I was just reading the Rush post on AR 15 to my bf and we got to talking about politics and religion.. I had an idea to ponder towards everyone out there at AR15...

Has religion hurt the Republican party and gun rights in general or not??

My father always said he didn't like to be associated with republicans where he was from cuz it meant he was a religious guy, which he strongly is not.. He also staunchly hated democrats as well..  He believes religion and politics should never mix as do I.. My bf and I also believe that being conservatives and all, the religous people have hurt the gun laws and republicanism in general for us.. Does anyone agree??

Well, I'm hoping the poll will inspire some..
-Andrea

I'm inspired!

Nope, the religious right, that was awakened by Ronald Reagan's run for the Presidency in 1980, has consistently propelled the GOP to the White House!

The problem for George W. Bush in 2000 was not that he almost lost the election due to women and minorities, but that he failed to get anywhere near the 59% of white male vote that his father had gotten back in 1992 against Clinton.

George W. only received 55.7% of the white male vote in 2000. Had he received the 59% that his father received in 1992, he would have won handily with 330 electoral votes.

The Religious Right still are the folks that the GOP and, by extension, gun owners, have to court in order to get elected.

Disappoint them and it's AlGore in 2004!

Eric The(TellingItLikeItIs!)Hun[>]:)]

The religious right are one of the reasons I will never register as a Republican, despite my agreement with many conservative issues.

I would be very very surprised if the Democrats fielded Gore in 2004. They were extremely unhappy (and rightly so), because he took a sure thing from Clinton and blew it.

No, you'll see someone else, not Gore.

-legrue

Lack of moral values is what put this country in the place it is today.  Religion teaches moral values.  Keep on dividing yourselves people....just remember that you will pay for your (in)actions.

Sgtar15

Believe it or not, some of us don't require a "club" to teach us morals.

Some of us are quite capable of establishing high standards for our morals without some antenna to "god" feeding them to us.

Have faith in yourself.

Well, I'll quote something I read today by Charles Colson - that way none of you will have to be offended by any Bible verses.

He mentioned this in relation to the Enron debacle and applies also to the Worldcom escapade now running. He quotes someone who says that western liberal democracy is like a 3-legged stool. The legs are political freedom, economic freedom, and moral responsibility.

Now my comments: It's obvious now that the leg called moral responsibility is rotten, and the others have a lot of dry rot and termites in them. If moral responsibility comes from faith in yourself, then many people need to start being much more faithful - but somehow I don't think that will quite do it.

NMSight

I believe in God but I find it harder and harder to believe in an organized religion. The state of the modern church is IMHO a joke. I will stick with keeping my religion to myself where I think it belongs.

John

I have alot of faith in myself.  I am just appalled at how many people preach moral values but condem organizations that teach them!  What is wrong with any organization teaching moral values?

Oh wait...you don't believe it so it must be wrong!!  Is that it??

Sgtar15

Did I say it must be wrong? Did I say it was bad for [i]you[/i] ? No I didn't. I just doesn't even come close to being a good idea for [i]me[/i].

I have no problem with organizations teaching moral values to people who need/require that. I also chose not to sign up for any political party that links ityself with those groups, because at that point, I am endorsing it to some degree, and I definately wouldn't do that. Why would I if it's something I don't believe in? Do you allign yourself with groups that don't represent [i]your[/i]  beliefs? Didn't think so.

I also don't preach moral values to others, and the church doesn't need any help in condemning itself from me, it's done just fine on it's own.

I'm sorry you feel this way, but alot of people have been discouraged from organized religion because of the extremism of it.. 14 years of Catholic school ruined my belief in organized religion. The corruptidness of it was truly disgusting and had no moral backing whatsoever. I refuse to believe in a church where priests molest, are gay, yet preach against it, and teach radical moral beliefs that cannot be attained in today's modern society. One religion teacher told us that guys could masturbate, but not women. Her theory was that this would keep them from having sex.. LOL! I also knew staunch Catolics who said to their children in front of me, "I know you are going to have sex, but please don't use any birth control!" I have my own moral beliefs that I sometimes find are  higher than some supposedly organized religon's beliefs.. I have seen time and time again more hypocrites who claim they have high morals, but then go sleeping around with every Jim at the local bar.. I'm sorry but the hypocrites of this world has ruined organized religion for the rest of us in my opinion..
-Andrea

ditto

because we all know that organized religion has to mean the catholic church [rolleyes]
umm there are other christians other than catholics, 'ya know!

Sorry, [b]Blonde_Bombshell[/b], that your experiences in your church left you so out of touch with the Lord.

Those folks you mentioned have a 'form of godliness' about them, but they have [b]no[/b] concept of what true religion might be!

Read of Jesus, and learn the answers to all of the problems besetting our lives. From His lips and no other's.

Find yourself a church that preaches nothing but Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, and I think you will find true and undefiled religion, the way that He meant it to be!

That others have, in His name, sought to destroy and undermine whatever was good in His original message was not His fault, but theirs!

It will be all the worse for those wolves who have come among His sheep to divide them, to abuse them, and to turn them away from the simple Gospel Message that God is Love, that He loves you always, that He wants for you to be with Him forever!

All the rest is window dressing, just look to Jesus as the Author of your salvation, and listen only to His voice.

[b]It's not difficult.[/b] The Bible has been translated into every tongue under Heaven, so there is no excuse.  It is on tape for all to hear, so there is no excuse.

Whatever you have been taught by men, up to this point, forget, and, I repeat, listen to Him and to Him [u]only[/u].

Eric The(Sincere)Hun[>]:)]

as a christian, i vote and choose what i believe based on the scripture and guidance from the holy spirit...
so far, i would say that it has clearly HELPED both gun laws and the republicans...

Yeah but sometimes I find that some christans are even worse, even cult-like with their brainwashing of people..

Post from Blonde_Bombshell -

[b]So?[/b] Keep shopping around and you will find one that does not have the 'extremism' in it that you do not like.

As for myself, I revel in extremism, both in matters of faith, and when it comes to the RKBA!

Hell, this country was [u]founded[/u] by religious nuts with guns!

[b]I [u]am[/u] a religious nut with guns![:D][/b]

Lots of guns![:D]

You wouldn't believe how many guns....

Eric The(MyWifeDoesn'tKnowHowManyGuns!)Hun[>]:)]

M4 has already stated my position.

Umm as stated this country was founded by religous nuts with firearms. No religion does not hurt Republicans. As for hurting gun rights, the Bible says it's sin-not the guns- that causes our problems. The liberals want to go around and blame the guns. CRC

i do not belong to one of said organizations.
i have never brainwashed or been brainwashed.  if my church said something i dont agree with, id move on down the line.  coversely, my church answers to no one other than the body of the church. ther is no central organization that leads us, apart from the holy spirit and the divine teachings of the scriptures.
i have neve once felt uncomforable about anything that has happened at church, and i was not raised in a christian household.

Too bad many DemocRats don't take lessons from [b]M4[/b] and [b]s0ulzer0[/b]!

If the blacks had been so outraged over Clinton's caving in on Welfare Reform, which they perceived as just as big a slap in their face, as gunowners thought the AWB was, they should have done what you guys do!

Or by Clinton's refusal to press forward on the Lani Guenier nomination, or in having Jocelyn Elders escorted from her office, or in the many, many other things that Clinton did against the blacks best interests!

And maybe, just maybe, Bob Dole would have been elected President in 1996!

If you can't have perfection in your party or in your candidate, SCREW THEM!

Tell me, fellows, how many members do you have in the [b]M4 Party[/b] and the [b]s0ulzer0 Pary[/b], respectively?

Are y'all on the ballots in many states? [:D]

Politics is the art of compromise and some of you folks are in Kindergarten still, for just that reason.

You don't know how to get along with folks who don't think, point by point, the same way you do!

The rest of us have moved on and matured sufficiently to know that we don't always get our way.

[b]The American Revolution would never have gotten off the ground with you boyz in charge![/b]

You'd still be arguing over the shape of the hats! Or the color of the uniforms! [:D]

Thank God there's only a few members in either of your parties!

Hopefully not enough to fill up a phone booth.

Eric The(MaybeJustOneMember,Eh?)Hun[>]:)]

I think we're confusing several different issues.

[b]Faith[/b] - Loyalty; Belief without physical proof (rarely a bad thing)

[b]Religion[/b] - A system of beliefs (subjective, could be good or bad)

[b]Church[/b] - A building for public worship (never a bad thing)

[red][b]Church[/b][/red] - As an institution like any other big business
is only as good as the people involved.

[red][b]Politics[/b][/red] - As an institution like any other big business
is only as good as the people involved.
(sound familiar?)

You rarely here anything good about a "church"
or someone associated with church, a politician or someone associated with particular political party. The truth would show that most of all of these are good and decent.

Trash sells and he sheeple love scandal.
However, an admitted atheist would never get elected as president, nor would a Baptist preacher.

A God fearing man who is not afraid of sharing his beliefs, but at the same time would never
cram his brand of religion in your face is always welcome in my trench.

I respect rights of those who are none believers as well. Unfortunately, many former
believers are now nonbelievers or they're riding the fence
because they were burned by some jerk off (no pun intended) in "the church". Sad!

Just my .02 worth.

errr... its obvious that they would just refuse to wear [b]ANY[/b] hats!

Colin the (throwthebabyoutwiththebathwater) Jay

agreed, but remember like you said in your post about focusing on the scandal... there are also a lot of non-believers who see the glory of god in their friends, neigbors, co-workers, and come to know Christ not because of proselytization, but because of who they are as people.

The Lord never asked His disciples to remain celebate! He only said that if you choose to do it, for the Kingdom's sake, that is fine.

But you must choose it yourself, not have it foisted upon you!

The closer we get to the church that He set up on this earth, the better off we will be!

Both in this world and in the world to come!

Eric The(Believing)Hun[>]:)]

Well said and I couldn't agree more. This is how I became a believer.

Actually Eric (The Overly Opinionated Ass) Hun,
I don't have a party. I vote LIBERTARIAN.
Other than the religious issue, the Repubs act more like Dems used to. The Dems act more and more socialist.
I vote for neither of them.
So F-Y-V-M!
[:D]

Blaming religion is no different than blaming guns for crimes.  I think many of you are too busy looking at a person who screwed up or perverted religion.  If you look to a person, you will always be disappointed.            

nuff said

well, i don't like mean people either, but im sure there are mean republicans out there.  not wanting to align yourself with a party because of the ideas that they support is understandable.  doing it because it means standing sholder to sholder with someone you "may not" agree with is simply cutting off your nose to spite you face.

Yeah, I know, but one day enough of us will stop pandering to the 2 major & useless parties....
[:D]

Me, an overly opinionated ass? Heh-heh-heh!

Ahh, [b]s0ulzer0[/b], I see that the private moral code that you have chosen to wear is a very loosely fitting garment, indeed, [u]if[/u] you wear it at all!

You are correct in stating that:

'Cause the Libertarian Party ain't much of a party at all.

The most votes they've ever received in a national election was in 1988.

It's been all downhill ever since then!

The one national candidate that they could conceivably claim, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), left the Libertarian Party just so he could finally get elected - as a Republican!

But he was one of the smart ones, the rest of you constitute the grumpiest debating society in the history of old codgers!

It is a distinction you should wear with pride!

Again, I am quite impressed at where your personal code of morality has taken you!

We should all be so sinless and without fault![:D]

Eric The(GladToBeAPainInYo'Ass!)Hun[>]:)]

Post from s0ulzer0 -

The Whig Party will rise up and win elections before you losers do![:D]

Or, more accurately, the 'Know-Nothing' Party will be around long after the Libertarian Party is a footnote in US History books.

Eric The(Historical)Hun[>]:)]

How about the self-rightious ass's party? They have at least one member Hun.

Our political system is designed so people can allign with whatever party they want, for whatever reason. You do as you wish, and I will do as I wish. It's called "FREEDOM" despite your assertion that it's immaturity.

And what exactly do you know about the various reasons I am not a registered republican? You know nothing. You make assuptions, without ever asking a single question, and in your typically limited self rightious manner assume it MUST be immaturity since the fraction of information you do have doesn't agree with how you approach politics.

Because I am not a registered republican doesn't mean I haven't voted republican, but you wouldn't know that because you never have bothered to ask, or even know me....content making assumptions to bolster your position. And you call me immature.

Frankly the fanaticism you repeatedly showcase on this site has long ago demonstrated a bias that has no apparent boundaries. You leaping to conclusions once again is anything but a surprise, but no less pathetic than the last time you inserted your head in to your own ass for a "fresh perspective".

Ahh Eric - you wound me so...and I usually agree with you, but for one or two topics
and both are rooted in religion. [:D]
I know the Libertarian's take a lot of hits, the old "don't waste your vote, just vote republican" but I can't do that anymore.

Sorry, [b]s0ulzer0[/b], that I've become such a pain in the arse on religion, but to me the two subjects of religion and politics are hopelessly intertwined.

I am a Fundamentalist Christian to the same degree that I am a Fundamental Constitutionalist!

But the Constitutional Party will never, ever, win an election, and to take charge of this country's slide into the abyss, you must be able to produce election results!

I have always used this analogy in dealing with the eternal struggle between doing what is perfect versus doing what is possible!

Let us say, f'rinstance, that you are driving in your car down the street one day and you see a house that is on fire!

Through either Divine knowledge (me), or the Great Cosmic Muffin (National Lampoon), you know that:

1. There are [b]ten[/b] small children in the blazing house.

2. If you stop and run in the house, you will be able to save [b]five[/b] of them because of your heroic efforts.

3. Sadly, the remaining [b]five[/b] children will die.

[b]What will you do?[/b] Run into the blazing inferno to rescue the [b]five[/b] children, or drive merrily by the house, thinking to yourself, 'Well, If I can't save all [b]ten[/b] children, why save just the [b]five[/b]!

We both know what your choice would be!

Simply because we can't have the very best in government possible, doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to obtain the very best possible!

And right now, the GOP is all that we've got!

Eric The(UnlessYouCanThinkOfSomethingBetter)Hun[>]:)]

You're not a pain Eric, it's refreshing to my confrontive personality. [:D]

Actually, In that fire you spoke of, I would be dead.
I would have saved 6 children and died in the blaze trying to get more, that's just me.
I am not religious, but I do have strong values,
one of which is a child's life being of more value than my own.

Would have faith that the home you're about to purchase is sound from top to bottom?  Or would you have it inspected first?

Just asking...

-kill-9

Post from s0ulzer0 -

Well said, [b]s0ulzer0[/b]!

But you obviously get the drift of my point!

Sure, my own personal candidate for President was [b]Alan Keyes[/b], he is head and shoulders above the rest, including George W.!

He is as righteous as they come on the RKBA.

But he is [u]unelectable[/u] at present!

I could refuse to vote until this country comes to its collective senses and sees things the very same way I do, but that is a pipe dream.  This country is getting further and further away from the way I think and believe and will continue to do so, unless something miraculous intervenes!

So I hold my nose and vote a straight party ticket, because I want those [b]five children saved[/b], no matter what!

Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)]

My favorite part is when it degenerates into name calling.  [}:D]

Had my house built by a friend in the business.
Still did research, still checked the numbers.
I was on site almost every day[:D]

Human beings have proven to me time and time again that they are unreliable things.  They lie, they cheat, they steal, and eventually they die.  God hasn't done any of those things to me yet.  

And yes, let's do without all of religion's outdated moral codes and such.  Lord knows the Ten Commandments are out of date with modern society.  We should be able to murder, steal, fornicate, lie, and do whatever else we want because it makes us feel good.

Then again, it's not religion most people are pissed off at.  It's the [b]people[/b] in religion.  Most "Christians" forget the basic doctrines of Christianity.  We are not perfect, as we are sinners who are saved by the grace of God.  It's not some exclusive club that is only for us to look down upon others, but an club open to everyone who wants to be.

I'm religious, and I'm on the right, but I'm certainly not a member of that hypocritical group that most call the Religious Right.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

I would have saved 6 children and died in the blaze trying to get more, that's just me.
LMAO

Does not the Bible teach that Preachers should not get involved in a political life?

The Government cannot adopt Jesus, Jesus, Jesus in any political doctrine. Endorsing Morals and Virtues (not Christian exclusives), yes!!, but not Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. A moral society will start from Govt, but from the heart. A lack of Morals as absent from our leaders is not the cause, it is a reflection of us. If the American people do not wish to cry Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. Then you will NEVER see it an any public elected official.


Lib

Define "Extremism" Eric. I thought an Extremist was one who beleives the end justifies the means. ya'know....like terrorists.




Lib-who is picking on Eric today for no real reason [;)]

....also just becasue someone is a Christian. Does not mean that they are "conservative" or pro-gun. I've met plenty of Democrat voting church goers. And plenty of anti-gunners who profess Christ as their Saviour. Some from here at Liberty University (jerry falwell-the money hungry), One of which told me the Communism is compatible with a Christian lifestyle......

Some Christians also have warped views on how a govt should be. A lady here working in IT told me that there should be a Christian Monarchy here in the states. Its good of course because its Christian, and anything or anyone who is Christian is "good" and "just". For how long i asked, because who will his heir be or be like? warped views, warped logic.

If and When the Anti-christ comes, he will probably be hailed by non-discerning Christians; blinded by their faith.



lib-who has no place getting himself involved in a religious debate.

This is mainly for EricTheHUN's comments:

I mainly can't find a christian religion currently because ever since I have moved down to North Carolina these past 3 years I have seen two views on protestantism...

1.) My religious friends that are in a campus(university) religious organization who only date christians and therefore have only had a handful of dates and their 21..(I think its mainly the case because they tell everyone they are virgins which usually scares the hot, slutty girls away LOL and the ugly girls say they are too close to jesus now to date which is probably a line to my poor guy friends but who knows??)

2.) Then there is the Jerry falwell types who are into money, morality, and condemn people like me for sleeping with my boyfriend and living with him, when they themselves are sleeping around and end up with kids etc, but they say to me using BC is wrong. My own personal morals should not be for others to judge and ridicule especially when their own morals seem much more poorer in my view. PLUS, the one's who do remain chaste I feel are sinful in accusing others of failure when it is of noone's business to judge but God himself..

This is why I can't join an organized religion currently. I feel noone should judge me besides God our lord and savior and I would love a close intimate relationship with God, but the PEOPLE in these organizations have lead me to believe that this is what god is like all evil and authoritative when I know he is not but loving and forgiving but these people have clouded my judgement and made me very bitter and angruy with religion.. All religions are losing tremendous amounts of young people for my bf and I and numerous friends are strong examples of this. Things must change somehow to coincide with modern day thinking and morals or organized religion is going to suffer greatly in my opinion.. Sorry that I lost my cool in this post, but so many religious people have made me so ANGRY and BITTER over the years and it never seems to change from religion to religion...
-Andrea

This could be a whole seperate topic but I'm asking this question anyway:

It's just my opinion but, I believe that the younger generations are losing much more favor with the churches and organized religion each generation after the other.. Does anyone else agree???

Quoted:
[b]I mainly can't find a christian religion[/b]
Probably because you are not a Christian.

[b]1.) My religious friends that are in a campus(university) religious organization who only date christians and therefore have only had a handful of dates and their 21..(I think its mainly the case because they tell everyone they are virgins which usually scares the hot, slutty girls away[/b]
Yes, well, Christ never said virtue would be a walk in the park.

[b]Then there is the Jerry falwell types who are into money, morality, and condemn people like me for sleeping with my boyfriend and living with him,[/b]
Well, first off, Jerry Falwell could not "condemn" a garden salad, only God can do that. And according to the Hebrew prophets, the 12 Apostles, and the Son of God, no one is ever condemned for "sleeping" with someone. Fornicating has however been cause for eternal damnation, Biblically speaking.

[b]when they themselves are sleeping around and end up with kids etc, but they say to me using BC is wrong.[/b]
Yes, well, if a pyromaniac said "your house is on fire" would you say "I'm not going to believe you because you are a pyromaniac so I'm going back to bed"?

[b]My own personal morals[/b]
Unless I am mistaken, did you not already state that you are engaged in serial fornication? A clear Christian no-no. But perhaps one has to believe that the carpenter from Nazareth was the prophetic fulfillment of the history of the redemption of man to believe this.

[b]should not be for others to judge and ridicule especially when their own morals seem much more poorer in my view.[/b]
LOL! Sorry, not going to swing at the easy stuff.

[b]PLUS, the one's who do remain chaste I feel are sinful in accusing others of failure when it is of noone's business to judge but God himself..[/b]
Yes, well, not to bring Christianity into it again but the Bible is rather emphatic that there is a special place in Hell for those who witness others doing what is sinful and remain silent. So, let me get this straight, 1. You want to fornicate with reckless abandon and 2. You want those who choose to have somewhat a firmer grip on their modesty, chastity and virtue to spend an eternity in Hell by disobeying God by remaining silent in the face of an avalanche of moral corruption. Gee, I can't imagine why you cannot find a "christian religion" to suit you.

Quoted:
[b]This is why I can't join an organized religion currently. I feel noone should judge me besides God our lord and savior[/b]
Oh BS darlin. Total crapola. Ka-Ka, if you will You "can't join organized religion currently" becaue you don't want to stop having sex whenever you damn well please.

[b]and I would love a close intimate relationship with God,[/b]
Even if it meant a little virtue and chastity?

[b]but the PEOPLE in these organizations have lead me to believe that this is what god is like all evil and authoritative when I know he is not but loving and forgiving[/b]
God only forgives those who ask for forgivness. And no one asks for forgivness for something unless they know it is wrong. And if someone is really sorry for doing something they know is wrong, well they don't do it anymore, or at least make a valient effort to try.

[b]but these people have clouded my judgement and made me very bitter and angruy with religion..[/b]
Well we can't have you all "angruy with religion". Goodness.

[b]All religions are losing tremendous amounts of young people for my bf and I and numerous friends are strong examples of this. Things must change somehow to coincide with modern day thinking and morals or organized religion is going to suffer greatly in my opinion..[/b]
Actually, according to God, it is those who do not change to "coincide" with His moral teachings that are "going to suffer greatly". At least according to Him.

[b]Sorry that I lost my cool in this post, but so many religious people have made me so ANGRY and BITTER over the years and it never seems to change from religion to religion.[/b]
Yes, well, it IS the nature of "truth" that it cannot ever change, for if it did change than it would not have ever been true. If 1+1=2 on Monday in 3000BC it will equal 2 on Friday in 1587 and again on Thursday in 2002.