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Posted: 8/13/2007 11:34:54 PM EDT
I just wanted to report something so utterly inane and ridiculous that it boggles my mind. Ok, the setup. My dad originally set up my xbox live account, back when i was playing Halo 2 on the original Xbox. He set up a password for it at that time. Ok, i buy a 360 the DAY it comes out, i waited up all night to purchase it. On that day i migrate my xbox live account. There was some sort of issue or another, and so the folks at Xbox live set up a nice internet domain for us to use. same password and everything. So i recently bought a 360 Elite. I attempt to migrate my Xbox live account, should be simple, right? I call my dad to get the password...he forgot it. Ok, no problem, i say to myself. I call Xbox customer support. They cant give me the password, and refer me to windows live customer support. Fine. I email them and make them aware of the issue. They say an email has been sent. To the email domain that Microsoft set up. That doesnt exist anymore. I ask that they forward it to my email address. They wont, for security purposes. Fine. I will get my dad to verify who we are. He calls them. Gives them credit card info, our address, our phone number, the answer to the secret question, our full names, any and all info they might need. They refuse to give us the password. Try Windows live customer support. Now we are starting to get pissed off. We contact windows live again. They refuse to send the password to my email, despite the fact they have verified in every concievable way who I am. We call Xbox live again. They have us write windows live again, detailing the situation. We do. We dont recieve a reply for 8 hours. We call Xbox live again, They refuse to help until we either recieve a reply from windows live or 24 hours has passed. Next day, we recieve an email that says the exact same thing as the previous email. We contact xbox live. for "security reasons" they wont send the password to my email, despite the fact that it is the backup email for the account, as all the billing is taken care of through that email address. These security reasons seem to ignore the fact that we have access to credit card info and ANY pertinent info they may need. They suggest we create a new account. Fine. How do i get all the premium content (about $75 worth) to the new account. They inform us that it cant be done. I have no idea what else to do. I inform them of their stupidity and hang up. I now am up shit creek without a paddle. To summarize, Xbox Live refused to: Tell me the password, Send the password to the alternate email on the account, or transfer my premium content. This seriously hurts me as a consumer, particularly seeing the mass quantites of money and time i have devoted to the Xbox. I have no idea what to do, i suppose I will make a new account and re-buy all the content. I feel seriously stuck. I just wanted to make everyone aware that Microsoft has no problem screwing their customers over to the Nth degree. I wish that the PS3 had the games the xbox does, I would kiss microsoft goodbye and head on over to sony. But as it is I am utterly and completely stuck.
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 11:36:04 PM EDT
Paragraphs.
use 'em.
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 11:36:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 11:37:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2007 11:48:38 PM EDT by twonami]
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 11:40:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:
Paragraphs.
use 'em.


what he said
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 11:44:26 PM EDT
The horror...
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 11:45:39 PM EDT
Dude, no offense, but you lost everyone here with your "my dad bought" statements. Then moan about xbox live being a pain in the ass.

That said, what is your opinion of the elite? I have been considering upgrading but wasn't sure if the hdmi was worth it or not. I was told that I could wait for the new Pro model that comes out w/ hdmi connection.

Link Posted: 8/13/2007 11:55:33 PM EDT
I can't think of a bigger waste of time. No offense intended, but after reading your foot stomping rant, you need to see if your dad will buy you a life.

It'll be OK soon, I hear that school is cranking back up in a few weeks or so.
Link Posted: 8/13/2007 11:57:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 69firebirdconv:
Dude, no offense, but you lost everyone here with your "my dad bought" statements. Then moan about xbox live being a pain in the ass.

That said, what is your opinion of the elite? I have been considering upgrading but wasn't sure if the hdmi was worth it or not. I was told that I could wait for the new Pro model that comes out w/ hdmi connection.



I was 17 when the account was created. I had no access to credit cards or anything at the time. My dad was kind enough to let me use his credit card. I now use the subscription cards, but the info is the same from the initial setup by my father. I suppose that no one else on this site has ever been helped out by their parents. Get real. I was relaying a story that has caused a major hassle for me. I am sorry that it is an offense to everyone on the boards.

Oh, I think the elite is a nice upgrade due to the expanded hard drive. If you have the cash then go for that model.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:00:13 AM EDT
Hell I'm just pissed i'm on my 3rd unit and this one is starting to lock up every 5min - 2 hrs playing Rainbow Six Las Vegas Online.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:12:07 AM EDT
It's ok, school starts in a week.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:20:26 AM EDT
Not sure I understand your point

You are pissed that a company will not give a password out to an unverifiable source?

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:46:46 AM EDT
So what's the difference between the regular 360 and the Elite?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:49:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
It's ok, school starts in a week.


Sheesh! Not a minute too soon. I can't wait.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:11:17 AM EDT
But I bet in the future that all passwords for anything that requires them will be written down and stored in a safe place. Call it a $75 learning lesson of the value of writting things down.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:45:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:48:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:25:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 4:27:58 AM EDT by Maxwell71]
Wow,
Your dad seems to have his hands full with buying everything and taking care of a password.
I am surprised he has time to go to work and bust his ass to support you.

Get a paper route kid. Read a book, a book a mutha .....
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:58:02 AM EDT
X-Box LIVE fucked me out of a year's worth of payments.

I cancelled with them, but they told me "Our computers are down" and they couldn't give me the confirmation number.

A year later, they send me a renewal notice.
So, I call them up and find out they never cancelled my account.
They ask for my confirmation number, and I remind them that they never gave me one.

Bunch of fucking retards.
I asked them to check my account activity to prove that I hadn't logged in during that year and they said there was no way to check.

If I'd done something they didn't like, you can bet they'd be able to get that info.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:00:59 AM EDT
All this over a stupid game console.

WTF is this world coming to.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:06:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CWS1911:
All this over a stupid game console.

WTF is this world coming to.



Oh yeah, because your hobbies and pursuits are sooooo much cooler and/or more important.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:07:27 AM EDT
There comes a time in a man's life, when he needs to get a life.

Seems like it's your time.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:10:26 AM EDT
reminds me of the video of the german kid freaking out over some PC game

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTwgNhX4BSo
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:12:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lucidvizion:

Originally Posted By CWS1911:
All this over a stupid game console.

WTF is this world coming to.



Oh yeah, because your hobbies and pursuits are sooooo much cooler and/or more important.


I would not actually call that a hobby or pursuit.

I call that leading a very sedentary lifestyle.

And people wonder why this country has a weight problem.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:16:09 AM EDT
at the end of the day, it is still just a box to play games on


lawd, the horror is more than I can bear


just have daddy cough up some more money
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:18:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jmzd4:
reminds me of the video of the german kid freaking out over some PC game

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTwgNhX4BSo

umm, he's off his meds
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:20:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 5:22:16 AM EDT by Lucidvizion]

Originally Posted By CWS1911:

Originally Posted By Lucidvizion:

Originally Posted By CWS1911:
All this over a stupid game console.

WTF is this world coming to.



Oh yeah, because your hobbies and pursuits are sooooo much cooler and/or more important.


I would not actually call that a hobby or pursuit.

I call that leading a very sedentary lifestyle.

And people wonder why this country has a weight problem.


Right. And every AR15 owner is a member of radical anarchist militia.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:21:02 AM EDT
Passwords - yes they are that important.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:23:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 5:25:20 AM EDT by gordon_freeman]

Originally Posted By CWS1911:

Originally Posted By Lucidvizion:

Originally Posted By CWS1911:
All this over a stupid game console.

WTF is this world coming to.



Oh yeah, because your hobbies and pursuits are sooooo much cooler and/or more important.


I would not actually call that a hobby or pursuit.

I call that leading a very sedentary lifestyle.

And people wonder why this country has a weight problem.


I'm a video game nerd, but I also work out every day.

If I didn't play video games and work out EVERY day I'd probably be too compelled to blow my brains out in front of my work computer... but of course, since this is arfcom and the land of "do as I say, not as I do" what is your workout routine?

EDIT: Just get a new live account sucka. don't be a 'tard and forget your passwords!!!

With Bioshock, Mass Effect, Halo 3 coming out soon...

Madden 08 (vastly superior on the 360), Forza Motorsports (Grand Tourismo 5 aint coming out till 2009, announced yesterday), Dead Rising and Gears of War out right now...

PS3 simply doesn't have games to compete
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:23:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 5:24:32 AM EDT by Tomislav]

Originally Posted By Lucidvizion:
Right. And every AR15 owner belongs to a radical anarchist militia.





Those would AK owners. AR owners have loftier goals.



Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:26:50 AM EDT
Microsoft is one of the reason I did not go with an XBox 360 for me and the kids.

1. Their business model of getting it out and then fixing known bugs is bullshit.
2. Their business model of screwing the customer over is bullshit.
3. Their business model of patently KNOWING their systems are flawed but releasing them anyway is bullshit.

My buddy, Joe, has had nothing but problems from his 360. That's why I went with the PS3, plus I get 1080p from the start, HDMI, a larger hard drive (than the original 360) and a Blu-Ray player as well.

I have an account set up for Live game play for the kids, after their homework is done, their chores are done and they have washed up for the night. They will not get an account until their 18th birthday.

I write down the password and keep it stored and also keep a log (sent to me by Sony) of any activity on the account. I busted my oldest for playing when he was grounded (date, time logged in, as well as time spent).

Microsoft sucks. Sorry, but you had better create a new account or just walk away.

And try to use paragraphs, hmmmm? Complete sentences and proper syntax and grammar would also do alot to further your post.

Just a suggestion.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:32:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:33:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CWS1911:

Originally Posted By Lucidvizion:

Originally Posted By CWS1911:
All this over a stupid game console.

WTF is this world coming to.



Oh yeah, because your hobbies and pursuits are sooooo much cooler and/or more important.


I would not actually call that a hobby or pursuit.

I call that leading a very sedentary lifestyle.

And people wonder why this country has a weight problem.


I'm somewhat amazed by how judgemental some gunowners can be. It's pretty sad really... Just because this guy has a video game console does not make his complaint any less valid, or mean he has no life... In fact, I would say those who feel the need to attack others over trivial things are really the ones who need to get a life.

Gunowners especially should understand how unfairly judgemental others can be about our particular hobby/sport/enthusiasm and should not act the same way towards others.

BTW, just for the record, I'm in my late 30's, married, both wife & I have good careers and most definitely 'have a life'. I also just finished building a new PC just for gaming, and we just bought an Xbox 360 (at the wife's request) and a 42" LCD TV to go with it.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:36:03 AM EDT
I say take the gaming consoles outside and line them up in front of a good back stop, break out the AR's, and have at it! Can't think of a more satisfying way to expend ammo while doing the world some good

I am a former XBox owner (the original version) and as soon as I realized how anti-social it was making me, it got vaporized. Now I have guns and ammo and no longer feel anti-social any more
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:48:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By themadlbb:
I just wanted to report something so utterly inane and ridiculous that it boggles my mind. Ok, the setup. My dad originally set up my xbox live account, back when i was playing


That's about where I stopped reading.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 5:54:43 AM EDT
OP,

goto LIVE

enter the email address you used for your Live account and click "FORGOT PASSWORD"

it will start the password reset utility, then you should be good to go.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:10:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KBoltz:
Microsoft is one of the reason I did not go with an XBox 360 for me and the kids.

1. Their business model of getting it out and then fixing known bugs is bullshit.
2. Their business model of screwing the customer over is bullshit.
3. Their business model of patently KNOWING their systems are flawed but releasing them anyway is bullshit.

My buddy, Joe, has had nothing but problems from his 360. That's why I went with the PS3, plus I get 1080p from the start, HDMI, a larger hard drive (than the original 360) and a Blu-Ray player as well.


I'm pretty sure, if I remember correctly, my buddy went through two (2) PS3's before finally selling the final replacement console Sony sent him on eBay and buying a 360 premium instead. Each PS3 locked up repeatedly and simply wouldn't work.

So I guess 'Microsoft' and 'putting products out before they're ready' are not mutually exclusive after all?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:22:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thirsty:

Originally Posted By KBoltz:
Microsoft is one of the reason I did not go with an XBox 360 for me and the kids.

1. Their business model of getting it out and then fixing known bugs is bullshit.
2. Their business model of screwing the customer over is bullshit.
3. Their business model of patently KNOWING their systems are flawed but releasing them anyway is bullshit.

My buddy, Joe, has had nothing but problems from his 360. That's why I went with the PS3, plus I get 1080p from the start, HDMI, a larger hard drive (than the original 360) and a Blu-Ray player as well.


I'm pretty sure, if I remember correctly, my buddy went through two (2) PS3's before finally selling the final replacement console Sony sent him on eBay and buying a 360 premium instead. Each PS3 locked up repeatedly and simply wouldn't work.

So I guess 'Microsoft' and 'putting products out before they're ready' are not mutually exclusive after all?


disclaimer: i love sony, i hate microsoft.

however...

the xbox 360 live system pisses on Sony's online setup.
Sony had over a year to take cues from the xbox and get their software on par with live and they didn't.

Blueray is a fad. It will fizzle out like betamax did in the 80s.
HD-DVD will win out b/c people are more likely to equate HD DVD to HD TV than Blueray to HD TV... as stupid as it sounds... go to best buy on a saturday afternoon and watch the people try to understand HDTV, LCD v PLASMA, etc. Blueray is alien technology to them.

the 360 premium comes with 1080p HD (via component). the elite (still cheaper than PS3) has HDMI output.

PS3 has about zero good games for it. Resistance fall of man is the only notable title in their catalog.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:25:50 AM EDT
In Before The Huge Manatee Pic
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:35:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By themadlbb:

Originally Posted By 69firebirdconv:
Dude, no offense, but you lost everyone here with your "my dad bought" statements. Then moan about xbox live being a pain in the ass.

That said, what is your opinion of the elite? I have been considering upgrading but wasn't sure if the hdmi was worth it or not. I was told that I could wait for the new Pro model that comes out w/ hdmi connection.



I was 17 when the account was created. I had no access to credit cards or anything at the time. My dad was kind enough to let me use his credit card. I now use the subscription cards, but the info is the same from the initial setup by my father. I suppose that no one else on this site has ever been helped out by their parents. Get real. I was relaying a story that has caused a major hassle for me. I am sorry that it is an offense to everyone on the boards.

Oh, I think the elite is a nice upgrade due to the expanded hard drive. If you have the cash then go for that model.


Just to clarify, I don't have a problem w/ your post, just pointing out what others were going to zero in on. As for the Elite, is it just the hard drive that makes it better? My reason for considering it was for the HDMI connection. I have a 1080P LCD and was wondering if it would improve the resolution.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 6:48:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hellbound:

Originally Posted By thirsty:

Originally Posted By KBoltz:
Microsoft is one of the reason I did not go with an XBox 360 for me and the kids.

1. Their business model of getting it out and then fixing known bugs is bullshit.
2. Their business model of screwing the customer over is bullshit.
3. Their business model of patently KNOWING their systems are flawed but releasing them anyway is bullshit.

My buddy, Joe, has had nothing but problems from his 360. That's why I went with the PS3, plus I get 1080p from the start, HDMI, a larger hard drive (than the original 360) and a Blu-Ray player as well.


I'm pretty sure, if I remember correctly, my buddy went through two (2) PS3's before finally selling the final replacement console Sony sent him on eBay and buying a 360 premium instead. Each PS3 locked up repeatedly and simply wouldn't work.

So I guess 'Microsoft' and 'putting products out before they're ready' are not mutually exclusive after all?


disclaimer: i love sony, i hate microsoft.

however...

the xbox 360 live system pisses on Sony's online setup.
Sony had over a year to take cues from the xbox and get their software on par with live and they didn't.

Blueray is a fad. It will fizzle out like betamax did in the 80s.
HD-DVD will win out b/c people are more likely to equate HD DVD to HD TV than Blueray to HD TV... as stupid as it sounds... go to best buy on a saturday afternoon and watch the people try to understand HDTV, LCD v PLASMA, etc. Blueray is alien technology to them.

the 360 premium comes with 1080p HD (via component). the elite (still cheaper than PS3) has HDMI output.

PS3 has about zero good games for it. Resistance fall of man is the only notable title in their catalog.


Blu-Ray has been outselling HD-DVD two to one at my local Best Buy. I believe Wrner Brothers has devised a setup where they can encode BOTH on the same disc (opposite sides I believe, but check). I am able to get Blu-Ray from NetFlix and from my local Blockbuster, which will not be carrying HD-DVD anymore.

As far as having problems, I was reticent about buying the PS3, but after owning an original PS2 that lasted for like 8 years, I was willing to give it a try. I also bought the aftermarket intercooler system to try and make sure it lasts. I bought mine right after last Christmas (like the 27th of December) and my kids have played the hell out of it. We have like 60 PS2 games and four PS3 games (Elder Scrolls IV:Oblivion, Blazing Angels, Splinter Cell and Rainbow Six:Vegas - I promised the oldest that I would buy the next Call of Duty and Ghost Recon:Advanced Warfighter 2). The backwards compatibility was one of the PRIMARY considerations for my purchase. That, and the fact that I spent about 300 bucks on games for the kids at Christmas.

It is not just the XBox 360, it is anything to do with Microsoft. Hell, look at every Windows upgrade, from Windows 95 through Vista, Internut Exploder, Media Player. It all has been released with major design and security flaws. I switched to Mozilla Firefox to surf the Web, it is safer, faster and configurable to my likes.

I agree with the online setup. Microsoft blew Sony away.

Reminds me of when Nintendo was the Dominant system in consoles. Sega was a close second, then the debacle with the Saturn. Playstation came out with more and better games and Sony won the market share. XBox helped to kill the Nintendo (Wii is really a toy, not a serious console). Sony had better pull their heads out of their asses and get up to speed quick.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:10:58 AM EDT
OP's post broken up into paragraphs: height=8
Originally Posted By themadlbb:
I just wanted to report something so utterly inane and ridiculous that it boggles my mind.

Ok, the setup. My dad originally set up my xbox live account, back when i was playing Halo 2 on the original Xbox. He set up a password for it at that time.

Ok, i buy a 360 the DAY it comes out, i waited up all night to purchase it. On that day i migrate my xbox live account. There was some sort of issue or another, and so the folks at Xbox live set up a nice internet domain for us to use. same password and everything.

So i recently bought a 360 Elite. I attempt to migrate my Xbox live account, should be simple, right? I call my dad to get the password...he forgot it. Ok, no problem, i say to myself. I call Xbox customer support. They cant give me the password, and refer me to windows live customer support. Fine. I email them and make them aware of the issue. They say an email has been sent. To the email domain that Microsoft set up. That doesnt exist anymore. I ask that they forward it to my email address. They wont, for security purposes. Fine. I will get my dad to verify who we are.

He calls them. Gives them credit card info, our address, our phone number, the answer to the secret question, our full names, any and all info they might need. They refuse to give us the password. Try Windows live customer support. Now we are starting to get pissed off. We contact windows live again. They refuse to send the password to my email, despite the fact they have verified in every concievable way who I am. We call Xbox live again. They have us write windows live again, detailing the situation. We do. We dont recieve a reply for 8 hours. We call Xbox live again, They refuse to help until we either recieve a reply from windows live or 24 hours has passed.

Next day, we recieve an email that says the exact same thing as the previous email. We contact xbox live. for "security reasons" they wont send the password to my email, despite the fact that it is the backup email for the account, as all the billing is taken care of through that email address. These security reasons seem to ignore the fact that we have access to credit card info and ANY pertinent info they may need. They suggest we create a new account. Fine. How do i get all the premium content (about $75 worth) to the new account. They inform us that it cant be done.

I have no idea what else to do. I inform them of their stupidity and hang up. I now am up shit creek without a paddle.

To summarize, Xbox Live refused to: Tell me the password, Send the password to the alternate email on the account, or transfer my premium content. This seriously hurts me as a consumer, particularly seeing the mass quantites of money and time i have devoted to the Xbox. I have no idea what to do, i suppose I will make a new account and re-buy all the content. I feel seriously stuck. I just wanted to make everyone aware that Microsoft has no problem screwing their customers over to the Nth degree. I wish that the PS3 had the games the xbox does, I would kiss microsoft goodbye and head on over to sony. But as it is I am utterly and completely stuck.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:09:27 AM EDT
Wow, videogamer drama.
I have a PS2 that my wife bought for me, used, back in 2002.
I haven't used it in years, and then only to play some fighter plane games.

Gamer folks:
How much do you think I could get for selling it with about 5 or some older games???
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:17:43 AM EDT
I'm interested in reading your story, but will not do so cause it looks to annoying to read.

Paragraphs please.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:20:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I'm interested in reading your story, but will not do so cause it looks to annoying to read.

Paragraphs please.
see XterraJohn's post above.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:22:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By themadlbb:
I inform them of their stupidity and hang up.


Oh to be a sophomore again.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:35:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sparsky:
Hell I'm just pissed i'm on my 3rd unit and this one is starting to lock up every 5min - 2 hrs playing Rainbow Six Las Vegas Online.


lol...same happened here. Sent it back, 2 weeks later back in business.

RS-6 Vegas is the best online game EVER!!!
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:35:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:
Wow, videogamer drama.
I have a PS2 that my wife bought for me, used, back in 2002.
I haven't used it in years, and then only to play some fighter plane games.

Gamer folks:
How much do you think I could get for selling it with about 5 or some older games???


Maybe $100, tops.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:36:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:47:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CWS1911:

Originally Posted By Lucidvizion:

Originally Posted By CWS1911:
All this over a stupid game console.

WTF is this world coming to.



Oh yeah, because your hobbies and pursuits are sooooo much cooler and/or more important.


I would not actually call that a hobby or pursuit.

I call that leading a very sedentary lifestyle.

And people wonder why this country has a weight problem.


I agree, playing video games and having anything to do with your parents means you're a lazy, unemployed slob living on your parents' dollar.

Excuse me, I need to go tell the kids on the playground to get a job, those useless pukes.

By the way, guns have no legitimate use either.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:50:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Maverick91:

Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:
Wow, videogamer drama.
I have a PS2 that my wife bought for me, used, back in 2002.
I haven't used it in years, and then only to play some fighter plane games.

Gamer folks:
How much do you think I could get for selling it with about 5 or some older games???


Maybe $100, tops.


Cool, thats about what I thought, thanks.
(just trying to get more $$$ together for my UZI project).
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