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Posted: 3/26/2009 10:45:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 1:44:47 PM EST by DueNorth]
Ordered 2000 rounds of advertised XM193 Lake City, head stamp ammo in 5.56. It arrived today and it is AE223BK, no head stamp. AE223BK is not XM193 from my understanding, nor is it Lake City ammo. Am I correct in assuming I was lied to? Or, am I missing something.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 10:48:34 AM EST
Sounds like American Eagle 55gr .223, not M193.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 10:50:38 AM EST

As I recall, AE223BK is Federal American Eagle ammo... certainly not the equivalent to LC XM193... Back in the day that's what I called my cheap junk ammo...

Sorry to hear about the switch...

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 10:55:35 AM EST
sportsmans guide?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 10:56:57 AM EST
It's good stuff, but NOT the same. I'd demand a partial refund.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 10:58:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By DarkStar:

As I recall, AE223BK is Federal American Eagle ammo... certainly not the equivalent to LC XM193... Back in the day that's what I called my cheap junk ammo...

Sorry to hear about the switch...



Holy shit, I'd be fucking outraged.

Seriously I might personally return it 3 states away just so I could fight the bastards.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:00:54 AM EST
You ordered XM193 and did not get XM193. I would be pissed.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:02:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By MossyOakMan:
You ordered XM193 and did not get XM193. I would be pissed.


THIS, big time!
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:02:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By DueNorth:
Ordered 2000 rounds of advertised XM193 Lake City, head stamp ammo in 5.56. It arrived today and it is AE223BK, no head stamp. AE223BK is not XM193 from my understanding, nor is it Lake City ammo. Am I correct in assuming I was lied to? Or, am I missing something.


Care to share where you ordered it from??
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:04:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By DueNorth:
Ordered 2000 rounds of advertised XM193 Lake City, head stamp ammo in 5.56. It arrived today and it is AE223BK, no head stamp. AE223BK is not XM193 from my understanding, nor is it Lake City ammo. Am I correct in assuming I was lied to? Or, am I missing something.

No head stamp at all?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:05:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 11:07:58 AM EST by scrum]
AE223 is NOT XM193. I'm concerned that the ammo has no headstamp at all because it might not even be AE223 - it could even be reman ammo.

I would assume mistake, unless you bought it off the EE from someone who should know better. Either way, a return (at the sellers expense) or a partial refund is definitely in order.

I try in life not to assume someone is trying to rip me off, because usually it's not intentional. If from a store, they might have shipped the incorrect item. If from an individual, well some folks are just stupid/uneducated and they assume X = Y when it doesn't. If someone really has tried to rip you off, and won't rectify the problem ASAP, then please let us all know who it is so we can avoid dealing with that person and add them to the ARFCOM Blacklist.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:05:54 AM EST
Send it back on their dime for a full refund. If they give you shit call your card company and dispute the charge.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:06:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By KerryW:

Originally Posted By DueNorth:
Ordered 2000 rounds of advertised XM193 Lake City, head stamp ammo in 5.56. It arrived today and it is AE223BK, no head stamp. AE223BK is not XM193 from my understanding, nor is it Lake City ammo. Am I correct in assuming I was lied to? Or, am I missing something.

No head stamp at all?


sounds odd to me too.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:07:26 AM EST
WTF?

AE brass is SHIT.
I'd be mighty pisses, as it's a looooong way from XM193.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:07:38 AM EST
if its as you say, it is clearly a mistake or outright fraud. give them a chance to corect; I would recommend that they send for pick up of the ammo (all you have to do is tape the box and put it back on your doorstep, shipper will pick it up at biz's expense. If you want to keep it, perhaps even in addition to getting some LC, request expedited shipment of the product you ordered, and a negotiated price of the ammo you were sent (the current market price, minus what it costs to ship it back to them - this is for your inconvenience, and puts them where they should have been). The thing is where you should be - you should have your proper ammo already, thre is a time value to money, and to your time hassling with this; so that 's whay the request for a discount of the cost of shipping it back to them and free expedited shipping ont eh next order is a reasonable request. As tough as it is in this market to get ammo and the extra waiting periods, one can understand mistakes, but reasonable customer service should not go out the window.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:07:58 AM EST
I've got some AE "Tactical" XM193.

LC 08 headstamp, no nato mark.


sounds like you got some 223 rounds.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:08:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 11:09:10 AM EST by DueNorth]
Yes, I can share. It was USamorment. I already contacted my credit card company and made them aware of the issue.

ETA it has a 223 Rem head stamp.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:08:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:09:49 AM EST
Ok, you specified it was "advertised" as XM193, did you place a phone order or an order over the 'net? if you did it over the 'net, hopefully you printed out the invoice? If nothing on paper (phone order) and it's specified correctly on the copy of the invoice you received with the order, then you may have trouble resolving the issue, unless the company is one that aknowledges mistakes. Check the invoice or if you saved it on the pc and see if it specifies XM193, if it does, case closed, get refund for the difference or return it on their dime for full refund.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:15:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 11:17:25 AM EST by DueNorth]
I have the invoice, packaging invoice, and the shipping slip that all say XM193 Lake City. So, I have a good case. I have been with this credit card company for a long time, they should resolve it no problem.

By no head stamp, I mean no Lake City head stamp. I compared to to my other XM193, this has no sealent (the black tar) at the top and the brass looks a lot different.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:29:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 11:30:29 AM EST by Ghost013]
Originally Posted By DueNorth:
Yes, I can share. It was USamorment. I already contacted my credit card company and made them aware of the issue.

ETA it has a 223 Rem head stamp.




On list not to buy from....Did you call them?? (just googled the name you provided and found nothing...)
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:34:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By bigshooter81:
Originally Posted By DarkStar:

As I recall, AE223BK is Federal American Eagle ammo... certainly not the equivalent to LC XM193... Back in the day that's what I called my cheap junk ammo...

Sorry to hear about the switch...



Holy shit, I'd be fucking outraged.

Seriously I might personally return it 3 states away just so I could fight the bastards.


yup
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:35:52 AM EST
Did you call them and ask??

Before you go off the deep end, you may want to find out if it was a simple mistake on their part or if they were trying to scam you.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:35:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:43:28 AM EST
Well that makes it very clear as to what you were supposed to get.....Ya I'd be pissed, you need to call them.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:48:08 AM EST
Their web site says XM193 Lake City ammo. This is fishy! Buy the way they are now out.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:52:09 AM EST
Did you forget to mention something in-between "I got the wrong ammo' and "I'm complaining to my credit card company"?

Because filing a complaint and trying to get the charges reversed when you haven't even talked to the vendor yet is lame. If it was a mistake, why can't you give them a chance to fix it?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:54:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By DueNorth:
Yes, I can share. It was USamorment. I already contacted my credit card company and made them aware of the issue.

ETA it has a 223 Rem head stamp.

WTF?

Thats not even American Eagle. I think you got remans/reloads..
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 12:07:15 PM EST
Chances are that if you have to ask wether or not you've been ripped off, you have.

Any contact with that company yet? I'd hear them out before I went to the cc company.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 12:07:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 12:16:17 PM EST by DueNorth]
Originally Posted By Pegdraggin:
Did you forget to mention something in-between "I got the wrong ammo' and "I'm complaining to my credit card company"?

Because filing a complaint and trying to get the charges reversed when you haven't even talked to the vendor yet is lame. If it was a mistake, why can't you give them a chance to fix it?

I called the company and they are not answering the phone. I sent an email at about noon. Three hours of stewing and I called my CC company. This is not a small amount of money. All my credit card company will do is stop payment till the problem is resolved. This is not just a few dollars. For my wife and I this is a lot of money. Swift action gets swift results.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 12:09:37 PM EST
Someone else posted this same exact situation about a week or so ago.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 12:11:15 PM EST
Damn bro I hope you get it straightened out
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 12:15:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By DueNorth:
I have the invoice, packaging invoice, and the shipping slip that all say XM193 Lake City. So, I have a good case. I have been with this credit card company for a long time, they should resolve it no problem.

By no head stamp, I mean no Lake City head stamp. I compared to to my other XM193, this has no sealent (the black tar) at the top and the brass looks a lot different.


The vendor needs to make things right, it's as simple as that. Either they can refund the difference or you send it all back on their dime.

Since someone mentioned Sportsman's Guide:

A couple of years ago, I ordered some Hungarian 7.62X54R and got Albanian instead. They have a NO REFUNDS policy on ammo. It was clearly a mistake on their part and they mailed me return labels and refunded me everything.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 12:23:13 PM EST
Looks like they ran out since it says "On Order" probably just sent you what they had laying around hoping you would go away.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 12:31:21 PM EST
Another vendor down.

People are getting desperate.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 12:33:29 PM EST
The guy just called me on the phone. He says that it was not a mistake, that they are American Eagle xm193. I said they are not. AE223BK is on the box and that is not Lake City XM193. I have received Lake City in brown box, black box, and bulk; none of the boxes have ever had AE223BK on the box. Infact, if you google AE223BK you get multible listings for American Eagle .223, not XM193. He said if I am not happy he will send me a return label after a short debate. I said, sounds great.

Problem resolved, but beware of USarmorment.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 12:35:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 12:36:34 PM EST by jmarkma]
Wow, what bs. That kinda shit needs to get you blacklisted.

ETA: That's not even bait and switch but outright fraud.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:02:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By DueNorth:
The guy just called me on the phone. He says that it was not a mistake, that they are American Eagle xm193. I said they are not. AE223BK is on the box and that is not Lake City XM193. I have received Lake City in brown box, black box, and bulk; none of the boxes have ever had AE223BK on the box. Infact, if you google AE223BK you get multible listings for American Eagle .223, not XM193. He said if I am not happy he will send me a return label after a short debate. I said, sounds great.

Problem resolved, but beware of USarmorment.

There is more to it than that.

We need to know exactly what the headstamp said. Earlier you said it only said REM on it. Seems really odd.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:08:16 PM EST
Post pics.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:09:36 PM EST
pics of the ammo and packaging should rule out any confusion
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:09:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:

Originally Posted By DueNorth:
The guy just called me on the phone. He says that it was not a mistake, that they are American Eagle xm193. I said they are not. AE223BK is on the box and that is not Lake City XM193. I have received Lake City in brown box, black box, and bulk; none of the boxes have ever had AE223BK on the box. Infact, if you google AE223BK you get multible listings for American Eagle .223, not XM193. He said if I am not happy he will send me a return label after a short debate. I said, sounds great.

Problem resolved, but beware of USarmorment.

There is more to it than that.

We need to know exactly what the headstamp said. Earlier you said it only said REM on it. Seems really odd.


No shit.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:15:22 PM EST
Is armorment a word?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:21:21 PM EST
Tag
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:24:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By MACD:
Is armorment a word?




Nope, but armament is. Major fail.

OP, post pics of what you got. If this guy is scamming we all need to know.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:25:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 1:30:06 PM EST by AeroE]
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:26:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:

Originally Posted By DueNorth:
The guy just called me on the phone. He says that it was not a mistake, that they are American Eagle xm193. I said they are not. AE223BK is on the box and that is not Lake City XM193. I have received Lake City in brown box, black box, and bulk; none of the boxes have ever had AE223BK on the box. Infact, if you google AE223BK you get multible listings for American Eagle .223, not XM193. He said if I am not happy he will send me a return label after a short debate. I said, sounds great.

Problem resolved, but beware of USarmorment.

There is more to it than that.

We need to know exactly what the headstamp said. Earlier you said it only said REM on it. Seems really odd.
I never said it only had Rem on it. I said Rem.223. Thats all the head stamp says. AE223BK is what the case says.

Hold on while I upload the pics. I am not good at this.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:27:54 PM EST
i'll give you $200 for it

just kidding.

that really sucks- that AE stuff, while ok ammo, is NOT close to 193 at all.

glad they're at least kind of making it right.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:38:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 1:41:10 PM EST by DueNorth]
I hope this works, I could not get a good picture of the head stamp, but it say Rem.223.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:42:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 1:43:35 PM EST by DueNorth]
Here is the best I can do on a head stamp. My camera sucks.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:43:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 1:46:28 PM EST by schizrade]


What you should have.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 1:46:50 PM EST
Oh yes, he fucked you.

I am glad that he is un-fucking his $860+ shennanigan. I think this is "Minus One" material, myself.
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