Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 7/19/2008 9:14:27 PM EDT
OK, gonna try not to write a book here. I got hired on at a job 1 year and 10 months ago, had to sign a contract saying i would pay them around $2000 for the academy that people get sent to and other training, if i quit within the 1st year and $1000 within the 2nd year. They did not pay for my academy, i paid myself thru but still they made me sign the one for the same amount as the guys they were having to send. Well i didnt make it the full 2 years (missed it by 2 months) I left on good terms, got along with everyone, did a good job, gave a long notice, etc. but i had to do what was best for the family (more money). When a couple of the higher ups found out they seem to take it personal and begin to say negative things behind my back, stuff that was very far fetched and everyone thought they were joking at 1st. They clearly had the attitude "u dont leave us, we leave u". Like they were the best job on earth. Well i go and turn in all my equipment, they are all nice to my face "of course" then today i get the letter i was dreading... a bill for $1000 for leaving 2 months early out of 2 years. So i think/know im probably screwed and gonna have to pay, u would think they would pro-rate it at the least. I know some people will say they are in the business of making money and dont care what people think. But this was a city that i worked for that all they care about is how the general public (taxpayers) see them. I was an LEO for that city and never did anything negative to the department. Any ideas? Go talk to them, man to man? I probably should just chalk it, and wait for a time down the road to return the favor without the vaseline.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:17:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:18:24 PM EDT by JBlitzen]
When someone's trying to screw you, and there's a contract involved, my instinct is to talk to a lawyer in person.

Put another way, don't try to stop them from screwing you. Screw them back.

Of course, for just $1k, it might end up easiest to just pay it. If it means that much to them...
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:23:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sts900:

I was an LEO for that city and never did anything negative to the department. Any ideas?


Exercise some integrity and pay the debt, you clearly owe it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:35:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:35:57 PM EDT by sts900]
I would owe it if they sent me to the academy... and paid me while i was there, like they did the other 2 that signed the same contact, u would also think that a city would show some integrity by doing what is fair and atleast pro-rating it, i mean 2 less than 2 months, thats petty right there. I didnt say i wasnt going to pay, i will pay unless this proves to be an invalid contract for some reason, then i will respectfully tell them what they can do with it. So dont give advice on integrity when it isnt needed.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:42:37 PM EDT
I would think you might only owe them for background checks. I think someone in personnel screwed up making you sign those same contracts. Who are the other two people that had the ride paid? Maybe you can file a lawsuit for discrimination for $1000. They take letter threatening lawsuits a lot more serious.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:48:45 PM EDT
Gonna get a consultation from a lawyer to see if i got a leg to stand on and is it worth my time. I thought it may have been a screw up also until i got the bill in the mail, the day after i give them all their equipment, including some stuff that i did not have too. Now im kicking myself cause i should/could have kept it if they were gonna play like this, which is why they probably waited to get their stuff before sending me the screw in the mail.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:50:51 PM EDT
punt
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 1:19:46 AM EDT
Get a lawyer. Yes you signed a contract but it appears as if you were corerced to some extent and the purpose of the payback is to refund the department for the academy which they didn't pay for. Fight it. Don't take this BS. The worst they can do is sue you for the $1000. Either way lawyers will be involved. Be proactive and get yours first and see what they say.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 3:37:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By urbanredneck:
I would think you might only owe them for background checks. I think someone in personnel screwed up making you sign those same contracts. Who are the other two people that had the ride paid? Maybe you can file a lawsuit for discrimination for $1000. They take letter threatening lawsuits a lot more serious.


They didn't "screw up" making him sign contracts. He did so of his own free will.

He broke the contract voluntarily, to go make more money somewhere else.

Stupid hurts.

Pay the money, you owe it.

This is like a soldier complaining about going to Iraq, THEY SIGNED THE CONTRACT, this guy deserves a break while they don't? Fuck that noise.

It's your shit, eat it, and move on.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 5:14:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 6:30:09 AM EDT by sts900]
nationwide, I think u are missing the point, they are making me pay for something they did not send me too, stop putting words in peoples mouths . I'll put it in terms that u can understand:Say u sign a contract for a cell phone, they make u do it right there on the spot cause if u dont u might not have cell service for the foreseeable future, but they will charge u for a phone that u have already supplied if u cancel the contract within 2 years. Not saying they dont have me by the balls here, but WTF is wrong with trying to get them to lets my balls go if at all possible. U FOLLOW?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 5:34:00 AM EDT
Why did you sign a contract saying you would pay them back for something they never paid for in the first place? I would seek out an attorney immediately.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 6:25:19 AM EDT
It was "the only show in town" so to speak at the time, had to make ends meat.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:05:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sts900:
nationwide, I think u are missing the point, they are making me pay for something they did not send me too, stop putting words in peoples mouths . I'll put it in terms that u can understand:Say u sign a contract for a cell phone, they make u do it right there on the spot cause if u dont u might not have cell service for the foreseeable future, but they will charge u for a phone that u have already supplied if u cancel the contract within 2 years. Not saying they dont have me by the balls here, but WTF is wrong with trying to get them to lets my balls go if at all possible. U FOLLOW?


I follow just fine.

You thought you were going to skate by working there 22 months instead of 24.

Actually, I've been in your situation. I went to work for a trucking company that provided very high quality training (and it was great!). We were obligated to work for them for a year and only them. If we quit, we would owe them thousands of dollars for the training.

I hated the job. I could have made a lot more money somewhere else. I could have been home with my family and friends a lot more. I stayed beyond the one year commitment.

And who exactly quits a Police job? According to ARFCOM protocol, I'm obligated to ask you what you were charged with, since nobody EVER leaves The Brotherhood

And as an aside, I'm not quite sure how young you are, but you may want to learn two things:

1) The word is "you", not "u".

2) The paragraph is your (not "ur") friend. See:

Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:10:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By sts900:
nationwide, I think u are missing the point, they are making me pay for something they did not send me too, stop putting words in peoples mouths . I'll put it in terms that u can understand:Say u sign a contract for a cell phone, they make u do it right there on the spot cause if u dont u might not have cell service for the foreseeable future, but they will charge u for a phone that u have already supplied if u cancel the contract within 2 years. Not saying they dont have me by the balls here, but WTF is wrong with trying to get them to lets my balls go if at all possible. U FOLLOW?


I follow just fine.

You thought you were going to skate by working there 22 months instead of 24.

Actually, I've been in your situation. I went to work for a trucking company that provided very high quality training (and it was great!). We were obligated to work for them for a year and only them. If we quit, we would owe them thousands of dollars for the training.

I hated the job. I could have made a lot more money somewhere else. I could have been home with my family and friends a lot more. I stayed beyond the one year commitment.

And who exactly quits a Police job? According to ARFCOM protocol, I'm obligated to ask you what you were charged with, since nobody EVER leaves The Brotherhood

And as an aside, I'm not quite sure how young you are, but you may want to learn two things:

1) The word is "you", not "u".

2) The paragraph is your (not "ur") friend. See:

pro.corbis.com/images/CB055744.jpg?size=572&uid=%7B7FD21CAC-ECAC-4006-97E7-01F107977720%7D

Reading Comprehension.
The OP paid for the training. The department's red tape required he sign the "I'll pay you back" despite the department *Not Paying For It*.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:38:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 7:45:51 AM EDT by sts900]
Last i checked this was the internet and not "Report writing 101". If u want proper paragraph usage, read a book. I may still be an LEO for all that it matters, which seems to be half your problem since "u" keep bringing it up. Last i checked there are tons of different departments out there (which is not even the issue) . Like "u" said , there was great training given by your employer during that time period therefore "u" would have to pay them back, i did not get the training.

Everyone else seems to get the jist of this, which is i'm trying to find a way not to get screwed over for 2 measley months when i did nothing but good work while there. Just because you suffered the full term of employment and i bailed with a little less than 2 months to go, why hate on it?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:51:23 AM EDT
I am not familiar with TN law, but in states that I am familiar with, an employment contract that has a financial penalty for early breach is only legal to allow the employer to recover costs of training. If the employer was not actually out of pocket for training, the contract would not be legal.

I'd suggest you have an attorney review the situation, and if TN law is similar, write a letter refusing to pay the amount for the reason that the dept is not owed it.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:24:13 AM EDT
I would pay the fine to keep a good reference on my resume.

BUT, I would make an appointment with HR first to see if they KNOW what's up. They get feed crap daily from dept. heads. Make sure everyone is in the loop. Deal with HR, they made the rules, they can break em.

Think it through before you let a lawyer walk off with your money.

If the meet with HR doesn't work, start with the letters. Try to resolve it with documents, no phone calls. When they start getting certified letters, they will look the problem over very carefully. They can ruin your credit and become a bad referral.

I wish you well, but don't burn a bridge, they never get repaired until the bastards die off.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:49:38 AM EDT
If you can show they had no financial loss through your leaving (ie never paid for academy), you might have a case. You'll need a lawyer, who will need to be paid. That might run more than $1,000.

You signed the contract with your eyes open. I'd just pay it and learn a lesson that a contract is a contract. What's your word worth?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:55:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 9:11:15 AM EDT by The_Woodsman]
Competent advice that has been repeated, but apparently not enough until you state that you will take it:

First, talk to the man in charge of sending the bill in person. You probably know who that is. See if they can waive it. This should be your first course of action.

If they can't or won't, take some written statements regarding the slander. You know who might consider giving such statements. "Saying stuff" suggests slanderous/libelous comments which could possibly result in an action against the agency and agency players. Some agencies need "cleaning" anyway and it's best for everyone when the bad apples are weeded out. Professional folks do not behave that way. Consider the political affect and decide if the probable outcome is likely to be in your favor or not. Will future employers talk about it? Will they care?

Ask your friends who have used lawyers before to refer you to someone they liked. Meet that lawyer. Hire someone you are 100% comfortable with (someone you feel has a personality that meshes nicely with your own). Get to know them as even if you don't expect to use their services very often. It's always best if you know each other so when/if you get in a jam they know who you are when they call.

Don't worry about the money. Pay the lawyer's invoice with a "thank you" and carry on.

There is no cost too high to support proper ethics. Just make sure that ethically it is the right thing to do.

Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:12:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 9:17:02 AM EDT by Bigger_Hammer]

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
Get a lawyer. Yes you signed a contract but it appears as if you were corerced to some extent and the purpose of the payback is to refund the department for the academy which they didn't pay for. Fight it. Don't take this BS. The worst they can do is sue you for the $1000. Either way lawyers will be involved. Be proactive and get yours first and see what they say.


+100 on this.

First meet person to person with the city department pushing for the payment to point out that the clause did not apply to you, as the city never paid the expense they expect you to repay.

Document the meeting that you tried to resolve this with calm reason.

If Plan A doesn't work then Plan B is to Fight it as they used a standard contract that did not properly apply to your specific case. IF your employer paid for your academy, then no problem because you owe them reimbursement for the expense if they paid it. An atty should be able to make this case very clear in court, however you have to balance what your costs would be Vs. what you would gain / save.

However, YOU paid that expense, not the employer.

I'd suggest that you remind them that since they declined to pay for the academy, or to reimburse you for your expense to attend the academy, then you don't feel you are obligated to repay to them an expense that they never incurred or paid.

Good Luck and sounds like you made a good move to get away from those folks if that is how they want to treat you!

BIGGER_HAMMER
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 5:14:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
Get a lawyer. Yes you signed a contract but it appears as if you were corerced to some extent and the purpose of the payback is to refund the department for the academy which they didn't pay for. Fight it. Don't take this BS. The worst they can do is sue you for the $1000. Either way lawyers will be involved. Be proactive and get yours first and see what they say.


+100 on this.

First meet person to person with the city department pushing for the payment to point out that the clause did not apply to you, as the city never paid the expense they expect you to repay.

Document the meeting that you tried to resolve this with calm reason.

If Plan A doesn't work then Plan B is to Fight it as they used a standard contract that did not properly apply to your specific case. IF your employer paid for your academy, then no problem because you owe them reimbursement for the expense if they paid it. An atty should be able to make this case very clear in court, however you have to balance what your costs would be Vs. what you would gain / save.

However, YOU paid that expense, not the employer.

I'd suggest that you remind them that since they declined to pay for the academy, or to reimburse you for your expense to attend the academy, then you don't feel you are obligated to repay to them an expense that they never incurred or paid.

Good Luck and sounds like you made a good move to get away from those folks if that is how they want to treat you!

BIGGER_HAMMER


Also think about this aspect of it,,,,,

You could make an arguement that they owe you $1000.00
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:15:30 AM EDT
Its really going to come down to the wording in the contract. But the term unjust enrichment comes to mind. Go see a lawyer and let them review the agreement, but you should not be forced to compensate them for monies they never outlaid. Get you documents together that show that you paid for the training, you will probably need them.


Matt
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 8:40:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rdc0000:
I would pay the fine to keep a good reference on my resume.

BUT, I would make an appointment with HR first to see if they KNOW what's up. They get feed crap daily from dept. heads. Make sure everyone is in the loop. Deal with HR, they made the rules, they can break em.

Think it through before you let a lawyer walk off with your money.

If the meet with HR doesn't work, start with the letters. Try to resolve it with documents, no phone calls. When they start getting certified letters, they will look the problem over very carefully. They can ruin your credit and become a bad referral.

I wish you well, but don't burn a bridge, they never get repaired until the bastards die off.

Thieves are not a good reference. Be it through incompetence or malice, his previous employer appears to be thieves based on this thread.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:56:35 PM EDT
I wouldn't just pay the $1000, particularly if the verbiage in the contract referred to a "reimbursement" for training costs. You really need to talk with a lawyer. Some lawyers will give you a free first consultation. I wouldn't just take the suggestion from some guy on the internet who's not seen the contract and has no idea what the contract says and pay the money back.

I also think the advice to talk with someone in the agency, in person, and have them explain to you why you owe them anything would be prudent.

If your agency didn't incur any training expenses, they have no legal claim that you should pay them for expenses that they didn't incur, no matter what you signed.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 4:00:24 PM EDT

I got hired on at a job 1 year and 10 months ago, had to sign a contract saying i would pay them around $2000 for the academy that people get sent to and other training, if i quit within the 1st year and $1000 within the 2nd year. They did not pay for my academy, i paid myself thru but still they made me sign the one for the same amount as the guys they were having to send.


This is the key.. If you payed for it.. and can prove it came out of your pocket, then you are not liable to pay it back as they had NO money vested in the academy. So I hope you kept the receipts... if not.. then you gotta pay up.. you signed a contract!


Good luck buddy!
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 4:06:03 PM EDT
Why do people turn to an internet board about guns for advice on contract law?

Call on a lawyer.
Top Top