And no I'm not talking about Perscription drugs but the illegal ones. I started thinking about this after someone compared my dislike for illegal drugs to gun control. How could I want to keep marajuana banned and at the same time be fighting to keep my AR from getting banned. My logic for years has been to not mess with someone elses passion if its doing no harm....
Well enough said I'm really starting to re-look over my thoughts...

SO what are your feelings on Drugs? Ban them forever? Leagalize them? What?


JIM

Poll to come...

Prescription drugs are just as illegal for you to have, that is, without .gov permission and oversight.

And the major difference between drug control and gun control is that the war on drugs has bloomed into a hugely profitable full-time business for some law enforcement agences and private prisons.

Quoted: I started thinking about this after someone compared my dislike for illegal drugs to gun control. How could I want to keep marajuana banned and at the same time be fighting to keep my AR from getting banned.

Easy.

You don't have a constitutional right to smoke marijuana, but you do have a constitutional right to own a gun.

Next question.

I think marijuana should be a crop like any other.   The same rules that apply to tobacco should apply to marijuana.  

I think any drug that is manufactured or processes should have to go through FDA trials.  

I think all drugs should be legal, with some being licensed and some being over the counter.

I think all drugs not PRIMARILY medicinal (and I include marijuana in that list) should be taxed ala cigarettes and beer.

I think anyone who chooses to use drugs should be unable to turn around and sue for health problems related to their drug use.  

Quoted: How could I want to keep marajuana banned and at the same time be fighting to keep my AR from getting banned. JIM Poll to come...

Where in the Constitution does it say the right to get high shall not be infringed? Apples and oranges my friend.

If God don't grow it then don't do it.

Quoted: Where in the Constitution does it say the right to get high shall not be infringed? Apples and oranges my friend.

True.... I never thought of it that way......

JIM

I personally Have no use for drugs I think Drugs Just make people Stupid

Completely legal, with zero regulation and taxation.

Legalize, tax, and regulate herb.  Powdered substances are too dangerous and addictive and need to remain legal.  Hallucinogens are a huge grey area, because they can be beneficial, but dangerous as well.

There is no drug problem.

There is a people problem.

Drug addiction is a self correcting problem. The addict eventually dies.

Quoted: Completely legal, with zero regulation and taxation.

Could you explain your self.....

Quoted: Easy. You don't have a constitutional right to smoke marijuana, but you do have a constitutional right to own a gun. Next question.

There are some guns you can't own - just like there are some plants you can't own.  

Why?

There is absolutely no good reason marijuana should be illegal. It's prohibition is as rediculous as the prohibition against booze was.....ever more so.

Some will contend that marijuana is evil because of this or that, but personally, I have never been presented with any facts that even suggest that marijuana is anywhere near as dangerous as booze. It amounts to nothing more than lifestyle policing for reasons other than public safety, or anything logical for that matter.

How about we prioritize violent crimes over "lifestyle" crimes if there MUST be a "war on drugs" at all. Who would you rather see locked up....who would you rather your hard earned tax dollars go in to prosecuting A) A guy busted with a pound of pot or B) A guy who raped someones mother/wife/sister/girlfriend?

This is so fuckin' stupid, it insults and disrespects the civilian population and disgraces the efforts of law enforcement.

Quoted: I personally Have no use for drugs I think Drugs Just make people Stupid

No kidding just visit the DUh.

Quoted: Quoted: I personally Have no use for drugs I think Drugs Just make people Stupid No kidding just visit the DUh.

Dude, thats not the drugs talking.  Those people are just naturaly stupid.

I am against laws that protect people from themselves (children excluded).

I am for laws that protect people from other people.

Quoted: Easy. You don't have a constitutional right to smoke marijuana, but you do have a constitutional right to own a gun. Next question.

Do you have a constitutional right to wear pants? To shave? To sing in the shower? To eat pork?

What does the 9th Amendment mean?

Quoted: There is absolutely no good reason marijuana should be illegal. It's prohibition is as rediculous as the prohibition against booze was.....ever more so. Some will contend that marijuana is evil because of this or that, but personally, I have never been presented with any facts that even suggest that marijuana is anywhere near as dangerous as booze. It amounts to nothing more than lifestyle policing for reasons other than public safety, or anything logical for that matter. How about we prioritize violent crimes over "lifestyle" crimes if there MUST be a "war on drugs" at all. Who would you rather see locked up....who would you rather your hard earned tax dollars go in to prosecuting A) A guy busted with a pound of pot or B) A guy who raped someones mother/wife/sister/girlfriend? This is so fuckin' stupid, it insults and disrespects the civilian population and disgraces the efforts of law enforcement. I think marijuana should be a crop like any other. The same rules that apply to tobacco should apply to marijuana. Originally Posted By Dino I think any drug that is manufactured or processes should have to go through FDA trials. I think all drugs should be legal, with some being licensed and some being over the counter. I think all drugs not PRIMARILY medicinal (and I include marijuana in that list) should be taxed ala cigarettes and beer. I think anyone who chooses to use drugs should be unable to turn around and sue for health problems related to their drug use.

+1,

Quoted: Quoted: I started thinking about this after someone compared my dislike for illegal drugs to gun control. How could I want to keep marajuana banned and at the same time be fighting to keep my AR from getting banned. Easy. You don't have a constitutional right to smoke marijuana, but you do have a constitutional right to own a gun. Next question.

You don't have a Constitutional right to drink booze, but it's legal....and readily available....and EVERY year is responsible for the deaths equal to or greater than the TOTAL number of people killed in Vietnam.

Legalize everything for personal use, and have doctors dispense it - at prices that drug dealers simply cannot compete with.



This accomplishes several things
(1) removes the incentive for drug dealers, gangs, etc to sell drugs, and undermines the entier criminal insdustry
(2) removes the incentive for junkies to steal stuff to support their habit, because a doctor would give them a script.
(3) removes the "allure" of drug use, because now junkies are just considered patients who need to go to the doctor for medicine.

Even if the government prescribed free heroin and crack to everyone that wanted it, it would still be WAY cheaper than the "War on Drugs" - we could get enough free heroin out of Afghanistan to put every heroin dealer in the U.S. out of business.

Apply the same laws as apply to driking and being under the inlfluence of alcohol to ALL drugs.  no driving, working, etc. when you are high.  I don't give a rat's ass if you are blind drunk on vodka, or high on meth - the focus should be on how impaired you are (in driving, for example) not on what the substance is.

I really don't care what people do in the prvacy of their own homes.  Drink vodka, shoot up heroin - whatever, just don't drive when you're high.  If you cannot keep a job because you are a junkie, that's YOUR problem - more jobs and a better labor market for the rest of us.  Let people choose how to live their own lives as long as it doesn't adversely affect others' lives.


But - I'm not a hard-core "legalize all drugs" actvist or anything.  I'd have no problem legalizing all drugs, but the current laws don't REALLY bother me that much.  What bothers me is all the money we are flushing down the toilet on the unwinnable "War on Drugs" and the occasional incarceration of junkies just for repeated drug use (and the often inevitable theft that goes with it).

Regarding the legalization of pot, I just wanted to say...........er.......I forgot.

SUBSTANCE RELATED DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES ANNUALLY

Tobacco: estimate 400,000

Estimated 419,000 deaths in 1996, from CANCER FACTS AND FIGURES factsheet from American Cancer Society.

Also estimated 500,000 deaths in Europe. http://www.ash.org.uk/html/factsheets.php

Alcohol: estimate 110,000

110,640 in 1996 estimate from the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (total U.S. alcohol-related deaths have averaged between 103-111,000 per year since 1979).

Prescription drugs: estimate 100,000

106,000 estimate, from a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, April 1998. Excerpt from study::

A new analysis by researchers at the University of Toronto, who examined 39 studies, estimated that an average of 106,000 deaths at U.S. hospitals in 1994 were due to bad reactions to drugs. "Serious adverse drug reactions are frequent ... more so than generally recognized," the researchers said. "Fatal adverse drug reactions appear to be between the fourth and sixth leading cause of death."

Also, 100,000 estimate from: TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING? DOCTOR CHALLENGES DRUG MANUAL, published October 12, 1999, New York Times.  Author: Denise Grady.  Excerpt from story:

But the doses recommended in the P.D.R. may be too high for many people and may cause adverse reactions, ranging from dizziness and nausea all the way to death, according to an article published last month in the journal Postgraduate Medicine. He said his findings helped explain a study published last year by other researchers, who reported that drug reactions in hospitals were among the nation's leading causes of death, killing more than 100,000 Americans a year. The deaths that the team studied were not due to medication errors by doctors or patients; they occurred in people taking doses thought to be correct.

Suicide: estimate 30,000

30,903 total number of U.S. deaths by suicide in 1996, American
Association of Suicidology (AAS)

30,575 total number of U.S. deaths by suicide in 1998, (AAS)

Murder:  estimate 15,000

FBI 1999 Uniform Crime Report shows a downward trend in total annual murders, from 21,597 in 1995 to 15,533 in 1999.

Aspirin: new estimate 7,600

GI complications caused by NSAIDs lead to approximately 76,000 hospitalizations and 7,600 deaths annually -- a mortality rate comparable to that of asthma, cervical cancer or melanoma (skin cancer). References:

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention/National Center for Health Statistics (1,2) 1. Fries JF. NSAID Gastropathy:

The Second Most Deadly Rheumatic Disease? Epidemiology and Risk Appraisal. Journal of Rheumatology. 1991; 18 (suppl 28): 6.    2. Anderson RN et al.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention/National Center for Health Statistics Report of Final Mortality Statistics, 1995. Monthly Vital Statistics Report. 1997; 145 (11)(suppl 2).

Marijuana: estimate 0

No information about marijuana-related deaths exists on the Website of the National Institute of Drug Abuse.    

There is no known case of a physiologically-induced "marijuana fatality" in the medical record.

Medical Marijuana is "...one of the safest therapeutically- active substances known to man."

The Honorable Francis Young
Administrative Law Judge
Drug Enforcement Agency - 1989

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I started thinking about this after someone compared my dislike for illegal drugs to gun control. How could I want to keep marajuana banned and at the same time be fighting to keep my AR from getting banned. Easy. You don't have a constitutional right to smoke marijuana, but you do have a constitutional right to own a gun. Next question. You don't have a Constitutional right to drink booze, but it's legal....and readily available....and EVERY year is responsible for the deaths equal to or greater than the TOTAL number of people killed in Vietnam.

My argument is not that banning drugs is effective, morally right, morally wrong or otherwise.

However, you cannot claim that someone is a hypocrite because they believe in un-restricted ownership of firearms, and restirctions on narcotics or bans on Marijuana. You have a constitutional right to own a gun, you do not have a constitutional right to use, manufacture or possess narcotics.

Quoted: I am against laws that protect people from themselves (children excluded). I am for laws that protect people from other people.

+1

Well said...

The war on drugs is a failure. Drugs are cheaper now on an inflation based index then they were 20 years ago. If you legalize drugs there would be a lot of LE's out of a job. They would probably transfer them to the BATF. Legalize what you can grow and for anything else get a prescription.

Quoted: Quoted: Easy. You don't have a constitutional right to smoke marijuana, but you do have a constitutional right to own a gun. Next question. There are some guns you can't own - just like there are some plants you can't own.   Why?

Simple. The government has overstepped it's bounds on both issues and the people have been willing to sacrifice individual rights in the name of creating a safer society.

I disargee on the issue of guns for obvious reasons, and I am not really interested on the issue of drugs.

Quoted: SUBSTANCE RELATED DEATHS IN THE UNITED STATES ANNUALLY Tobacco: estimate 400,000 Estimated 419,000 deaths in 1996, from CANCER FACTS AND FIGURES factsheet from American Cancer Society. Also estimated 500,000 deaths in Europe. http://www.ash.org.uk/html/factsheets.php Alcohol: estimate 110,000 110,640 in 1996 estimate from the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (total U.S. alcohol-related deaths have averaged between 103-111,000 per year since 1979). Prescription drugs: estimate 100,000 106,000 estimate, from a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, April 1998. Excerpt from study:: A new analysis by researchers at the University of Toronto, who examined 39 studies, estimated that an average of 106,000 deaths at U.S. hospitals in 1994 were due to bad reactions to drugs. "Serious adverse drug reactions are frequent ... more so than generally recognized," the researchers said. "Fatal adverse drug reactions appear to be between the fourth and sixth leading cause of death." Also, 100,000 estimate from: TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING? DOCTOR CHALLENGES DRUG MANUAL, published October 12, 1999, New York Times.  Author: Denise Grady.  Excerpt from story: But the doses recommended in the P.D.R. may be too high for many people and may cause adverse reactions, ranging from dizziness and nausea all the way to death, according to an article published last month in the journal Postgraduate Medicine. He said his findings helped explain a study published last year by other researchers, who reported that drug reactions in hospitals were among the nation's leading causes of death, killing more than 100,000 Americans a year. The deaths that the team studied were not due to medication errors by doctors or patients; they occurred in people taking doses thought to be correct. Suicide: estimate 30,000 30,903 total number of U.S. deaths by suicide in 1996, American Association of Suicidology (AAS) 30,575 total number of U.S. deaths by suicide in 1998, (AAS) Murder:  estimate 15,000 FBI 1999 Uniform Crime Report shows a downward trend in total annual murders, from 21,597 in 1995 to 15,533 in 1999. Aspirin: new estimate 7,600 GI complications caused by NSAIDs lead to approximately 76,000 hospitalizations and 7,600 deaths annually -- a mortality rate comparable to that of asthma, cervical cancer or melanoma (skin cancer). References: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention/National Center for Health Statistics (1,2) 1. Fries JF. NSAID Gastropathy: The Second Most Deadly Rheumatic Disease? Epidemiology and Risk Appraisal. Journal of Rheumatology. 1991; 18 (suppl 28): 6.    2. Anderson RN et al. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention/National Center for Health Statistics Report of Final Mortality Statistics, 1995. Monthly Vital Statistics Report. 1997; 145 (11)(suppl 2). Marijuana: estimate 0 No information about marijuana-related deaths exists on the Website of the National Institute of Drug Abuse.     There is no known case of a physiologically-induced "marijuana fatality" in the medical record. Medical Marijuana is "...one of the safest therapeutically- active substances known to man." The Honorable Francis Young Administrative Law Judge Drug Enforcement Agency - 1989

Sheesh - when will people learn that FACTS have no place in these sorts of debates  




(although since you smoke marijuana couldn't some of the lung-cancer death be associated with it, and perhaps also some traffic accidents, since I imgaine marijuana use impairs judgment like alcohol use?  - either way, I'm sure those are small numbers)

Quoted: However, you cannot claim that someone is a hypocrite because they believe in un-restricted ownership of firearms, and restirctions on narcotics or bans on Marijuana.

Sure we can we all have the 1st amendment right to claim any god damn thing we want.

You have a constitutional right to own a gun, you do not have a constitutional right to use, manufacture or possess narcotics.

The constitution isnt what gives you your rights, it just lists some of them.

You dont have the right to keep and bear arms just because its in the constitution, you have it because its a god given right that every man has to self defense.

Without a doubt, pot should be legalized.  I'm even considering growing my own until the day it is.  Far too much money is wasted busting and imprisoning people for something as harmless as pot.


"See I think drugs have done some good things for us. If you don't think drugs have done good things for us then do me a favor. Go home tonight and take all of your records,tapes and all your CD's and burn them. Because, you know all those musicians who made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years? Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreal fucking high on drugs, man." -- Bill Hicks


"My final point about alchohol, about drugs, about Pornography...What business is it of your's what I do, read, buy, see or take into my body as long as I don't harm another human being whilst on this planet? And for those of you having a little moral dilemna on how to answer this, I'll answer for you. NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS Take that to the bank, cash it and take it on a vacation outta my fucking life. And stop bringing shotguns to UFO sightings, they might be here to pick me up and take me with 'em. "

- Bill Hicks

Legalize them all. Tax them, regulate them. As a former warrior (Vice Cop) I am tired of the "War on drugs". A pointless drain of money and manpower. I have come to refer to it as "The Vietnam war on drugs" Meaning, the warriors are willing to fight but the polititians and the people don't want to win. So fuck it. Give the people what they want.

Quoted: And no I'm not talking about Perscription drugs but the illegal ones. I started thinking about this after someone compared my dislike for illegal drugs to gun control. How could I want to keep marajuana banned and at the same time be fighting to keep my AR from getting banned. My logic for years has been to not mess with someone elses passion if its doing no harm.... Well enough said I'm really starting to re-look over my thoughts... SO what are your feelings on Drugs? Ban them forever? Leagalize them? What? JIM Poll to come...

All recreational drugs should be illegal. Period.

Unlike guns, 'getting high' is NOT a constitutional right....

And before you say 'hypocryte, do you drink booze/use tobacco?', the answer is NO, I do not use ANY addictive substance (If caffene affacted me, I wouldn't drink cafinated soda. However, although I rarely am exposed to it, I seem to be immune)...

Quoted: Quoted: I am against laws that protect people from themselves (children excluded). I am for laws that protect people from other people. +1 Well said...

In that case I guess I can count on your vote for king of America.  Things are going change around here.

Quoted: All recreational drugs should be illegal. Period. Unlike guns, 'getting high' is NOT a constitutional right....

So what exactly are you trying to argue?

That recreational drugs shouldnt be legal just because they arent constitutional rights?

So are you trying to say that everything that isnt a constitutional right should be illegal?

Or just that things that are recreational shouldnt be legal?

Horray, lets ban luxery items.

Quoted: Quoted: However, you cannot claim that someone is a hypocrite because they believe in un-restricted ownership of firearms, and restirctions on narcotics or bans on Marijuana. Sure we can we all have the 1st amendment right to claim any god damn thing we want.

True, you have a right to say anything you want. no matter how stupid. I see that you are excercising yours right now.

You have a constitutional right to own a gun, you do not have a constitutional right to use, manufacture or possess narcotics. The constitution isnt what gives you your rights, it just lists some of them. You dont have the right to keep and bear arms just because its in the constitution, you have it because its a god given right that every man has to self defense.

I agree, but that is not the context of the statement. The inital post asked how someone can believe in unrestricted firearms ownership, and support restrictions on drugs. The answer is quite simple, if you can maintain the context of the question. I have my doubts in your case.

Quoted: Quoted: All recreational drugs should be illegal. Period. Unlike guns, 'getting high' is NOT a constitutional right.... So what exactly are you trying to argue? That recreational drugs shouldnt be legal just because they arent constitutional rights? So are you trying to say that everything that isnt a constitutional right should be illegal? Or just that things that are recreational shouldnt be legal? Horray, lets ban luxery items.

I think that his point is that if it is not a constitutionally protected right, then it is open to regulation by the government.

Just legalize it already, people are gonna get high no matter what.

Quoted:
I am against laws that protect people from themselves (children excluded).

I am for laws that protect people from other people.


+1

Well said...

One issue is who owns your body?  .Gov or you?  Do you have the right to put whatever you want in your body as long as it does not infringe upon someone elses rights?  Do you have the right to end your own life?  Wear a seatbelt?  A helmet? Etc.

Sadly it will never happen thu theres to much money on both sides in keeping drugs illegal.

I know for a fact heroin, meth and crack should be illegal - look how they ruin lives.

Quoted: Quoted: I am against laws that protect people from themselves (children excluded). I am for laws that protect people from other people. +1 Well said... One issue is who owns your body?  .Gov or you?  Do you have the right to put whatever you want in your body as long as it does not infringe upon someone elses rights?  Do you have the right to end your own life?  Wear a seatbelt?  A helmet? Etc.

There should be no seatbelt or helmet laws, except for children.

There should be laws requiring manufacture's to install safety devices in cars, trucks, etc.

End your own life? It should be legal.  Have someone help you? No, that's murder.  Is it morally wrong to end your own life? Yes, nothing pisses God off more.

End your own life? It should be legal. Have someone help you? No, that's murder. Is it morally wrong to end your own life? Yes, nothing pisses God off more.


Agreed, throwing away a precious gift.

Unlike guns, 'getting high' is NOT a constitutional right....

Neither is the governments right to ban them.  The method for banning them has been the feds ability to tax, just like the mg ban 922(o). How can the government demand a tax and then refuse to accept it?

Are you for freedom or against it?

I support everyone’s right to be as stupid as they want.  Just as long as they keep their stupid actions from affecting others.

Vote Wedge1082 for King of America.

Totally legalize drugs.  Employers may still make it a firing offense to test positive for drug use.

Price will drop drastically due to its legality.  This will bring the supply way down.

Don't have to worry about cops on the take.  While we are at it, we get rid of departments on the take (seizure laws).  

Then, since drugs are legal, price is way down, druggies no longer have the need to commit burglaries, carjackings, hit old ladies in the head for their welfare check, etc.  Violent crime will be way down.  Crime costs on society will be way down.

Then we will see Darwin in action as hardcore druggies remove themselves from the gene pool.

Good riddance, we don't need them.

----
Edited in this afterthought:  The "war on drugs"?  Until I see the bankers, lawyers, etc, that launder drug money, I see no war on drugs.  It is a farce.

Quoted: I know for a fact heroin, meth and crack should be illegal - look how they ruin lives.

You know what really ruins them? Being forced into the black market to get their fix.  

Amen.

Chris

Quoted: Quoted: I know for a fact heroin, meth and crack should be illegal - look how they ruin lives. You know what really ruins them? Being forced into the black market to get their fix.

Quoted: Quoted: I know for a fact heroin, meth and crack should be illegal - look how they ruin lives. You know what really ruins them? Being forced into the black market to get their fix.

You know what ruins lives worse than that?

The Gov.

I believe that everything should be over the counter. The FDA should only recommend uses and certify purity of drugs.


Here are some stupid things about the current prescription drug system:

All prescriptions must be written by a doctor -
Are all prescriptions so complicated that a patient can't pick the right ones themselves? For instance, I have been taking Flonase, a nasal steroid, for allergy problems for over 5 years but every time I need a new prescription I must see a doctor. Why? It isn't addictive and it is very difficult to OD on it.  It is a maintenance item for me so why can't I just buy it over the counter instead of having to pay a doctor to get permission to use a drug that I need? It's like having to pay to get a precription for aspirin.

Some prescription drugs are safer than OTC drugs -
Primatene is OTC brochodilator that has been a cause for many deaths, yet the prescription counterpart Albuterol is much milder and safer. Why must access to Albuterol be so much more difficult? Another example is Claritin, it only recently became an OTC drug. Yet it is much safer then the preceding OTC drugs because it does not cause drowsiness.

I still think that it is important to have a doctor as a medical consultant, but is the patient's responsibility to take care of themselves. I think that reducing the current buearucracy would medical costs and make it easier to bring new drugs to market.

All drugs should be fully legalized, not "decriminalized." Legal means the absence of any governmet control.

Quoted: Legalize, tax, and regulate herb.

That type of decriminalization brings huge problems.  Grey & Black markets, diversion, underage sales.  Nobody like the BATF-E, but you're suggesting we create the BATF-EM

Complete total legalization is the only soulution that will result is less regulation/cops.