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Posted: 5/20/2005 10:19:54 PM EDT
WTF!?! Why is it that half of all Americans vote against freedom, for oppression, for intrusive gooberment, for oppressive laws, in favor of hyperactive children running their state houses, and openly support illegal immigrants, vicious Muslim terrorist lovers, and anything or anybody who'll tear this country down?

Why can't these people all just move to a few states and start their own damned country - the People's Republik of Kalifonistan und New York or some other such bullshit as this?
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:20:47 PM EDT
cause they are idiots
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:21:30 PM EDT
Uhh democrats seem to attract muslims,atheists,tree huggers,liberals,etc. You get the picture.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:27:12 PM EDT
I still think ARFCOM should start its own country but where..........................
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:27:20 PM EDT
"Why do half of all Americans hate America?"

Education Indoctrination. Our education systems at all levels have been subverted.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:32:23 PM EDT
Why does Milsurp still need an audiance??

Same question be honest!

Bob
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:34:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rayra:
"Why do half of all Americans hate America?"

Education Indoctrination. Our education systems at all levels have been subverted.



Nail driven right through the board.
I'm still recovering from the anti-gun, "Government will take care of you" bullshit I was brainwashed into when I was in school since I was very little. Now I'm figuring out that "educators" are full of shit. I don't dare to know what I would think if I didn't hate school the whole time and looked skeptically at everything they said.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:34:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 10:35:17 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Lots of reasons.

1) Fear. Fear of being responsible for yourself and fear of having to face the consequences of your own actions.

2) Self-loathing jealousy. Knowing that there are people better, smarter, stronger, more righteous than you out there so the easiest way to make yourself look better is to cut them down whether they are the rich, successful or live a cleaner, better life than you.

3) Immature narcissism. Thinking that YOU are so much smarter and morally superior than everyone else to the point of believing you have a RIGHT to control every aspect of their lives from cradle-to-grave.

4) Irrational empathy. Using emotions to make decisions about everyone else around you regardless of the facts of their situation. The poor, the homeless, the unemployed, the common criminal, the foreign terrorist, they ALL are "victims" whose plights need to be understood.

It all comes down to feeeeeeeeeeeelings.

Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:35:41 PM EDT
cause i'd rather have them all move to your state
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:36:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 10:39:33 PM EDT by DLoken]
Why are 90% of Republicans (Including those on this board) fucking morons?

Really I see you people whining about the Democrats wanting to control your lives (Gun ownership), but the Republicans want to do the same thing (Enforcing morals on people, banning drugs, abortion, censoring TV, etc)

Vote Republican: Vote for holding people without trial, vote for the Patriot Act and allowing the Government to have sneak peaks into your private life (And you can't say a thing if you find out), vote for censorship of the media, vote against individual liberties (In regards to drugs, abortion, prostitution, etc). We can still have our guns.

I want to be able to have an MP5 on my couch, while I smoke a joint and fuck a prostitute. I want the poor to be taken care of, I would like to see it made easier for people to obtain a higher education, I believe a woman should be able to get an abortion. I believe the FCC has no business in regulating radio and TV content (See, the market can do this). Their job should be to license stations in regions so they don't interfere with each other. I would like the government to be fiscally responsible in terms of not going into massive debt, if we have to pay a little more taxes (We should pay less than we do now though since if they were responsible we'd get rid of all the pork) so be it. I believe we should have tollerance for people different than us and allow people to immigrate legally to better themselves and our nation. Lastly, I would like the government (Republicans and Democrats) to leave me the fuck alone.

I am a liberal and I own guns. My name is Dave and I approve this message.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:40:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
WTF!?! Why is it that half of all Americans vote against freedom, for oppression, for intrusive gooberment, for oppressive laws, in favor of hyperactive children running their state houses, and openly support illegal immigrants, vicious Muslim terrorist lovers, and anything or anybody who'll tear this country down?

Why can't these people all just move to a few states and start their own damned country - the People's Republik of Kalifonistan und New York or some other such bullshit as this?




Ironically, I know liberals who feel the same way. In large part, it's a matter of perspective. For example (from your list):

... against freedom/for opression/for intrusive government: they believe that governments attempt to legislate morality into the bedroom, and into women's freedom of choice (re: abortion) is opression, and the believe that the "War on Terror" like "the War on Drugs" will undermine civil liberties and destory freedom at home. Some liberals I know cannot IMAGINE anything more intrusive than the government making medical decisions for women based on religious beliefs.

... openly support illegal immigrants: they see Bush doing NOTHING to close the southern border, and kissing Mexico's president's ass, and they think that conservatives are the ones who openly support illegal immigration.

...vicious Muslim terrorist lovers: they see BUSH holding hands with the Saudis, kissing their ass, and helping the Saudis perpetuate their dictatorial police state, even though most of the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, and even though there is still lots of support for extremist Islam within Saudi Arabia (in religious schools/terrorist recruiting and indoctrination). The same can be said for Pakistan - where these fanatical "schools" are thick on the ground


So you see, depending on the perspective, some liberals ask themselves the VERY SAME QUESTION! (Of couse you and I think they are wrong, and you are convinced you are correct - but so are they, and it is important to recognize that, because the more divisve we get at home, the weaker we are).

Some of the liberals I know are VERY patriotic, and HONESTLY believe that the conservative right is destroying everything good in America.



Just an observation - not taking sides or trying to argue anything.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:43:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Why are 90% of Republicans (Including those on this board) fucking morons?

Really I see you people whining about the Democrats wanting to control your lives (Gun ownership), but the Republicans want to do the same thing (Enforcing morals on people, banning drugs, abortion, censoring TV, etc)

Vote Republican: Vote for holding people without trial, vote for the Patriot Act and allowing the Government to have sneak peaks into your private life (And you can't say a thing if you find out), vote for censorship of the media, vote against individual liberties (In regards to drugs, abortion, prostitution, etc). We can still have our guns.

I want to be able to have an MP5 on my couch, while I smoke a joint and fuck a prostitute. I want the poor to be taken care of, I would like to see it made easier for people to obtain a higher education, I believe a woman should be able to get an abortion. I believe the FCC has no business in regulating radio and TV content (See, the market can do this). Their job should be to license stations in regions so they don't interfere with each other. I would like the government to be fiscally responsible in terms of not going into massive debt, if we have to pay a little more taxes (We should pay less than we do now though since if they were responsible we'd get rid of all the pork) so be it. I believe we should have tollerance for people different than us and allow people to immigrate legally to better themselves and our nation. Lastly, I would like the government (Republicans and Democrats) to leave me the fuck alone.

I am a liberal and I own guns. My name is Dave and I approve this message.

another product of public education.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:45:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jmoffatt:

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Why are 90% of Republicans (Including those on this board) fucking morons?

Really I see you people whining about the Democrats wanting to control your lives (Gun ownership), but the Republicans want to do the same thing (Enforcing morals on people, banning drugs, abortion, censoring TV, etc)

Vote Republican: Vote for holding people without trial, vote for the Patriot Act and allowing the Government to have sneak peaks into your private life (And you can't say a thing if you find out), vote for censorship of the media, vote against individual liberties (In regards to drugs, abortion, prostitution, etc). We can still have our guns.

I want to be able to have an MP5 on my couch, while I smoke a joint and fuck a prostitute. I want the poor to be taken care of, I would like to see it made easier for people to obtain a higher education, I believe a woman should be able to get an abortion. I believe the FCC has no business in regulating radio and TV content (See, the market can do this). Their job should be to license stations in regions so they don't interfere with each other. I would like the government to be fiscally responsible in terms of not going into massive debt, if we have to pay a little more taxes (We should pay less than we do now though since if they were responsible we'd get rid of all the pork) so be it. I believe we should have tollerance for people different than us and allow people to immigrate legally to better themselves and our nation. Lastly, I would like the government (Republicans and Democrats) to leave me the fuck alone.

I am a liberal and I own guns. My name is Dave and I approve this message.

another product of public education.



Aye! or lack of.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 10:52:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 10:59:26 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By jmoffatt:

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Why are 90% of Republicans (Including those on this board) fucking morons?

Really I see you people whining about the Democrats wanting to control your lives (Gun ownership), but the Republicans want to do the same thing (Enforcing morals on people, banning drugs, abortion, censoring TV, etc)

Vote Republican: Vote for holding people without trial, vote for the Patriot Act and allowing the Government to have sneak peaks into your private life (And you can't say a thing if you find out), vote for censorship of the media, vote against individual liberties (In regards to drugs, abortion, prostitution, etc). We can still have our guns.

I want to be able to have an MP5 on my couch, while I smoke a joint and fuck a prostitute. I want the poor to be taken care of, I would like to see it made easier for people to obtain a higher education, I believe a woman should be able to get an abortion. I believe the FCC has no business in regulating radio and TV content (See, the market can do this). Their job should be to license stations in regions so they don't interfere with each other. I would like the government to be fiscally responsible in terms of not going into massive debt, if we have to pay a little more taxes (We should pay less than we do now though since if they were responsible we'd get rid of all the pork) so be it. I believe we should have tollerance for people different than us and allow people to immigrate legally to better themselves and our nation. Lastly, I would like the government (Republicans and Democrats) to leave me the fuck alone.

I am a liberal and I own guns. My name is Dave and I approve this message.

another product of public education.



And notice no mention of love of country, no mention that the original premise they hate this country was false.... nothing positive just vitriol

It is not really half…

More like 25-30%... but they are noisy.

And the main reason they hate American is this is they have been taught to, in university and some at home. Hate is generally a learned behavior.

Really has the Democrat Party had one idea in the last 5 years, all they do is spew hate, divisiveness, and meanness… look at the last campaign, look at who is now DNC chairman. All they have is hate, no ideas. Look at the above... just hateful, spiteful, meanness posing as political thought.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 11:04:34 PM EDT
Because they haven't stepped outside of the country and realized how fucking good they really have it.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 11:05:55 PM EDT
None of the people I know hate this country
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 11:18:40 PM EDT
Because it is more convenient feel secure in the comforting arms of government care than free.

It feels better to them when they are assured that they are made safe by passage of some ineffectual law or another rather than face the reality of having to provide for their own personal safety or defense.

On earth a very, very long time ago before religions and governments were formed people decided that they didn't like it when one of their family or friends were murdered so they agreed that murder was a bad thing and all the people that agreed to this were very happy that the agreement had been made and felt very safe and happy about the decsision.

Saddly there were a number of other humans that rather liked murdering people for one reason or another and in spite of all the decisions/proclamations/laws and resources that have been expended to date. The problem remains.

Many attempts have been made to ban the weapons used to commit murder but since we are such a resoursfull specie when in comes to commiting acts of violence against each other all of these attempts have failed misserably. Indeed it has become rather apparent that as more weapons are banned by law the more creative we as a race become.

The problem is there will always be a certain percentage of people who are not happy in their lot in life who think that hurting or murdering other people will make their lot better. Having been a human for a rather long time I have failed to see the logic in this thinking but it still seems to be a somewhat popular theme.

Indeed, it seems as if there are a certain number of individuals who are so pissed off that there is no end to what they are prepared to do to demonstrate how displeased they are up to and including strapping explosives on to their bodies and running into a cafe full of other people to suicidally set themselves off to make statement about just how pissed off they actually are.

Apparently these individuals don't have the slightest idea of what it takes to positively influence people or make new friends.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 11:22:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 11:22:44 PM EDT by Stealth]
DK-Prof:.... Great post.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 11:33:45 PM EDT
You only have 2 choices, you either like America or you hate America.
So 1 out of 2 choices is 50%



So thats why 50% of Americans hate America. The other 50% like America.

Link Posted: 5/20/2005 11:39:29 PM EDT
Really, I don't see how either side "hates" America.

They just have different views how things should be. This is just hateful rhetoric.

If the Democrats really hated America they'd be trying to overthrow our country or be leaving en masse.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 12:26:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Really, I don't see how either side "hates" America.

They just have different views how things should be. This is just hateful rhetoric.

If the Democrats really hated America they'd be trying to overthrow our country or be leaving en masse.


Incorrect. Most Democrats and Liberals hate the idea of a traditional America. The America of freedom loving, honest, hard working, capitalist, enterprising, successful and conservative people. They are trying(and in many way succeeding) to change our country into a place for immoral, unproductive and defenseless sheeple. I'm not saying the Republicans are perfect, but Democrats and Liberals are far worse.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 12:33:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 12:35:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USPC40:

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Really, I don't see how either side "hates" America.

They just have different views how things should be. This is just hateful rhetoric.

If the Democrats really hated America they'd be trying to overthrow our country or be leaving en masse.


Incorrect. Most Democrats and Liberals hate the idea of a traditional America. The America of freedom loving, honest, hard working, capitalist, enterprising, successful and conservative people. They are trying(and in many way succeeding) to change our country into a place for immoral, unproductive and defenseless sheeple. I'm not saying the Republicans are perfect, but Democrats and Liberals are far worse.



So you're saying people who aren't social conservatives (Like the Taliban, rol) are evil?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 12:40:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DLoken:

Originally Posted By USPC40:

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Really, I don't see how either side "hates" America.

They just have different views how things should be. This is just hateful rhetoric.

If the Democrats really hated America they'd be trying to overthrow our country or be leaving en masse.


Incorrect. Most Democrats and Liberals hate the idea of a traditional America. The America of freedom loving, honest, hard working, capitalist, enterprising, successful and conservative people. They are trying(and in many way succeeding) to change our country into a place for immoral, unproductive and defenseless sheeple. I'm not saying the Republicans are perfect, but Democrats and Liberals are far worse.



So you're saying people who aren't social conservatives (Like the Taliban, rol) are evil?


Nope. We're talking about Americans. There's no need to even mention the likes of the Taliban. Try again.

Also, reread what I wrote. I didn't mention good or evil. Instead of twisting the meaning of what I wrote, take it for what it is.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 12:53:44 AM EDT
Let me just chime in and say that here's another liberal who is well armed, supports the 2nd unconditionally, works very hard and though I seriously oppose a lot of what this government does I do
not hate this country.

As a matter of fact I love this country. I don't think too highly of the government and politicians in general and do not for one second think it is unpatriotic to voice concern and opposition to policiy that is wrong. In fact I think that sounds pretty damn American to me.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 12:58:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Barkinhound:
Let me just chime in and say that here's another liberal who is well armed, supports the 2nd unconditionally, works very hard and though I seriously oppose a lot of what this government does I do
not hate this country.

As a matter of fact I love this country. I don't think too highly of the government and politicians in general and do not for one second think it is unpatriotic to voice concern and opposition to policiy that is wrong. In fact I think that sounds pretty damn American to me.


What qualifies you as a liberal? You sound more like a libertarian.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:07:51 AM EDT
The gov should not be starting wars that we were not attacked from. The gov has to much power. Our representives are susposed to be regular joe people who are elected and then they return to there regular REAL jobs. The United States should not be a social state but a federalist free capitalist society where you do not depend on the gov but are self suffecient.

This all ended long ago.

that being said. It's the best place I see for freedom.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:10:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:11:54 AM EDT
Well, I've gotta admit, I do have libertarian leanings. Like the Repubs and the Dems I just have trouble with their platform in its entirety.

Other than the times I have voted independent, and I have voted Libertarian in instances, I have voted Democrat. For the first time in my long history of voting I chose to not vote at all this last Presidential election. I just couldn't see the lesser of two evils (or devils) in the yahoos running.

My Uncle is a big Libertarian in Florida and he has been "witnessing" to me for the last year or so. We have had some pretty good discussions. He turned me on to "Strike the Root" which I read as part of my daily political/news sources.

We'll see.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:19:32 AM EDT

What qualifies you as a liberal? You sound more like a libertarian.


Me personally, i'm basically a libertarian who is an economic moderate and wants some social programs to help people.

I think liberal is misused in American politics. Most libertarians fit the definition of liberal really.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:22:06 AM EDT
Frankly, I'm tornwhen it comes to my feelings about life in these United States. There is a great deal to be said for this Country and its people. OTOH, you'll find me to be a rather vocal skeptic and critic.

For example, when the events of September 11, 2001 took place, I was disgusted with my Country. Those events sparked mindless jingoism and flag waving by every Tom, Dick and Harry. I realize the benefits of such cheerleading for our home team, I viewed them as largely disingenuous. Where are all those flags now? I don't see American flags flying from every car and house the way they did 4 years ago...why not?

I was also repulsed by the vast number of politicians and other pundits claiming that the terrorists would not win and that American people would not be intimidated or hindered by fear. Americans would continue to defiantly live their lives without fear and that our free society would be an example for all in the face of terrorism designed to create fear, mistrust as well as to do damage to our freedom.

I have no political science degree. I was no expert, no politician...just an average joe with a lineral arts degree, at the time. Even in my youth and even with my ignirance and naivete I knew these statments to be patently false. They clearly were. Debate the impact of society's 'post-911' attitudes upon peace loving law abiding Americans all you want but I rejected the assertions when made and I reject them now. The United States is undeniably a much different place than it was immediately prior to the September 11, 2001 attacks.

Dont' misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that the United States should not be a different place. I am not equipped to make such judgments. I am fairly confident, however, that those politicans and speakers were not honest with the American people and probably not honest with themselves. I understand the need of the people to be reassured but those of us with longer memories than the last commercial are alienated by such patently ridiculous assertions.

Since the jingoism has waned, I find myself more sympathetic to government and law enforcement. I guess I would chalk this up, at least in part, the the mindless America hating that has become as popular as the jingoism was just a few years ago. Neither are really rooted in rationality and I suppose my skeptical attitude cause me to always be critical of the prevailing view. This is not simply because I enjoy being contrary (although that may be part of it). I would attribute my attitude to my natural skepticism.

After all, despite my involvement in local government, I rarely can follow the politics as they tend to be just that. Control and compromise prevail over rationality and cooperation and many of the details, which turn out to govern many controversies are left to discretion and are determined in parlor rooms and the backrooms of shops and in secret meetings, not by democratic process.

Given this, I can never hope to understand what goes into even a single top level Federal policy, much less analyze its propriety. I can only question and criticize those flaws evident to me.

I am upset with 'America' because things do not work the way they are supposed to. On the other hand, I have begun to accept the practical reality of being powerless and uninformed. The biggest down side to this is that I have compromised many ideals and principles in order that I may more readily function successfully in society. For most, preserving one's individual ideals at all costs is simply too costly. Where is the rationality in destroying oneself by continuing to operate under principles that could cost one everything? Some are able to do so and change the world. I do not have the confidence that I have the talent, resources or sympathetic majority or even significant minority to be able to hold my principles at all costs.

By the same token, as green as the grass looks elsewhere, things elsewhere aren't likely to be all they are cracked up to be. I'm sure this country isn't the only one where reality and principles run parallel and separate paths.

In conclusion, I play for the home team, the United States because it is my immediate heritage. I do not do so blindly or without reservation, however. Where I can hold my principles without self destructing, I will. Call me a coward, call me weak but if I held fast to the things that I believe without exception, I would be labeled extremist, judgmental, fascist, liberal, prejudiced, weak, cruel, criminal, antisocial and a lot more. Before I learned the art of self-censorship a liberal arts professor teaching a culture class (think extra liberal and touchy feel social science stuff) once announced to the class "Mr. [legalese] I think that you are just anti-establishment, whatever the establishment may be." These United States are rife with legal, political and social injustice and corruption. We can do better. We can always do better and we should always strive to do better.

One additional thought:

Playing for the home team means much more than waving a flag for a year, applying a 'pride' bumper sticker, buying 'american' cars and convincing oneself that the rest of the people or nations in the world are inherently inferior. Working hard with the team, whether I agree with the team plays or player lineup is the important thing for me right now. When I ask myself why I don't play for another team, I have many reasons and excuses. The bottom line, however, is that I play for this team. Nobody but me and my own failings prevent me for playing for another team. Until I play for another team, I will play as best I can for this one.

Wow, that was a ramble... I could go on for pages about my conflicting feelings but at the end of the day, I back my team but reserve my criticism.


Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:30:53 AM EDT
Well, that pretty much describes my sentiments politically also. It is begininng to look like I am a left leaning libertarian. At any rate I am reading much about that particular party these days.

The Democrats have been a source of disappointment and seem to be getting worse. The Republicans I care for even less. It was pretty difficult to eshew voting this time but I figured a vote outside of either party was a vote for one or the other of the two fools running. Hopefully either a third party will become a viable force in American politics or the Dems will alter their platform enough to be palatable.

I am not a one issue voter but the Dems have lost a lot of ground with their foolish insistance on continuing the anti gun rhetoric. On the other hand I do not believe that the Repubs would hesitate to add that to the list of liberties nulled if they thought they could do it politically.

The state of discussion and debate in this country has fallen into the shallow and dimwitted. As much as I have ever seen in my life. The right calls the left commies, the left calls the right fascist and thats about as deep and smart as it gets. It is a shame. Certainly is a different country than the one of my youth.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:36:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 1:41:15 AM EDT by legalese77]

Originally Posted By sherrick13:


Do you really think the democraps don't like the Pat act? They are slobbering all over themselves just waiting until they get back into power so they can use it to go after the "domestic terrorists".

The democraps have no tolerance to anyone that doesn't think like them. If you can't see that you have problems.



You know, I always wondered if the GOP and Dems were in cahoots in that way. Has anyone ever noticed how the GOP tends to consistently call for stiffer penalties for crime and the criminalization of various acts? Ever notice how the democrats often make aggressive use of those laws to curb and control behavior as much as possible.

The Republicans seem to advance law enforcement like crazy, citing good reasons for doing so but then Democrats appear to use those enhanced powers to intervene in people's lives as much as possible. After all, it is hard to deny that Federal government has increasingly seen itself as a babysitter for citizens who are not capable of managing their own lives. So much of law that didn't exist in pre-WWII times or even in the decade or two follwing WWII is now considered necessary. Has the world become that much more dangerous? Have people become that much more incompetent and incapable? Has government become that much more adept?

This has occurred on a State level as well but I find it amazing the sorts of things that the Federal government has been able to regulate that used to be considered within the province of the State. After all, isn't a State better equipped to identify and resolve through legislation its own issues locally rather than have a nationwide resolution on an even further removed Federal level. After all, how many people have meaningful access to State government at the highest levels, much less Federal government?

I know, I know...put on the tinfoil... I just find the tendency to increase law enforcement powers by one party and the aggressive use of such power by the party who originally objected to such power to accomplish its own objectives. Unfortunately, I foresee this as a perpetual problem because of the intoxicating nature of power. Power to accomplish certain things is often more sought after than money. In fact, sometimes the motivation in politics is not so much amassing political power as it is a domeinstration of the ability to prevail or control a given situation.

I find the same true in litigation often. Practical considerations like the children, the financial burden, the time involved, the public airing of petty disputes and the emotional toll are often ignored in a bid to try to dictate terms to the other party or out of stubborness to expose the weakness of the compromising party. In the end, such attempts to control often fail and end up taking a high toll in the meantime.

P.S. In terms of social issues and law enforcement issues, I tend to be very liberal in that I advocate more of a 'hands off' or local regulation approach.

Economically and militarily I tend towards a conservative point of view.

The biggest problem I have with both parties, as of late has been a total lack of attention to National infrastructure. China's highways system will soon surpass our own badly degraded and obsolete National transportation system. Similarly, while communications and other infrastructure is advancing in the most populous cities, most of the rest of the country is so very far behind. I realize that infrastructure would be much easier to advance in a smaller territory but the various infrastructures are absolutely key to economic development and in my opinion, have not been sufficiently devekoped leading, in part, to waning foreign investment and American production. Advanced infrastructure will demand enhanced technology, an industry that is, in the United States, relatively anemic (IMO).
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:54:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
Why does Milsurp still need an audiance??

Same question be honest!

Bob



I agree.


Originally Posted By samsong:
Why do half of all Americans hate America?



I think your statistics are more than a little skewed.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 2:04:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Do you really think the democraps don't like the Pat act? They are slobbering all over themselves just waiting until they get back into power so they can use it to go after the "domestic terrorists".



Keep telling yourself that and you will feel much better when the JBTs come to knock down your door.


Originally Posted By sherrick13:

The democraps have no tolerance to anyone that doesn't think like them. If you can't see that you have problems.



Get a clue as the redumblicans have the White House, the Senate AND the House of Representatives.
You can try this failed ploy of passing it on to the Democrats but it is simple; the Republicans used to be the party of smaller government and less intrusive laws but that day is past. Now they are the party of Gestapo laws, mind control and bankruptcy government.
Hmmm... I guess you can't "see" either.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 2:24:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2005 2:34:17 AM EDT by DoubleFeed]
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 2:35:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 2:46:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By jmoffatt:

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Why are 90% of Republicans (Including those on this board) fucking morons?

Really I see you people whining about the Democrats wanting to control your lives (Gun ownership), but the Republicans want to do the same thing (Enforcing morals on people, banning drugs, abortion, censoring TV, etc)

Vote Republican: Vote for holding people without trial, vote for the Patriot Act and allowing the Government to have sneak peaks into your private life (And you can't say a thing if you find out), vote for censorship of the media, vote against individual liberties (In regards to drugs, abortion, prostitution, etc). We can still have our guns.

I want to be able to have an MP5 on my couch, while I smoke a joint and fuck a prostitute. I want the poor to be taken care of, I would like to see it made easier for people to obtain a higher education, I believe a woman should be able to get an abortion. I believe the FCC has no business in regulating radio and TV content (See, the market can do this). Their job should be to license stations in regions so they don't interfere with each other. I would like the government to be fiscally responsible in terms of not going into massive debt, if we have to pay a little more taxes (We should pay less than we do now though since if they were responsible we'd get rid of all the pork) so be it. I believe we should have tollerance for people different than us and allow people to immigrate legally to better themselves and our nation. Lastly, I would like the government (Republicans and Democrats) to leave me the fuck alone.

I am a liberal and I own guns. My name is Dave and I approve this message.

another product of public education.



And notice no mention of love of country, no mention that the original premise they hate this country was false.... nothing positive just vitriol

It is not really half…

More like 25-30%... but they are noisy.

And the main reason they hate American is this is they have been taught to, in university and some at home. Hate is generally a learned behavior.

Really has the Democrat Party had one idea in the last 5 years, all they do is spew hate, divisiveness, and meanness… look at the last campaign, look at who is now DNC chairman. All they have is hate, no ideas. Look at the above... just hateful, spiteful, meanness posing as political thought.



+1


Originally Posted By DLoken:
Why are 90% of Republicans (Including those on this board) fucking morons?



The liberal "brain trust" speaks again, you are either on drugs or stupid or both
Your post has so many lies and distortions I think it would take an hour to cover it all
(that tolerance you speak of.........YOU don't have any........"fucking morons")
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 2:49:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Do you really think the democraps don't like the Pat act? They are slobbering all over themselves just waiting until they get back into power so they can use it to go after the "domestic terrorists".



Keep telling yourself that and you will feel much better when the JBTs come to knock down your door.


Originally Posted By sherrick13:

The democraps have no tolerance to anyone that doesn't think like them. If you can't see that you have problems.



Get a clue as the redumblicans have the White House, the Senate AND the House of Representatives.
You can try this failed ploy of passing it on to the Democrats but it is simple; the Republicans used to be the party of smaller government and less intrusive laws but that day is past. Now they are the party of Gestapo laws, mind control and bankruptcy government.
Hmmm... I guess you can't "see" either.

You see what your party turned into as well, Bill? Just a question, not a set up for an attack.



There is nobody winning a prize in this contest as the Democrats have failed to oppose most of this nonsense and have offered few alternatives but that wasn't the question. The question concerned the Republicans and what they did. I guess it goes this way; [Republicans] We just pass these horseshit laws so the Democrats can fuck you with them.[/Republicans] Please...
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 2:57:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 3:12:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Now they are the party of Gestapo laws, mind control and bankruptcy government.
Hmmm... I guess you can't "see" either.



Hmmm...Where can I learn more about their "mind control"?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 3:26:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Now they are the party of Gestapo laws, mind control and bankruptcy government.
Hmmm... I guess you can't "see" either.



Hmmm...Where can I learn more about their "mind control"?



It is too late for you as you are already controlled.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 3:41:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 3:49:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Now they are the party of Gestapo laws, mind control and bankruptcy government.
Hmmm... I guess you can't "see" either.



Hmmm...Where can I learn more about their "mind control"?



It is too late for you as you are already controlled.



Would it be possible for me to construct some type of.........
"SIGNAL INHIBITING METALLIC HEADWARE DEVICE"
that might free me from their mind control and allow me to think for myself?
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 3:52:28 AM EDT
they're not Americans
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 4:02:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Now they are the party of Gestapo laws, mind control and bankruptcy government.
Hmmm... I guess you can't "see" either.



Hmmm...Where can I learn more about their "mind control"?



It is too late for you as you are already controlled.



Would it be possible for me to construct some type of.........
"SIGNAL INHIBITING METALLIC HEADWARE DEVICE"
that might free me from their mind control and allow me to think for myself?



I have found that the old standby of tinfoil is quite effective.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 4:07:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 4:17:11 AM EDT
Lots of factors determine your position on the political spectrum. Family, friends,religion and yes sometimes even issues and self-interest.

In our two-party system the actual battle is fought in the middle with each party trying to pilfer some more votes from the center without losing their extreme constituents. With modern communications and polling science both parties have become very good at the game and the result is very close national elections with the attendant rancor. Of course the leaders encourange this rancor in order to hang on to their base voters.

The result is a soccer fan mentality where the losers want to tear down the stadium. The anti-capitalists are using this in attempt to covert more of the losers to a socialist, anti-religous world government.

Noted that somewhere in this thread one of our democratic breathern equated the right to keep and bear arms right up there with sitting on his couch, smoking dope and using a prostitute. Soccer fan.

Regards,
Mild Bill
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 4:27:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Why are 90% of Republicans (Including those on this board) fucking morons?

Really I see you people whining about the Democrats wanting to control your lives (Gun ownership), but the Republicans want to do the same thing (Enforcing morals on people, banning drugs, abortion, censoring TV, etc)

Vote Republican: Vote for holding people without trial, vote for the Patriot Act and allowing the Government to have sneak peaks into your private life (And you can't say a thing if you find out), vote for censorship of the media, vote against individual liberties (In regards to drugs, abortion, prostitution, etc). We can still have our guns.

I want to be able to have an MP5 on my couch, while I smoke a joint and fuck a prostitute. I want the poor to be taken care of, I would like to see it made easier for people to obtain a higher education, I believe a woman should be able to get an abortion. I believe the FCC has no business in regulating radio and TV content (See, the market can do this). Their job should be to license stations in regions so they don't interfere with each other. I would like the government to be fiscally responsible in terms of not going into massive debt, if we have to pay a little more taxes (We should pay less than we do now though since if they were responsible we'd get rid of all the pork) so be it. I believe we should have tollerance for people different than us and allow people to immigrate legally to better themselves and our nation. Lastly, I would like the government (Republicans and Democrats) to leave me the fuck alone.

I am a liberal and I own guns. My name is Dave and I approve this message.



Dave, with 4 years on the board and a very low post count, you must be doing just that everyday
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 4:30:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
WTF!?! Why is it that half of all Americans vote against freedom, for oppression, for intrusive gooberment, for oppressive laws, in favor of hyperactive children running their state houses, and openly support illegal immigrants, vicious Muslim terrorist lovers, and anything or anybody who'll tear this country down?

Why can't these people all just move to a few states and start their own damned country - the People's Republik of Kalifonistan und New York or some other such bullshit as this?



People vote for the laws they feel are needed. They don't vote for "oppression, hyperactive children, etc". They vote for the people and laws they thinik are the best. So they differ from your candidates and ideal laws. Thats why its a free country. You will never find a free country where the people totally agree with each other.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 5:06:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By samsong:
WTF!?! Why is it that half of all Americans vote against freedom, for oppression, for intrusive gooberment, for oppressive laws, in favor of hyperactive children running their state houses, and openly support illegal immigrants, vicious Muslim terrorist lovers, and anything or anybody who'll tear this country down?

Why can't these people all just move to a few states and start their own damned country - the People's Republik of Kalifonistan und New York or some other such bullshit as this?



People vote for the laws they feel are needed. They don't vote for "oppression, hyperactive children, etc". They vote for the people and laws they thinik are the best. So they differ from your candidates and ideal laws. Thats why its a free country. You will never find a free country where the people totally agree with each other.



Yes, indeed and "one-party" states are always oppressive and repressive.
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