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Posted: 10/18/2009 5:58:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2009 8:38:58 AM EST by M60forever]
I want to get a discussion started. I have somewhat of an opinion on the subject but I want to hear everyone else's. What is your OP on Freemasonry? How many of you are Christian Freemasons? Do you think there is a problem with someone becoming a Freemason who is a Christian and accepts Jesus Christ as his savior. I have viewed numerous articles, you tube videos etc discussing Freemasonry. Whats says you religious section? What says you ARFCOM?


And on a side note. Is it true that Billy Graham is a Freemason?


Link Posted: 10/18/2009 6:03:01 AM EST
tag
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 6:10:10 AM EST
There is no problem with anyone who believes in being a Freemason. You can be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, if you are an atheist you would not be accepted. There are various religions that have issues with Us, they consider us a cult and we are not.
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 6:12:29 AM EST
I have a friend who is a freemason, and did a little reading on freemasonry.

From what I gather they are a religious based organization. They want people who believe in a higher power.

My buddy said, that if you read the bible, you already know alot about the basis of freemasonry.
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 7:42:20 AM EST
What if you believe in GOD but don’t believe in any one religion?
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 7:55:58 AM EST
That would be fine also, no meed for organized religion to join
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 8:06:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By M60forever:
I want to get a discussion started. I have some what of an opinion on the subject but I want to hear everyone else's. What is your OP on Freemasonry? How many of you are Christian Freemasons? Do you think there is a problem with someone becoming a Freemason who is a Christian and excepts accepts Jesus Christ as his savior. I have viewed numerous articles, you tube videos etc discussing Freemasonry. What say you religious section? What says you ARFCOM?


And on a side note. Is it true that Billy Graham is a Freemason?




There is no incongruity between Freemasonry and Christianity.

Link Posted: 10/18/2009 8:18:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 8:34:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2009 8:56:33 AM EST by M60forever]
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
freemasonry is not religion. Masonry encourages you to read the holy doctrine of YOUR faith and follow it.

what mast people take issue with is the fact that you can be a Freemason and not believe in a "Christian" god. That is entirely true. we simply require a belief in deity to join. Your faith, your religion is up to YOU. Religious doctrine is NOT taught in fact discussion of it is outright discouraged in a lodge.

Masons do not preach religion although many Masonic lessons come from faith based scriptures. when these lessons were devolved biblical education was all the formal education most received. it was one thing most people could universally relate to.

Freemasons are Jew,Muslims,Buddhists,Christians, and many other faiths. We promote harmony and brotherly love in this life. NOT religious conversion or salvation.

having watched most of the conspiracy stuff in print and online, having joined a blue lodge and recently gone through the Scottish rite as a 32nd degree, I will first hand tell you it is all crap made to promote an outside agenda. They take just enough truth of the organization to make things looks suspect and let their imaginations run wild. Mason's in general are charged with not responding to the garbage so the rumor and conspiracy crap continues to foster.


there is NO conflict with Christianity and freemasonry. If you are weak enough in your faith that something such as this makes you uncomfortable you have bigger issues than the masons.



I agree.
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 8:59:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 9:02:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2009 9:04:12 AM EST by M60forever]
Originally Posted By medicmandan:
TBS said it very well.

Having been a Freemason for close to five years I have never found anything that conflicts with my faith in God or my religion. I do consider myself to be a Christian. Freemasonry encourages me to attend and be active in my religion. It in no way should be considered a religion. It does not provide a path to salvation. It does require that we have a belief in a divine creator but does not dictate who/what that is or how we should worship that entity.

In my area since the majority of our membership is Christian we use the Holy Bible as our guide and do refer to that entity as "God". There are other Lodges I have visited that have members of other faiths. They use whatever holy book pertains to their membership, sometimes this means several books are open at any one time. They may also refer to "God" in the more generic term of "Grand Architect of the Universe".


I hope I am accepted into Freemasonry. I have filled out a petition to join and eager to get started.
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 12:14:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2009 12:28:45 PM EST by PreachermanMATT]
I wouldn't be a FM, there is a huge thread in the archives shortly after my join date which i explain why, TBS was active in that one....I'll try to get you a link later...

eta: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=716166&page=1
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 1:00:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2009 1:01:11 PM EST by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 2:20:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2009 2:33:40 PM EST by KingRat]
Originally Posted By PreachermanMATT:
I wouldn't be a FM, there is a huge thread in the archives shortly after my join date which i explain why, TBS was active in that one....I'll try to get you a link later...

eta: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=716166&page=1


Me either, and not due to a weakness of faith.

I have family and friends in the Masons, and wanted to join. After much research, I realized that as a Christian, I could not do so in good conscience.

The basic teaching of the lodge is that there is only one true religion, Freemasonry, and one true god, whom they call GAOTU ( Grand Architect of the Universe ).

They teach that all other religions are merely reflections of the one true religion, Freemasonry. This is why new applicants to the lodge must profess belief in A god. ( any one will do ).

This is because they teach that Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Krishna, etc are just prophets/great men who represented the one true god, GAOTU.

Any man who worships Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Krishna, etc is really worshiping GAOTU without realizing it.

This is why the lodge teaches that all men, including Christians, are in spiritual darkness until they join the masons.

The candidate for the Entered Apprentice degree is told that he will brought out of darkness ( ignorance ) and into the light.

After masonic instruction, the mason will now realize that his religion was false, and that he was really worshiping GAOTU all along.

Freemasonry also teaches the concept of the universal fatherhood of God, and brotherhood of man, making all men right with God whether they believe in Jesus Christ or not.

This is one of the reasons you won't find many masons who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.

None of this is biblical in any way. There is also a whole works oriented system, i.e. earning your way to the masonic heaven by following rituals/observances etc.

You will commonly hear masons state the Freemasonry in not a religion, and that religion isn't even allowed to be discussed in the lodge.

What they mean is that OTHER religions are not to be discussed. ( Christianity, Islam etc ) This is hardly surprising.

What religion wants people discussing/worshiping another religion in their own temple/church?

There are many Christians who are in the lodge. You have to wonder if they paid any attention to the teaching, oaths, and rituals they went through to join.

Most did not, and think of the lodge as just a social club; a place to make business contacts and hang out.

Here's a test. Ask a mason if he would rather quit the lodge, or his church. The answer will be telling.

ETA - When first researching Freemasonry, I only consulted masonic resources. I read masonic literature/teachings, and brought up any questions I had directly to men who are not only active masons, but officers of the lodge.
I only add this to show that I based my decision on actual masonic teachings, and not on conspiracy theories found on the net.

Link Posted: 10/18/2009 2:37:56 PM EST
My father was a Mason. I've met a lot of nice Masons. I was in DeMolay, Ritual, etc.
Ever been in a Lodge?
One look around will tell you whether a Christian should be a part of that.
You want to Fellowship, Network, help the Community, or whatever they say Masons are good for?
Do it at your Church.
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 4:08:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 4:32:32 PM EST
TBS is absolutley right! The craft does not endorse any one religion. I am a 32nd Mason, my father was a Mason, My Grandfather was made in Scotland and his Father was an operative Mason. I am in line for the Knights Templar, my Clan was the one that provided Sir William Wallace with a company of Heavy Calvary at Stirling Bridge.
There is nothing about one being superior to another, only a belief in the Almighty. I had a good friend who was Born again, he said Masons were evil, HIs father straightened him out, he could walk only through the unselfish intervention of Masons, they helped and left unannounced.
Israel exists today because Scottish MAsons who Smuggled in Shimon Peres' cousin a Marine Colonel, who heped train the future IDF and lead the commando raid that kept the Western wall safe, Their price...make sure Israel is free and do not let anyone desecrate the Western Wall
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 5:05:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/18/2009 6:52:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By KingRat:
Originally Posted By PreachermanMATT:
I wouldn't be a FM, there is a huge thread in the archives shortly after my join date which i explain why, TBS was active in that one....I'll try to get you a link later...

eta: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=716166&page=1


Me either, and not due to a weakness of faith.

I have family and friends in the Masons, and wanted to join. After much research, I realized that as a Christian, I could not do so in good conscience.

The basic teaching of the lodge is that there is only one true religion, Freemasonry, and one true god, whom they call GAOTU ( Grand Architect of the Universe ).
completely incorrect

They teach that all other religions are merely reflections of the one true religion, Freemasonry. This is why new applicants to the lodge must profess belief in A god. ( any one will do ). completely incorrect. yes belief in YOUR god is required for admission

This is because they teach that Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Krishna, etc are just prophets/great men who represented the one true god, GAOTU.
GAOTU is simply a generic reference to deity. Not all masons are christian.

Any man who worships Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Krishna, etc is really worshiping GAOTU without realizing it. see above. the ignorance here is astouding.

This is why the lodge teaches that all men, including Christians, are in spiritual darkness until they join the masons.
not entirely correct. we teach men to open their minds and hearts and learn. Spiratual growth AND scientific growth being essential to a mans education

The candidate for the Entered Apprentice degree is told that he will brought out of darkness ( ignorance ) and into the light.
yep.... un-edutacted to educated. It is every man's duty to pass knowledge to others... mason or not.

After masonic instruction, the mason will now realize that his religion was false, and that he was really worshiping GAOTU all along.
completely wrong. Your religion is yours.

Freemasonry also teaches the concept of the universal fatherhood of God, and brotherhood of man, making all men right with God whether they believe in Jesus Christ or not. patially true. We teach that you should be right with YOUR religion and adhere to it's tenents. Mandating a jew worship as a christian would be ofensive. just as a muslim lodge forcing a crhistian to worship as a muslim. It's about respect. Something many christians have a hard time understanding these days.

This is one of the reasons you won't find many masons who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.
i know more christians that think that than masons.

None of this is biblical in any way. There is also a whole works oriented system, i.e. earning your way to the masonic heaven by following rituals/observances etc.
lunacy, there is no masonic heaven. Salvation can only be granted through following YOUR religion.... not masonry

You will commonly hear masons state the Freemasonry in not a religion, and that religion isn't even allowed to be discussed in the lodge.
correct

What they mean is that OTHER religions are not to be discussed. ( Christianity, Islam etc ) This is hardly surprising.
already explained above

What religion wants people discussing/worshiping another religion in their own temple/church?
certainly not the christians! The southern baptists here were protesting in a LDS temple on an open house here

There are many Christians who are in the lodge. You have to wonder if they paid any attention to the teaching, oaths, and rituals they went through to join.
if they didn't they aren't masons. Our Chaplin is a baptist minister

Most did not, and think of the lodge as just a social club; a place to make business contacts and hang out.
you really have no clue here. if that were they case they were not admitted to the lodge

Here's a test. Ask a mason if he would rather quit the lodge, or his church. The answer will be telling.
i have left 1 lodge, i have left many churches. How many churches have you left?

ETA - When first researching Freemasonry, I only consulted masonic resources. I read masonic literature/teachings, and brought up any questions I had directly to men who are not only active masons, but officers of the lodge.
BS.... this list is almost verbaitem off the ephesians website. the same crap that is posted over and over agian and FULL of mistakes.

I only add this to show that I based my decision on actual masonic teachings, and not on conspiracy theories found on the net.
i want documents or texts you have researched. Alex jones book and youtube isn't a source.





By quit the lodge, I meant to come out from under Freemasonry. I'm assuming you meant that you changed lodges, not renounced Freemasonry. As far as your changing churches frequently, I hope you will find one that is doctrinally sound, with regular expository preaching, and good Christian fellowship.

Yes, there is a works based salvation system. You have never read or been instructed that by studying the craft, and doing good works, that you can gain entry to the "Grand Lodge on high" or the "Celestial Lodge Above" where GAOTU resides? ( This flies in the face of the biblical doctrine of election. No matter how 'good' we are in life, none of us are remotely worthy of God's good grace. )

Yes, many people do join thinking they can make business/social contacts, or think it is no different than the Moose or Elk club. Obviously you have never been in a lodge that held one day membership drives. You show up a non-mason in the morning, leave that evening a third degree mason. Lunch included. Ask around if you don't believe me.

While I understand your disagreeing with me, I don't appreciate you implying that I am lying about my sources. I'm not familiar with the ephesians website you referenced, so I don't know what is posted there. As I stated before, I have family and friends in the masons, and access to their books. Mackey, Wilmshurst, Pike, Ward, Evans, Newton, among others.

I don't expect to change your mind. We'll just have to agree to disagree.





Link Posted: 10/18/2009 8:08:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2009 8:10:59 PM EST by sharps54]
I have friends that are Freemasons and good Christians. I cannot be a Freemason as it is forbidden by my church (or any Orthodox Catholic Christian Church) but that doesn't mean Freemasons are bad people or satanists.

Heck at least one of my relatives was a Freemason and a Methodist-Episcopal minister; of course he was also a Confederate chaplain for John T Morgan's Cavalry. As long as your church doesn't have a problem with it (and my understanding is you should be active in your church when you apply) there shouldn't be any heartache on your part in joining.
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 3:26:39 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 3:48:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2009 3:52:49 AM EST by Dino]

Originally Posted By KingRat:

Me either, and not due to a weakness of faith.

I have family and friends in the Masons, and wanted to join. After much research, I realized that as a Christian, I could not do so in good conscience.

<snipped the rest of the post>
lies lies lies and a few half truths

Its interesting to me that religious people would be so hostile to one another that they couldn't respect each others right to believe as they wish. That is all Freemasonry is doing.

Imo, Freemasons are some of the best people you could ever know and all of them are fine examples of what their individual religions teach.


Link Posted: 10/19/2009 4:01:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2009 4:10:18 AM EST by HiramRanger]
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 4:36:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2009 4:46:19 AM EST by M60forever]
Originally Posted By PreachermanMATT:
I wouldn't be a FM, there is a huge thread in the archives shortly after my join date which i explain why, TBS was active in that one....I'll try to get you a link later...

eta: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=716166&page=1


I couldn't get that link to work.

Nevermind I got it. Here it is hot.
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=716166&page=1
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 4:48:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2009 4:57:01 AM EST by T1NMAN]
Several of my friends are Masons including a few that attend my church. For the most part I believe that the larger portion of Masonic membership simply partake as a social function and have very little use/understanding for the spiritual aspects.
That being said, I have some serious qualms with the spiritual understanding of salvation that are made quite clear in the teachings of Masonry.

Bottom line for me is this: If you are a follower of Jesus Christ and you believe His claim to be God in the Flesh sent to redeem fallen men…why would you need further enlightenment then Gods word the Bible?
What can the teachings of Masonry accomplish that the Bible cannot?
The Bible is clear that the Church is where Christians should gather to worship and serve God and serve others. Christianity and Secret societies simply don’t add up.

Masonry boils down to a man made method of attaining enlightenment/relationship with God based on our own merits. It welcomes every man-made religion because it says the same thing as every man-made religion…you can save yourself if you just try hard enough.
So yes, you will find plenty of good people there and perhaps even plenty of good people who attend Christian Churches…but you won’t find Jesus Christ there. He just simply wont play well with "other ways to God" when He makes statements like this….”Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

Of course for COC sake I will add that this is my opinion of what the Bible teaches....but would be happy to explain why.
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 5:42:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2009 5:54:56 AM EST by M60forever]
I only know what I know about Freemasonry from what I read online and have heard from a few masons. I am not a Freemason. But I want to be and will join if accepted. If its not what I think and interferes with my faith in Jesus Christ. I will quit. This is all just my OP. Take it how you may. My take on the Freemasons is that they are just a fraternity of guys who hang out, bull crap, help the community, help each other, and teach responsibilities. I think they don't care what religion you are because they want everyone to be good to one another and not restrict which men can join the fraternity. Somewhat like the golden rule. I think people take the society for more than it is because of the ways in which the society teaches key principals. I think they teach the way they do because of tradition. Kind of like re enactments of the earlier Masons. Like any Fraternity. Kind of like boy scouts for adults. I think people read to much into it. If you accept God as your savior and have a good relationship with him you have nothing to worry about. At least that is how I feel. I'm not worried about it. No one could change my faith. If anything like boy scouts it will help me be a better person.
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 5:44:03 AM EST
Sounds like another divide and conquer question. Just like this thread:
Catholics, Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses and LDS, what do you think about each other?

participate with caution

Don

Link Posted: 10/19/2009 6:58:39 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 7:01:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2009 7:07:18 AM EST by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 7:04:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2009 7:05:55 AM EST by The_Beer_Slayer]
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 7:15:40 AM EST
I personally have no problems with FreeMasonry. All that I've read about it suggests that it is a noble fraternal organization which encourages people to better themselves, and I understand the organization engages in charitable contributions/organizations on a pretty large scale. That men such great men as George Washington and Benjamin Franklin were FreeMasons suggest good things to me.

Personally I have not sought out the organization to join because I already have plenty of opportunities for charitable giving and self improvement through the church I belong to. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the good that FreeMasons contribute to society, though.
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 7:23:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2009 7:25:20 AM EST by T1NMAN]
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By T1NMAN:
Several of my friends are Masons including a few that attend my church. For the most part I believe that the larger portion of Masonic membership simply partake as a social function and have very little use/understanding for the spiritual aspects.
That being said, I have some serious qualms with the spiritual understanding of salvation that are made quite clear in the teachings of Masonry.

Bottom line for me is this: If you are a follower of Jesus Christ and you believe His claim to be God in the Flesh sent to redeem fallen men…why would you need further enlightenment then Gods word the Bible?
What can the teachings of Masonry accomplish that the Bible cannot?
The Bible is clear that the Church is where Christians should gather to worship and serve God and serve others. Christianity and Secret societies simply don’t add up.

Masonry boils down to a man made method of attaining enlightenment/relationship with God based on our own merits. It welcomes every man-made religion because it says the same thing as every man-made religion…you can save yourself if you just try hard enough.
this is absolutely un true.

So yes, you will find plenty of good people there and perhaps even plenty of good people who attend Christian Churches…but you won’t find Jesus Christ there. He just simply wont play well with "other ways to God" when He makes statements like this….”Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

Of course for COC sake I will add that this is my opinion of what the Bible teaches....but would be happy to explain why.


this is the classic misunderstanding of what it is.

you MUST remove religion. masonry teaches moral lessons based on symbolism. those lessons are 100% compatible with most religious teachings of similar nature.

There is no masonic heaven,religion or path to salvation. I was outright told the path to salvation is in the holy bible. to study it and learn it. and practice my faith. please explain how this is anti-christian?


I wish I could say that I was misinformed ....but if what you say is true then your Lodge differs from the vast majority and Im not sure they understand the fundamental tenets of Masonic teachings.
Yes, they might go along with the Holy Bible being "your path"...but they will not tell you it is the "only path."
Jesus might be Your way...but not the only way.
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 8:06:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2009 8:06:35 AM EST by HiramRanger]
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 8:14:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:


Yes, many people do join thinking they can make business/social contacts, or think it is no different than the Moose or Elk club. Obviously you have never been in a lodge that held one day membership drives. You show up a non-mason in the morning, leave that evening a third degree mason. Lunch included. Ask around if you don't believe me. i specifically ask that of new candidates. That is a specific reason for not allowing them into the fraternity. No our lodges do NOT allow one day classes ans we require a 30 day investigation committee on all new members.i don't think you will find many masons that agree with the one day class garbage.

While I understand your disagreeing with me, I don't appreciate you implying that I am lying about my sources. I'm not familiar with the ephesians website you referenced, so I don't know what is posted there. As I stated before, I have family and friends in the masons, and access to their books. Mackey, Wilmshurst, Pike, Ward, Evans, Newton, among others. if you have actually read those books then you obviously missed something, i am still of the impression you have not and are simply spouting the normal garbage. I seriously doubt most people would care enough to read them. They are VERY dry reads and unless your interested in joining io doubt you have read them based on your above posts.





I didn't ask whether you approved of the one day class or not. You stated that people don't join haphazardly, and I was merely illustrating that they do. Quite frequently. The one day classes are fairly common as many lodges are running low on members.

As to your second point, you should read posts more carefully before you respond to them. Especially if you are going to call someones integrity into question. I have already stated that the reason I began studying up on Freemasonry was that I wanted to join, as I have family and friends who are masons.

I don't frequent anti-masonic websites, or obsess over this subject as you apparently do. I did my homework, and made a decision not to join. After that I didn't give the masons much thought. However, if someones asks whether or not they should join, I'll give my opinion. I still have family and friends in the masons. We get along fine. I don't badmouth the masons around them, and they don't badmouth Christianity. Live and let live.

Best of luck.





Link Posted: 10/19/2009 8:27:19 AM EST
Good thread, I don't know what to think about the Masonry, From Christians I have heard they are bad. But have never heard exactly why.
I wont ever bash a Mason, My daughter stayed at Scottish Rite hospital when she was young, that was a great place.
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 8:34:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 8:38:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 9:16:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By T1NMAN:
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
Originally Posted By T1NMAN:
Several of my friends are Masons including a few that attend my church. For the most part I believe that the larger portion of Masonic membership simply partake as a social function and have very little use/understanding for the spiritual aspects.
That being said, I have some serious qualms with the spiritual understanding of salvation that are made quite clear in the teachings of Masonry.

Bottom line for me is this: If you are a follower of Jesus Christ and you believe His claim to be God in the Flesh sent to redeem fallen men…why would you need further enlightenment then Gods word the Bible?
What can the teachings of Masonry accomplish that the Bible cannot?
The Bible is clear that the Church is where Christians should gather to worship and serve God and serve others. Christianity and Secret societies simply don’t add up.

Masonry boils down to a man made method of attaining enlightenment/relationship with God based on our own merits. It welcomes every man-made religion because it says the same thing as every man-made religion…you can save yourself if you just try hard enough.
this is absolutely un true.

So yes, you will find plenty of good people there and perhaps even plenty of good people who attend Christian Churches…but you won’t find Jesus Christ there. He just simply wont play well with "other ways to God" when He makes statements like this….”Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

Of course for COC sake I will add that this is my opinion of what the Bible teaches....but would be happy to explain why.


this is the classic misunderstanding of what it is.

you MUST remove religion. masonry teaches moral lessons based on symbolism. those lessons are 100% compatible with most religious teachings of similar nature.

There is no masonic heaven,religion or path to salvation. I was outright told the path to salvation is in the holy bible. to study it and learn it. and practice my faith. please explain how this is anti-christian?


I wish I could say that I was misinformed ....but if what you say is true then your Lodge differs from the vast majority and Im not sure they understand the fundamental tenets of Masonic teachings.
Yes, they might go along with the Holy Bible being "your path"...but they will not tell you it is the "only path."
Jesus might be Your way...but not the only way.


So let me get this straight... a non-Mason is telling a Mason that the Mason's lodge is an outlier and the majority of lodges differ... so how exactly would you know that? We are pretty good at keeping the cowans and eves droppers at bey.


You're correct, I’m not a Mason but I do know that the core of Masonry doesn’t accept the claims of Jesus Christ as the only way to God the Father.
My statement wasn’t that I claim to know one lodge from another....but if someone attends a lodge that recognizes Jesus Christ as who he claims to be….well that would be a rare find.

This is my point: for the Christian there is no need for any further spiritual enlightenment then what is found in Gods word....Especially when it conflicts with Gods word.
The Christian who believes that Jesus is The Truth (singular) needs to be cautious when fraternizing with groups who at their core teach that Jesus is a truth (plural) Is it wrong to be friends with them? Of course not! But we shouldn’t lay aside Christ for Companions.
If you’re a Mason and can freely discus your Faith in Christ and his claims at the Lodge that’s one thing…but if you’re asked to set aside your faith in Jesus and His message that’s something else entirely

That is the question to Christians, if you have a relationship with Jesus Christ and believe His word to be true…why is there a need for membership in a group that claims to offer additional enlightenment?
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 10:42:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By walttx:
Good thread, I don't know what to think about the Masonry, From Christians I have heard they are bad. But have never heard exactly why.
I wont ever bash a Mason, My daughter stayed at Scottish Rite hospital when she was young, that was a great place.


I dare say most Masons I've met are Christians


Thats what is kind of confusing, I will go out on a limb and say the Masons I have known would profess to be Christains but are not active in a Church.
I would imagine some Masons are very active in the Church.
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 11:05:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 11:08:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 11:50:56 AM EST
Fair enough...I'm sure you're more then capable of conducting your own further research into the Masons should you be so inclined.
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 11:54:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 12:40:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By T1NMAN:
Fair enough...I'm sure you're more then capable of conducting your own further research into the Masons should you be so inclined.


No... what is this truth I've been forced to accept in conflict with my faith in Christ?
Can you pray in Jesus name?

Is there only one faith one Lord one BAPTISM? or is there another baptism outside of the NT?

Link Posted: 10/19/2009 12:42:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 1:03:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By PreachermanMATT:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By T1NMAN:
Fair enough...I'm sure you're more then capable of conducting your own further research into the Masons should you be so inclined.


No... what is this truth I've been forced to accept in conflict with my faith in Christ?
Can you pray in Jesus name?

Is there only one faith one Lord one BAPTISM? or is there another baptism outside of the NT?



I pray in Jesus's name daily. I have been baptized once inside my church. There are numerous faiths, do you deny Jews and Muslims and Buddhists exist? There is one TRUE faith and that is in Christ. I respect other people's right to worship as they desire. I do not agree with it, I do not accept it for myself, but I respect the fact that God gave them the power to choose even if they don't recognize that gift and even if they choose poorly.

epic sidestep....so let's say 'if' baptisms occured in a lodge, these hypothetical baptisms not only have ABSOLUTELY no religious meaning/symbolism, but also are not in conflict with biblical teachings on one Lord one Faith one Baptism?
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 2:17:08 PM EST
It seems to me the problem is that A Mason will respect and accept another's faith as their own. There are those that think they are the only way....you pray to my Jesus and you go to heven, you don't and you go to hell
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 2:21:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 2:31:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2009 3:31:51 PM EST by T1NMAN]
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By T1NMAN:
Fair enough...I'm sure you're more then capable of conducting your own further research into the Masons should you be so inclined.


No... what is this truth I've been forced to accept in conflict with my faith in Christ?


Brother if you would like a snap shot of where I'm coming from then the following clip might give you a picture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH2WiVyvWoE

There are plenty of questions for Followers of Christ....if you want to invest the time I would be happy to point you to sources or even send you some on my dime.

Don’t misunderstand I’m all about the good things Mason do…. just as I’m all about the good things every other religion does.
But The Truth of Jesus Christ tells us our best efforts cant pay our debt for sin.
To place the Cross in a pile of universal religious symbolism doesn’t add to its value….but diminishes its very purpose.
The Bible tells us that Jesus is the Light of the World…everything else is darkness.
The Bible teaches that aside from Christ there is no spiritual enlightenment.

What did Jesus say about Himself? I'm one of a couple of ways? There's me a a couple of other guys?
Follow any number of paths? Make up a path that sounds good or makes you feel good?
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Act 4:12
You dont need jack to walk in the Light of Christ other then simply following after Him by obeying His word....placing your faith in Him.
The Light that leads men to God is found in one place.....
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.2 Cor 4:6

The peace that Jesus offers isn’t a universal utopian peace that makes everyone feel good about their personal religions…He didn’t come so the world could hold hands and sing while making each other feel good…..Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.Mat 10:34
He came to cut through the darkness of mens hearts with the Light of His Truth…His Word…"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

To have friends who believe in other paths to God, other lights and other ways is fine…..but to sit around fist bumping each other while talking about how all your personal jesus’s are little rays of light that all lead to enlightenment….doesn’t represent the Jesus of The Bible as He makes Himself known through His Word.
If you as a follower of Jesus Christ can stand for the Absolute nature of Jesus Christ and who He claimed to be while in your Masonic Lodge…all the more power to you!
If not…you have a problem.

If you believe in this Jesus when I refer to you as Brother I mean it!
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 2:55:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By PreachermanMATT:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By PreachermanMATT:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By T1NMAN:
Fair enough...I'm sure you're more then capable of conducting your own further research into the Masons should you be so inclined.


No... what is this truth I've been forced to accept in conflict with my faith in Christ?
Can you pray in Jesus name?

Is there only one faith one Lord one BAPTISM? or is there another baptism outside of the NT?



I pray in Jesus's name daily. I have been baptized once inside my church. There are numerous faiths, do you deny Jews and Muslims and Buddhists exist? There is one TRUE faith and that is in Christ. I respect other people's right to worship as they desire. I do not agree with it, I do not accept it for myself, but I respect the fact that God gave them the power to choose even if they don't recognize that gift and even if they choose poorly.

epic sidestep....so let's say 'if' baptisms occured in a lodge, these hypothetical baptisms not only have ABSOLUTELY no religious meaning/symbolism, but also are not in conflict with biblical teachings on one Lord one Faith one Baptism?


I've been through all of Blue Lodge, am a 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason and a Royal Arch in York Rite. What baptism in Lodge are you speaking of because I've sure as hell not experienced it.

let me know your thoughts...

http://emfj.org/dbr.htm


Link Posted: 10/19/2009 3:49:19 PM EST
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