastics or available evidence to support my position at the moment I would say the following:

Country folks that live in the rural area are used to depending on themselves. Thus they hold individual rights near and dear to their hearts. They don't need nor want a government to step in and tell them how to live their lives. Nor do they give a rats ass what their neighbor does on his own property because it's like a half mile down the road.

Suburban people are mixed because, well quite simply it's not the city and it's not the country. So you get some of everything in there.

Urban centers have all sorts of people poking their nose into each others business because you live about 6 inches away from them. (average width of a wall I'm guessing is probably a little more, but you get the idea) They want "group" harmony. Peace, love, all that crap because their neighbor's behavior greatly impacts them. Thus we end up with the socialist agenda. "You need to live my way because it makes me happy." They are like kids. Children are naturally egocentric. They haven't learned to think any other way yet. They only see things from their own point of view.






I've felt this way for years, even though I have nothing to back it up with.
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