I did not even read all of this thread.....


The war on drugs is a waste of money and time....


If God made it, then it is fair game (legal).....Everything else needs to go throug the FDA, or be outlaw'd

Quoted: Prescription drugs are just as illegal for you to have, that is, without .gov permission and oversight. And the major difference between drug control and gun control is that the war on drugs has bloomed into a hugely profitable full-time business for some law enforcement agences and private prisons.

Your question was "Where do I stand?"...

answer: As close to the guy who has some as I can when it comes to MJ...the rest you can flush!!

Quoted: Then, since drugs are legal, price is way down, druggies no longer have the need to commit burglaries, carjackings, hit old ladies in the head for their welfare check, etc.  Violent crime will be way down.  Crime costs on society will be way down.

BS.  If a pound of crack cost a penny the crack heads would still resort to crime to get their pennies.

Quoted: Legalize everything for personal use, and have doctors dispense it - at prices that drug dealers simply cannot compete with. This accomplishes several things (1) removes the incentive for drug dealers, gangs, etc to sell drugs, and undermines the entier criminal insdustry (2) removes the incentive for junkies to steal stuff to support their habit, because a doctor would give them a script. (3) removes the "allure" of drug use, because now junkies are just considered patients who need to go to the doctor for medicine.

+1

The cost of enforcement and locking people up for this comes right out of my pocket.  The first thing they do when they get out of jail is steal my car stereo to buy more drugs.  Lets not even mention the search and seizure laws and asset forfietures.  If you add up all those costs, that is money that can be used for roads and schools and fighting terrorism.  

The tax on the drugs should be used to scrape the losers out of the gutter so I don't have to step over them and get my shoes dirty.  

just clairifying here.

so coca leaves would be legal, but processed cocaine would not.

correct?

Chris

Quoted: I did not even read all of this thread..... The war on drugs is a waste of money and time.... If God made it, then it is fair game (legal).....Everything else needs to go throug the FDA, or be outlaw'd

Ya know what?

I used to do drugs.  No mainlining, but I did cocaine (not crack), some uppers, some downers, and quite a bit of pot smoking.

Here ya go:

I had a great time.

A really good time.

How unpopular this must be to many posters, but, I was ok.

Marijuana should be legalized. Stupid that it isn't. No one gets in fight when they are under the influence, or robs people to get marijuana money, or rapes anyone because marijuana made them lose control.

I think we should tax the hell out of it and make some bucks on it.

P.S. I don't do illegal drugs anymore, as getting a job is difficult without passing the piss test...

I do drink though. Now booze is a nasty drug. It messes up your liver, brain and people get in fights, lose control etc.

Damn, am I channelling Bill Hicks? (R.I.P.)

I think we should legalize drugs like marijuana and cocaine, but regulate and tax them like alchohol and tabcaco. Say you put a 21 age on the drugs.  The government would make huge amounts of money from tax revenue, possibly allowing the gov't to cut out other taxes. American farmers would have something else to farm, and crooked drug dealers would be a thing of the past because it would be cheaper for people to go down to the store and buy what they wanted.  Alot of the drug related crime would go down because people wouldn't be forced to steal and rob to get money to pay for expensive illegal drugs. And the fat cat drug lords in Columbia and Mexico would be out of a job. If someone wants to sit around and be a druggy, that's their problem. At least if we made drugs legal the money would stay in the US and in our economy, not make a billionare out of some Columbian. I mean face it, people are going to use drugs whatever we do, the war on drugs is an expensive and unwinnable battle.

Back in the day I prefered pot over alcohol. I would rather be surrounded by pot heads than drunks any day.

Quoted: I know for a fact heroin, meth and crack should be illegal - look how they ruin lives.

I have seen what booze can do, and that is legal.  

The drug laws are not stopping anybody from getting drugs.  Any crack head with $20 is going get high.  The only question is how much is it going to cost the tax payers.  We all know what happened with prohibition, and what a big success that was.  It created crime organizations that still exist today.  

Banning drugs does not stop anybody from doing them.  This is especially true for teens.  In fact, it was easier to get drugs in school than beer.  

Quoted: No one gets in fight when they are under the influence, or robs people to get marijuana money, or rapes anyone because marijuana made them lose control.

The illusion of the peace loving pot head is false.  Marijuana, like alcohol, results in decreased inhibitions.  In some people, that results in violently acting out.  In Laguna Beach Ca a couple years back a pot head robbed a head shop to get a new bong and ended up in a shootout with the police. In my patrol area we have a lot of stabbings by day laborers. Their blood work usually tests positive for THC.  There is not necessarily a cause and effect relationship there. But to claim pot makes everyone peacefull is false.

Quoted: Quoted: I know for a fact heroin, meth and crack should be illegal - look how they ruin lives. I have seen what booze can do, and that is legal.   The drug laws are not stopping anybody from getting drugs.  Any crack head with $20 is going get high.  The only question is how much is it going to cost the tax payers.  We all know what happened with prohibition, and what a big success that was.  It created crime organizations that still exist today.   Banning drugs does not stop anybody from doing them.  This is especially true for teens.  In fact, it was easier to get drugs in school than beer.

They did a study here in Salem a few years ago about the ability to find Mexican "Black Tar".  The answer was, ask a highschooler.

We can't even keep drugs out of PRISONS (ONE place you'de THINK we'd have some success).

Legalize 'em all and squash the dickheads that can't handle their highs (Just as we do with beer).

Quoted: Quoted: No one gets in fight when they are under the influence, or robs people to get marijuana money, or rapes anyone because marijuana made them lose control. The illusion of the peace loving pot head is false.  Marijuana, like alcohol, results in decreased inhibitions.  In some people, that results in violently acting out.  In Laguna Beach Ca a couple years back a pot head robbed a head shop to get a new bong and ended up in a shootout with the police. In my patrol area we have a lot of stabbings by day laborers. Their blood work usually tests positive for THC.  There is not necessarily a cause and effect relationship there. But to claim pot makes everyone peacefull is false.

Ok, so maybe it was a generalization, but, tell me who gets in more fights. People on booze or people under the influence of marijuana? Come on, I'd bet it's 99% to 1%.

Quoted: Back in the day I prefered pot over alcohol. I would rather be surrounded by pot heads than drunks any day.

No wonder I always liked you.

Quoted: We can't even keep drugs out of PRISONS (ONE place you'de THINK we'd have some success).

If that doesn't illustrate how the War on Drug is lost, I don't know what does.  

Sorry,I only read the question and this has probably benn brought up but how can you compare gun ownership to smoking pot?Guns are constitutionally protected,while drugs are not(I think,correct me if i'm wrong).But I think we should legalize and tax so drug lords lose profit.

Freedom of choice........

If you wish to get screwed up on "XYZ" drug go and do it!

BUT.......

Allow companies to still have drug policies the same way they have alcohol policies.

Want to smoke, shoot, or snort?
Start your own business because that is the only way you will get a good job.

The drug war is a joke.

Proof that making drugs legal would work?
When is the last time you saw or read about Budweiser doing a "hit" on Coors or Michelob???
Case closed!!!!

Prostitution should be legal also........

License it regulate it, and tax it like any other business.

RW3

Anyone who does drugs is stupid.  Period.  They deserve what they get.  I'm not sure if they should be legal or not.  Part of me thinks that darwin needs to pay these idiots a visit.

Drug users and/or apologists make me sick.

OUT.

i'd rather have pot be legal than alcohol.  I've never been assaulted by people on pot but i have been attacked by drunks and almost lost a few friends in bad car accidents to drunk drivers.

Other: Legalize everything, f--- more taxes!

There are more important things that the .gov could spend my money on than trying (and largely failing) to protect people from themselves.

Quoted: The illusion of the peace loving pot head is false.  Marijuana, like alcohol, results in decreased inhibitions.  In some people, that results in violently acting out.  In Laguna Beach Ca a couple years back a pot head robbed a head shop to get a new bong and ended up in a shootout with the police. In my patrol area we have a lot of stabbings by day laborers. Their blood work usually tests positive for THC.  There is not necessarily a cause and effect relationship there. But to claim pot makes everyone peacefull is false.

Once again proving that it is the individual who is responsible for the crimes and not the drugs.

It is people who have the potential for evil, not plants or sythesised drugs.

Lets punish the people who commit real crimes, not people who just want to get high.

Quoted: My argument is not that banning drugs is effective, morally right, morally wrong or otherwise. However, you cannot claim that someone is a hypocrite because they believe in un-restricted ownership of firearms, and restirctions on narcotics or bans on Marijuana. You have a constitutional right to own a gun, you do not have a constitutional right to use, manufacture or possess narcotics.

The Constitution lays out explicitly what the FedGov is allowed to do. Technically, in a Republic, the government is only allowed that power laid out for it in the Constitution that brings it into being.

That being said, where in the Constitution does it give the FedGov to criminalize drug usage or production?

Take your time. Article and Section will suffice.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I know for a fact heroin, meth and crack should be illegal - look how they ruin lives. You know what really ruins them? Being forced into the black market to get their fix.   You know what ruins lives worse than that? The Gov.

Big +1 on that.

Pretty much anything would be better then what we're doing now. Legalize it all, tax it, give it out for free, require prescriptions or treatment, whatever.

The comparison between drugs and guns isn't so much about constitutional rights as the effectiveness of prohibiting things. Ban alcohol and everyone will get it anyways, only they'll be supporting criminals to do so. We saw this during prohibition. Ban guns, and anyone who wants them will get them anyways, and again be supporting criminals. Ban drugs, and anyone who wants them will still get them, and yet again be supporting criminals. And in all cases, the police will get a ton of manpower and firepower in a futile attempt to stop the prohibited item, and the rights of honest citizens will be trampled in the process. Nothing that you were hoping to accomplish will happen, but you will create hordes of well-funded criminals and government thugs.

BTW, as far as drugs go, evidence shows that Alcohol and Tobacco are much worse in every way then the so-called hard drugs. Such as the following:

www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm

The number of drug deaths in the US in a typical year is as follows: Tobacco kills about 390,000. Alcohol kills about 80,000. Sidestream smoke from tobacco kills about 50,000. Cocaine kills about 2,200. Heroin kills about 2,000. Aspirin kills about 2,000. Marijuana kills 0. There has never been a recorded death due to marijuana at any time in  US history. All illegal drugs combined kill about 4,500 people per year, or about one percent of the  number killed by alcohol and tobacco. Tobacco kills more people each year than all of the people killed by all of the illegal drugs in the last century.

Quoted: Back in the day I STILL prefered pot over alcohol. I would rather be surrounded by pot heads than drunks any day.

all better!!!

Had too many cocaine addict patients that were a total waste of protoplasm and oxygen thieves to say that crap has any redeeming value for recreational use. However, I am a staunch supporter for the use of heroin for hospital hospice cases. Seen too many people die too hard to deny them something that may relieve their pain & suffering.

My 2¢,

wganz
¶

I'm going to get really stoned and think about this one.

Quoted: i'd rather have pot be legal than alcohol.  I've never been assaulted by people on pot but i have been attacked by drunks and almost lost a few friends in bad car accidents to drunk drivers.

I'm sure in many of those instances they were under the combined influence of alcohol and other things, like Rx meds, Pot, cocaine, ect.  I see the blood work from a few thousand DUI crashes a year and there is usually more than alcohol on board.

Leaglize them and treat em' like we do alcohol and smokes. Some tax, busted if you're driving under the influence but other then that what you do in the privicy of your own home is no ones business.

Quoted: Banning drugs does not stop anybody from doing them.

Actually it does stop a small law abiding segment of the population.  There are some drugs that I would try if they were legal. Marijuana is not one of them though.

Quoted: Legalize, tax, and regulate herb.  Powdered substances are too dangerous and addictive and need to remain legal.  Hallucinogens are a huge grey area, because they can be beneficial, but dangerous as well.

Guns can be beneficial, and dangerous as well.  Maybe we shoudl regulate those more strictly.  Or maybe centerfire rifles are the grey area, but rimfires should be taxed and regulated.

The world is full of ways to fuck up yourself and your family.  Drugs are one of those ways and drug PROHIBITION has only brought us a thriving prison industry, asset forfeiture, encroachments on our 4th ammendment rights, corrupt cops and judges so on and so forth.

As you said in your original post, LTCetme, if someone isn't hurting another through their drug use, why should we care?  At some point, you've got to treat adults as if they are adults and either allow them to enjoy their drugs, or suffer the consequences of their misuse.

-Nick Viejo.

Mace,
Your statistics are deceptive in that it presumes lung cancer deaths to be from smoking tobacco when they may actually be from smoking marijuana. Inhaling burning plant matter is bad for you, period.  Marijuana kills in the same manner as tobacco and alcohol. Lung cancer and car crashes.

I can see no justifiable reason to continue to the proabition of marijuana.

The entire gangsta culture and the crime that infests our cities is a result of the Harrison act.

It was a complete fauiler.  If the people that passed the act knew what the result would be, I doubt they would have even considered passing it.

It has been a complete failer since 1914, and has destroyed our cities and the lives of millions.

Legalize it all, and let those who wish to partake.  Hit 'em hard for any harm they do under the influence to anyone besides themselves.  Give another bunch of .gov bastards pink slips.  Maybe they can work for the drug sellers above the table, rather than under it.

It's time for one more prohibition: make the government swear off tax and forfeiture money.

Quoted: Mace, Your statistics are deceptive in that it presumes lung cancer deaths to be from smoking tobacco when they may actually be from smoking marijuana. Inhaling burning plant matter is bad for you, period.  Marijuana kills in the same manner as tobacco and alcohol. Lung cancer and car crashes.

You're out of your mind if you think for one second people who've smoked pot & people who drank booze cause the same, or ever close to the same amout of fatal car accidents. Also, people who smoke cigarettes, smoke MUCH more tobacco per day than the avaeage pot smoker smokes. Nobody said pot is health food, but your example is seriously flawed.

Quoted: Quoted: All recreational drugs should be illegal. Period. Unlike guns, 'getting high' is NOT a constitutional right.... I think that his point is that if it is not a constitutionally protected right, then it is open to regulation by the government.

Quoted: Sorry,I only read the question and this has probably benn brought up but how can you compare gun ownership to smoking pot?Guns are constitutionally protected,while drugs are not(I think,correct me if i'm wrong).But I think we should legalize and tax so drug lords lose profit.

So, to all three of you, do you have a constitutional right to wear pants? To shave? To sing in the shower? To eat pork? Does the government have the right to criminalize those things because they are not enumerated in the Constitution?

What does the 9th Amendment mean?

I knew that there were alot of people here that leaned toward legalization, but had no idea that was so heavily tilted in that direction.

As it looks, about 70% here seem to agree that at least SOME sort of legalization should be in the works.

And I agree. There is no doubt in my mind that pot should be legalized. On the harder drugs, I'm not competely sold, but lean towards the "Legalize it all" side.

Anyway, this poll is quite an eye opener.

I spent 3 years working undercover narcotics on a Fed/State task force and it was the worst 3 years of my life.  I should mention that I HATE UC work.  But from my standpoint, we were just spinning our wheels.

We weren't the Mayberry RFD Weed Patrol either.  I'm talking a 50+ member TF with DEA, CUSTOMS, State Troopers, State Bureau of Narc, ATF, Sherrif's Offices and Local PDs involved.

We took off some huge loads of dope.  Semi-trailers full.  Took down many of the major traffickers that were known to us.  Price of dope in our jurisdictions didn't budge.  Neither did the amount of dope in circulation.

Fighting the War on Drugs the way we currently do is like trying to empty out the Pacific Ocean....with a spoon.

Drugs are the major cause of gang violence.  Fights over turf.  Drugs contribute to a major amount of property crimes and violent crimes.  Addicts burglarize or rob in order to obtian funds to purchase narcotics.

I think the current situation with cannabis is just rediculous.  I can't tell you how much time I spent wandering through state and nat'l forrests, chopping the stuff down.  Hell, it even grows by the side of the road in places.

People under the influence of Marijuana are not near as impaired as your average drunk and they sure as hell aren't as aggressive.

I dont have hard and fast answers.

But some of my observations:
You are never going to stop illegal drugs from entering the country and you are never going to get people to stop taking them.

People that take home-brewed dope like Meth and Crack are suicides or expensive hospital stays waiting to happen.  When it does, Joe Average Taxpayer takes it in the pooper.

At the very least, drug-related offenses, especially possession, need to be reclassified and decriminalized.

Put an addict in prison and you create a two-fold problem.  He's now an addict WITH a felony record...so good luck getting him a job when he gets out.

Our prisons are full of people who have done the equivalent of getting real drunk.  So, how would you feel if the cops kicked down your door one night while you and the wife were having one cocktail too many while watching "Friends" in the privacy of your own home.  I suspect you'd be pretty pissed when you got hauled off to jail and then sent to State or Federal Prison.

You have every right to get falling down drunk in your own home.  Hell, lots of places that are public where you can get falling down drunk, so long as you aren't driving.  Yet ylcohol is the only substance what can kill you during withdrawl, causes severe long-term damage when abused, including birth-defects.  Abuse it for a long enough time, or take too much of it at once...and guess what, you're dead.  Hrm...this sounds a lot like cocaine to me.  Oh, wait.  Cocaine is illegal.  he
I have better things to do, like respond to the DRUNK guy that is kicking the crap out of his wife.

The constitution would protect gun ownership even if there were no second amendment, it's an extension of the right to life.

If drug use isn't the pursuit of happiness what is?

If you can grow it you should be able to, no regulation or restrictions among adults. If a drug is created in a lab then it should be regulated by FDA same as anything else.

I do believe we should continue to ban the importation of certain drugs from overseas, we should buy American wherever possible.

Quoted: I knew that there were alot of people here that leaned toward legalization, but had no idea that was so heavily tilted in that direction. As it looks, about 70% here seem to agree that at least SOME sort of legalization should be in the works. And I agree. There is no doubt in my mind that pot should be legalized. On the harder drugs, I'm not competely sold, but lean towards the "Legalize it all" side. Anyway, this poll is quite an eye opener.

Gotta agree with the surprise, BTW. All the other drug threads I've seen on here have many more "Ban it all! For the Children" types. Even the cops checking in seem to be at least partially in favor of legalization.

Quoted: I knew that there were alot of people here that leaned toward legalization, but had no idea that was so heavily tilted in that direction. As it looks, about 70% here seem to agree that at least SOME sort of legalization should be in the works. And I agree. There is no doubt in my mind that pot should be legalized. On the harder drugs, I'm not competely sold, but lean towards the "Legalize it all" side. Anyway, this poll is quite an eye opener.

Yeah, it's one of those questions that inspire some fairly emotional debate.

I guess I look at it this way.....The dims scream that posession of AW's are antecedant to anti-social behavior and the Rep's claim the same thing about drugs.  To ME (All knowing and brilliant that I am lol), it's the same argument.  That SOME people will abuse drugs and harm others while doing it argues for prohibition about as much as the fact that SOME OTHER people will use firearms to harm others.

If you're stupid enough to spend an evening getting hamered on screw-drivers and then go out and hurt someone because you're not responsible enough to make sure you have a ride home you should suffer the same penalties as someone who gets high and decides to make a run to the store for munchies and causes an accident.

Quoted: Mace, Your statistics are deceptive in that it presumes lung cancer deaths to be from smoking tobacco when they may actually be from smoking marijuana. Inhaling burning plant matter is bad for you, period.  Marijuana kills in the same manner as tobacco and alcohol. Lung cancer and car crashes.

Actually, in the other statistics I found, only about a quarter of the deaths attributed to Tobacco are lung cancer. The rest are coronary heart disease, chronic lung disease, stroke, other cancers, and the generic other diagnosis.

Either way, I'd have a hard time believing that more then a small percent of the lung cancer deaths attributed to Tobacco are actually Marijuana. Very few Marijuana smokers smoke nearly as much total in a day as Tobacco smokers do, and most of them smoke much less. I don't have any statistics on this, but I seriously doubt that many Marijuana smokers continue smoking for as long as Tobacco smokers do (ie maintaining multiple pack a day habits into their 40s and 50s).

LEGALIZE...

MJ, absinthe, other "light" drugs should be legal.

Cocaine, heroin, etc. - no.

Pot will be legalized nationally within 10 years.

Quoted: Pot will be legalized nationally within 10 years.

maybe medicinally, but I don't see it becoming legalized like booze is.  

GenX's attitude towards pot as a whole is pretty que sera.

As they move closer and closer towards controlling legislation as a demographic, you will see a heavier push towards legalization.

Wow..... These numbers are not what I expected....

The vast majority of us want to leaglize at least marajuana, and many of them want to make it all leagl....


JIM

the major difference between drug control and gun control is that the war on drugs has bloomed into a hugely profitable full-time business for some law enforcement agences and private prisons.

BINGO!

Quoted: People under the influence of Marijuana are not near as impaired as your average drunk and they sure as hell aren't as aggressive.

People under the influence of marijuana alone, may not be as impared as those under the influence of alcohol alone.  However using multiple drugs, at the same time, is more common. Regardless of what street drugs someone is using, you typically find alcohol, nicotine, caffiene, OTC, & Rx meds in their blood work too.

In my experiance the worst "drunk" drivers I have ever arrested were under the influence of nothing but Rx meds.  Muscle relaxers, anti-anxiety tranquilizers, and benzodiazepenes impare way worse than a .08% BAC. Unfortunatly the prozac princesses dont understand that "do not operate heavy machinery" sticker on the bottle really means dont drive.

There are only two workable solutions. Complete prohibition or complete legalization. Unfortunately society doesnt have the stomach for either.